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#2473840 - 02/27/11 07:32 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AKscott Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/07/07
Loc: north pole, AK
hahaha thats to funny sleepycreek using the dog to see how your snares work, those northern snares have the washer for a swivel also and they dont seem to work very good on the yotes but the 1 fox i got this year,the snare from him is still good as new so im not sure if i would use them or not the video ft put up the guy clamped the cable in the #9 pretty good then had about 1/2in of cable sticking out the back of the pigtail with the washer and nut and he said it was rare for the animal to pull it free of the #9 but the washer and nut are there for back up im not sure how well that would work on a wolf or gulo but they seem to work good for the smaller animals.
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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#2473841 - 02/27/11 07:32 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
Top Jimmy Offline
"Assistant Speling Zcar"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Alaska, USA
I will have to admit that I use a small coffee can for the smaller snares (lynx, coyote, fox) and I use a 5 gallon bucket for wolf/wolverine snares. I have a notch cut in the edge of both and just stick about a half inch in the slot to hold the end and then I can wrap quick around the can/bucket. Release the tension a bit and it springs right out of the slot and ready to go. I usually wrap the wire first, after making the pig tail, and do a bunch all at once. Then I attach my snares to the pigtailed wire in batch's.

-TJ
_________________________
Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.


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#2473882 - 02/27/11 07:47 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AKscott Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/07/07
Loc: north pole, AK
here is part of the site ft put up in snare connection's http://www.snarecraft.com/more9wire.html
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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#2473987 - 02/27/11 08:30 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: trapperbobs]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: trapperbobs
This thread really has my interest, because I just bought a bunch of supplies to build snares. I have been making some since last year starting with Rabbit and coyote stuff in 3/64ths and 1/16 1x19. The tear drop loop of 7x7 is something I don't care for and am surprised to hear several of you using it. It is very fast but takes such a big loop to cover the trail. Are you guys somehow loading 7x7 to get a rounder loop or just raise top of snare height to accomadate tear drop loop.


I hand form them to a pretty darn good circle. While they are still a little droopy, with the lock at around 11:00/1:00 they hold there shape pretty well. I use the same size loop as with 1x19 (and same height). The other thing I like is if I get a little bump or kink I can easily fix it in the 7x7 and it stays smooth as silk. Like everything else in life, it all boils down to a matter of preference...

I put a little bend at the lock so the wind doesn't close 'em up...


Connection between extension and swivel...

_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#2474279 - 02/27/11 10:30 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
trapperbobs Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/20/08
Loc: Alaska, USA
The thompson cable is 1x19 alternate lay improved plow steel I.P.S. which is probably what Wilson jr. is getting. Anybody know of a retail source for this wire rope.
Here is some pretty interesting reading although it doesn't answer a lot of questions it is a good read.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/hunting/trapping/modern_snares.pdf

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#2474896 - 02/28/11 11:29 AM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: fishermann222]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
All the snares I make have whammies on them. A ferrule or tubing works great. The ferrule can be used over and over. It is so handy for attaching your snare support wire. How many of you incorporate a whammy into your snare ?

The second thing that is great on wolf snares is a BAD (break away device) This helps with the snare lock to wire alignment. Many times making snares the lock may end up a little out of alignment. When you hang your snare the lock will always be in a straight line position to the wire for smooth slide action. A friend uses the BAD on wolf snares for that reason only, he even silver solders them to make sure a wolf is not going to break away.

Scotty for 1000 feet of 5/64th wire $59 is a very good price. That will make 90 snares that are 11 feet long, that is only 66 cents per snare for wire. Then 39 cents for a lock, 22 cents for two ferrules, that is $1.27 per snare. If you incorporate a BAD and Stinger spring that will bring the price up to about 2.75 per snare. The lock and stinger will be reusable.

Yes much cheaper to make you own wolf snares.
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

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#2474922 - 02/28/11 11:52 AM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AKscott Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/07/07
Loc: north pole, AK
yea i am going to order some stuff here pretty soon the snare shop seems to be the best place i priced it out again last night and i can have everything i need for about $150 shipped im still not sure on the locks i have only used the thompson lock and the micro lock i think i am going to make more pigtail snares and some long snares to see how i like them like i said i have never used them they look like more work to set up but if it puts the animal down faster thats good in my book i figure the snare stuff another dz or so 650-750s and an mb fleshing system should get me going pretty good next year.
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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#2475635 - 02/28/11 05:57 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
Grubstake Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/26/07
Loc: Lotw MN
I HIGHLY recommend shopping elsewhere! Bad Bad bad experience with Snare Shop. Rally Hess is a dealer as well as a wealth of snaring info and he is right here on Trapperman sometimes.

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#2475827 - 02/28/11 07:11 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AKscott Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/07/07
Loc: north pole, AK
i would prefer to use mtp but they dont have a very big selection i will check out rally hess does he have a web site.
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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#2475998 - 02/28/11 08:06 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
Grubstake Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/26/07
Loc: Lotw MN

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#2476099 - 02/28/11 08:37 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AKscott Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/07/07
Loc: north pole, AK
ok thanks grubstake
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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#2477100 - 03/01/11 12:21 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AK Fur Man Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/14/07
Loc: Wasilla, Alaska
Not sure what challenge "Grubstake" had with The Snare Shop, but surprises me, given the great service I've had from them the last three years. I also appreciate the fact they give me and my fellow AFTA members a 10% discount whenever we order. Adds up quick. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with them Grubstake, but think I'll stay with them.
_________________________
Life member AFTA, ATA, WTA, TTFHA, NTA, FTA, MNTA, NAFC, Endowment member NRA

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#2477334 - 03/01/11 03:32 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
Rally Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/14/09
Loc: Hill City,Mn.
Scotty,
Check your PM.

I think the difference in those that like the wire anchors compared to the total cable snares is much more in actual application and location that one being better than the other. If you are on the tundra, marsh, or the plains, the wire holders would be dead weight as you wouldn't have a way to use them effectively, nor will they work very well in small brush as there is no way to anchor them, without the hard fighters(wolf, coyote, hogs) chewing the small anchorings off.
I sell and use both styles of snares, but find the cable snare more versatile in application. On land I seldom use a snare that is less than 9' in length and often have to put an extention on them still. All my snares have an inline swivel, and quite often I use larger cable on the anchor end from the inline swivel down. This gives me the option of just replacing the capture loop portion of the snare when a catch is made,and reuse my locks and support collars. The inline swivel eliminates the twisting or cocking of the loop like mentioned above when you attempt to anchor and set the snare, but most important it puts a swivel up close to the animals head, that works until the animal is wrapped up tight and can no longer turn it's head and chew on the cable. I've also witnessed cases where the inline swivel worked as an alternative attracter to chew on, rather than the cable.I also have found that with a long snare I can anchor high and the animal will often "barber Pole" the cable around the anchor tree, and end up with it's front feet off the ground below that anchor point. If the anchor tree is off the trail so much the better as it helps preserve that location. The wind and blowing snow usually take care of the disturbance in the snow in short order. I also snare in cattails with drags and couldn't do that with a brush snare(wire holder). Many of the beaver ponds I snare on only have a couple natural "choke points", and the drag allows me to preserve these locations, and even a fox tangled in the cattails is easy to find.
Heres a couple examples of the inline snares and brush snares.

A 9', 3/32" 7x7,swiveled at 42" with 900 lb swivel,Reichert reverse bend washer lock and adjustable end anchor loop, loaded and shaped.My primary open water beaver snare.

A 4', 5/64" 7x7, 600 Lb inline swivel,BMI Slide Free lock,vinyl support collar, adjustable loop end, and loaded and shaped. I use it for otter and coon on kill poles.

A 9', 5/64" 7x7,swiveled at 36" with 900 lb swivel, vinyl support collar, BMI Slide Free lock, and adjustable loop end. My main land snare for fox and fisher.

A 30", 1/16" 7x7,swiveled at 15"with a Graws Bullet lock, adjustable loop end, BMI Miniloc and loaded and shaped. My rat and mink snare, and works pretty good for squirrels too.

These are my coyote snares. Both are 10' in length, have BMI Slide Free locks and a 58# kill spring, support collar, and adjustable end loop. I use the 3/32"(top) in the brush, and the 5/64"(bottom) out west in the open.


Brush snares from coyote to mink. Top two on #9 wire second from bottom on #11 wire and the smallest is made of 12.5 wire.






Edited by Rally (03/01/11 07:57 PM)
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#2477554 - 03/01/11 05:10 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
AKscott Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/07/07
Loc: north pole, AK
so lets say i put 5-6ft of #11 wire on my snare anchor it high and wrap a horse shoe around the tree next to the trail i am setting for loop support would this accomplish the same idea as an all cable snare high anchor point,enough wire to get off the trail to expire,and a swivel at the end of the pigtail.
_________________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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#2477557 - 03/01/11 05:11 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
northway Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/07
Loc: Tok, Alaska
I have NEVER had an issue with the snare shop either. They have been great to work with and turn around time is incredible as I have them make snares to my specifications. Great people to buy from IMO!

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#2477669 - 03/01/11 05:55 PM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
takotna Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Takotna AK
Had good dealings also but takes 2-3wks to get it, but that would be our great mail system here.LOL

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#2482582 - 03/04/11 02:11 AM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
garyalaska Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/17/08
Loc: Alaska
Those inline swivels look pretty slick anyone up here use them I see them in the snare shop catalog.
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#2486161 - 03/06/11 02:03 AM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
907trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/17/10
Loc: Wasilla, Ak / Central IL
the barrel swivels are great, and agree with Rally a 100 percent there are no one snare for all situations without some tweeking at differnt spots as far as the snares I sell most of are strickly cable and I account a lot of that to the higher cost of fixed wire snares or pig tailed snares, as for a lock that is fool proof, it does not exist in my opinon certain locks perform better in differnt area's (for instance areas with hore frost is not a good combonation with cam locks, freeze up) I personally don't like the surelocks cause of their size mainly, but they work well, I like the micro's or slim locks as they are small work well and are fast, just my 2 cents

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#2489595 - 03/08/11 05:00 AM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
Rally Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/14/09
Loc: Hill City,Mn.
907,
There is alot to take into consideration when talking about locks and their intended use and combination lock and cable type it is used on.In theory, it is all about displacement, or the actual amount of suface area a cable/lock combination puts on an animals body, and the amount of exerted force applied to that cable/lock combination as the animal tightens it, while it fights the snare. In theory the smaller the cable/lock combination, the less surface area put against the animals body, and equal amount of force being exerted by that animal, the smaller lock and cable combination should displace less and tighten more.That is not reality on a trapline, either in Ak or the lower 48.
The material the lock and cable are made of(actual hardness of steel), actual bearing surface between lock and cable, cable surface texture(rusted, smooth, painted, frosted, wet, dry),shape of locking surface(knurled face or round face of levering type locks), the amount of surface area the lock actually rests on the animals body, and where the locking hole is in relation to the cable when it actually tightens on the animal. All these aspects should be taken into consideration when using any combination to either kill or restrain the intended target animal.
Currently some states are requiring "cable Restaints" to restrain animals rather than kill them, and several are limited to one piece or perceived "relaxing" locks,with large O.D. diameter, Break away devices,required loop stops, deer stops, limit stops, and nonentaglement set locations in addition.
Until the advent of "Cable Restraints", most snare developement was done to make the snare more lethal, mainly to eliminate coyote chewouts and refusals from large cable, and to allow the use of smaller cable in more open areas and still be lethal. Guys like Kelly, Amberg, and Sennecker all added springs and locks to the mix with good results. The springs and longer snares with solid anchors, showed snareman how to use smaller cable to effectively kill coyotes. The advent of "Cable Restraints" allowed snareman in more populated areas, who didn't have the use of snares, to be able to have another tool to use, amongst hounds and domestics.
What I'm getting at is that not all cable/lock combos are created equal, nor intended to be used for all species, even if they fit.A marten lock is not a hog lock, nor is a lethal coyote snare a good idea politically in Madison or Boston, nor legal.
It is common for customers I talk to at conventions to ask me for a snare that will work for coon, fox,cats, coyote and beaver. Sure I make a snare that will work for all five, but nobody makes one that is perfect for all five. The same could be said of a customer asking about a coyote snare. My first qustion to them is where are you from. A Texas coyote is not the same animal as a Mn. coyote, nor coon.They both vary dramatically in physical size by location.
The same applies to locks/cable combos, and their intended use. Some cable/lock combos are just poor choices for the intended targets and flat out will do more damage than good to the animal and the customers opinion of the tool. I'm also sure I can find a crowd of furbuyers who will vouch for that.
The use of smaller and smaller locks and cable on snares has become popular the last few years. The selling point being less visability, particularly out in the open. Some having good results, some not so good in both chewouts and fur damage, particularly with soft bodied animals, like coon and beaver. The coyote guys with springs are doing well when used in conjunction with solid anchorings,long snares, and kill poles or entanglement.Short snares, small locks, and no entanglement are reporting chewouts and serious fur damage.There are reasons for both senerios.
When a lock/ cable combo are working correctly,we have set the snare the correct heighth and diameter to effect a solid neck catch, the animal can pull hard enough to tighten the snare, the lock LOCKS on the cable enough to restrict the arteries in the neck and the animal dies from Anoxia(SP) lack of oxygen to the brain.The sooner the arteries are collapsed the sooner this occurs.The addition of a spring or the animal being entangled (preferably with their front feet off the ground)both help and shorten the time it takes for the animal to succumb to the effect. If the snare or "Cable restraint" has an added limit stop inside the loop,a large surface area of the lock laying against the animals body(More displacement), larger cable(more displacement), overly large hole in the lock locking hole, soft steel in the lock with smooth cable(1x19-1x7), snare is so short and the animal too small to effect lock up of snare,swiveling action of the snare, or the animal is restrained in a small physical area, little to no mechanical camming action on the cable due to design of lock,location of the snare on the animals body other than the neck, and amount of body mass protecting arteries, all are dertermining factors as to the effect the snare will have on time to death or retraint results. Selecting the components to realize the effect you want is mostly determined by your choice of a lock/cable combination and knowing your target animal.I would also suggest having a snare that is well swiveled so that if a non target , larger species is caught, like a coyote in a fox snare, the snare is more likely to also restrain that catch.
I personally have found the inline swivels to be the most important componenet of my snares as they save the constant twisting and take a great deal of load off the cable and keep it from being seperated during the animal rolling and flipping(especially otter and beaver).The closer the swivel is to the animals head the better.
I also have found that not all locks lock on all cables, even if recomended for that size cable. The BMP tests showed the Camlocs(not checkered) to be the poorest lock tested on 1x19 cable, and resulted in high rates of ademia (SP) or waterheads. Which indicates the lock moved or relaxed, allowing some fluid movement but did not restrict the neck enough on a coyote to collapse the arteries to cause anoxia.
If your lock is locking solid after the animal has tightened the loop, it should not backup or relax, and should maintain all forward movement if you intend it to be used as a lethal snare. Too shart a snare and the animal can't get enough forward momentum to tighten the loop and should be used with entanglement or a kill pole.
To tell if your lock is locking solid, look at the cable you have removed from a caught animal. If the cable has several sharp kinks at the location where the lock was it can be from the animal makeing several hard runs while it was close to tight but not quite. That is fine, and usually indicates the lock was not relaxing, but if the kinks are inside the locks final resting point as you remove it from the animal, your lock isn't locking. If the cable also has visible gouging of the cable inside the loop from where it came to rest it is also relaxing. If the locking hole of your lock is elongated or pear shaped it is also an indicator your lock was scrubbing the cable and was also relaxing enough to cause the hole to scrub out or pear shape, unless you have reused it many times and is also a sign of excessive wear.
My point about small locks is that the smaller the physical size of a lock, the less mechanical advantage or camming action it will have on the cable. The smoother the exterior of cable,(1x19 or 1x7)the more camming action is important, to effect a solid lock up.The design of the lock and the angle the locking hole is in relation to the part of the lock that comes in contact with the animals body also determine the locking(camming) ability of the lock. If the locking hole is at a right angle to the animals body when it tightens, it makes it more difficult for the lock to close freely the closer it gets to the animals body(like a 90 degree bend lock). I've seen the best results from the reverse bend locks like the Thompson and BMI Slide Free types, which also keep the animals hair out of the locking holes, which can cause lock slippage due to hair filling the locking hole.I find their side profile, what an animal sees as they approach the set snare, to be minimul, and find their mechanical advantage and leverage to be beneficial. I've also had really good luck over the years with the Reichert reverse bend lock for open water beaver. The Reichert does little to no fur damage and most often the cable mark is the only visiable mark on the finnished hide with a space where the lock was.
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#2489901 - 03/08/11 10:12 AM Re: snares buy or build? [Re: AKscott]
alaska viking Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/07
Loc: juneau, alaska
Very informative! Thanks, Rally!
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