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#1729347 - 01/12/10 12:57 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: 3 Fingers]
piperniner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1275
Loc: Alaska
If you really want simple, go to alaskatrappers.org and click on cabin building workshop. Chain saw, spikes and sledge is all you need. Interesting to watch and to see how quick and dirty you can build a trapper's cabin. Some would reject this method - but it works for those who want little time and money invested.

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#1729353 - 01/12/10 01:00 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: 3 Fingers]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14668
Loc: McGrath, AK
If you build on the ground and then cut windows & door it will work fine...for a while. When things begin to settle and rot, your doors and windows will not work properly. If you put your sills on some sort of support system you can always shim the building back into level as 3 Fingers points out.

2x12's are overkill. The point of a roof is to be strong, but light. One inch material is sufficient. Definitely sticker it and let it dry.

Chimney through the roof for sure. Also, penetrate the roof as close to the ridge as possible.
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#1729371 - 01/12/10 01:09 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: 3 Fingers]
Doogie Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 278
Loc: Montana
I think yukon254 is saying he builds the floor out of pressure treated boards then mills one side of the sill logs flat and sets them on the already built floor, look at the pics on the website he posted, his post makes sence after looking at the pic of the Lodge on the main page

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#1729441 - 01/12/10 01:48 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
holdengr Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/07/07
Posts: 832
Loc: Ontario
Originally Posted By: white17

Chimney through the roof for sure. Also, penetrate the roof as close to the ridge as possible.



Why do you say to put the chimney through the roof? Wouldnt that be more apt to leak than going out through the side of the cabin?


I'm not a cabin builder nor do I claim any knowledge of said process.

Asking purely out of curiosity.


Edited by holdengr (01/12/10 01:49 PM)

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#1729488 - 01/12/10 02:22 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: holdengr]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14668
Loc: McGrath, AK
Four reasons at least.

1. get heat off of the stove pipe into the cabin
2. safer than having pipe next to the logs
3. You want the pipe as high as possible relative to the ridge so the sliding snow doesn't rip it off. That will happen if your pipe is below the eave or close to it.
4. stove draws better without the two elbows in the pipe.
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#1730028 - 01/12/10 05:21 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
piperniner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1275
Loc: Alaska
I agree with the floor crowd. If you don't want treated, then use your mill to cut 3 by 12's. Then just cut them app. 2 feet each, then criss cross them and spike them together for a pad. Stack them two, two and one. Can go more or less of them for desired height. Could then use preservative like 254 said . This would allow for jacking. All just idea's, you have to build what you want.

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#1730460 - 01/12/10 06:54 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: piperniner]
snareman1234 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Fraser Valley, British Columbi...
OKOK so no cabin on dirt, bad idea, spend the extra time because we have the man power and make it up right?

Piperniner, sort of confused here
criss cross these 3x12x2's and form like a T?
or an X?

So the idea is that with the cabin resting on the wood pad, the wood pad will rot and not the cabin? and then you can jack the cabin up and replace the rotting pad/ support?

why not just when the sill logs rot, jack the cabin up and replace the sill logs



Thanks for the advice on the chimney!!
what sort of jack system to use to keep as much water out as possible?

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#1730772 - 01/12/10 08:11 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: snareman1234]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14668
Loc: McGrath, AK
Just a regular store-bought roof jack will work fine.

P9er is easily confused. What he was trying to say was;

Take two pieces of 3x12 and lay them side by side. Lay two more on top of those but at 90 degrees and spike them together. Now you have one piece that is 2'x2'x6" thick. put one more or two more etc. whatever you need to get your sills level. Space them every 8 feet under your sills.

Then you can paint these with some copper product like dock & fencepost preservative. Keeps your sills out of the dirt/water.
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#1730995 - 01/12/10 09:05 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
snareman1234 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Fraser Valley, British Columbi...
Ok, well that sounds good! I understand that!

As much of a bother as this may be to you guys this is all
extremely vakuable info to me and I greatly appreciate all your insight,
I just want to do this right!!

So I have decided to get the cabin off the ground.

I do plan on having a quad trail in, and If I have to bring in the paint and brushes etc to do all this and wait for it to dry, what about using cinder blocks? or is the bigger surface area provided by the wood blocks superior?

This is what I have gathered, please correct if wrong, because I feel I may be a bit off

So once I get my blocks down and all leveled up. I place my 2 sill logs. The sill logs have a flat side cut on the topside
ontop of the sills go my floor boards nailed down. then I start to build my walls and the floor boards will be nailed and sandwidched in between the sill and above log.
if I build my cabin 12x16, would I need any floor joists? or just span the cabin with the floor boards, maybe make them a little thickers?

If I let the logs season for a year, how much space should I allow so that I can compensate for settling above door and window

Any info on keeping roof jack from leaking

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#1731031 - 01/12/10 09:14 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
piperniner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1275
Loc: Alaska
Whose on second ?

What White said.

Could just replace rotton sills - it's personal preference and opinion based on people's experience - like anything else. Some just feel it's a better method for building, leveling and repairing. Like they say in Bethel - yupik.


Edited by piperniner (01/12/10 09:17 PM)

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#1731310 - 01/12/10 10:46 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: piperniner]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
If hauling in sheet metal full length is a problem you can cut it
into managable lengths like 4 ft or whatever for hauling and then shingle it. Take in a few tubes of mastic and a caulking gun to seal the seams and for around the roof jack.
The same can be done with treated lumber for ground sills and floor joist. Cut 2X6's into 6 ft lenghts and laminate your beams
by staggering the joints, use lots of nails and gorilla glue.

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#1731757 - 01/13/10 07:49 AM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: Spek Jones]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14668
Loc: McGrath, AK
The size of the pads depends on the bearing pressure of your soils. Concrete blocks would be ok but they might not be stable. The building might rock slightly depending on how many you put at each location. The smaller the footprint of the pad, the higher the PSI on the soil. The higher the psi, the more difficult it will be for frost to move the building. I wouldn't go larger than 24"x24" and 16" would be better. I know that is counter-intuitive but it works.

You need three sill logs not two. One in the center; and I would use floor joists. Run them the 12 foot direction obviously and you can get by with 2x6 since your span will not be more than 6 feet. Inch board for the deck. I suppose you could cut full 2 inch thick flooring and omit the joists but then you can't insulate the floor if you had planned to do that.

The roof jack won't leak if you install it correctly, With metal roofing you can slide the high edge of the roof jack flashing under the ridge cap of the roofing, provided you locate the pipe hole close to the ridge. OR, you can screw an extra scrap of roofing over the top of the flashing and the cover that with the ridge cap. Try to get away from cutting a slot in the metal and sliding the roof jack into it. That's more hassle and more prone to leak at the edges of the cut.

Head space over the windows and door: Depends on the foundation you choose. I'd start with 1 1/2" over each. Spray foam the gaps. The foam will compress some but still keep the gap sealed. It will be a long time before you have to make adjustments...if ever.
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#1731813 - 01/13/10 08:19 AM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 445
Loc: Yukon
Depending on the size of your logs... a log wall can shrink up to 1 inch per foot of wall height. Not allowing enough room over doors and windows is the mistake most often made by first time log builders. If I am building with green logs my standard is to leave 6 inches, and I have had to go back later on some and cut out more! The pads I use are 4 ft by 4 ft 5 inches thick, one man cant move them, but that is on bad ground. Get Tom Walkers book it will answer all of your questions.
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#1732231 - 01/13/10 11:40 AM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: yukon254]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
This cabin is a 14X16, originally built out of green, frozen unpeeled logs in the winter time, with untreated rough-cut lumber floor, bottom ring setting on the ground. The corners are
mortise & tenon (called the "trapper notch" locally) done with a chain saw by eyeball (no tape measuring). No swedish cope, just
run a saw between the logs to fit them to rach other. Two of us
logged and stacked the walls in four days using a set of bull hooks to skid the logs. The bottom logs and floor rotted out after 25 yrs. We used air jacks a few years ago and raised it up
and replaced the bottom ring with 8X8 treated beams and the floor with 2X6 treated joist decked with 5/8 treated plywood. The
8X8's set right on the ground. The door and windows are framed in with rough-cut 2X6. Shrinkage was not figured in and has never been a problem. When we raised it up we also peeled the bark inside & out and perma-chinked inside and out as well as
replaced the roof. Heres a pic with the bear guards over the windows.

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#1732539 - 01/13/10 01:26 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I would definitely go bigger than 10X10. I built a 10X12 one time and it was too small even for one person to be comfortable in. The 14X16 sleeps 4 OK but for extended time it is about right for 2 people. Even if you don't do it right away you should eventually perma-chink at least the outside. With it you can make the cabin squirrel and mouse proof and it makes the cabin easier to heat. If you do perma-chink you need a air vent
in the gable like the one in the picture with screen over it to
provide some air circulation to prevent carbondioxide poisoning
and to let moister escape from inside the cabin. Maybe the picture will help with some ideas on building.

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#1732817 - 01/13/10 03:07 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: Spek Jones]
snareman1234 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Fraser Valley, British Columbi...
Great Info from all here, you guys have no idea how much this is helping, maybe with a few more guys posting pics and some good info this can make it into the Archives!!!

Spek Jones, that is a great cabin, you must be very proud of it!
Its actually really nice to see a pic of one, if anyone else has a pic of their cabin, and put a brief description of their experinces, this thread would be great for all new cabin builders!

Spek jones. So originally your cabin was just sitting on the ground? I am sorry I dont know what a Bottom Ring is, I assume it us the bottom log, sill log?

What did you use for roofing material, and you used air jacks? they need a generator to run?

And I also have changed my plans to 12x16.

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#1733065 - 01/13/10 04:16 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: snareman1234]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14668
Loc: McGrath, AK
Here's mine;

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Mean As Nails

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#1733075 - 01/13/10 04:17 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14668
Loc: McGrath, AK
Here's another one;




Here's something else you should consider.

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Mean As Nails

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#1733275 - 01/13/10 05:19 PM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: white17]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Yes snareman, the bottom ring is the 4 bottom logs. We just leveled off the ground and started stacking logs. We nailed 2X4's around inside to the bottom logs to rest the floor joist on. After the floor and bottom ring rotted and we raised it up
and put the 8X8 beams under it and hung the floor off the 8X8's.
It is a hard job to raise a cabin and replace the bottom ring.
If you can swing it you are much better off to put down something
that will last like treated wood, railroad ties or concrete, with
the treated wood being the easeist and most pratical.
The air jacks do require a small generator and a small compressor
but work a lot better and faster than Hyd jacks, and you can bring all 4 corners up at the same time. We roofed it originally
with tar paper. Eventually replaced that with sheet metal cut into 3ft lengths, then when we rebuilt the whole thing we reroofed it with full lenght sheet metal.

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#1734884 - 01/14/10 06:51 AM Re: Need help building trapper cabin [Re: Spek Jones]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 445
Loc: Yukon
Spek I will have to look into those airjacks! Thanks. Logs cut in the winter will shrink the least (sap is down) With a floor built the way Spek describes snareman where you are you will have major trouble with rodents under it, if I remember right when I was at the Gang Ranch we had our share of pack rats! When you build your walls then hang a floor a couple logs up you are building a rodent factory on the bottom level.
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