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Theories on the coyote invasion....... #244632
06/29/07 01:56 PM
06/29/07 01:56 PM
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Mo.
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Palerider Offline OP
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Mo.
We all know that the coyote has been in the west for many,many years.Also in insolated areas like the UP area of michigan and the northeast for many years also.But in the ohio valley,central states and the south east.......they've been steadly moving in there over the last 25 years or so.In my area in Missouri,coyotes first started making an apperance about the late 60's and got going full bore by the late 70's.

Now......what's caused this invasion ?? My thoughts are is that when a lot of the pressure started letting up in terms of predator control in the west,that's when the coyote started the west to east march.

Thoughts ???

Last edited by Palerider; 06/29/07 01:59 PM.
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Palerider] #244639
06/29/07 02:04 PM
06/29/07 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 287
bridgeton in.
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possumpacker Offline
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bridgeton in.
caught the first one in this area 1976. Had never heard of or saw one before that. That was bout the time the deer herd was startin to boom. Just figured they followed the food.


Hey vegetarians! my food poops on your food.
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Palerider] #244640
06/29/07 02:04 PM
06/29/07 02:04 PM
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Posts: 908
N. Dakota
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Slim Pedersen Offline
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N. Dakota
This whole thread could get real colorful before it is over with. lol

My personal theory---and it is only a guess at the best, is that the real extreme cold in the late 60's and again even colder period of the late 70's froze many large streams, that normally do not freeze over, and that included the Mississippi river too. That gave coyotes that were already expanding their ranges because of population increases due to less predator control activities, a bridge to expand across.


Proud to be a trapper and supporter of trapping organizations
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Slim Pedersen] #244645
06/29/07 02:07 PM
06/29/07 02:07 PM
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Posts: 2,161
NW Ohio
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cj's trapping Offline
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NW Ohio
Insurance companies, deer claims and pressure on the DNR

Well, at least that's what I hear alot around here...lol



Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: cj's trapping] #244648
06/29/07 02:09 PM
06/29/07 02:09 PM
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Northern Illinois
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MChewk Offline
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Yep..here too...throw in tree farmers/nurseries and landscapers bringing them in to eat mice rabbits and deer.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: MChewk] #244655
06/29/07 02:17 PM
06/29/07 02:17 PM

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So once they move in, will the fox ever rebound?

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244658
06/29/07 02:20 PM
06/29/07 02:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 719
Mo.
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Palerider Offline OP
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Mo.
I doubt it coonhangman.......they never have here in over 35 years.Small pockets here and there,but in general...very very few foxes here.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244660
06/29/07 02:24 PM
06/29/07 02:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 450
IA
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cottonfoot Offline
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IA
I sure hope so!! Miss stalking and trapping them.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: cottonfoot] #244672
06/29/07 02:37 PM
06/29/07 02:37 PM

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if the mange sets in on the yotes up there like it has down here your yote numbers will decline. you cant catch a yote down here that has much hair. i hope it keeps working on them. the fox and cat numbers based on sign is very good. IMO. less yote sign also in the same area.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244681
06/29/07 02:57 PM
06/29/07 02:57 PM
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Creek Texas
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Billfrank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Coon Hangman
So once they move in, will the fox ever rebound?


I myself have never seen a decrease in the fox population due to coyotes here where I live. They all live in peace and harmony. Just my observation in my 30 years of trapping. There are MANY people who will say the opposite thing and so be it ...I'm not one to usally get in a pee match over such things.


[Linked Image]
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Billfrank] #244684
06/29/07 03:03 PM
06/29/07 03:03 PM
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Creek Texas
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Billfrank Offline
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Creek Texas
"Now......what's caused this invasion ??"

Their like illegal aliens....they move because its the land of opportunity.


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Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Billfrank] #244695
06/29/07 03:18 PM
06/29/07 03:18 PM

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I caught my first one here back in 1988, Eastern Ohio.I think it would a combination of things on the invasion. Lack of trapping and hunting pressure and a abundant of food. It seemed like when they arrived here they were everywhere.Now it seems they are in pockets, but one thing for sure you don't see the rabbits like you used too and I can't remember the last time I seen a pheasant.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244709
06/29/07 03:53 PM
06/29/07 03:53 PM

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Mr. Frank i will have to agree with you on your assessment. i think what i see or have seen in regards to catches is i will normally pick up the yotes first in an area. once that particular bunch has been removed or diminished i start seeing a lot more fox and cat sign. i can only surmise this is due to the absence of the yote in the pecking order at that particular time and location. i have seen a decrease in the overall yote sign and catch as compared to about ten years ago. just my observation.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244730
06/29/07 04:14 PM
06/29/07 04:14 PM

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 Quote:
At the end of the world, the only two animals to survive: a coyote and Keith Richards.


ROFLMAO That thar is funny, don't care who you are.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244732
06/29/07 04:16 PM
06/29/07 04:16 PM

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Will still both have AIDS?

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244737
06/29/07 04:21 PM
06/29/07 04:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15
menard,texas
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JDB55 Offline
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menard,texas
Well here in my part of Texas they REALY started to move when compond 1080 was outlawed. I donot rember what year that was but every one in west Tx. kept it out. All it did then was keep them in check.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: MChewk] #244743
06/29/07 04:23 PM
06/29/07 04:23 PM
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Posts: 3,096
Derby, Vermont still alive
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nelacres Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MChewk
Yep..here too...throw in tree farmers/nurseries and landscapers bringing them in to eat mice rabbits and deer.


You wouldn't mean a certain Indiana trapper/ tree farmer would you.


Nelly
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: nelacres] #244746
06/29/07 04:26 PM
06/29/07 04:26 PM

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Ut Oh Nelly!

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: nelacres] #244750
06/29/07 04:31 PM
06/29/07 04:31 PM
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Central Texas
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In Central Texas, we never had coyotes until the late 1950's and early 1960's and I think it all started with the "Soil Bank" set aside program. The land began to come out of that program in the mid-1960's and that is when we started seeing coyotes. I had never seen one until 1964 and then they began to trinkle in. We had a lot of grey foxes back then and now the only place you see a fox is in town and rarely then. It seems to me that the foxes had to go into the towns to escape the coyotes.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244751
06/29/07 04:31 PM
06/29/07 04:31 PM
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Posts: 3,096
Derby, Vermont still alive
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nelacres Offline
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LOL


Nelly
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: nelacres] #244778
06/29/07 05:14 PM
06/29/07 05:14 PM
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Posts: 9,736
Northern Illinois
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MChewk Offline
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Northern Illinois
No Nelly...not what I was refering to...lol!

But twice in the same year...50 miles apart...I stop for a cup of coffee and I hear a few farmers talk about a flat bed truck that got pulled over by state police last month. The farmers go on to say that after investigation the truck is carrying 20 pairs of coyotes from Texas. When asked where they were going the driver of the truck says "a nursery about 20 miles up the road"????
Different diner two weeks later....Police stop a semi..the diner is in full view of the road where the truck is stopped. Police investigate and find 30 coyotes...destination a tract of land owned by a landscape outfit???

Three years later...trapping beaver for a very wealthy landowner who is involved with politics. She asks me if I heard anything about coyotes being released into our state???

Coincidence?

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: MChewk] #244791
06/29/07 05:39 PM
06/29/07 05:39 PM
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Creek Texas
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Creek Texas
Not sure why someone from Texas would be going thru Illinois to get to Caswell Co. N.C.

Before someone freaks out..This is a joke....its illegal to do this!LOL


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Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Billfrank] #244799
06/29/07 05:55 PM
06/29/07 05:55 PM
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Gulliver, Michigan
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Gulliver, Michigan
A very thought provoking subject to be sure. Coyotes were plentiful in Michigan's upper peninsula for over 50 years before anyone ever seen one in the lower peninsula. The two peninsulas are seperated by the straits of Mackinac which is frozen over every winter other than a swath kept open by ice cutters on the coast guard ships. Yet no coyotes, or any to speak of ventured across during all of that time even though they were pressured by droves of bounty trappers and packs of timber wolves. Whether they eventually crossed the straits of Mackinac or moved into the lower peninsula from the South I don't know. I suspect they moved in from the South but of course would have to have migrated from the West before they could have done so. Its a real mystery to me and I guess Slims theory is as good as any i've heard except for the coyotes not crossing the frozen over straits for so many years. Ace

Last edited by Asa Lenon; 06/29/07 06:33 PM.
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Asa Lenon] #244815
06/29/07 06:13 PM
06/29/07 06:13 PM

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Not to long ago I was talking with 2 good trappers one from TN and the other from KY. Both put blame on the live market for brining in mange to there area. They both thanked some tree farmer for introduding it from transporting coyotes from the west.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #244896
06/29/07 07:40 PM
06/29/07 07:40 PM

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When the settlers came here there were no coyotes in the east. Wolves were found through all the eastern part of the country but the only coyotes were the small ones of the western plains.

Then wolves were exterminated in practicaly all the east and most of the west too. Especially in the 1800s and through to 1960s there was extensive predator control on western coyotes and wolves by use of poison.

Then poison use stopped in the 1960s or so. Coyotes increased in numbers in the west and began to expand into the east where there was now no competition from wolves and no more poison to keep them down.

Some say the eastern coyote developed into a larger animal due to the early coyote migrants interbreeding with the few eastern wolves still remaining. Apparently when both wolf and coyote numbers are very low they will interbreed.

So the eastern coyote has filled the gap left by the eastern wolf.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: MChewk] #244909
06/29/07 07:56 PM
06/29/07 07:56 PM
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Posts: 1,904
Someplace Indiana
timrose Offline
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Someplace Indiana
 Originally Posted By: MChewk
No Nelly...not what I was refering to...lol!

But twice in the same year...50 miles apart...I stop for a cup of coffee and I hear a few farmers talk about a flat bed truck that got pulled over by state police last month. The farmers go on to say that after investigation the truck is carrying 20 pairs of coyotes from Texas. When asked where they were going the driver of the truck says "a nursery about 20 miles up the road"????
Different diner two weeks later....Police stop a semi..the diner is in full view of the road where the truck is stopped. Police investigate and find 30 coyotes...destination a tract of land owned by a landscape outfit???

Three years later...trapping beaver for a very wealthy landowner who is involved with politics. She asks me if I heard anything about coyotes being released into our state???

Coincidence?


Sounds like BS.....

There would be no need for a landscaper or tree farmer to pay $100 + per coyote to be released on his farm to take out mice.......

Anyone that would believe such a story needs to think about it for a while.

$100 x 20 coyotes being delivered up the road 20 miles....ummm okay

Thats $2,000 dollars from the tree farmer........can he write it off on taxes...nope...cause they would be illegally imported...
A tree farmer or landscaper isn't going to spend that kind of money for mouse or rabbit control with all the other sure fire options avaiable.....
like I said, its a story and very, very hard to believe
_________________________

Last edited by timrose; 06/29/07 08:03 PM.
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: timrose] #244930
06/29/07 08:10 PM
06/29/07 08:10 PM
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Northern Illinois
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MChewk Offline
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Northern Illinois
Maybe Tim...just what I heard...thats what the post suggested..."reasons for coyote invasion"....seems like alot of coincidence.

BillFrank no insinuation meant...just what I was told...by the way this happened in the early 90's.

At 3-7 hundred dollars for a tree Tim ...money problem?? Don't think so. Illegal?...of course but then so are alot of things that occur.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: MChewk] #245441
06/30/07 01:32 AM
06/30/07 01:32 AM
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Perrysville, Indiana
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Perrysville, Indiana
caught the first one in this area 1976. Had never heard of or saw one before that. That was bout the time the deer herd was startin to boom. Just figured they followed the food

I would have to agree with this.

I never saw a deer around here until 1970. Also, I never saw a coyote around here until 1971. Only I had no idea what it was I saw.

Caught a coyote in 1974 and learned very fast that they can and will destroy a trap and show you every weak part of that trap. And, they do not care if it hurts your feelings when they do it.

In the 60's, every Spring, Mrs. Meadows would come storming up to our place yelling about dogs chasing their sheep. She saw our dog with them, but it was not chasing the sheep. She always said they looked like German Shephards. Hummmmm, coyotes look somewhat like a German Shephard. Wonder if she was seeing coyotes?

How they came here, I have no idea. But it does seem that they got plentiful after the deer began to get thick. Perhaps they were here all along. The Wabash River is good size and some of the bottom land is grown over.

They could cross the Mississippi River by the bridges crossing it. Especially after the Interstate road system was completed. Those bridges would give them a good travle route. Plus, no one in his right mind would try to run one over while crossing a bridge that may be a mile long. Too good of a chance of driving off into the River.

Also, they could come down from up north, Minnesota, or Michigan with ease. Or even Canada.


Unless kids are brought into trapping; trapping dies of old age.
Remember; Rush Limbaugh is always right.
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Steven G Trosper] #245483
06/30/07 03:57 AM
06/30/07 03:57 AM
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Posts: 334
Bruce, Mississippi
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otterbtrapn Offline
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Bruce, Mississippi
I beleave they have had alot of help. Here in MS the first recorded release by fox hunters was in the 1930s 6 pair were release in central MS and there are a good number of recorded releases since. I also have heard the other stories but don't have any proof of these.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: otterbtrapn] #245500
06/30/07 05:51 AM
06/30/07 05:51 AM

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We have a bridge here called the Confederation Bridge. It is about 10 miles long that connects an island with the mainland. It is 2 lanes with about a 4 foot high solid concrete railing along the sides.

My uncle was driving across the bridge one night and spotted a coyote running ahead in the headlights. When the vehicle got too close to the coyote it panicked and went over the railing.

It is a loooong way down to the water - 361 feet to be exact.

http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/021.Confederation%20Bridge.small.JPG

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: ] #245602
06/30/07 09:32 AM
06/30/07 09:32 AM
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Posts: 3,408
Ohio
Minker Offline
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Ohio
i caught my first one in ohio in 1976 , had heard a few reports of others just before that time , didn't catch another until several years later then after that they just kept coming .

an old farmer told me 20 years or more ago that back in the late 20's and early 30's , there were several shot on his fathers farm in s.w ohio along the little miami river. i doubt anyone brought them in and released them back then .

slim's ideas on rivers frozen over hold alot of merit , they have some confirmed wolves in the northern lower penn. of michigan that got there that way they figure .

i read somewhere once that what were thought to have been wolves by the early settlers in the east , may very well have been coyotes , atleast in some areas .

i just wish we could get rid of all the flea bittin things , i'd much rather have the red fox population back once again we used to have .

mark


Fur Trapping ;
Its not about making Money, Its All about the Adventures you'll have on the Trapline .
Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Minker] #246030
06/30/07 08:03 PM
06/30/07 08:03 PM
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Posts: 1,140
Texas Hill Country
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Texas Hill Country
In our region:

the 7 year drought in the '50's & then the end of the drought
eradication of the screwworm in the '60's
the banning of strychnine and compound 1080 in the '70's
selling of tracts of land to retirees in the '80's
dropping rabies laced baits in the '90's and the continuation of it
current selling of land for recreational and hunting purposes.


Sit on your horse on top of a ridge, look out across the country and tell me there is no God.

Re: Theories on the coyote invasion....... [Re: Palerider] #247274
07/02/07 12:17 AM
07/02/07 12:17 AM

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The yotes are just ticked off because all of us white guys are invading from East of the big river. So they are invading back. lol

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