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Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: DFronek] #263269
07/17/07 10:07 AM
07/17/07 10:07 AM

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 Originally Posted By: Blak coyote
Another point with end chain attachment is,the animal either has to roll or pass over the chain for the trap to swivel 360 degrees,which probably isn't a big deal,but then considere the swivel action itself,the j-hook is anchored in a corner and has to swivel against to walls basically at 90 degrees of eachother,which doesnt swivel as smooth as a center hook up where the swivel has a flat plane to spin on.Swivel binding can help magnify damage instead of decreasing.


OK you got me on that one. Very good point. Now how about an off-center hook up on the base plate with a D ring and the same swivel?

click here and scroll down for those off center plates (for those who may not of seen them)

~ADC~

Last edited by ADC; 07/17/07 10:26 AM. Reason: link added
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: offshoretrash] #263274
07/17/07 10:11 AM
07/17/07 10:11 AM

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 Originally Posted By: offshoretrash

No you don't have to have laminated traps to hold coons.


But if you do, will it hold thier foot from pulling out better than if you don't, assuming they didn't chew on it.

~ADC~

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263275
07/17/07 10:15 AM
07/17/07 10:15 AM
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Farmerville, La
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offshoretrash Offline
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On the traps I use, yes, it does hold their foot better, even if they chew on it. That is what I was talking about not discussing. lol

Oh the traps I use are the ones you hate too...1 1/2 sqaure jaw northwoods...LMAO


2006 and 2007 T-Man/Cathryn Corner Fantasy Football League Champion
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: offshoretrash] #263279
07/17/07 10:19 AM
07/17/07 10:19 AM

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 Originally Posted By: offshoretrash
On the traps I use, yes, it does hold their foot better, even if they chew on it.


Why? I mean, what is the reason it holds better? The surface aera on the trap jaws? It seems like that may work if they were like sand paper and not smooth but...

~ADC~

PS square jaws... That is a different pot to stir on another post.

Last edited by ADC; 07/17/07 10:21 AM.
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263283
07/17/07 10:23 AM
07/17/07 10:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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N.e.WI. 45
DFronek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ADC
[quote=Blak coyote] can you say honestly, a laminated trap holds the foot of the critters better than a non-laminated trap, in reguards to how hard it would be to pull thier foot out? \:\)

~ADC~


I would say it holds the same but leaving the foot in better condition.My modified inside and outside laminated #3 Bridgers have just the stock springs on,and have yet to have a pull out.Also as was mentioned before,and I've noticed this,pullouts can be a cause of the traps design.

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263290
07/17/07 10:27 AM
07/17/07 10:27 AM
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N.e.WI. 45
DFronek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ADC


OK you got me on that one. Very good point. Now how about an off-center hook up on the base plate with a D ring and the same swivel?

~ADC~


To me the off center hook up off the base of the trap operates pretty much as a centered swiveled,the swivel is still spin 360 unhindered on a flat plain in the swivel body as opposed to a corner.

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: DFronek] #263296
07/17/07 10:32 AM
07/17/07 10:32 AM

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 Originally Posted By: Blak coyote
I would say it holds the same but leaving the foot in better condition.


Come on say it! \:D "if your not selling the feet..." come on. LMBO!

~ADC~

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263298
07/17/07 10:35 AM
07/17/07 10:35 AM

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S
Like you say, it has ALOT to do with the traps design.


I'm talking comparing the same two traps, no matter the style or brand, laminated and center swiveled vs non-laminated off-center swiveled. In reguards to how easy it would be for a critter to pull its foot out. ;\)

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263340
07/17/07 11:29 AM
07/17/07 11:29 AM
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Farmerville, La
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offshoretrash Offline
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Ok ADC I will spill the beans...I have had coons chew the whole foot off below the jaws and I still held them. I was amazed at this. All I can say is try it. These traps have 1 1/2 music wire springs (they are very strong) with 1/4" lams.

Look I stumbled up on this by accident I was gonna use the traps for live market fox. Back then I could get more for greys alive than dead. I decided to use them for coon figure the lams couldn't hurt nothing.

If wasn't gonna drown coon this is the way I would go.


2006 and 2007 T-Man/Cathryn Corner Fantasy Football League Champion
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: offshoretrash] #263348
07/17/07 11:41 AM
07/17/07 11:41 AM

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 Originally Posted By: offshoretrash
Ok ADC I will spill the beans... and I still held them.


I got that! Believe me I understand, for you they hold coon better. BUT why? What makes them hold onto the foot better? The strong springs??? I just can't see how a wide smooth surface could grip as well as >< . Is it just because they can get to less foot to chew? If you were trying to grip some thing with pliers, would you want the jaws smooth?

Thanks for playing along, I think we are getting somewhere. \:D

~ADC~

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263362
07/17/07 11:54 AM
07/17/07 11:54 AM
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I believe its a combination of things...wide jaw surface...increases the actual surface area in contact with animals paw + strong spring strength...which KEEPS trap jaw surfaces in tighter contact with animals paw + jaw lock up...which using your example of MJ600(MJ500,Heimbrock Lightening, MB650, Jake and others)...allows jaws to stay in ideal position and not change with animals actions to get free.
In traps without offset jaws the mechanical advantage might change (lockup point) when compared to regular jaw traps..so in theory spring strength might be a more critical factor in unwanted releases...possibly.

Another important point not discussed here is...EACH ANIMAL is an individual. It's temperment in a trap is different. Some fight non-stop, some fight then lay down and wait...others fight then find...other ways out. We trappers might not ever find a perfect solution for ALL situations..but I believe trap mod.s are a step in the right direction.

Last edited by MChewk; 07/17/07 11:58 AM.
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263370
07/17/07 12:13 PM
07/17/07 12:13 PM
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Farmerville, La
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offshoretrash Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ADC
What makes them hold onto the foot better?


Don't know I am not a mechanical engineer.


2006 and 2007 T-Man/Cathryn Corner Fantasy Football League Champion
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: offshoretrash] #263376
07/17/07 12:18 PM
07/17/07 12:18 PM

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 Originally Posted By: offshoretrash
 Originally Posted By: ADC
What makes them hold onto the foot better?


Don't know I am not a mechanical engineer.


Me either if I was I wouldn't have to ask. \:\)

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263388
07/17/07 12:33 PM
07/17/07 12:33 PM
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Here is something for you ADC. I caught 126 coyotes, 52 bobcats, 9 redfox and several coons with no pull outs. I was using #3 reg. jaw montanas that were laminated, 4 coiled, shock springs and outside swiveled. What I learned is a few of the coyotes slid there foot from side to side but most didn't. If you were trapping for the live market You would want them center swiveled and laminated. The lamination gives you a bigger jaw spread plus a rounded surface. If the traps are 4 coiled they won't pull out of a trap because it's center swiveled and laminated. I also belive that traps that are laminated should also be 4 coiled to add strenght from making a wider jaw surface. Traps that are center swiveled will swivel alot better then end hook ups.


"Oh make no mistake, it’s not revenge I'm after—It’s a reckoning":

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: huntinglonewolf] #263389
07/17/07 12:39 PM
07/17/07 12:39 PM

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 Originally Posted By: huntinglonewolf
Here is something for you ADC. I caught 126 coyotes, 52 bobcats, 9 redfox and several coons with no pull outs.


I know you post that two or three times a week. \:D

NOW tell my why you couldn't of done the same thing with non-laminated traps.

~ADC~

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263399
07/17/07 12:47 PM
07/17/07 12:47 PM
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I'm sure I could have done the same thing with non-laminated traps. Comfort to the animals and non target animals are the main concern these days. You should no that better then anyone. Pull up to a place to ask permission to trap and show them the traps you use and explain about them and it's not hard to get permission to trap. This is 2007 not 1970.


"Oh make no mistake, it’s not revenge I'm after—It’s a reckoning":

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: ] #263408
07/17/07 01:00 PM
07/17/07 01:00 PM
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DFronek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ADC


Come on say it! \:D "if your not selling the feet..." come on. LMBO!

~ADC~


They don't buy toes either unless there attached to the critter. ;\)

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: huntinglonewolf] #263418
07/17/07 01:09 PM
07/17/07 01:09 PM
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Clearwater, KS
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j morris Offline
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OK Jayme, I am going to bite on this and not screw around anymore.

For most of you that know me, my traps are loaded out. For what reason; I can. Plus in my mind and experience, the more I can do for the strength and reliability of my equipment, the less money I spend in the long run. Not to mention, I don't have pictures like some do of bloody cut feet or popped jaws. I don't care what school you went to, more surface area = more resistance. I like inside/outside laminations or cast jaws in offset. All MB650's with shocksprings. Why? Because that's what I like and works for me. I already spend a mint on traps so spending a few more dollars per trap isn't going to hurt. Especially if it is less maintenance for me. Time is money.

As far as the center swivel or the offset swivel, I don't think it really matters. You get the same swiveling effect unlike off of the side of the trap with a j-hook. My traps all have 4 swivels plus a shockspring. I believe in my mind that the shockspring is one of the leading "lifesavers" of pullouts when it comes to toe catches. You can't convince me otherwise and won't. But this is a whole nuther subject.

I think of modified traps like this. You wouldn't buy a 4x4 pick up and not order the front drive shaft to go with it. You want everything possible on that truck to make it perform up to your expectations. Why do we modify truck boxes, ATV's, boats or anything else for trapping? To make them better and fit our needs. Traps shouldn't be any different.


"I stop putting catchy phrases in my signature because too many of you morons keep stealing them to put on your facebook pages....."


Jerry Morris
Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: DFronek] #263441
07/17/07 01:23 PM
07/17/07 01:23 PM
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Southwest Virginia, Adwolfe
AWH Offline
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I'm going to respond, but play nice. I'm new at this game...LOL

1st. Is an animals leg bone above the foot tapered to a degree that it gets bigger as you go up? When you put lams on the inside and outside, the inside one is going to hit the bone first due to the way the traps are made. They don't clamp from side to side they are coming up on an arc. So by using lams if the animal pulls it still has the jaw and upper lam putting pressure and the lower lam has even more now.
If this doesn't make sense let me know and I'll try to draw something to show what I'm talking about.

Re: MODIFIED TRAP QUESTION?!? [Re: j morris] #263457
07/17/07 01:29 PM
07/17/07 01:29 PM

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All good reasons to laminate traps! I agree totally with them! However, no one will say they hold better than non-laminated traps, using the same trap. Laminated vs. non-laminated.

Marty says "I'm sure I could have done the same thing with non-laminated traps."

So why can't everyone else?

Jerry I'm sure you could use them 650's stock and catch just as many coyotes.

Here's what I think... I think it for PR more than holding power.

I'm not saying it is bad. I use laminations where I may incidently catch a non-target. I don't want to hurt anyones pet. BUT that isn't what I was asking. My question was do they hold critters better than stock jaws in terms of pull outs. I still haven't heard anyone say, yes if it weren't for the laminations I'd lose lots of critters.


The reason for this post, was to show that perhaps all the mods are not ALWAYS necessary to prevent losing your catches, But it's more fun to approach it from this way. \:\)

~ADC~

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