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#1460863 - 08/18/09 09:00 AM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: AT78]
Ohio Andy Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 3802
Loc: Ohio
Jonathan, I will keep it and try it again when needed. It isn't hurting anything where it is at, just taking up a little unused space... I will let you know my results when i do use it again.
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Andy

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#1460882 - 08/18/09 09:13 AM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Jonathan]
doublesettrigger Online   content
trapper

Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 1622
Loc: West Tennessee
That looked like wax floating on top of that gunk. Did the vinegar remove the old wax film also?

Rickey

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#1460983 - 08/18/09 10:17 AM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: doublesettrigger]
Jonathan Offline
"Wilson"

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7818
Loc: Northwestern New York(Elder)
Doubleset, I assume that gunk is just froth left from the vinegar attacking the rusty metal. It isn't wax. My solution looked identical after cleaning a dozen of rusty coil springs that had no wax on them.

When traps get as rusty as those pictured there isn't any wax left on them. Boiling is the best way that I know of to remove old wax in the trap preparation process - dyeing and waxing.

Shown below are before and after close-up examples from my rust removal project last year. I bought the traps used, and they had been hanging in an open shed for 20 years according to the seller. Surprisingly, as rusty as these traps were, they cleaned up exceptionally well after a 2-3 day soaking.

I did not have to wire brush them - just ran some coarse steel wool over them to get the residue chunks off. They were rinsed with fresh water and left out to get a thin film of rust prior to dyeing and waxing.

Jonathan





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Jonathan
Basic Camera Gear: Canon EOS 50D with Canon EF 10-20mm, EF 28-135mm and EF 100-400mm lenses; Dutch Hill tripod with Wimberly Gimbal head.



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#1461111 - 08/18/09 11:32 AM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Jonathan]
tmrschessie Offline



Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7552
Loc: South Central Nebraska age 64
Yes there was wax on the traps, I had skimmed the gunk off twice before taking that picture.

The vinegar I use is bought at Walmart, that is the lowest price I could find. The dollar store had some in smaller bottles so when you figured the price it was less expencsive to get a gallon at Walmart...Tom

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#1461160 - 08/18/09 12:17 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: tmrschessie]
canvasback Online   content
"Exempt"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4784
Loc: NY
Why mix with water ? I understand it is a 5 gallon bucket, but you are diluting the Vinegar when you mix it 1 to 4 . I have used 5 gallons of straight Vinegar in the 5 gallon bucket each time I do the Vinegar rinse. Last time I checked, it was 4.95 a gallon . so about $25.00 worth of Vinegar in the 5 gallon bucket.

Another point to consider, leave the traps in for a longer period of time and you will get more of the rust off without having to brush any of it off. I leave my traps in Vinegar for 1 to 2 Weeks when doing the Vinegar dip.
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#1461174 - 08/18/09 12:27 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: canvasback]
Fox Claw Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 806
Loc: backwoods N. Wi.
This is a good post. I'm just wondering if anyone knows what it is about vinegar that causes the rust-eating properties.

If its simply the pH I'd think that one could get a whole lot more powerful (concentrated) acid cheeper and less stinky. Anyone know?

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#1461181 - 08/18/09 12:31 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Fox Claw]
AT78 Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/08
Posts: 812
Loc: MN
I know you can use muriatic sp? acid, like the stuff used to clean mortor from brick.

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#1461261 - 08/18/09 01:47 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: AT78]
tmrschessie Offline



Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7552
Loc: South Central Nebraska age 64
Basically I use the vinegar for safety reasons, as stated above. I Mix with water so reduce the cost and it does an excellent job in my humble opinon. The use of the brush does not bother me one bit, a little work is good for the soul, or so I have been told. Tom

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#1461470 - 08/18/09 04:06 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: tmrschessie]
Walleyemike Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 205
Loc: NW L.P. MI
I had pretty good luck with some 100% household Lye I bought from Menard's. I made even the inside of my new dye pot (prior to dyin) super clean after hitting it with a wire brush.

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#1461629 - 08/18/09 05:23 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: AT78]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 5066
Loc: Eastern NC
Originally Posted By: AT78
I know you can use muriatic sp? acid, like the stuff used to clean mortor from brick.


Everything vinegar does, muriatic does faster and cheaper.

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#1461662 - 08/18/09 05:51 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: DanielE]
Gage Drift Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: DanielE
Originally Posted By: AT78
I know you can use muriatic sp? acid, like the stuff used to clean mortor from brick.


Everything vinegar does, muriatic does faster and cheaper.


That's what I was thinking, but no experience. One gallon of muratic acid to 19 gallons of water to create a 5% solution similar to white vinigar?

I want to degrease new traps without hurting them. No rust involved. No rusting desired. Dip and rinse? Prep for drying, painting and waxing.



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#1461671 - 08/18/09 05:54 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Gage Drift]
Wyatt Peverley Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 1692
Loc: Wamego Kansas
pm tom
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#1461673 - 08/18/09 05:55 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Gage Drift]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 5066
Loc: Eastern NC
I don't mix it that thin....mostly because I want it to work real fast.

I've never used acid for degreasing. Only rust, dip, and plating removal.

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#1461690 - 08/18/09 06:08 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: DanielE]
Gage Drift Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Kansas
OK. Gonna PM Tom.

Daniel, What percent solution do you use? I understand the "real fast" part. That's what I'm looking for too. smile Fast, easy, cheap and easy on the traps is what I need.

Our local car wash must be lame because I hit some with tire wash twice and power washed them twice and still got dirty.

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#1461701 - 08/18/09 06:16 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Gage Drift]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 5066
Loc: Eastern NC
For removing plating....I do it straight and its nearly instantaneous.

For derusting anywhere from 1:1 to 1:10 (acid:water)....depending on how quickly I want it done and how many traps I am doing.

I would recommend a dip in water and baking soda to neutralize.

1:5 or less is definitely strong enough to noticably etch the steel.

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#1461847 - 08/18/09 07:30 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: DanielE]
tmrschessie Offline



Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7552
Loc: South Central Nebraska age 64
I used to use SaniFlush and quit using it for the acid content. I teach a lot of young trappers and don't want them messing with or trying to dispose of the remaining fluid.

PM's Answered..

This method is not the fastest but I believe the safest method I have found. It is just how I do it. Tom

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#1461849 - 08/18/09 07:32 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: tmrschessie]
tmrschessie Offline



Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7552
Loc: South Central Nebraska age 64
By the way the traps rusted fine over night and are in the dye pot now. I took some pictures but will make a seperate post on the dying and waxing. Thanks for all the input. Tom

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#1461893 - 08/18/09 07:51 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: tmrschessie]
last chance Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 233
Loc: kansas
that's how I do it to tom.

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#1461899 - 08/18/09 07:54 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: DanielE]
Mister ED Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 587
Loc: West Michigan
Viniger is acetic acid, and I'm quite sure it is available stronger than 5%. I believe Rusty and Jonathan are correct in that it is safety reasons that standard for Viniger is at 5%.

One thing to keep in mind, soaking in a strong acid can cause springs to become brittle. Never hear about it when used in regards to traps ... but when restoring autos, it is a no-no to soak springs or any suspension/steering parts.

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#1461925 - 08/18/09 08:08 PM Re: Cleaning dirty traps (picture heavy) [Re: Mister ED]
tmrschessie Offline



Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7552
Loc: South Central Nebraska age 64
Here is the label and bottle. Tom





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