As some of you may know from a previous post I have a group of fox living close by so I have decided to take advantage of the situation and "do some testing" and share the results.

What would you like to see tested?

How they react to a scent posts using different urine.
1) Coyote Urine
2) Grey fox urine
3) Bobcat urine

id like to see the attraction of just straight ground castor

Nice post Hobbie!!

I would like to see you make a set (minus the trap, of course) without taking any precautions about hiding your human scent. Use bare hands, take a leak next to the set, etc. and see if they will still work the set. We always hear about how animals are shy about human scent, and I want to see if human scent really does make a difference in animal behavior. You might want to see if they will work the "set" the first night, or if not, how long it will take before they finally come around to working it.

gloves or no gloves

50yds. From here........



High traffic.........



A hand made hole baited with a peeler (lower center).....



Hand sifted sand and a generous amount of human urine........



The time was 15:14...........Check back tomorrow for an update.

you will have to tell em what a peeler is and we both know that peeler will be so rotten by tomorrow morning it will make your eyes water...

Peeler...Isn't that a blue crab that is loosing his shell (not quite a soft shell yet)?

If your close to your home the human scent won't bother them a bit.They expect it there.I have deer in my yard that I can walk up to, but if I go across the street to their yard they run like any other wild deer.Go to a more remote area and try peeing at a set also to see if theres a difference.That nice sand ground should tell you the whole story if they stand back.

Every canine's reaction to humans and/or human scent will vary from animal to animal and region to region depending upon each individual animal's conditioning. I won't be impressed by the experiment regardless of which way the results show, positive or negative or somewhere in between. However, in the long run a "cleaner trapper is a more productive trapper". I have personally performed many such testings over the years, watching animals from blinds for my wife's wildlife photography and from watching mock sets from my deer blind each deer season. In my wilderness type area at least, when a set is made using reasonable scent control the animals genmerally aproach, stop look around a moment and right straight on in. When I deliberately contaminated the area with sweat, urine, etc fox and coyote both would appear to get all nervous about the set, some would just plain leave, others would fidget areound, circle the set, go to higher ground to look around sometimes leaving after a considerable evaluation from a distance or many times aproaching the set in some haphazard way by crawling on thier stomach, trying to examine it from the rear or side and always looking fearful of lowering thier heads to do a thorough close up examination. My results of the exeriments taught me that if one want straight forward set approachs and a higher percentage of set acceptance they will use reasonable precautions. By reasonable precautions I mean no spitting, urinating, spending excessive time in the set area tracking around, wear reasonably clean clothing, gloves, footwear and if they kneel at a set use a cloth or pad to prevent making an intense human and foreign scent spot directly in front of a set. That is my opinion. Asa

Hope ya don't mind Asa....I put it in my signature......

Clean means organized as well....Looking from a distance and bringing all that you need to the set....Organized.... so you can get in and out......

I am a "squatter"......and i think asa is right on on the "intense human roadblock that can accrue....especially on a werry or pressured animal..

Ok, the heck with it.........

LOL!

Don't let my thoughts stop you from the experiment Hobbie Trapper, doing experiments like that can be very educational and fun to do!

Vinke wrote...Clean means organized as well....Looking from a distance and bringing all that you need to the set....Organized.... so you can get in and out......

Well said Vinke, thanks for that input!
Probably the most important factor in areas where it is a significant factor is organization. After stopping at a potential set area I take my traps and gear to a point where I can survey the area analyzing it for set backings and anticipating the likely approach and travel routes of the coyotes. After picking set spots I go directly to that spot, spread out a kneeling cloth, quickly put in a set and straight to the next spot without having to traipse and track all over the set area leaving one scent trail after another. Professional dog trainers once explained to me how when one is walking that dead skin cells are falling down thier pant legs like snow leaving a blatant long lasting trail for a canine to follow and that by tucking one's pant legs inside of boots reduces those skin cells to a minimum making it more difficult for tracking dogs. After ataining that knowledge I began getting out of my truck and pulling on a pair of clean zipper ovrershoes and tucking in my pant legs while in the set area. It only takes a moment to pull on and off the overshoes and I noted a marked increase in production plus first night catches. The grass and weeds are always wet in my country so I keep my feet dry as a bonus. Asa

Anything this morning Hobbie??

Once while turkey hunting on a farm that had alot of human traffic I walked a couple of hundred yards down the edge of a field in grass that was half way up my calf.Just after daylight I watched a coyote cross the field heading towards the edge I walked down. When it got to where I had walked,it stopped and backed up.It then ran parallel to my tracks,every few yards it would angle in toward my path then angle back out into the field.It eventually ran past me then entered the woods.It did not want to cross where I had walked.I was wearing rubber boots with my pants tucked in.Granted I was'nt deer hunting so I was'nt using scent control.If human scent is encountered where the animal is not used to it they will react negatively most of the time.I won't say always as every animal is different and everyone has their own expeiences.

Good example clear lake trapp!
I have seen many times by tracks in the snow where coyotes and even red fox have turned and run when they come to my tracks and trails. I have seen coyote fight thier way through 4 feet of snow by paraleling my snow shoe trail rather than get in the packed trail where the going would be easy. Other coyotes can't wait to get in the trail. The coyotes age and conditioning to humans probably is the determining factor but I believe a majority of any animal species are inherently fearful of humans. Asa

Sorry folks I had a fishing trip planned this morning and just got home.

I checked the "set" about 05:50 and they walked all over the area like they owned it. "Peeler" was gone and it appears the urine didn't even phase them.



I did have a trail cam out and I have 7-5min clips. As soon as I figure out how to get them from the chip to my computer I will have a more in-depth analysis.

I thought I could get by bare handed, but I figured urinating on the set would have scared them off for sure.

I just figured if "skin cells" will cause them to pause..........urine would have a more dramatic effect on them.

I'm learning too much, I'd hate to lose my "hobbie" status. LOL!

Wow, I did not expect that at all...

Nick...Shush...Fox are very smart animals... They just have a soft spot for Phil...

To answer a question with a question Nick, why does just about every animal species run like H when they get a whiff or sight of a human??? For example, last Winter I saw sitting all together by a hole in the ice an otter, trumpeter swan and a Canadian goose. One would think the fowl would be fearful of that otter but the only thing they were concerned about was my wife pointing her camera at them, the otter ducked in the hole and the goose and swan flew as fast as they could to get out of there. Asa

My wife has that affect on me. If I get a head start I can usually outrun her, but sometimes she catches me, lol.

For a LONG time, people are the predator that kills at a distance, all the time and kill everything. The village is always hungry and we store what we cannot eat today. The dodo bird did not know this and was wiped out. Every animal today does know this, especialy if we point anything at them!

whatever them peelers are i want a quart made into lure at the very same taint as the fox encountered well boosted with the usual musks and glands and well freeze proofed by christmass please, you can keep the urine though. Just kidding, good experiment.

I think allot of it is area dependent and population density is a big factor. I have a trail behind the house that leads to the snowmobile trail. There are always a few coyotes that pass through every few weeks all year long. I had some weasel boxes back there last winter that I would check daily. I would check them before noon everyday. One day I noticed coyote tracks coming from the west side of the trail. It was at a walk until it hit my snowshoe trail (I back tracked it before it hit my trail and it was just walking through the hardwoods) and you could clearly see the front feet sprawled out in my snowshoe tracks and it turned and ran for a good 75 yards before slowing to a trot. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this behavior up here. Even though I’m new to trapping, I’m not new to animal behavior and I have hunted coyotes and fox out west and out east. So my .02 is to do what works for you in your area but keep and open mind to it.

My .02

Been there and done that lure years ago. The skunk and possum catch will amaze you. The other animal catch leaves a lot to be desired. Female crabs use a pheromone to attract the males when they are about to shed and be available to mate. I thought they might be useful as a lure ingredient but boy was I wrong.

I think it was a good test of critter tolerance vs. desire for the food. thanks for putting it up Hobbie.

I'm by no means the "Cleanest" of trappers. However, I'm doing decent for the small line I run. Most of my misses or unworked sets are due to my own mistakes in location or position.

Keep the tests rolling Hobbie. We all stand to learn something.

Well said Northwind! For being relatively new to trapping you have done real well with canines because you are a thorough guy who pays attention to details and pay attention what the animals are telling you. That particular coyote told you he is not fond of human presence! Some say a coyote knows when you are there and when you are not so human scent makes no difference! In your experience you were not there but he wasn't sure so he run for 75 yards! I have seen this same thing more times than I can recall. Thanks for your input Northwind! Asa

PS- Coyotes in my country are 10 times more likely to run from human tracks and odors than fox.

you guys are getting into a fight or flight discussion now.

when a critter is working your set it isn't in either of those modes....

the reason animals run from you is mainly because they haven't fully identified you.... all critters have a bubble of safety

I have had reds dig up the snow where I have pee'd. Nevertheless, I think each individual animal is different from another. I've caught reds in exposed marten traps and also tangled with some reds that were amazingly wary. Nothing to lose by being clean but I don't think it's an absolute neccessity. Wolves now, that's a different story.

IMO This little experiment holds no weight. It should by no strech of the imagination be held as have having a single drop credibility.

Nor should any experiment, taken by itself, be considered conclusive. I think this has value just from the fact that you might see behavior that no one expects. We don't know what we don't know. Thanks for the effort Hobbie.

Well I hope nobody comes away from this thinking "just set steel in the ground anyway you feel".

I can't ID which foxes in the video are which, so I'm guessing these guys are young and dumb. Mom may have been out on a "real hunt" and these guys were just bored and happened upon a meal without knowledge of what could have happened to them.

..........but it was fun!

I will try a few other things and post the results. No need to argue or debate just some things to think about.

HobbieTrapper pm sent

Thanks for the posts Hobietrapper and Asa!

Hobbie Trapper wrote...Well I hope nobody comes away from this thinking "just set steel in the ground anyway you feel".

I'm glad you added that Hobbie, well said, thanks!

To use JFK's statement as an analogy "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" I have always said to my past students "ask not what you can eliminate and get away with and still catch some animals but ask one's self what I can add to my procedure to be a more proficient and efficient trapper". The thing that separates the wide descrepancy in total harvest of trappers in the same area from zero harvest to being a legend in one's area is all in paying attention to all details both large and small. There is no big well kept secret of the pros to speak of, besides proper location its almost all in many small details adding up a maximum harvest one by one by one. Asa

Next experiment is.............

to see if they have associated my urine with a possible meal.

I will be spreading human urine in a "clean" place and video to capture their reaction.

FYI..........I will be conducting experiment #1 again but on a piece of land that has very little human traffic (during rifle deer season only).

Stay tuned for those results as well.

Results of "just urine" are as follows...........

Circled 10yds but came no closer...........

Maybe try eating some of them peelers? That might up the human urine attraction.

LOL!

As I pointed out in an earlier post, leaving excessive human scent didn't always cause a set avoidance but it most always made the canine work the set differently. Set circleing was very common, going to higher ground to look around, approaching the set nervously from the backside, digging in from the side, etc. Coyotes were almost always extremely wary but there were some that seemed to pay no attention to the excessive human or foreign scents and wasted no time commitiong to the set and examining the lure. Red fox were way more accepting of the human scents but there were still a considerable number that become extremely nervous and jittery. Fox in my region are more used living in close proximity with humans than coyotes so that may be the reason. Being a lure maker I would like to say that a great lure will overcome suspicion and make a canine risk his hide but that is not the case. I have experimented with about 40 different formulas provided to me by some of America's most proficient trappers and none would entice a too wary canine to commit to the set. Better lures appeared to keep them in the area longer thinking about commiting but eventually the more wary ones would move on without commitment anyway. Again, I'm sure the results of such testing would show a wide variation from region to region. I may be wrong but I have thought about the subject and conversed with trappers who have trapped in a number of regions and I have come to the conclusion that the population of the canine in a given area vs the availability of food supply may be the the factor that causes such variables. Here in upper Michigan the canine numbers are modest and the food supply is unending Summer and Winter so perhaps they can afford to be more disciminating about risking thier hide so to speak. Asa