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#2582030 - 05/16/11 04:10 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Family Trapper Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
If the set has been around for years do you think that quite possibly many have learned it from someone else besides in Thorpe's video. I am sure there has been many a trapper that has hung bait off a 330 without ever hearing the name Thorpe. Rather a harsh comment to think that everyone learned and new of Thorpe.
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2582258 - 05/16/11 09:32 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: Family Trapper]
yukonjeff Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/02/08
Loc: M.T.V. Alaska
NEVER use green poles to attach your snares..or the same thing will happen time after time..thats beaver snaring 101

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#2582629 - 05/16/11 03:45 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Dale Torma Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/02/07
Loc: Northern MN
Good tutorial and discussion! I learn a bit every time from threads like this.

I have used the "trapeze" set ( baited conibear suspended by 2 wires) for years, and learned it from an old-timer who learned it from who knows who. Then learned it again from Johnny Thorpe last year in Wisc.

I only had Belisle 280's, and to get good head catches, I baited the bottom jaws or between them (With quite a little bundle of poplar) left the trigger wires on top, bent to a small coathanger shape about 3 - 4 inches wide by 1 inch deep, so the beaver would grab the bait and bump the trigger with the top of its head or neck while trying to swim away (through the trap) with the bait. I had and still have great success, and now prefer a 280, cause you get a neck catch, no fur damage and smaller hole to chop. caught many, many beavers of all sizes this way . when I first tried this type of set, I baited the trigger and had approx.30% snapped traps. I think the beaver was upright in the water and the closing trap pushed it away. tying bait to the jaws and using a small or offset trigger forces them to really get into the trap before firing. I even went so far as to have the trigger on the farthest side away from the expected approach. I cannot honestly remember a miss after changing to small triggers and bait wired to the bottom. A 330 you would not need such a small trigger because of the jawspread, but I still make them small or offset too.

I do my snare sets very different from Rally's and have lots of success with my method too. no bait just guarding the feed pile and runways with swivelled 10 inch loop snares. works better for me than baited snares. Each to their own.

anyway thats how I do it similarly to the above methods.

difficult to attribute particular sets to any one individual. May have been re-invented many times without knowing what other people were doing. It is a tough thing to say So and so invented this, when we really don't know who may have. I also learned my snare setting from a neighbor, who learned it from a guy in Alaska.

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#2582731 - 05/16/11 05:42 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Family Trapper Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Quote:
NEVER use green poles to attach your snares..or the same thing will happen time after time..thats beaver snaring 101


Well that is exactly what Rally does and mentors others to do and I would venture to say is probably one of the best beaver trappers there is.
He catches more beaver in a year than most trappers do in a lifetime. Must be something to it. I have not mastered the method for sure but from what I know about Rally I wouldn't be to quick to throw stones at the set.
The guy is a beaver trapping professional and has spent a lot of time working on figuring out how to do it. But he does teach a more advanced course than beaver 101 however. ;0)

Rally's setup that he has well documented on this thread.





Edited by Family Trapper (05/16/11 05:44 PM)
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2582736 - 05/16/11 05:45 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Top Jimmy Offline
"Assistant Speling Zcar"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Alaska, USA
I think there is a bit of a difference here. The snares might be "attached" to the bait pole, but in the end, I belive that most folks then secure the entire thing on a dead pole above the ice so that it doesn't disapear below. I know that is what we do. Snares are attached just under the ice to the bait pole, and if it is a deep hole, then we might attach another set of snares below the first.

-TJ
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Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.


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#2582738 - 05/16/11 05:47 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Family Trapper Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Dale
Quote:
I think the beaver was upright in the water and the closing trap pushed it away. tying bait to the jaws and using a small or offset trigger forces them to really get into the trap before firing.

i think you are on to something here.
I wonder what would happen if you put the coni right under the ice and horizonal with the bait in the middle. That way it might force him into position better as his body might be more vertical? Just a thought.
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2582853 - 05/16/11 07:05 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: Otter04]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Otter04
its called a hanging suzy or a swinging suzy. the set works .thorpe showed that set in his under ice video. its been around for more yrs than anyone can remember.....what i dont like is poeple dont give credit to those they learned it from..so sad.

You sure bout that? We used that in the early 80's but had a lot of empty fired traps. One day we found a dead beaver free floating near a fired 330 and quit using it not knowing how many other beaver had been killed but not held by the trap.

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#2583323 - 05/17/11 07:01 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Dale Torma Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/02/07
Loc: Northern MN
Rally has surely perfected his methods of snaring, I'm pretty good at beaver snaring, but could learn a thing or two from Mr. Rally Hess.

Drasselt, I only had fired empty traps when I was baiting the triggers, When I changed to bait tied to one jaw and a very small trigger I never had the problem again.

I have caught beaver using a quarter of a potatoe and even a slice of beaver tail exposing the white flesh (2 in one day by the nose in belisle 160's set for muskrats with beaver tail bait because the muskrats were eating the beaver tails on a three day check.) not very big beaver in the 160's though.

I like belisle 280's for baited under ice sets, but that is as small of a trap as I would go. I use a 10 to 12 inch loop for my beaver snaring under ice, with 3/32 1X19 swivel snares. I like them for my method, no snare mark and you can usually re-use the snare many times. never catch otter in the stiff snares though.

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#2584352 - 05/18/11 06:07 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Family Trapper Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Quote:
I belive that most folks then secure the entire thing on a dead pole above the ice so that it doesn't disapear below.

Now I would agree that would be 101. Sure would be fun to get some underwater video of beaver working a baited pole.
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2584402 - 05/18/11 07:28 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
On a Call Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/23/10
Loc: S/E Mich - N/W Ohio
One way I have done with my 330's is to run them with one spring up and one down. It is secured on a dead pole, because when I used green ones I have had them chewed in two without a fired trap. I bait them with either a green scraped stick wired to the jaw.

With that said I am more successful with the trapeze way...that is how I first started and continue.

Baiting with a pvc is somthing I want to try yet.

I do however want to try more snaring !!!

As far as snaring.....What locks should I use. Family Trapper...I saw in your photos using washer type. Are you happy how they work ?



Edited by On a Call (12/11/11 08:47 PM)

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#2584762 - 05/18/11 03:19 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Dale Torma Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/02/07
Loc: Northern MN
I have good luck with washer locks, no sharp edges to cut fur. Also Keiper locks work well for me, no sharp angles or edges facing the fur. don't particularly care for cam-locks. also small sharp edged locks sometimes cut guard hair. I have and still use plain "L" locks but grind the edges round. I wish someone would make the old Kleffman lock (Kleflock), they work good for everything, the bear sized was the best drowner lock ever for me. I still have a few on my old no 14's and they dont wear out like a crunchproof swivel (the hole getting wore out by cable.) been re-using old kleffman locks for 34 years.

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#2879837 - 12/11/11 06:07 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Family Trapper Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
This is too good not to archive or at least keep alive. TTT
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2880032 - 12/11/11 09:33 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
We can do either
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Mean As Nails

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#2880207 - 12/11/11 12:15 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
I have used snare poles both dry(fire killed) with bait and green with safety wire.However after trapping with a couple of professional big number under ice beaver trappers I have adopted their methods of using conibears under ice at den entrance.First use hollow aluminum pike pole to locate the MAIN entrance bysounding with pole.The hollow pole will amplify the distict difference in sound from the air bubbles at the entrance.Open hole with chain saw or chisel(depending on activity)If the entrance is very wide,(which is often the case)set two or three traps side by side with block sticks so as one beaver cannot spring two traps.No other fencing is necessary.Out in front(away from the house)where the channel narrows set one or two more traps.Many times we have rolled up to a house after two or three days and have removed 3 or 4 beaver.If channel is narrow all the way out from house set two or three traps a couple feet apart in channel.Beaver will be caught coming and going from house in either direction.One check and then pull.Under good conditions 2 guys can set up to 20 houses in a day.You will need a good snow machine and large deep sleigh to carry traps and stands.this is a very efficient way to catch beaver.

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#2881035 - 12/11/11 08:46 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
On a Call Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/23/10
Loc: S/E Mich - N/W Ohio
Brings back memories untill we get good ice down here...which should be next week.

Personally I like hitting the runs by hanging one or two 330's side by side off at least a 2" inch pole. I use just rebar wire to do the hanging. The traps are hung into the run about 4-6 inches off the bottom. I might use 1" sticks to stable the traps a bit by shoving the sticks through the springs into the mud, but I have just allowed them to hang also with good results also.

I will either chop a hole or often there no ice above the run. The pole is laid perpendicular to the run and the traps hang off the pole. Some time I trap close to a lodge other times I am 20 yards away.

I do not understand the above use of a pole for sounding (?) to locate runs, I just look for thin ice or chop till I find them. If there is a more easy way...let me onto it. Time is time.

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#2881049 - 12/11/11 08:54 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
2 guys couldn't set up 3 houses in a day in my country. How much ice are you talking about Boco ?
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#2881249 - 12/11/11 10:49 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Around an active house even in january the ice is usually no more than 18" thick in the main run where as out in the lake it might be 4 ft.Most of the beaver trapping here is done on creeks 30 ft wide or less with ponds in series.Some areas south of us have very good beaver habitat but once you get into the james bay lowlands they are much further apart however winter travel is good.Are most of your beaver on big rivers White? I stay off the big rivers too risky.Lakes are usually OK to travel if you have a good machine that can handle the slush,and watch out for pressure cracks on the big lakes.Some medium size lakes can have a couple or three active colonys if the feed(poplar)is there.In march some good catches can be made as sometimes there is little or no ice at the run.You can see the run under the snow as the snow melts into the water and a distinct groove will show in the snow(learned this the hard way by steppin in)


Edited by Boco (12/11/11 10:55 PM)

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#2881270 - 12/11/11 11:10 PM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Yeah my beavers are almost all on the river. Like you I won't travel on the river. Mine is far too risky for more than a couple hundred yards at a time. Lots of bad spots and open holes.

By the time beaver here will take a bait we usually have 2-4 feet of ice. Of course you can't see anything below about 2 inches in the water so that doesn't help a lot.

The avaiable food is slim in my area so the houses may be several miles apart and you have to travel the tundra and come at them from cross country to get to them. Lots of breaking trail. Sometimes I even have to cut bait elswhere and haul it where I want to use it.
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Mean As Nails

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#2881327 - 12/12/11 12:42 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
Family Trapper Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Quote:
I do not understand the above use of a pole for sounding (?) to locate runs, I just look for thin ice or chop till I find them. If there is a more easy way...let me onto it. Time is time.


I trapped beaver in Montana. It is cold there for the lower 48. But I had to learn how to trap beaver all over again up here under the ice. Circumstances are a lot different. Depending on our freeze up beaver trapping ponds can set up with or without tell tail signs of where beaver runs are. Just too much foggy ice.
Worst I have ever seen it this year. I am an entrance trapping guy. Usually looking for bait more than anything. I will take any beaver I can. Entrances are deadly and if you start early can be found easily. The longer you wait the more ice that builds over the runs. Thunking along the perimeter of the house can tell you a lot. You will learn to hear the thud of a more hollower ice above the runways. This year the ice is so rotten and slushed up due to early snow and lack of ice that it is a mess.

When it get too deep to find these I use a method walking around the house and diving my chainsaw blade vertically into the ice every 18 inches in likely spots around the perimeter of the house. You can quite quickly isolate the thinner ice and thus the entrance to the house this way. From there your home free.
I need some beaver for bait this year and am just going to wait and set up baited conibears after they get hungry since conditions are so lousy this year and my time is short.


Edited by Family Trapper (12/12/11 12:43 AM)
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2881444 - 12/12/11 05:50 AM Re: Under ice beaver/conibear? [Re: TrapperTy]
On a Call Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/23/10
Loc: S/E Mich - N/W Ohio
I thought about using the above method with the white PVC on the trigger. Saw your photo W17 I just wonder how well it will work here on early ice.

FT I thought his method was bit differant for sounding. Thank you for setting me straight. I too use my axe or chainsaw to find the runs. And if you are in the runs no need for bait :), although it might increase your odds ??


Edited by On a Call (12/12/11 05:55 AM)

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