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#125938 - 03/07/07 05:41 PM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: Paul Dobbins]
CoonDuke Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/06
Even pure water will slightly preserve flesh if it is totally immersed in it...

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#127101 - 03/08/07 10:37 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: CoonDuke]
Anonymous
Unregistered

Thanks for all info. To tell the truth I wasn't expecting so many or such through answers, thanks again!

~ADC~

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#127104 - 03/08/07 10:39 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: ]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Loc: Eastern NC
Indeed ADC...a very good read.

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#127111 - 03/08/07 10:41 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: ]
whitetailaddict Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: WI
I really enjoy these lure/bait threads. Very good answers. What would I mix, with Castor and other ingredients to give it a "waterproof" base, as I've heard. Will Glycerin do the trick? Will a fresh castor made lure work, or would it be better to let it age, if so how long? Thanks. WTA

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#127119 - 03/08/07 10:44 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: whitetailaddict]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Loc: Eastern NC
Originally Posted By: whitetailaddict
I really enjoy these lure/bait threads. Very good answers. What would I mix, with Castor and other ingredients to give it a "waterproof" base, as I've heard. Will Glycerin do the trick? Will a fresh castor made lure work, or would it be better to let it age, if so how long? Thanks. WTA


I'm sure there will be better answers from more authoritive sources....but I have done well with Vaseline for a waterproof castor base, and Glycol for a regular base.

My castor is usually only three or so days old when I make beaver lure.

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#127122 - 03/08/07 10:47 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: DanielE]
whitetailaddict Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: WI
I should have worded that differentely. If I grind castor, should it be dried or fresh? Why?

Once my castor is ground, and I add my ingredients, would it be better to let it "age"? Or would it work equally as well immediately. Thanks. WTA

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#127128 - 03/08/07 10:51 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: whitetailaddict]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Loc: Eastern NC
WTA....There was a thread on aged castor vs fresh a while ago. It may be in the archives under water trapping.

I use it fresh. I only dry a couple days to make it easier to handle. I use it on the line immediately....no ageing.

Which would be better? Well...you'll have to leave that to the experts! It catches beaver the way I mentioned though!


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#127131 - 03/08/07 10:53 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: DanielE]
whitetailaddict Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: WI
Thanks jar,

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#127159 - 03/08/07 11:25 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: DanielE]
Bob Jameson Offline


Registered: 12/25/06
Loc: SW Pa
Waterproofing a product is not hard to do. But the other side of the coin is to allow the lure to breathe and have the odor permeate from the application origin. In some attempts to water proof a lure you can actually hurt a lures potential by retarding the evaporation odor letting properties of that lure by holding it too firmly.

Vaseline and lanolin will act simularly in retarding odor release from a lure if used in to great a volume. Especially when the temps drop. In warmer use climates these bases work nicely but when exposed to the 20 degree point and lower it seals alot of odors and retards odor release signficantly.

A good mix of actives and lanolin or vaseline will work nicely once you have cut the base material such as mentioned to still allow good product odor release.This will still provide good "waterproofing properties" to a lure without over kill.

If you make a batch of lure up stick it in the freezer over nite and check the viscosity after 24 hrs. If it is very rigid and difficult to remove for application you have added too much vaseline or lanolin and it needs to be cut with another product to reduce the viscosity.

A well worked waterproof lure will be somewhat thick and fluid in summer temps 70 degrees and above but should begin to stiffen at 40 degrees and reach its maximum vicosity at 32degrees or so. If not alot of a lures scent trail potential will be considerably hampered due to the increased viscosity of that lure.

Water proof abilities of a lure I believe are misunderstood. Trace elements found in most lures will last a long time even after taking a heavy rain and arid temperatures and still have calling potential. Especially talking canines.

Talking water animals in many cases the set is destroyed and the lure is reapplied anyways so true water proof characteristics are not really that essential.

In using a call lure that is applied in a suspended fashion this type of lure development is essential and desired. Other applications require a combination of holding the scent together which is usually attained with proper aging and lure development of that specific product.
_________________________
www.jamesonsultrablend.com
www.wcsbatcontrol.com

Wildlife Pest Control Services

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#127170 - 03/08/07 11:32 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: Bob Jameson]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Loc: Eastern NC
Great info BOB! Thanks!

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#127173 - 03/08/07 11:34 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: Bob Jameson]
victoria vixen Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Loc: Bahamas
Oh Bob, how you do go on....(LOL) All kidding aside...very nicely done and very informative. This is why people buy lure from you....you know your stuff! when it comes to lures. Thanks for sharing!


Edited by Paul Dobbins (03/08/07 02:06 PM)

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#127174 - 03/08/07 11:34 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: DanielE]
whitetailaddict Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: WI
Yes, thanks for the great information, Bob. WTA

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#127188 - 03/08/07 11:54 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: whitetailaddict]
DanielE Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/06
Loc: Eastern NC
Archive material in the making!

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#127191 - 03/08/07 11:56 AM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: whitetailaddict]
Anonymous
Unregistered

Bob wrote "If it is very rigid and difficult to remove for application you have added too much vaseline or lanolin and it needs to be cut with another product to reduce the viscosity."

Could you elaborate on what "other products" you could use and any amounts/lanolin or vaseline? or is that a "trade secret"?

Thanks for the info you've given thus far.

~ADC~

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#127202 - 03/08/07 12:13 PM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: ]
whitetailaddict Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: WI
I was wondering the exact same thing, ADC

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#127241 - 03/08/07 12:41 PM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: whitetailaddict]
Bob Jameson Offline


Registered: 12/25/06
Loc: SW Pa
One needs to find the right combination via experimentation as to the right viscosity consistency of a product.This is not a simple matter and not easily done without some experience. The appropriate compatable solubles i.e.such as mineral oil, glycol and glycerine are a few products that can be used to reduce viscosity in waterproof base development.One must find the right combo to cause compatable merging of the bases as to avoid stratification or separation of the ingredients.

However in many such processes heat must be applied to merge the products and fluidty of the materials must be reached to establish this end result. Then only after cooling has occured can one determine if the ratio you have mixed is adequate or if you need to start over or make adjustments in your formula.

It is not an easy task at times this lure formulation business as one will find as he gets more and more involved.Alot of material will be lost or potentially wasted at times due to experimentation. A constant challenge it is.

I wish all good luck as trial and error was the role I had to take 30 years ago and I am still finding challenges that I face as I push on for further improvements in product development.

Paul and Asa can both certainly stand tall and appreciate the merits and frustration that accompanies the life as a formulator.
_________________________
www.jamesonsultrablend.com
www.wcsbatcontrol.com

Wildlife Pest Control Services

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#127253 - 03/08/07 12:47 PM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: Bob Jameson]
whitetailaddict Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: WI
Bob, thank you for the info, and I hope you understand, I am not asking for recipes or anthing of that nature. I also understand the years of trial and error, you went through (and saved us), just by answering the questions, thank-you again. WTA

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#127347 - 03/08/07 02:09 PM Re: Propylene Glycol VS. Glycerin in bait/lure making [Re: whitetailaddict]
KYBOY Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: East, Kentucky
Personally I like glycerin for making my beaver lure. In fact I use it in all my lures to some extent.
_________________________
Deep in the heart of Appalachia....

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