Could someone please explain in which circumstances you'd choose Propylene Glycol over Glycerin in bait/lure making and vise-versa? (Assuming they are both the same price of course.)

Do they have added benefits aside from anti-freezing properties? Are there differences in the benefits between the two mentioned?

Thank you in advance.

~ADC~

Both glycerine and propylene glycol are identical when used as an odorless anti-freeze in lures and urines. The glycerine is very thick and sticky like honey or mollases and gets real stiff in extrememly cold weather. It gives a lure good stickyness and body but perhaps in real cold climates that body would be too much. Propylene glycol is thin like syrup and might be better for a cold weather lure. Also, I believe glycol is a much better tincturing agent and one might want to leach or tincture out all of the odor they can from certain ingredients while the lure is ageing. Ace

That is basically what I thought Asa but wanted to verify it before passing on bad info. Thank you again for your time.

~ADC~

I always felt too that "glycol" will change the odor of urine much more than will glycerine. Some thing to consider.

Asa,

A good beaver trapper that is my neighbor told me to slice up dried beaver castors, mixed with sac oil, and glycol (at leat i think it was glycol and not glycerine) is this correct and a good mixture or not. he had his mixed runny. i bought some from kaatz bros and his was real thick. does this matter. i like the runny stuff to apply, put it in a squeeze bottle and give it a squirt

Glycol it's more from petroleum product, it's more use for base lure with no human's fear like marten,fisher,lynx,
for shy critter like canine (wolf) , beaver,mink i think glycerine it's better, I dont have any trouble with glycerin in the north of canada

I have tried propylene as anti-freeze on my wolf sets this year and they never have work them.Oderless?Use propylene as a base for shy critter like wolf,i'am not sure it's a good thing to do.

I asked the company rep ( we get 55 gal. barrels) what the food grade PG is that we purchase. He informed me it is a sugar base antifreeze. LM

Propylene glycol is NOT odorless and in my opinion has very limited use in lure formulation. I have had much more success using pure grain alcahol as a tincturing agent and glycerin as an anti freeze.

Ron asked...A good beaver trapper that is my neighbor told me to slice up dried beaver castors, mixed with sac oil, and glycol (at leat i think it was glycol and not glycerine) is this correct and a good mixture or not.

The beaver trapper probably recommended glycol as a means of tincturing maximum odor from the castors, not as an anti-freeze. That would be correct.

I agree with Dave and others, glycerine is the best for usage in lures and urines as an anti-freeze or lure base. For a few dollars per gallon difference I am not going to risk animal set avoidance by using glycol even though I can't detect any odor in the pure clear stuff.. Also, I agree with dave that alcolhol is a much more thorough tincturing agent than glycol. I can't get pure grain alcolhol here in Michigan so use 100 proof vodka for tincturing with good results. Ace

...and 100 proof vodka is good with orange juice....(LOL)

But, isn't glycol a preservative also, where glycerin is not?

Trapper7: I believe both glycol and glycerine have only minor preserving qualities. Their purpose in lures and urines is as an anti-freeze, not a preservative. Ace

I used glycerine in about a one to five ratio to muskrat blood in a plastic squeeze bottle. I use it to freshen up my bait in weasel boxes in cold weather. Works great and the consistancy is just about right at that ratio.(along with Asa's weasel lure of course)

Asa,

Ron asked...A good beaver trapper that is my neighbor told me to slice up dried beaver castors, mixed with sac oil, and glycol (at leat i think it was glycol and not glycerine) is this correct and a good mixture or not.

The beaver trapper probably recommended glycol as a means of tincturing maximum odor from the castors, not as an anti-freeze. That would be correct.

So i use glycol, do i add any thing else to this beaver lure or is that all i need. should it be runny or thick substance.

There are clear differences I've found between glycol and glycerine, and a couple similarities..

Glycol has more solvent properties than glycerine.

Glycerine seems more inert as it pertains to reactions with other ingredients in lure formulations.

Mold will grow in formulations where glycerine is used and will not with glycol.

Glycol is better than glycerine for tincturing some items, even better than alcohol for some items. (There is another item that is better for many items than either glycol or alcohol, but I've been sworn to secrecy - lol)

Both glycerine and glycol have very limited preservative qualities.

Perhaps (limited) but I have taken fresh fish and fresh meat and put it in a glass jar. Then filled it up with glycol, and I mean the good stuff, and stired it and/ or shook it upside down every time I think about it, when I'm in the shed. A year later.. That fish or meat is as fresh as the day I put it in there! Does that sound like "limited qualities" to you???? Sure doesn't to me! I have to wonder how many have tried it and how many times you've done it? Because I've done it a lot and have been really happy with the results. Like i said, the GOOD stuff (pure) not the cheap or cut as some sell.

There are purposes for each of these products. Used as a 100% base with no dilution they both have some preservation qualities however not many use it as a 100% base product.It is used in formulation as a percentage of the formula.

Glycol will cause a considerable reaction when used with (uric acid products) such as urine as an ingredient in formulation where glycerine will not.Some other ingredients will also react with glycol causing a gaseous build up that may boil over a batch as soon as it is hit with a drill to stir the mix.

This is a very interesting topic as both products have their uses but some things work much better together then others.It does take time, experience and experimentation to derive some the most compatable facts regarding these 2 products.

Thanks Bob, nice to see you back again!
Victoria

VV - "Does that sound like "limited qualities" to you????"

You play with it enough and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I've never used Glycol or Glycerine that has been cut, so I have no idea what that is, or how it works.

Thanks for all info. To tell the truth I wasn't expecting so many or such through answers, thanks again!

~ADC~

Indeed ADC...a very good read.

I really enjoy these lure/bait threads. Very good answers. What would I mix, with Castor and other ingredients to give it a "waterproof" base, as I've heard. Will Glycerin do the trick? Will a fresh castor made lure work, or would it be better to let it age, if so how long? Thanks. WTA

I'm sure there will be better answers from more authoritive sources....but I have done well with Vaseline for a waterproof castor base, and Glycol for a regular base.

My castor is usually only three or so days old when I make beaver lure.

I should have worded that differentely. If I grind castor, should it be dried or fresh? Why?

Once my castor is ground, and I add my ingredients, would it be better to let it "age"? Or would it work equally as well immediately. Thanks. WTA

WTA....There was a thread on aged castor vs fresh a while ago. It may be in the archives under water trapping.

I use it fresh. I only dry a couple days to make it easier to handle. I use it on the line immediately....no ageing.

Which would be better? Well...you'll have to leave that to the experts! It catches beaver the way I mentioned though!

Thanks jar,

Waterproofing a product is not hard to do. But the other side of the coin is to allow the lure to breathe and have the odor permeate from the application origin. In some attempts to water proof a lure you can actually hurt a lures potential by retarding the evaporation odor letting properties of that lure by holding it too firmly.

Vaseline and lanolin will act simularly in retarding odor release from a lure if used in to great a volume. Especially when the temps drop. In warmer use climates these bases work nicely but when exposed to the 20 degree point and lower it seals alot of odors and retards odor release signficantly.

A good mix of actives and lanolin or vaseline will work nicely once you have cut the base material such as mentioned to still allow good product odor release.This will still provide good "waterproofing properties" to a lure without over kill.

If you make a batch of lure up stick it in the freezer over nite and check the viscosity after 24 hrs. If it is very rigid and difficult to remove for application you have added too much vaseline or lanolin and it needs to be cut with another product to reduce the viscosity.

A well worked waterproof lure will be somewhat thick and fluid in summer temps 70 degrees and above but should begin to stiffen at 40 degrees and reach its maximum vicosity at 32degrees or so. If not alot of a lures scent trail potential will be considerably hampered due to the increased viscosity of that lure.

Water proof abilities of a lure I believe are misunderstood. Trace elements found in most lures will last a long time even after taking a heavy rain and arid temperatures and still have calling potential. Especially talking canines.

Talking water animals in many cases the set is destroyed and the lure is reapplied anyways so true water proof characteristics are not really that essential.

In using a call lure that is applied in a suspended fashion this type of lure development is essential and desired. Other applications require a combination of holding the scent together which is usually attained with proper aging and lure development of that specific product.

Great info BOB! Thanks!

Oh Bob, how you do go on....(LOL) All kidding aside...very nicely done and very informative. This is why people buy lure from you....you know your stuff! when it comes to lures. Thanks for sharing!

Yes, thanks for the great information, Bob. WTA

Archive material in the making!

Bob wrote "If it is very rigid and difficult to remove for application you have added too much vaseline or lanolin and it needs to be cut with another product to reduce the viscosity."

Could you elaborate on what "other products" you could use and any amounts/lanolin or vaseline? or is that a "trade secret"?

Thanks for the info you've given thus far.

~ADC~

I was wondering the exact same thing, ADC

One needs to find the right combination via experimentation as to the right viscosity consistency of a product.This is not a simple matter and not easily done without some experience. The appropriate compatable solubles i.e.such as mineral oil, glycol and glycerine are a few products that can be used to reduce viscosity in waterproof base development.One must find the right combo to cause compatable merging of the bases as to avoid stratification or separation of the ingredients.

However in many such processes heat must be applied to merge the products and fluidty of the materials must be reached to establish this end result. Then only after cooling has occured can one determine if the ratio you have mixed is adequate or if you need to start over or make adjustments in your formula.

It is not an easy task at times this lure formulation business as one will find as he gets more and more involved.Alot of material will be lost or potentially wasted at times due to experimentation. A constant challenge it is.

I wish all good luck as trial and error was the role I had to take 30 years ago and I am still finding challenges that I face as I push on for further improvements in product development.

Paul and Asa can both certainly stand tall and appreciate the merits and frustration that accompanies the life as a formulator.

Bob, thank you for the info, and I hope you understand, I am not asking for recipes or anthing of that nature. I also understand the years of trial and error, you went through (and saved us), just by answering the questions, thank-you again. WTA

Personally I like glycerin for making my beaver lure. In fact I use it in all my lures to some extent.