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#266624 - 07/19/07 09:40 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ZekeMan]
Billfrank Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1750
Loc: TEXAS
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#266668 - 07/19/07 10:04 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: Billfrank]
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 Originally Posted By: Billfrank
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Trouble maker! \:D

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#266711 - 07/19/07 10:39 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ]
Billfrank Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1750
Loc: TEXAS
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#266837 - 07/20/07 06:32 AM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: Billfrank]
MChewk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Northern Illinois
SO...when it's all said and done...everything being equal...which IS more important FOR STRICTLY HOLDING THE ANIMAL'S PAW...strong springs and a trap with end frame swiveling OR a...how do we say it...a medium strength springed trap with its chain mounted from the center of the trap's base???

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#267053 - 07/20/07 12:01 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: MChewk]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11447
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
 Originally Posted By: MChewk
SO...when it's all said and done...everything being equal...which IS more important FOR STRICTLY HOLDING THE ANIMAL'S PAW...strong springs and a trap with end frame swiveling OR a...how do we say it...a medium strength springed trap with its chain mounted from the center of the trap's base???


high levers, for the leverage, is where the holding power comes from...

ALL OF THESE ARE NON MODIFIED SIDE SWIVELED #3 MONTANAS..all hte coyotes feet are on the end of the jaws.






look at this side toe catch, held in a unmodified #3 montana







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#267127 - 07/20/07 01:25 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: CharlesKS]
PA skinner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1477
Loc: PA
What I don't understand are some of the super strong coyote traps out there. I mean, some of them take three men a boy to set them. I guess that's ok, if all you have are coyotes, out in no man's land Montana somewhere, but here in the east, ya got sets that can catch fox, coon, coyotes, possums and dogs...ya got to comprimise somewhere.

For the average fox trapper here, that catches a coyote now and then, if you buy a trap with good jaws to begin with, instead of a duke or some such, I don't see where lamination is going to make that much difference.

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#267130 - 07/20/07 01:31 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: PA skinner]
MChewk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Northern Illinois
PA skinner, keep in those..."three men and a boy to set traps"..are not being fired off on the animals paw WITHOUT coming through a dirt covering....usually around here its semi-frozen or wet. They do slow down quite a bit. Give me a strong modified or custon trap any day.

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#267131 - 07/20/07 01:31 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: PA skinner]
Wcrose19 Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 1439
Loc: galesburg illinois
charlesKS, that is one funny lookin coyote in the 2nd pic

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#267135 - 07/20/07 01:34 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: Wcrose19]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11447
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
 Originally Posted By: Wcrose19
charlesKS, that is one funny lookin coyote in the 2nd pic


thast a fine speciman of a coyote...everyone wants to come to kansas and trap coyotes, there he is....

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#267137 - 07/20/07 01:36 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: MChewk]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11447
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
 Originally Posted By: MChewk
PAWITHOUT coming through a dirt covering....usually around here its semi-frozen or wet. They do slow down quite a bit. Give me a strong modified or custon trap any day.


lamination strips slows down the jaws...probably not a lot, but thats more surface area the jaws have to push through.

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#267232 - 07/20/07 03:24 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: CharlesKS]
DFronek Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2332
Loc: N.e.WI. 45
A couple observations,but before I do,just want to say #3 montanas are a good,well built trap that hold coyotes well.I've been using them the last 3 years,the first year unlaminated but baseplated,then all lammed the the other 2 years and non 4 coiled just stock springs.I've always liked the dogless low profile.I've also been running #3 Bridgers baseplated and I/O laminated with stock springs.What I've noticed with the montanas and dogless monty's,is alot of coyotes caught at the corner of the jaws,if you noticed in the first pic that Charles show,the foot is definately at the corner,but not opposite the chain,it's on the same side,no foot sliding.But the reason I believe alot are caught at the corner is because it's difficult to get your pan tension much above 2#,atleast I have.I prefer the foot in the center.I've noticed this corner catch on my center swiveled montanas and my monty's in the past.I really don't think the paw slides all that much in the montanas if at all.My other observation,is laminated traps IMO aren't really all that slower if at all as well,especially if there 4 coiled,but even with my 2 coiled montanas,I didn't see a difference on how high or low the foot was caught with lammed or unlammed montanas.On my Bridgers that are I/O laminated,my catches are usually about 90% pad catches,there stock 2 coil or music wire 2 coiled with pan tension sitting between 3.5#-4#.I think with the heavier pan tension the animals weight is committed to the trap,and slightly less speed if any with lams isn't going to make a difference,the animals is going to fall no matter what when the pan drops,with 2# of tension the animal is just getting it's weight in there,so you get more toe,or corner catches,or half pad catches.Even though the montanas and monty's have nice round rolled jaw edges,I've seen less paw damage with the lams,it's a given I guess with any trap,but if I were to run a trap unlaminated it would be the montana or the monty's.But given a choice between lams or no lams,I'd choose lams any day,whether 2 or 4 coiled.Like Slim has mentioned an unlaminated traps jaws flex causing that scissor or friction action against the foot.One benifit I've also reaped from lams on my traps is that I've been granted access to land that the landowner was hesitant to let me trap because of farm dogs,etc. and the fact that they remember images of torn up feetyears ago.After explaining what the mods do and showing my catches over the years to these landowners has opened more land for me.

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#267586 - 07/20/07 09:32 PM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: DFronek]
PA skinner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1477
Loc: PA
I hear ya, Mike, I just think some of those traps are a little extreme for normal fall trapping. We don't even get winter anymore until January most years, anyway. Lot of rain, mud and some light freezing, but not real winter.

I had one nice modified trap set, a #2 Monty, laminated, baseplate, #3 springs, caught about three reds in it, and it's hard on them, not cutting, but just too much power. I think if people were skinning out feet they would realize that no cutting doesn't equal no foot damage.
But, I'm thinking like a fox trapper, ya know, they're just big ugly wild dogs to me, the only reason guys here want to catch 'em is bragging rights.

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#267761 - 07/21/07 12:46 AM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: PA skinner]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
I am a red neck who probably suffers from A.D.D. which has resulted in me having a variety of traps in various states of modification. I have some laminated, some not, most baseplated, but always have a few that I have not gotten around to yet. This disorder I have, has given me the chance to see coyotes work various setups on a regular basis.

I have opinions on the physics of the whole dealio, but will keep it basic.

Having watched coyotes in my traps, I greatly prefer center swivel setups with baseplates, on my coyote and coon traps. It just flat out treats the animal better in my observation. I have caught a truck load of coyotes in factory side swiveled setups, and they treat the coyote OK, but I prefer to treat him better than OK.

I think laminates treat them even better, and I do not four coil my laminated units.

I do not get all these popped out jaws I am hearing about. Knock on wood this is not my experience at all, with any kind of traps Dukes or Montgomery. It intrigues me as to what the difference must be (spring strength? length of chain?). My next major investment will be in JC Conners in line springs for all my coyote traps. I can see great value in these watching coyotes work them.

I think when you start extending checks, all these things become even more important. A small difference in a 24 hour check state like Iowa, starts becoming a bigger difference in the way we treat our animals on a three day check like Wyoming.

I think swivelling is key to animal comfort and good treatment. I would rate it the most important, and the center swivel baseplate is just down right superior in all round swiveling, not matter what the coyote does. If he piles a bunch of trash into the center, the middle and baseplate swivel continue to treat him well, where a factory setup may start to bind and have issues.
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#267815 - 07/21/07 03:10 AM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: k9.]
MChewk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Northern Illinois
Amen Brother "Poopmeister"...I mean K9...lol
Good comments regarding extended check times and swivels...your comment about popped out jaws. the last popped jaw I had was in a #4 Monty hi lever. Coyote popped out the jaw out on a 24 inch chain...catch circle in the snow told everything...un modifed trap. In all fairness the jaw tips on the #4 montys were known to be a bit weak.

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#267825 - 07/21/07 05:54 AM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ]
Texas Wolfer Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Texas
#4 Montgomery

#4 Montgomery

#4 B&L Jump

#3 Round Jaw Victors

1.50 Victor Coil with Northwoods pan...
[/img]
#3 Low Lever Victor Coilspring


I will not set any trap thats not jaw laminated and modified in some sort. All traps that i own are offset above the size 1.75. Any size that is 4-coiled is offset.

As far as swiveling....off the end or near the end or center.
I found no great advantage. Off the end of the trap, good swiveling greatly depends on the type of swivel or J hook you use at the trap.

Chain length has alot to do with good swiveling and holding your catch too.
I will not use short chain on any of my coyote traps.
Have lost more coyotes in short chain setups than i care to talk about.

Just my opinions....




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#267882 - 07/21/07 08:32 AM Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: Texas Wolfer]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Youhave the coyotes behind you to put weight to your words Sam. I am thinking when I get all in line Conners type springs on my chains that chain length will be less of a factor for me. I know this is the way I need to go, just have not spent the money or time yet.

I have no problem with long chains on a big trap, but when talking a 1 75 of any make, I want a short chain.


Edited by k9. (07/21/07 08:35 AM)
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