How do you feel about shocksprings?
#239586
06/24/07 09:07 PM
06/24/07 09:07 PM
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Wade Lacey
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Just curious what some of you think about having shock springs on your coyote traps. If you thinks its a must lets hear your reason why and if not lets hear that also. I have not caught very many coyotes yet but have got a afew with each setup,with shocks and without and have not seen any difference. I have heard that they help to prevent stake pumping but i use bullet stakes and have never seen were one was even close to being pulled by any animal even without a shockspring. I have bent a couple different homemade pullers up preatty bad pulling them so i do not worry about stake pumping to much. I have also heard they help prevent paw and shouder injury but like i said i have got a couple in traps without shocks and have seen no difference. I feel if you have a properly modified trap or one with thick and smooth foot friendly jaws you wont have many problems anyway. So whats YOUR reason for using them? I am not bashing them by anymeans but just want some different views. The only thing i really dislike about them is bedding a trap solid with one under it,usually takes me awhile to make it work right.
Ps; i must add i am talking about modern shocksprings like JC Conners.
Last edited by Butch; 06/24/07 09:11 PM.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Creektrapper]
#239596
06/24/07 09:12 PM
06/24/07 09:12 PM
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Wade Lacey
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Sure danny,they are modern. As long as they aint like them ones that you see on northwoods traps or modern day vic softcatches that get trashed very easily.
Last edited by Butch; 06/24/07 09:14 PM.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Wade Lacey]
#239609
06/24/07 09:18 PM
06/24/07 09:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,341 Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper
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I won't own a coyote trap that don't have them on it! I like them to keep from having stakes pumped in soggy ground after days on end of rainfall plus the fact they keep the animal from getting a solid pull on anything.
Ive held too many toe caught coyote's that I wouldn't of held otherwise to make them worth more than the cost to buy them.
Plus, ANYTHING that makes it harder for a coyote to get out of a trap im all for it!
Last edited by Jtrapper; 06/24/07 09:18 PM.
Not my circus, not my clowns.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: j lord]
#239882
06/25/07 12:15 AM
06/25/07 12:15 AM
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Posts: 21,341 Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper
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6-8 foot of heavy chain will accomplish the same result but has the added advantage of giving the coyote some freedom of movement.
Sorry Dave, lol. But I got to call ya out on the carpet on this one, lol.
8 foot of chain means that animal has 16 FEET to take a running go with going across the trap bed full throttle! Any idea how much speed a coyote can get up in that amount of distance? lol.
A HEAVY trap will wear one down just as fast WITHOUT giving him the foot lb's of pressue he can get with 16 FEET of running room! A small 1.5 or 1.75 sized trap and yes they will fight till the cow's come home but a heavy trap will wear them down USUALLY!
jlord was with me when i caught a wet female back in feb in a jake trap by both front feet and she wasn't giving up anytime in this life BUT prego's or females with a litter of pup's fight 100 times harder than just a normal ol coyote.
Ive also noticed with shock springs the coyote wants to pull sideways more so than straight up, i believe it because they can feel some 'give' each time they pull so they think they are getting somewhere doing that, just another plus to having a shock spring.
And YES Danny, they 'squeek' alot of times, sounds like old bedsprings, lol.
Not my circus, not my clowns.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Wade Lacey]
#240370
06/25/07 03:36 PM
06/25/07 03:36 PM
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#240470
06/25/07 05:01 PM
06/25/07 05:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,341 Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper
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Agree with ya on that Joel. On a drag shock springs and half the swivels are rendered useless alot of the time! I saw a coyote caught in a #11 one time on a window weight drag that mr. riverotter2 on here had set out for coon. It was hung up in some honeysuckle vines so each time it lunged that whole mass of vines gave, lol. SUPER shock spring there, lol.
Not my circus, not my clowns.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: dirthole1]
#240805
06/25/07 09:46 PM
06/25/07 09:46 PM
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6-8 foot of heavy chain will accomplish the same result but has the added advantage of giving the coyote some freedom of movement.
I just wonder how many coyotes died back in the day with an old style 5-6 foot chain. I think back in the day 22K to 31K were on long chains yearly. I wonder why the early Gmen used longer chains do to the smooth short dog knot stakes???? Seems it worked.
Last edited by Kinkless; 06/26/07 06:58 PM.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#240896
06/25/07 10:39 PM
06/25/07 10:39 PM
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Kevin E.
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I asked the same question a couple years ago and Pete Billings suggested I get some and try them. I did, and then bought more. The ground here is too rocky most places for cable stakes. The shock springs made a huge improvement in how tight/loose a rebar stake is after a catch.
You can't reason with people that lie to themselves and believe it.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Kevin E.]
#240902
06/25/07 10:44 PM
06/25/07 10:44 PM
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Hunt_with_dogs
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Extra weight, extra cost, and completely unecessary for my line.
The world might be headed to Hades, but you don't have too... >>> John 3:16 <<<
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Kevin E.]
#240907
06/25/07 10:48 PM
06/25/07 10:48 PM
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mike jerrell
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I like em, Most of my land traps are 13/4 traps, I dont set for coyote but if I get ahold of one it holds em and they dont tear my trap up, When using 2 and 3 s for cats I use a green hardwood saplin bout as big as your arm, so thats a spring too.
Gotta spread your arms and hold your breath and always trust your cape. ~ Jerry Jeff Walker
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Jtrapper]
#241876
06/27/07 12:00 AM
06/27/07 12:00 AM
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huntinglonewolf
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I caught 126 coyotes and all my traps are set up with shock springs. When coyotes lunge it keeps them from a solid jerk. I wouldn't be without them.
"Oh make no mistake, it’s not revenge I'm after—It’s a reckoning":
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#242561
06/27/07 05:36 PM
06/27/07 05:36 PM
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look at the size trap's they were using back then, animal welfare wasn't exactly on their minds!
Interesting I guess it's like people setting 1 3/4 for coyotes. If people want to mink trap coyotes go for it. Your going to tell me a 3n is larger than a 3 coilspring. I wonder how many coyotes fell to the 3n? What about the 3 Newhouse wasn't that a Govt issued trap also. The 4 and 3 worked off the same frame.
I read on here people recomending Duke 1.5's for coyotes. To each his own but not many guys putting up numbers of coyotes are using small traps and swingset chain either.
Last edited by Kinkless; 06/27/07 05:41 PM.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#242604
06/27/07 06:18 PM
06/27/07 06:18 PM
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Fire Fly Guy
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[b]Interesting I guess it's like people setting 1 3/4 for coyotes. So what are you saying Kinkless? People like Russ Carmen and Johne Thorpe use don't know what they are talikng about? I would love to use #3's. But plain in simple, it's not legal in NY and I hate to run the risk of harming a "non-target" for a "20 dollar" coyote.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Fire Fly Guy]
#242642
06/27/07 06:44 PM
06/27/07 06:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,341 Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper
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How many pulled out of those 3N's? We could question everything from now on if we wanted.
I don't care how one traps coyotes, if you want two tons of extra chain to lug around you don't need that's fine with me.
As for the 1.75 sized traps we agree there but there are exception's, it was the trap of choice of our coyote trappers in extreme south alabama, many caught over 100 coyotes annually, some double that!
Keep in mind though it's on 24 hour checks, no frozen ground and sandy soil, peanut growing country. They used about 3 swivels and a couple of links of chain nailed down with disposable stakes.
Is what works in THEIR part of the state, don't work so well for me in the part I trapped. Doesn't mean my style was right and their's wrong or vice versa, just means we had different condition's to operate in and adjusted to what worked the best for US!
I just don't see any logic in running 6-8 ft. of chain on a coyote trap staked down! 3 ft. in badger country i understand, anything over that don't make any sense to me.
Not my circus, not my clowns.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Jtrapper]
#243102
06/28/07 12:16 AM
06/28/07 12:16 AM
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How about this... I heard from a very well respected T-man member and BIG TIME coyote trapper, that he perfers the coyotes hit that chain end solid once so it don't feel so good and next time they won't hit it so hard. Makes sence to me.
~ADC~
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#243107
06/28/07 12:20 AM
06/28/07 12:20 AM
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ADC, What if they go to hit it the first time hard and pull out?
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#243114
06/28/07 12:23 AM
06/28/07 12:23 AM
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I don't know ask him, it's his theory. I just said it makes sence to me. *hint - rumor has it he's running for president
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: ]
#243146
06/28/07 12:37 AM
06/28/07 12:37 AM
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huntinglonewolf
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I disagree with ADC as if you had a coyote hit the chain hard and he wasn't caught good he would be gone. They are alot harder on traps with a straight hard jerk.
"Oh make no mistake, it’s not revenge I'm after—It’s a reckoning":
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: boyswannatrap]
#243717
06/28/07 04:35 PM
06/28/07 04:35 PM
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Slim Pedersen
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Lots of theories being expressed here. First get a #3 longspring or 3N if you prefer, same jaw spread anyway, set it, then set a 1.75 coilspring next to it---get your tape measure out too as eyesight can be deciving sometimes. But very little differences are there?
I came up through the time period when the 3n was the ONLY good coyote trap that was available to use. I also spent a good deal of time talking traps with very good coyote trappers, like George Good, Craig O'Gorman, Frank Morgan, and the list could go on and on in those days. Some preferred long chains, some preferred chains only long enough that badgers would not dig out the stakes. The Theories on the long chains is that the coyote would hurt his shoulder when he hit the end of the chain and so he would not be able to fight as long and hard after that, PLUS it kept him pulling sideways to the dog type smooth stakes or rebar stakes and he was not able to pump on the stakes upwards. All were correct but all were in a different time and in a different world than we live in today. ie. People and thier pets were not everywhere like they are today, for one thing, and trappers were not under near as much scroutney as we are today.
With that all in mind. The shock springs are good, if for no other reason, than it gives the appearance to the unknowing eyes that trappers are concerned about the animals that may be caught. However, in reality, I have never seen much difference in improvement to caught animals. But it does make a BIG difference in the ability of the animals being able to not pull stakes from the ground, like has already been stated many times.
Traps are greatly improved today, Swivels and chain are improved and much more readily available, Stop Shock springs are greatly improved from the original junk still offered for sale by one company, and we can argue weight etc. and nit pik from now till the cows come home, but in reality, most of the nit picking will only boil down to each trapper's mind set, which usually resists change. Change is good! I know I do not want to go back to driving a new 1960 vehicle, or 1960 tires, etc. If we are only talking coyotes and coyote traps, I prefer to use my number two offset Bridgers, baseplated with slightly offset to the side d-ring loop chain attachment with double swivel, 10 inchs of chain, a good PIT or JC Connors type shock spring, double swivel,and another six inchs of chain with a double swivel to fasten to whatever kind of staking system. Why---because it has a slightly larger jaw spread than an old Number three longspring trap, less weight and mess, AND the shock spring DOES help with coyotes not being able to pull the stakes, even if they do nothing more than pull on the shock spring, they are not pulling thier toes off, or pulling out of the traps.
Proud to be a trapper and supporter of trapping organizations
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: MChewk]
#244380
06/29/07 07:27 AM
06/29/07 07:27 AM
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Slim Pedersen
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Mchewk, How would a longer chain, even a heavy one, stop any shock? The longer chain, light, or heavy, only gives the animal more freedom to move around and tire itself out, as well as more things to tangle in often, so more stuff to chew on and wear it self down. The shock spring keeps the animal from getting as much leverage--period. I don't think it does anything more or less, and a long chain actually give an animal some additional leverage sometimes, but that is if it can pull uphill on the trap stake. The long chain gives the animal more shock on the foot and leg when it takes a long run across the trap circle.
Proud to be a trapper and supporter of trapping organizations
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Re: How do you feel about shocksprings?
[Re: Wade Lacey]
#244386
06/29/07 08:03 AM
06/29/07 08:03 AM
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DFronek
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I don't use shocksprings myself but have been toying with the idea of using some.But can't really see the advantage over what I'm using now.I'm running 12" of chain,nail swivel,3 links of #3 chain,nail swivel,3 links chain,nail swivel,then 3 more links of chain,then a quick link to cable stake.I drive the cable stake in the ground until the end swivel is below ground.Then give it a yank to set the stake and my end chain swivel is above ground and the last 3 links are below.I have the 12" of chain above ground.I've held the occasional toes catches nicely even a back foot 2 toe catch,of course the traps are fully modified and offset.There is definately a noticable catch circle from scratching and pulling.Most coyotes are laying down when I show up and pretty much don't move when I approach.I can't see where they could get a really good lunge on that setup,they really only have 2 feet of run way.I'm wondering if adding a shockspring is going to improve anything on this setup,and if I add a spring should I lengthen the chain out.My only reason for thinking about adding a longer chain and spring is badgers,the spring for the coyote and the length for the badgers,I usually average 3-4 badgers a years and release them.But using cable stakes these last couple years,and the way badgers are at digging,I had one that after releasing him out of the hole he dug under the stake,the stake just slid out like it was butter,the only thing keeping him there,in my mind,was daylight keeping him in the hole while the cable and chain was like looped over solid ground that was not dug and he was tucked under it.Here's a pic of my chain setup. Here is said badger. Most that I catch end up like this with dirt mounded up to the base of the trap. So what are some opinions,should I go longer and springs or stick with what I'm using.My setup works well for coyotes but those badgers woory me some,there protected here and don't need one running around with a trap on its foot.Over the years I think I've only had 3 dig under with the short chains,all the rest were mounded.Will lengthening the chain cause them to dig a hole more often and go under but not under the stake,or make no difference.
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: Slim Pedersen]
#244390
06/29/07 08:14 AM
06/29/07 08:14 AM
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Mchewk, How would a longer chain, even a heavy one, stop any shock? I think it's like this... if you wrap a heavy log chain 15' long to a tree and jerk hard on the other end with your hands, you won't get the snap at the end you would if you used a shorter light weight dog chain in the same situation. The weight of the chain lifting off the ground slows down the "jolt" when it gets tight. I could be wrong but that's what I think. ~ADC~
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Re: Whats your oppinion on shocksprings?
[Re: WhiskeyJack]
#244707
06/29/07 03:47 PM
06/29/07 03:47 PM
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Wade Lacey
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Thanks all,alot of good info has come out of this.
Last edited by Butch; 06/29/07 08:31 PM.
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