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#283061 - 08/03/07 08:42 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Mac]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5959
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Mac:
How could an Airedale dog be afraid of bear poop when he never ever seen a bear? I believe its inherent in animals nature to recognize possible danger.

Mac also wrote....
I personally think more prospective mink trappers have been caught by mink lure than actual mink. Just my thoughts.

Fox and mink lures were the first two lures offered for sale by my Dad in 1924 and those same mink lures are still being sold today. These were lures developed and used by a master mink trapper in the big money mink trapping era. Dad made most of his living off trapping fox and mink in those times. Scores of trappers order Lenon mink lures year after year, many for 10...20...30...40...and more consecutive years. Like you say, being as respectful as possible, why would anyone order year after year if mink lures had no merit??? Dad figured that good mink lures used correctly would add a 30% increase to one's total harvest over using blind or baited sets. From my years of experience trapping mink I concur with that assertion. Ace

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#283103 - 08/03/07 09:52 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Mac]
Salthunter Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Idaho
 Quote:
[quote] [quote=Mac]Being as respectful as possible, how in the world could an animal or most animals I should say, be afraid of mink musk if they never encountered? Some animals are shy of their own shadow. It does not really seem logical to me.
Animals smell fear, we can too if we recognize it.
An example in humans;a new mailman came to my inlaws twice one day, was pleseant, My father-in-law recognized something was wrong, called the sherriff and post office. The fellow was an ATF agent' my fatherinlaw had purchased a gun in Spain, and the sent him the wrong gun it was ment to be a bust.

Ever see a cow or horse turn wild when down wind


 Quote:
I personally think more prospective mink trappers have been caught by mink lure than actual mink. There may be a few good commercial mink lures but very, very few in my opinion. Pretty hard to beat a fresh piece of fish or muskrat that the mink can SEE.
Just my thoughts.

Mac

The first part may be true,
Lure do work better in the north than in the south,.... something to do with snakes and holes

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#283113 - 08/03/07 10:03 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Salthunter]
PA skinner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1477
Loc: PA
I have a lot of respect for Asa's and Dave's opinions and I have no doubt that Ace's mink lure is good.

However, I also know that there are some very good minker's who will tell you the exact opposite, that mink musk is an attraction to mink and not a deterent.

When you catch a mink at a blind set, it sprays musk all over and ya have another one the next day...well, it leads me to believe that that second mink was not skeered. \:\)

So, I'll continue to let the animals tell me what they think on this subject, and so far they tell me that mink musk attracts mink.

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#283133 - 08/03/07 10:26 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Mac]
netrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 603
Loc: Elkhorn, Nebraska
Thank you for your responses Asa.

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#283173 - 08/03/07 11:11 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: netrapper]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
i am more open on my thoughts and respect ALL trappers on here .... but when i read certain things i have to question em ... if this is true of canines fearing mink musk for no apparent reason and they refuse sets just on this smell .... with no prior bad incidents ..... what is to say that mink wont do the same with the weasel scent that yall talk bout earlier ?? i REALLY believe an animal has to have a bad incident and assosiate these with a smell before they "realize" that they are connected .... this pretty much falls into the trap-wise critters associating certain things to danger .... this is a vast subject and i may just be stupid ... but ill throw it out there for everyone to read and reflect on .... but keep in mind ... how many times have you seen a yearling animal approach you with no fear ... until a warning sound of the mother has it scampering back ?? after that first encounter that animal will know (from its mother's warnings) that this "smell" is danger and will remember it from then on out ... unless it "learns" otherwise .... all bout conditioning if ya ask me .... and this includes all their senses ... just not smell ..... just my opinion \:\)
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#283199 - 08/03/07 11:43 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2758
Loc: New York
I can see you point of view Gary, but I can also see Asa's. I have been around animals all my life. And I can tell you that dog's are born to be interested in cat's. That Horses can smell danger, not sure if it's through experience like you mentioned gary.

Maybe young mink learn from their mothers that weasels are the enemy, kind like coyote and fox? Or are the just natural enimies and have the urge to fight?

It's all good stuff. Neither answer is right or wrong but I think are just one more peice of the puzzle.
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#283208 - 08/03/07 11:51 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Fire Fly Guy]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
are dogs born to be interested in cats ?? or when they are pups they are curious by the smell (scent) of the cat and when approaching the source ... the source runs and the chase instinct kicks in ... and the dog learns at a very early age that this is sumthin they can chase ?? and on that note ... how many times have ya been to a farm with an old tom cat and a dog that has learned its lesson many of times that this cat is not to be messed with ... and when it comes upon the smell of the cat the dog will drop its head and tuck its tail ??
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#283217 - 08/03/07 12:00 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2758
Loc: New York
 Originally Posted By: Gary
are dogs born to be interested in cats ?? or when they are pups they are curious by the smell (scent) of the cat and when approaching the source ... the source runs and the chase instinct kicks in ... and the dog learns at a very early age that this is sumthin they can chase ?? and on that note ... how many times have ya been to a farm with an old tom cat and a dog that has learned its lesson many of times that this cat is not to be messed with ... and when it comes upon the smell of the cat the dog will drop its head and tuck its tail ??


Can't argue that!


Edited by A.J. (08/03/07 12:02 PM)
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#283824 - 08/04/07 06:45 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Salthunter]
DLM Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 660
Loc: Maine
90% of my mink sets are blind sets.
IF I use bait ,its usually fresh -fresh water clams, some times I also use trout heads & guts that I keep from fishing. I take the clams and smash the shells and place in the freezer in plastic containers. I use a whole clam (shell and all). The shine of the shell helps attack them. Its better than just the clam meat, plus it keeps it from floating away. I place them in cracks in ledges or between rocks that funnel in the mink. I trap mountain streams that are nothing but rocky. I never use lure.

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#283872 - 08/04/07 07:59 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: DLM]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5959
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Many times over the years some top Western trappers have sent me some lures to test for them in my locality. Some of those lures were rattlesnake based lures which worked great for those trappers. Coyotes in my locality where there are no rattlesnakes generally avoided these scents like the plague even though they never smelled or saw a rattlesnake or any poisonous snake in this country. Coyotes definitely didn't want to get close to a hole emitting this odor so it seems to me that it is in their inherent nature or something in the make-up of the odor for them recognize potential danger.
Many trappers from specific areas always tell me that dirthole sets don't work well in those localities. Holes in the ground probably represent danger in areas with poisonous snakes and wasp nests made in holes in the ground. To a lesser extent but still noticible to me is the reluctance of fox and coyote in my area to stick their noses in holes emitting the odor of mink musk or weasel musk which are both abundant in this region. Again, I believe they many times inherently associate these animals with being fiesty and agressive and to be cautious of them. I have experimented with many canine lure formulas containing mink musk and/or weasel musk always with the same results, a certain percentage of canines appearing to be wary about stepping right up to the set. Then I would apply the same formula minus the mink or weasel musk and the wary actions would always cease. Whether this displayed caution is inherent in their nature, a learned response or a combination of both I don't know. I don't add either of those musks to any of my lures. Don't get me wrong here, I caught a truckload of canines with the lures containing mink or weasel musk, its just that I received too many near misses by canines trying to look or dig into the hole from the side or back appearing reluctant to square away directly in front of the hole. This also reminds me of a Samoyed I once had, cornered a woodchuck in a crevice in a rock pile and the woodchuck slashed the Samoyed on the nose. That dog would never go near a woodchuck or rockpile again. I used to laugh, everytime we drove past that rock pile the Samoyed would look the other way, she didn't even want to see that place again let alone visit it. Ace

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#283891 - 08/04/07 08:26 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
wiggler Offline
"Skunk Wrangler"

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1673
Loc: West, Mi
Thats funny Asa, i have a lab/newfie mix and we had a monster blue racer snake come across our yard. well the dog never played with a big snake before, so he went over and started to sniff the snake and it grabbed hold of his nose till the blood poured out. that snake went into a hole, and to this day that dog wont stick his head anywhere near a hole that has snake smell near it. i did laugh my but off he got beat bye a snake, and he weights 140 lbs.
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#283895 - 08/04/07 08:37 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
I have been staying out of the mink thread for the most part because I just do not trap many mink. However I spent much of my life raising them and have seen them interact. Some ranch mink are very aggressive and will take on ANYTHING, some are a bit more passive by mink standards, but still have a weasel's bad attitude. Oddly enough, the darker color mink, or those closer to the "wild" coloration, tended to be the more aggressive, while the white mink, or "pearls" were a bit easier to get along with. I always assumed this had to do with the breeding out of certain things while trying to achieve the pelt color.

I will qualify this by saying those responding to this thread have tons more trapped mink under thier belt than I. However I have probably observed more live mink (ranch mink) than many people, not just in pens, but also many times while they are running loose and interacting with dogs, other mink, etc. We had some people let a whole lot of them loose one time, and it was just a flat out free for all mink fight, and was pretty nasty. The A/R types that do this do not do the ranch animals a favor at all.

I have just found them to not be afraid of much of anything. I tend to think that mink musk improves a set as I have trapped a few, and have found repeat catches to be normal. Maybe that speaks to the location, however it also speaks to the fact that mink musk does not act as a repellant.

I also believe that mink/weasel glands are an improvement to a canine bait or set. I do not have much access to weasel glands but would consider them to be an improvement to any set, lure, or bait.
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#283913 - 08/04/07 08:57 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
Furman Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 14
Loc: North Central Iowa
I havenít seen where canines are spooked from mink glands actually I have had good luck with them.

When I was growing up our family had a mixed dog had had a run in with a woodchuck one day and had his butt kick buy it from that day on he hated chucks with a passion. His one goal in life after that was kill them. No different than training a coon hound and having the dog get into a fight with a coon and it turns them on to hunting them.

On mink glands and trapping mink itís my experience that fresh fish beats lure hands down. Now on the weasel glands thatís something that I will have to give a try thins coming fall.

I think that everyone has there now point of view on how thing work and if they work you and donít for others so what, itís how things work in trapping. One thing that I watch for is when some one says that this lure or urine is junk and there total catch is 2 coon and an opossum. To really know about a lure you have to use more that a oz.
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#283961 - 08/04/07 10:06 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Furman]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
asa this is not an attack on you or anything of the sort ..... im just tryin to pick at ya mind and dig deeper into ya thoughts ..... but .... why in the world would such a bait work so well out west (where there are MANY more venomous snakes) and not work where you are located?? i would think it would have to be sumthin else at work there ..... i have noticed that sum lures and baits work better in different situations and how it is presented ... i have also watched footage of yotes killin and eatin rattlers .... ALSO ... one would think that unless a yote had a bad encounter with a venomous snake that they wouldnt feared of em .... AND ... how can they tell if the snake is a venomous snake and not a harmless one ??? ill also add that from what i have seen here .... snakes are a BIG food source for pups as well as adults ... as far as ya dog.... CONDITIONING .... what ive been tryin to push here for awhile .... again ... please dont take this in a wrong manner ... im just tryin to throw out things and learn .... thanx for ya time .... Gary
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#283989 - 08/04/07 10:48 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5959
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
I understand what your saying Gary and I don't have any affirmative answers to your questions, I can only guess at the reasons for the outcome of my testing and experiences. When a topic like this is thrown out it sometimes starts to unravel the mystery and put a new perspective on things. I've learned as much as I have offered in my years on this forum. Ace

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#283999 - 08/04/07 11:02 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
well dang .... figured id get more out of ya than that .... lol ... i know what ya mean ....all we can do is take educated guesses as what is goin on in their minds .... thats why i love this forum so much ... get a buncha minds together and can come up with ALOT of insight and GUESSES ..... sift thru them all and figure out what may best fit the needs on a particular trapline .... thanx again
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#284336 - 08/04/07 08:36 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary]
Computer Hater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Ohio
Interesting thread. Read a little bit of it before I went to Goshen.

I'll offer my 2 cents.

Most mink will not shy from mink musk that has been let loose by a captured mink. Seen it too many times on my line to believe differently. On many occasions I will catch a mink 2 or 3 days in a row in a set that smells very minky. Females, young bucks, big bucks. Doesn't seem to matter. I think they are curious as to what happened and have to investigate.

But, I'll top that. Eric Space uses snares only on his New Jersey mink line. Those mink stir up quite a mess and you can smell the sets a good ways off. The number of repeat catches he gets in the same sets are quite high. 10 to 15 at times over a 3 or 4 week period. Unless those mink have severe allergies they can smell the musk.

I don't use lure much. Occasionally someone gives me a bottle to try and I will experiment with so so results. If I'm making pockets I'll bait with muskrat, fish, or mink carcasses. I will also take the fresh glands and use them on occasion at a pocket set.

I definitely agree that weasel is very attractive to mink. I don't catch many weasels but when I do I usually catch a mink in the same spot.

I've been trapping mink hard for close to 20 years now and I see a lot of thoughts and theories in books etc. I've found some to be true and others not so true at least on my lines. Thought I would offer this counter opinion to Asa.

Asa I would appreciate if you would respond, especially to the numbers that Eric space takes in his sets. I've ridden with Eric and he knows his stuff.
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Member NTA

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#284370 - 08/04/07 09:03 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Computer Hater]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5959
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Computer Hater writes...
Asa I would appreciate if you would respond, especially to the numbers that Eric space takes in his sets. I've ridden with Eric and he knows his stuff.

With all due respect, being that I don't know you or Eric I would have to ask not how many mink one caught or how many years they trapped but how many more mink they might have taken with the same number of traps, sets and time expended had they used lesser amounts of mink musk at the sets. In all honesty did Eric ever do any testing of varying amounts of musk???? Ace


Edited by Asa Lenon (08/04/07 09:04 PM)

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#284406 - 08/04/07 09:50 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
Computer Hater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Ohio
Eric and his family used to raise mink. He has a lot of knowledge and thoughts on mink habits and mink musk. I don't know if he ever did any testing. I'll ask him at the OSTA convention in Sept.

I will add this. Eric does most of his mink trapping in Feb. and March when the rut is on. I would imagine that because of the rut, at least in Eric's case, that the mink are more attracted to the scent of others. But, with that said I can defer back to my own line which is ran in early November until anywhere from mid December to mid January. I have similar results.

You ask how many more mink might I take if less mink musk was used at the my sets. THAT IS MY POINT. (caps. for emphasis) I have no control over how much mink smell is left at the sets by the preceding captured mink. I don't use mink lure except occasionally as I stated above. I have other sets up and down the creeks but a lot of the mink continue to get caught in the set that the previous mink got caught in. That tells me that even if they are somewhat afraid their curiousity overrides that fear in a lot of cases and causes them to investigate what happened and then they get caught. Hey, maybe it is like what we humans do when there is a fire or accident. We just have to look.

With all of that said, I'll offer a little background since you don't know Eric or myself. Eric makes the Qwikdrop snares and has a couple good videos out about mink snaring. He snares 125 to 150 mink or so every year in New Jersey. Me, I'm a nobody from Ohio that catches some mink on occasion occasionally.
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Randy
Member NTA

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#284433 - 08/04/07 10:30 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: minnow]
ADC
Unregistered


 Originally Posted By: minnow
Adc, Great topic! I dont use any mink lure, However I use the mink I catch for bait & allways cut the glands open on them when I use them. Sometimes Just use the fresh glands in my pocket sets. They have a place on my trapline

Have you got all your traps ready for opening day?

Minnow


I haven't even gotten started getting my traps and snares ready, but as soon as it cools off I will. Hope to meet you at the ITA in Sept.
~ADC~

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