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#1975830 - 05/01/10 11:11 AM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: warrior]
sgs Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/10/09
Loc: NH
Where did you get the info that 99% of human rabies fatalities are from bats? I don't doubt it, I'm just wondering. As far as I know, bats are the only vector to "aerosolize" the virus so I guess it could be.

At one or two cases per year, it might be fairly easy to trace the source.

I'm with you on the necessity of bat eviction. I'm right there on the eviction of all wildlife from housing.
_________________________
Steve

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#1975834 - 05/01/10 11:17 AM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Bob Wendt]
warrior Online   content
trapper

Registered: 01/28/07
Loc: Georgia
Exactly, that is why rabies and histo are always discussed when I am contacted about bats.
Raccoons/skunks in the yard can be avoided so rabies is a ask only subject then. I do ask if contact has been made with the animals in question though as per the state.
Squirrels/rats/fliers can but don't so again ask only. Rodents do get mention of chewing habits and damage if for no other reason than the same "they must go" opinion.

The way I usually handle it is with facts and not hyperbole. I lay out the method(s) of infection and it's course through the body with the inevitable infection and destruction of the brain. I also stress the importance of immediate action if contact is even suspected and outline what the protocol will be (being sure to not practice medicine but qualify my statements).
I do this to get their attention (as well as impart that I know that which I speak of) and stress the seriousness of what we do. By now most folks are getting concerned and some are scared so I always pull back and lay out the numbers that at any given time only 1%-2% test positive at any time and that the odds are in their favor (though I can offer no guarantees) of not coming in contact with the virus. The idea is not to scare them into making a rash purchase of my services but instead to allow them to make an informed decision to go with the most knowledgable candidate.
I may be an hour or more in just conversation before the price ever comes up.
_________________________

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#1975845 - 05/01/10 11:32 AM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: warrior]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Loc: Central Ohio
No, it isn't very wide spread in central or southwest Ohio.

But yes it is a very REAL threat anywhere!

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#1975846 - 05/01/10 11:33 AM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: warrior]
warrior Online   content
trapper

Registered: 01/28/07
Loc: Georgia
One word of advice though to anyone who wants to really get to this level of knowledge with customers. QUALIFIER; This is not to say that I am any smarter than the next guy

Study, study, study! Read everything you can find on the subject matter even (especially) the dry CDC stuff. If you have difficulty find someone to help you (I have been fortunate to do some work in cooperation with some of the CDC zoonoses infection doctors). Learn until you are the expert for your customers but never ever think you are the expert be willing to help your customer to learn have material on hand for them to read or steer them to websites (be willing to provide documentation of your knowledge) or get them in contact with health professionals. Don't be afraid to say "I don't know the aswer to that question" but be more than willing to find the answer for them.

NEVER, EVER BLOW SMOKE WITH THIS TYPE OF KNOWLEDGE.
At best you get busted and look like an idiot, at worst you have a customer running in a blind panic based on falsehoods.

Know your strengths and weaknesses. My strength being the son of three generations of school teachers is a voracious reading habit and a funny brain that files away worthless information (or so I thought).
_________________________

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#1976050 - 05/01/10 02:51 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Bob Wendt]
Travis Wolford Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/21/09
Loc: Tipton, IN
From what I have read in Indiana the two main species that have came back positive for rabies are bats and dogs. However it seems to me the numbers are scewed for the fact that there have been 100 times more dogs and bats tested than anything else so I say of course they are going to have more confirmed cases. This all makes me wonder exactly how many actual cases of rabies get misdiagnosed or just called distemper because its unknown. How many sick raccoons do you get in a yard every year and you say distemper? Unless animals have the viscous, drooling "Old Yeller" strain its my understanding (from biologists) that there is no way to look at an animal and say 100% they have rabies. I have been told the only true way to anser that is in a lab. And yes Bob is right you dont have to get bit by a bat, how many of you do attic clean outs and dont have a profilactic, or pre-exposure? Many of us in this industry are flirting with disaster I would guess. Informing John Q Public about zoonotic diseases could be a full time job, if a city type person ever got on the CDC web site and looked only at the bird diseases they would most likely never go outside again lol. So I keep it simple and if someone asks about the whole rabies thing, I keep it to the facts and answer thier questions as best I can. If they ask me something im unsure of I refer them to the CDC because I do not want to misenform them. I never want to be accused of selling a job by means of scare tactics, I believe I am a better person than that.
_________________________
it is not a stupid question if you do not know the answer

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#1976055 - 05/01/10 02:54 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Travis Wolford]
Travis Wolford Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/21/09
Loc: Tipton, IN
Ok, I guess I should have seen there were two pages on here. I guess warrior has covered all my points already.
_________________________
it is not a stupid question if you do not know the answer

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#1976067 - 05/01/10 03:12 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Travis Wolford]
TheRAT Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Loc: Meriden, KS
I spoke with a Kansas Wildlife and Parks employee about diseases in the wildlife population here in Kansas. The state has "estimated" that in the wild skunk population as much as 80% may have rabies. Like others have mention a mammal, including humans, can carry rabies for as long as a year without showing the typical signs.

I know that the raccoon population in my area is suffering from canine distemper, which is not a zoonotic disease, but can be transmitted to the canine population (which is why it is called "canine" distemper).
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#1976084 - 05/01/10 03:26 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: TheRAT]
Nathan Krause Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/28/08
Loc: Waterford, WI
I have heard that skunks can also spread rabies through the air along with bats.

I will try to dig up the source but it said a % of pets get infected from sticking their nose into a skunk den under a garage or elsewhere in the yard.
_________________________
http://www.trappingbynate.com





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#1976149 - 05/01/10 04:34 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Nathan Krause]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Nathan, I very seriously doubt that the rabies virus can last long enough in the air to cause rabies. And if I'm wrong than it's got to be a southern thing; we've never had a case up here.

As a matter of fact, it appears we've not had a rabid raccoon in Wisconsin since they started keeping records; over fifty years.

I know some guys like to use rabies to sell jobs, but think about it. Every time someone contracts rabies, the whole nation knows about it, so I figure your chances of getting hit by lightning twice is better than getting rabies.

I am not making light of the disease. I have the vaccination and my son got the series. I don't take any undue chances with the safety of us or the customers but we've got people up here that want to sue because they once saw some raccoon feces. Sueing beats working apparantly.

Our DNR is just like Kansas. Everything is infected so kill it all! I love watching them and the humane society duke it out. They're both nutty!

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#1976196 - 05/01/10 05:16 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Paul Winkelmann]
Nathan Krause Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/28/08
Loc: Waterford, WI
Maybe what I saw was from the south. I looked for it again and couldn't find where I heard that.

I don't believe I have ever dealt with an animal that was infected but like you I don't take the risk either.

I brought this topic up because I was asked the other day about rabies and if the risk was real. I told that person the same thing I said on here.

But I have not recalled a rabies discussion on this board and thought it would be a fun topic.
_________________________
http://www.trappingbynate.com





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#1976220 - 05/01/10 05:39 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Nathan Krause]
LAtrapper Online   content

"Professor"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Lower Alabama (Daleville)
An informative link-
Human Rabies Prevention
United States, 2008
Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/rr/rr57e507.pdf

Links to a couple previous discussions on the subject.

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1368268
http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1212179/Rabies.html#Post1212179

EDIT: Another interesting link-
Rabies surveillance in the United States during 2007
http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/pdf/surveillance_us_2007.pdf


Edited by LAtrapper (05/01/10 06:26 PM)
_________________________
Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry


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#1976242 - 05/01/10 05:58 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: LAtrapper]
sgs Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/10/09
Loc: NH
LAtrapper, I read those links and I found it interesting that Barkstone (I think it was) had a hard time getting the pre-exposure shots. I mentioned it to my doctor in the early spring and he about dope slapped me for not having it done already.

As the stats show, rabies in humans is exceptionally rare but it's not worth taking the chance. If you get bit, call the doc and see what he says. If you're in the business, I'd recommend the pre-exposure shots. Why take the chance.

Does the average joe need to worry about it? Not unless he is bitten.
_________________________
Steve

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#1976265 - 05/01/10 06:17 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Paul Winkelmann]
Robb Russell Offline


Registered: 03/28/07
Loc: Gainesville, Alachua, Florida,...
Paul rabies is a virus and typically spread by saliva. You may have never had a record of a rabid raccoon in Wisconsin frr 50 years but your own area holds the only record of the worlds only rabies survivor about 60 miles away from you in Fon du Lac, Jeanna Giese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_protocol

Reading your posts I would say you have had 22 years of luck. Your own own son PJ I have read has not been as lucky!

I never take a chance with wildlife and the possible diseases that may and or can spread. I am sure Dr. Bob Wendt, DVM has more to enlighten all of us here.It is his opinion that really should matter since he is the actual medical professional and subject matter expert on zoonotic diseases.

How many times have each of you washed your hands today?

What do you carry in your truck to keep your hands and cab clean?

Do you or your company have a protocol to follow to not spread the potential of diseases from customer to customer or from a customer to your own family & pets?
_________________________
Find Our Podcasts @ http://www.thewildlifepro.net

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#1976496 - 05/01/10 09:03 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Robb Russell]
MikeFlick Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Loc: Wisconsin
Im not trying to catch anything in an attic that will slow me down the next day. If its not rabies it could be something else, even a nail in the head!
I did the duct tape stitches thing when a cat chewed on my finger back in 2001 and a week later I couldnt walk.
That cat job had 13 cats and they all died on there own before I got sick. I got better on my own, but it was rough for a couple of weeks, Like the flu... but worse!
_________________________
http://www.anytimeanimalcontrol.com
Wildlife Control Nationwide 800-714-8727

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#1976537 - 05/01/10 09:32 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: MikeFlick]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Robb, interesting that you should bring up the Fon du Lac case. This is actually a case I know something about. Here are a few things about this case you might find interesting.

Miss Giese picked up this bat on the floor of her church on a Sunday morning. It bit her, she knew it, but didn't say anything.

When I mentioned her case to my favorite rehabber she said, "Don't worry about her. We have a prayer wheel that goes halfway around the earth. She'll be just fine!" She was quite serious.

I got a call from a guy with a raccoon in his living room. Turns out this guy's wife was one of the doctors who pulled of this rabies miracle. They were sure they had a cure for future rabies cases.

Much to their disappointment, this was the only case where their "miracle cure" worked. I'm guessing they probably were just missing the prayer wheels!

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#1976585 - 05/01/10 10:06 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Paul Winkelmann]
MikeFlick Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Loc: Wisconsin
I have drown twice, and revived.
Ive been run over by a truck, and lived.
Ive been lit on fire from the chest down, and survived without any lasting marks,
Been shot and came out of it just fine.
Sooner or later my luck has to run out I think
Im taking less chances these days..... or mabe im just paranoid.
_________________________
http://www.anytimeanimalcontrol.com
Wildlife Control Nationwide 800-714-8727

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#1976594 - 05/01/10 10:15 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: sgs]
ccoyote Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/10/09
Loc: benton cty, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: sgs
Rabies is, of course, a real danger but so is lightning and many other things.

The US averages around one rabies death per year. But around 25,000 people get preventive medical treatment after coming into contact with a potentially rabid animal.

Common sense rules. If your job is to deal with nuisance wildlife, pre-exposure treatment is prudent. If trapping is a hobby, it may be a good idea or it may be overkill.

One thing is for sure in my mind. If you get bit by a wild animal, treat it as if it were a rabid animal whether you have had the pre-exposure treatment or not.
how bad are they i refuse to take a flu shot but will take shots for anything else
The price of the pre-exposure vaccine varies from affordable to ridiculous. I paid $800 but I've heard of it a cheap as $300.

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#1976628 - 05/01/10 10:35 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: ccoyote]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
My pre-exposure was $60. My son's post exposure was $4500.

So far I haven't been bitten by an opossum, a skunk, or a bat. I think just about everything else has nailed me. What about you guys?

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#1977764 - 05/02/10 08:38 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: Bob Wendt]
JSawyer Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/21/08
Loc: NC
Only if you get it.

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#1977803 - 05/02/10 09:02 PM Re: Is rabies a real danger? What are your opinions? [Re: JSawyer]
BanditBuster Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/25/07
Loc: Near Alexandria, MN
If you get a vacine, is there still a chance of getting rabbies? A family friend of ours died from rabbies last year. I told my mom I'm not going another season with out the shots.

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