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#1129354 - 01/16/09 01:29 PM Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak.
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/

Exposed: The Secret Animal Rights Agenda Of America’s Next Regulatory Czar

Exposed: The Secret Animal Rights Agenda Of America’s Next Regulatory Czar

Barack Obama’s pick for “regulatory czar,” Harvard Law School Professor Cass Sunstein, may be the incoming president’s most popular appointment so far. Judging from his resume -- best-selling author, “pre-eminent legal scholar of our time,” and an endorsement from The Wall Street Journal -- we can almost understand why. Almost. Because as we’re telling the media today, there’s one troubling portion of the new Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) Administrator’s C.V. that has seems to have flown under everyone’s radar: Cass Sunstein is a radical animal rights activist.

Don’t believe us? Sunstein has made no secret of his devotion to the cause of establishing legal “rights” for livestock, wildlife, and pets. “[T]here should be extensive regulation of the use of animals in entertainment, scientific experiments, and agriculture,” Sunstein wrote in a 2002 working paper while at the University of Chicago Law school.

“Extensive regulation of the use of animals.” That's PETA-speak for using government to get everything PETA and the Humane Society of the United States can't get through gentle pressure or not-so-gentle coercion. Not exactly the kind of thing American ranchers, restaurateurs, hunters, and biomedical researchers (to say nothing of ordinary consumers) would like to hear from their next “regulatory czar.”

A version of the same paper also appeared as the introduction to Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions, a 2004 book that Sunstein co-edited with then-girlfriend Martha Nussbaum. In that book, Sunstein set out an ambitious plan to give animals the legal “right” to file lawsuits. We're not joking:

“[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients’ behalf.”

It doesn't end there. Sunstein delivered a keynote speech at Harvard University’s 2007 “Facing Animals” conference. (Click here to watch the video; his speech starts around 39:00.) Keep in mind that as OIRA Administrator, Sunstein will have the political authority to implement a massive federal government overhaul. Consider this tidbit:

“We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now.”

Sunstein also argued in favor of “eliminating current practices such as greyhound racing, cosmetic testing, and meat eating, most controversially.”

He concluded his Harvard speech by expressing his “more ambitious animating concern” that the current treatment of livestock and other animals should be considered “a form of unconscionable barbarity not the same as, but in many ways morally akin to, slavery and mass extermination of human beings.” Sound familiar?

As the individual about to assume “the most important position that Americans know nothing about,” Sunstein owes the public an honest appraisal of his animal rights goals before taking office. Will the next four years be a dream-come-true for anti-meat, anti-hunting, and anti-everything-else radicals? Time will tell. For now, meat lovers might want to stock their freezers.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

Top
#1129375 - 01/16/09 01:41 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Mira Trapper]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia


Why the Obama White House May Go to the Dogs
(and the Cows, and the Deer, and the Lab Rats)

Forget about Barack Obama's income tax-challenged Treasury Secretary or the conflict of interest controversy at the State Department. The most outrageous Obama appointee just might be Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who's flying under everyone's radar and into a job that hardly anyone has ever heard of.

Cass Sunstein is slated to run the White House's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. He's going to be America's chief "regulatory czar." And shocking new research from the Center for Consumer Freedom shows that he's a dedicated animal-rights zealot.
The 8 Biggest Celebrity Financial Mistakes

Hold on to your sirloin.

The anti-meat nuts at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and the anti-hunting lobbyists at the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) used to think that putting Dennis Kucinich in the White House would be their best hope of wielding real power in Washington . But even they didn't see Cass Sunstein coming. Sunstein has the legal mind of Chief Justice John Roberts and the animal-rights agenda of PETA president Ingrid Newkirk.

We're not talking about animal welfare---the idea of making sure we don't cause animals unnecessary suffering when we use them for food, clothing, entertainment, or lifesaving medical research. Sunstein believes in animal rights---the notion that people shouldn't "own" or "use" animals at all, for any purpose, no matter what the stakes are for mankind.

Cancer research? Not if lab rats are used against their will.

Hunting? Absolutely forbidden, especially if it's for sport.

Leather jackets? The cows need their skin more that you do.

Seeing-eye dogs? They're nothing more than slaves.

And that T-bone steak? Fuhgeddaboudit! If animals have any "rights" at all, the right to not be your dinner is at the top of the list.

All of this makes perfect sense to Cass Sunstein, who organized the "Chicago Project on Animal Treatment Principles" at the University of Chicago. He will soon have the political authority to push for a radical overhaul of the way the federal government regulates everything Americans do with animals.

How radical? Sunstein supports making sport hunting illegal, and completely phasing out the consumption of meat. And if that's not nutty enough, he's actually in favor of giving animals the legal right to sue people.

Think we're joking? Think again. Here's what Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book, Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions:

"[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives ... Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."

Conservative commentators have been openly fretting that Barack Obama may try to turn welfare entitlements and single-payer healthcare into a new Bill of Rights. But Cass Sunstein threatens to expand the whole concept of "rights" to include the rest of the animal kingdom.

That fish wriggling at the end of your hook could soon be a federal offense (if the fish doesn't file a lawsuit first). Don't say we didn't warn you.

Find out more at ConsumerFreedom.com.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

Top
#1129444 - 01/16/09 02:11 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Mira Trapper]
corky Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Three Lakes,WI 63
Sickening but not unexpected. Attorney General Holder with his proven anti 2nd amendment agenda will hurt us even more.
_________________________
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings when I called you stupid. I really thought you already knew.

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#1129451 - 01/16/09 02:13 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Mira Trapper]
DAVE SALYS-CWCP Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/23/08
Loc: sneakin' up behind ya
Some of you guys wanted bamama now you've got him and the rest of us have to pay the price for your blindness. It's gonna be a long four years.
_________________________
HUMOR:a comical quality or the ability to express what is funny.
HUMMER:a large hulking useless vehicle driven by arrogant coyote stake pounders.

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#1129517 - 01/16/09 02:47 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: DAVE SALYS-CWCP]
scuffler Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/09/08
Loc: ORYGUN
Time to fight?????

If not now when????
_________________________
"Islam is a religion of blood"

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#1129621 - 01/16/09 03:36 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: scuffler]
mark81560 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/08
Loc: middle wisconsin
every ones to afraid to fight scuffler. but ill be fightin even if by my self

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#1129659 - 01/16/09 03:53 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: mark81560]
bglong Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/14/07
Loc: West Virginia
CHANGE!

The country wanted it, I hope they aren't stupid enough to accept it!

Sorry if this offends some here who can't understand why the only sane position for us is conservative. The deck is being stacked and I hope everyone wakes up.
_________________________
Never happier than when I smell just a little skunky.

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#1129667 - 01/16/09 04:01 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: mark81560]
Crowkiller Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: AR
OK, so it's time to fight. This thing is going to get bad quickly. Salizar, Holter etc. Where do we go. Who is our voice? Who will get the message out? All we have is the NRA and it will have it's own fights to handle. We're headed for a train wreck.

Crowkiller


Edited by Crowkiller (01/16/09 04:02 PM)

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#1129681 - 01/16/09 04:07 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: bglong]
DAVE SALYS-CWCP Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/23/08
Loc: sneakin' up behind ya
Originally Posted By: bglong
CHANGE!

The country wanted it, I hope they aren't stupid enough to accept it!

Sorry if this offends some here who can't understand why the only sane position for us is conservative. The deck is being stacked and I hope everyone wakes up.

I'LL KEEP MY MONEY,MY FREEDOM AND MY GUNS! YOU CAN KEEP THE "CHANGE"
_________________________
HUMOR:a comical quality or the ability to express what is funny.
HUMMER:a large hulking useless vehicle driven by arrogant coyote stake pounders.

Top
#1129699 - 01/16/09 04:15 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Crowkiller]
canvasback Offline
"Exempt"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: NY
My GSP has plenty of rights:

1. The right to free medical care for the rest of his life ( Ok, I pay for it grin)

2. The right to all the Meaty Bones he wants.

3. The right to a free biscuit each time we go through the drive thru at the bank.

4. The right to watch all the free cable tv he wants.

5. The right to have his own spot on the couch!

6. and my favorite!!! His own personal "Get out of the pound and bring GSP home anytime GSP gets lost for FREE" card from the Dog Warden. (Dog Warden is a good friend !! )grin

Yes, my dog has it good! grin
_________________________
Live each day to the fullest.

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#1129761 - 01/16/09 04:42 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: canvasback]
thrstyunderwater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Logan Utah
Delete this post. NO POLITICS
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Pat, as usual, you are right....


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#1129812 - 01/16/09 04:59 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
Nextyeartrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: richmond virginia
thrsty

paul has said a couple times if it relates to sportsman aka trapping gun law etc. The post are okay I think.

anyways more bad news about obama
_________________________
what you do today you got to sleep with tonight

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#1129820 - 01/16/09 05:02 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
This appointment directly affects trappers ,hunters,farmers and Ostriches whose heads are buried in the sand.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#1129904 - 01/16/09 05:44 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Mira Trapper]
bglong Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/14/07
Loc: West Virginia
LOL Mira...was that directed at anyone in particular?
_________________________
Never happier than when I smell just a little skunky.

Top
#1129915 - 01/16/09 05:48 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Mira Trapper]
Crowkiller Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: AR
Right on Mira Trapper. Waxman, who now chairs a committee on interstate commerce, conducted hearings for his pals at PETA and HSUS, in 1978 or 1979,(I forget the date, eventhough I was there), that would have banned the shipment of furs or traps across state lines. Be assured he will do this again because he is beholding to his pal who keep him in office. Henry Waxman is from Hollywood, CA. That, alone, tells you all you need to know.

Now, the stage is set for a host of antis to come to the forefront. It is their time to stand in the sun light and be heard.

Holder, anti gun. Attorney General.

Salizar, anti hunter, drill, trap...Will head Department of Interior. Hand picked by a PETA officers, and former Head of US Fish and Wildlife.

But the list goes on.

We're headed for a train wreck. But, Who pray to God, who will come to the aid of those with common sense?

Where will the people who live close to the land have representing us?

The Trappers. The gun owners. But also the commercial fishermen, the loggers, the miners, the farmers and ranchers, the oil drillers, the whalers and sealers, the hunting and fishing guides, even the Game and Fish agencies, race tracks, the circuses, the zoos, the rodeos, and let's not forget medical research.

Yeah, the train wreck is going to happen. That you can take to the bank. One issue at a time. Yet, we'll set here like sheep to the slaughter....waiting...just waiting.

Crowkiller

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#1129930 - 01/16/09 05:53 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: bglong]
Michigander Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/20/08
Loc: Michigan
just think how many times those antis got dropped on their head when they were babies... i dont worry about the taking away of meat because thats what runs our country!!! but taking away hunting might be a problem because they will twist every fact to make it sound like we torchure them or something. i hate animal rights activists!!!!
_________________________

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#1129936 - 01/16/09 05:56 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Michigander]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Quote:
i dont worry about the taking away of meat because thats what runs our country


They don't have to take away your meat. All they have to do is regulate it so much that the cost of raising it will make it too expensive for you to eat. Don't believe me? Look what they did in California with the chickens. Every egg producer in California is now making plans to get out of the state before the new law goes into effect and they go bankrupt.

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#1129991 - 01/16/09 06:18 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
And that is the true story of control by incremental design.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

Top
#1129993 - 01/16/09 06:18 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
Crowkiller Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: AR
Buck, They say s--t runs down hill. California is on top of the hill. The chicken issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Look at trapping issues and gun ownership there. We set here with our head in sand and wait for the next shoe to drop. Well, they are going to start dropping within months...one after another. With the Windy City clown running the country, and those in that cornor at the helm, we're in for trouble. Yet, we are a voice in the wilderness.

Crowkiller

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#1129996 - 01/16/09 06:19 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: bglong]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Originally Posted By: bglong
LOL Mira...was that directed at anyone in particular?


Just Trappers, Hunters, Farmers and Ostriches who might come up for air every once in a while..
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

Top
#1130145 - 01/16/09 07:04 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Mira Trapper]
thrstyunderwater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Logan Utah
That article is dumb. They don't provide sources. Google Cass Sunstein. He doesn't have a priority to screw farmers, hunters, ect over. Please someone show me a source besides this one article showing this guy is some crazy bunny hugger.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Pat, as usual, you are right....


Top
#1130197 - 01/16/09 07:31 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
Crowkiller Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: AR
OK Thristy check this out:

Why the Obama White House May Go to the Dogs
(and the Cows, and the Deer, and the Lab Rats)

Forget about Barack Obama's income tax-challenged Treasury Secretary or the conflict of interest controversy at the State Department. The most outrageous Obama appointee just might be Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who's flying under everyone's radar and into a job that hardly anyone has ever heard of.

Cass Sunstein is slated to run the White House's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. He's going to be America's chief "regulatory czar." And shocking new research from the Center for Consumer Freedom shows that he's a dedicated animal-rights zealot.
The 8 Biggest Celebrity Financial Mistakes

Hold on to your sirloin.

The anti-meat nuts at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and the anti-hunting lobbyists at the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) used to think that putting Dennis Kucinich in the White House would be their best hope of wielding real power in Washington . But even they didn't see Cass Sunstein coming. Sunstein has the legal mind of Chief Justice John Roberts and the animal-rights agenda of PETA president Ingrid Newkirk.

We're not talking about animal welfare---the idea of making sure we don't cause animals unnecessary suffering when we use them for food, clothing, entertainment, or lifesaving medical research. Sunstein believes in animal rights---the notion that people shouldn't "own" or "use" animals at all, for any purpose, no matter what the stakes are for mankind.

Cancer research? Not if lab rats are used against their will.

Hunting? Absolutely forbidden, especially if it's for sport.

Leather jackets? The cows need their skin more that you do.

Seeing-eye dogs? They're nothing more than slaves.

And that T-bone steak? Fuhgeddaboudit! If animals have any "rights" at all, the right to not be your dinner is at the top of the list.

All of this makes perfect sense to Cass Sunstein, who organized the "Chicago Project on Animal Treatment Principles" at the University of Chicago. He will soon have the political authority to push for a radical overhaul of the way the federal government regulates everything Americans do with animals.

How radical? Sunstein supports making sport hunting illegal, and completely phasing out the consumption of meat. And if that's not nutty enough, he's actually in favor of giving animals the legal right to sue people.

Think we're joking? Think again. Here's what Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book, Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions:

"[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives ... Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."

Conservative commentators have been openly fretting that Barack Obama may try to turn welfare entitlements and single-payer healthcare into a new Bill of Rights. But Cass Sunstein threatens to expand the whole concept of "rights" to include the rest of the animal kingdom.

That fish wriggling at the end of your hook could soon be a federal offense (if the fish doesn't file a lawsuit first). Don't say we didn't warn you.

Find out more at ConsumerFreedom.com.

Top
#1130204 - 01/16/09 07:35 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Crowkiller]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Animal Rights
Current Debates and New Directions Edited by Cass R. Sunstein and Martha C. Nussbaum Add to Cart ISBN13: 9780195305104
ISBN10: 0195305108
paper, 352 pages Oct 2005, In Stock Price:$19.99 (01) Shipping Details Description Reviews Product Details Author Information Table of Contents Description
Millions of people live with cats, dogs, and other pets, which they treat as members of their families. But through their daily behavior, people who love those pets, and greatly care about their welfare, help ensure short and painful lives for millions, even billions of animals that cannot easily be distinguished from dogs and cats. Today, the overwhelming percentage of animals with whom Westerners interact are raised for food. Countless animals endure lives of relentless misery and die often torturous deaths.

The use of animals by human beings, often for important human purposes, has forced uncomfortable questions to center stage: Should people change their behavior? Should the law promote animal welfare? Should animals have legal rights? Should animals continue to be counted as "property"? What reforms make sense?

Cass Sunstein and Martha Nussbaum bring together an all-star cast of contributors to explore the legal and political issues that underlie the campaign for animal rights and the opposition to it. Addressing ethical questions about ownership, protection against unjustified suffering, and the ability of animals to make their own choices free from human control, the authors offer numerous different perspectives on animal rights and animal welfare. They show that whatever one's ultimate conclusions, the relationship between human beings and nonhuman animals is being fundamentally rethought. This book offers a state-of-the-art treatment of that rethinking.

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#1130205 - 01/16/09 07:36 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Animal Rights without Controversy

Jeffrey Leslie
University of Chicago - Law School

Cass R. Sunstein
Harvard University - Harvard Law School

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#1130207 - 01/16/09 07:37 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
BuckNE
Unregistered

DALLAS MORNING NEWS

Is Obama appointing an 'animal rights zealot' to high office?
11:59 AM Fri, Jan 16, 2009 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
Jeffrey Weiss E-mail News tips
Perhaps discussion about the ethical treatment of animals is going to be higher on the new administration's agenda than one might think? On an average day my e-box is filled with partisan screeds from a broad spectrum. And usually I roll my eyes at the more extreme claims and go on with my day. For instance, how about a headline that claims "New Radical White House Appointee: No Hunting, Meat, or Medical Testing?" Laughably implausible, yes? As it turns out: No. Overstated, to be sure, but not as far as you'd think.

The fellow in question is Harvard professor Cass R. Sunstein, tagged by Obama to be administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, which is part of the White House Office of Management and Budget. A quick Google turned up a paper he published in 2002 titled The Rights of Animals: A Very Short Primer.

Head to the jump for excerpts.

On appropriate legal restrictions on the treatment of animals:


We should focus attention not only on the "enforcement gap," but on the areas where current law offers little or no protection. In short, the law should impose further regulation on hunting, scientific experiments, entertainment, and (above all) farming to ensure against unnecessary animal suffering. It is easy to imagine a set of initiatives that would do a great deal here, and indeed European nations have moved in just this direction.

Require low-suffering farming and ban recreational hunting:



If we focus on suffering, as I believe that we should, it is not necessarily impermissible to kill animals and use them for food; but it is entirely impermissible to be indifferent to their interests while they are alive. So too for other animals in farms, even or perhaps especially if they are being used for the benefit of human beings. If sheep are going to be used to create clothing, their conditions must be conducive to their welfare. We might ban hunting altogether, at least if its sole purpose is human recreation. (Should animals be hunted and killed simply because people enjoy hunting and killing them? The issue might be different if hunting and killing could be justified as having important functions, such as control of populations or protection of human beings against animal violence.)


Put animal cruelty in the same moral context as human slavery:


The problem is that most of the time, the interests of animals are not counted at all--and that once they are counted, many of our practices cannot possibly be justified. I believe that in the long-run, our willingness to subject animals to unjustified suffering will be seem a form of unconscionable barbarity--not the same as, but in many ways morally akin to, slavery and the mass extermination of human beings.

To be fair, he also makes the case that medical experiments can be justified. And knocks down the idea that animals should be recognized as possessing the same kind of autonomy as people. And it's not as if he's been appointed as Secretary of Agriculture or Interior, where his animal-rights positions might be directly relevant.

But boy, howdy, I'd pay to see a confirmation hearing with this guy where some of these issues got aired.

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#1130210 - 01/16/09 07:37 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Had enough, Thirsty?

Top
#1130220 - 01/16/09 07:41 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
Crowkiller Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: AR
OK Thristy check this out:

Why the Obama White House May Go to the Dogs
(and the Cows, and the Deer, and the Lab Rats)

Forget about Barack Obama's income tax-challenged Treasury Secretary or the conflict of interest controversy at the State Department. The most outrageous Obama appointee just might be Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who's flying under everyone's radar and into a job that hardly anyone has ever heard of.

Cass Sunstein is slated to run the White House's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. He's going to be America's chief "regulatory czar." And shocking new research from the Center for Consumer Freedom shows that he's a dedicated animal-rights zealot.
The 8 Biggest Celebrity Financial Mistakes

Hold on to your sirloin.

The anti-meat nuts at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and the anti-hunting lobbyists at the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) used to think that putting Dennis Kucinich in the White House would be their best hope of wielding real power in Washington . But even they didn't see Cass Sunstein coming. Sunstein has the legal mind of Chief Justice John Roberts and the animal-rights agenda of PETA president Ingrid Newkirk.

We're not talking about animal welfare---the idea of making sure we don't cause animals unnecessary suffering when we use them for food, clothing, entertainment, or lifesaving medical research. Sunstein believes in animal rights---the notion that people shouldn't "own" or "use" animals at all, for any purpose, no matter what the stakes are for mankind.

Cancer research? Not if lab rats are used against their will.

Hunting? Absolutely forbidden, especially if it's for sport.

Leather jackets? The cows need their skin more that you do.

Seeing-eye dogs? They're nothing more than slaves.

And that T-bone steak? Fuhgeddaboudit! If animals have any "rights" at all, the right to not be your dinner is at the top of the list.

All of this makes perfect sense to Cass Sunstein, who organized the "Chicago Project on Animal Treatment Principles" at the University of Chicago. He will soon have the political authority to push for a radical overhaul of the way the federal government regulates everything Americans do with animals.

How radical? Sunstein supports making sport hunting illegal, and completely phasing out the consumption of meat. And if that's not nutty enough, he's actually in favor of giving animals the legal right to sue people.

Think we're joking? Think again. Here's what Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book, Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions:

"[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives ... Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."

Conservative commentators have been openly fretting that Barack Obama may try to turn welfare entitlements and single-payer healthcare into a new Bill of Rights. But Cass Sunstein threatens to expand the whole concept of "rights" to include the rest of the animal kingdom.

That fish wriggling at the end of your hook could soon be a federal offense (if the fish doesn't file a lawsuit first). Don't say we didn't warn you.

Find out more at ConsumerFreedom.com.

Top
#1130221 - 01/16/09 07:41 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Here you go, Thirsty. In Sunstein's own words.

The Rights of Animals: A Very Short Primer

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/academics/publiclaw/resources/30.crs.animals.pdf

Increased Regulation of Hunting, Science, Farming, and More
But I think that we should go further. We should focus attention not only on the
“enforcement gap,” but on the areas where current law offers little or no protection. In
short, the law should impose further regulation on hunting, scientific experiments,
entertainment, and (above all) farming to ensure against unnecessary animal suffering. It
is easy to imagine a set of initiatives that would do a great deal here, and indeed
European nations have moved in just this direction. There are many possibilities.

Top
#1130223 - 01/16/09 07:42 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
newears Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/10/07
Loc: Ohio
I keep asking why the Obamaites voted for him and no one can answer, perhaps the antis I guess or those against gun rights. Now BO is trying to take credit for the jobs that were signed off from Bush. His first lie was using public funds and then used private funds. A man is as good as his word in my book.

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#1130225 - 01/16/09 07:44 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: newears]
BuckNE
Unregistered

I don't want to make this about Obama. He's gonna be President. But only a fool would pretend the records of his appointees don't exist.

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#1130288 - 01/16/09 08:04 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
thrstyunderwater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Logan Utah
Look, this guy is no Ted Nugent. He still isn't the spokesperson for PETA. He's a philosopher on animal rights, not an animal rights activist. If you read nothing else below, read the conclusion. I don't think he's that far out there.

Guess what folks, only ~5% of Americans hunt and trap. The other ~95% of people out there deserve representation too.


Many people who urge radical
steps—who think, for example, that people should not eat meat—do so because they
believe that without such steps, the level of animal suffering will be unacceptably severe.

Of course a legal ban on meat-eating would be extremely radical, and like prohibition, it
would undoubtedly create black markets and have a set of bad, and huge, side-effects.
But the principle seems clear: People should be much less inclined to eat meat if their
refusal to do so would prevent significant suffering.


Conclusion
Every reasonable person believes in animal rights. Even the sharpest critics of
animal rights support the anticruelty laws. I have suggested that the simple moral
judgment behind these laws is that animal suffering matters, and that this judgment
supports a significant amount of reform. Most modestly, private suits should be permitted
to prevent illegal cruelty and neglect. There is no good reason to give public officials a
monopoly on enforcement; that monopoly is a recipe for continued illegality. Less
modestly, anticruelty laws should be extended to areas that are now exempt from them,
including scientific experiments and farming. There is no good reason to permit the level
of suffering that is now being experienced by millions, even billions of living creatures.
I have also raised doubts about the radical idea that animals deserve to have
“autonomy,” understood as a right to be free from human control and use. In my view,
the real questions involves animal welfare and suffering, and human control and use may
be compatible with decent lives for animals. But the emphasis on suffering, and on decent
lives, itself has significant implications. Of course it is appropriate to consider human
interests in the balance, and sometimes our interests will outweigh those of other animals.
The problem is that most of the time, the interests of animals are not counted at all—and
that once they are counted, many of our practices cannot possibly be justified. I believe
that in the long-run, our willingness to subject animals to unjustified suffering will be
seem a form of unconscionable barbarity—not the same as, but in many ways morally
akin to, slavery and the mass extermination of human beings.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Pat, as usual, you are right....


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#1130299 - 01/16/09 08:09 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Quote:
I don't think he's that far out there.



This is a quote from Sunstein. "Should animals be hunted and killed simply because people enjoy
hunting and killing them? The issue might be different if hunting and killing could be
justified as having important functions, such as control of populations or protection of
human beings against animal violence."

You can read much more here.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/academics/publiclaw/resources/30.crs.animals.pdf

You turning into an anti, Thirsty? Or are you just reluctant to admit the Messiah made a bad decision?

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#1130318 - 01/16/09 08:29 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
thrstyunderwater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Logan Utah
Have you ever met a philosopher?

"Should animals be hunted and killed simply because people enjoy
hunting and killing them? The issue might be different if hunting and killing could be
justified as having important functions, such as control of populations or protection of
human beings against animal violence."

The key would there is should. It's a question. We can answer that question with scientific data, showing that hunting and trapping IS defendable. Both do provide population control and protection of humans.

What about the rest of this guys background. Besides writing ONE working paper on animal rights what else has he done with his career? Has he spoken on PETA's behalf? Has he done a commercial for ALF? Is he even a vegetarian himself? And what about the rest of his career and his stances on every other issue besides animal welfare?

And why is it that Obama haters call him the Messiah? Really, I have no idea. I can promise you that I haven't ever mixed him up with Jesus. Have you?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Pat, as usual, you are right....


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#1130322 - 01/16/09 08:31 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Thirsty, his philosphy on animal rights is just as important as his past history on the issue.

And as far as other issues, this is an outdoor forum, and this discussion is about his PHILOSOPHY and his possible future impact on our outdoor pursuits.

But if you have sold your soul, there's nothing we can do to help you.

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#1130327 - 01/16/09 08:35 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
thrstyunderwater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Logan Utah
I can assure you that I haven't sold my soul yet, I'm still employed.

"I have also raised doubts about the radical idea that animals deserve to have
“autonomy,” understood as a right to be free from human control and use."

I'm not really to worried about this guy.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Pat, as usual, you are right....


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#1130330 - 01/16/09 08:36 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Of course you aren't. Despite his paper that you so easily dismiss sounds like it was written by Pacelle. But, you would NEVER criticize an Obama appointment, now would you?

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#1130343 - 01/16/09 08:40 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
BuckNE
Unregistered

I have a feeling that if Obama appointed Ingrid Newkirk as Secretary of the Interior, you would defend his decision.

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#1130388 - 01/16/09 08:56 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: thrstyunderwater]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Quote:
Besides writing ONE working paper on animal rights what else has he done with his career?


He has written MANY articles and blogs in support of the AR movement. This is from one of his articles in The New Republic.

"To be sure, animals are sometimes treated well and protected against suffering. But often they are not. In circuses, whips, chains, metal hooks, and electric prods "are all regularly used for training." About 40 million animals are killed each year so that their pelts can be turned into clothing. Many of these animals spend all of their lives in truly deplorable conditions"

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#1130440 - 01/16/09 09:12 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
2poor Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Lake Mille Lacs , MN
Just more proof stupid people should not be allowed to vote !
_________________________







It is a lazy man that can't find his wife a second job !

http://mooseriverlures.com/

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#1130476 - 01/16/09 09:22 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: 2poor]
Hupurest
Unregistered

Keep drinking the kool aid..
he hasn't done a thing he promised yet..
and he keeps backing off his promises..

he was all for gun legislation...he made stements about it in California about people in pennslyvania, remeber??
he has appointed some of the farthest left leaning people he could..
We are in for a world of crap.. seriously..
thirsty if you are such an animal lover, then quit killing pigs for $8 hr..
you haven't spoken one bad word about B. Hussein, ever, yet can't come up with a reason to support him or any of his cabinet picks...

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#1130499 - 01/16/09 09:31 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
Nightwish Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/30/07
Loc: PA
A lot of wild biased assumptions here...but none the less, Dems DO align themsleves with ARs and the greenies.

The real question is, how many DEMs are pro-hutning and pro-gun to a point they will step up and defend. Prolly not many...but that'd be worth knowing...

I was no fan of either...nor this Congress then or now...
_________________________
www.nightwish.com
www.johnwcrawford.com

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#1130564 - 01/16/09 09:50 PM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: Nightwish]
HunterInShadows Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: velva north dakota
I guess we will just have to go on a rampage a few days before any of these laws go into effect and make everything extinct.
_________________________
KIDS! They are what we live for!


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#1131098 - 01/17/09 08:20 AM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
upnorthwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/19/07
Loc: WI
Conservitive politicians only have themselves to blame, they lost touch with the common folks. I hope they learn from this!

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#1131171 - 01/17/09 08:55 AM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: ]
newears Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/10/07
Loc: Ohio
Since he was able to buy his way into office with no experience he is now putting others in charge that also have no experience. We can't expect less then nothing in the way trappers and hunters are treated. Pray for our country, have never experienced a bankrupt country before. Some one has to pay the bills.

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#1131195 - 01/17/09 09:03 AM Re: Another bad choice?? Times are getting more bleak. [Re: newears]
BuckNE
Unregistered

Well, after the first couple of cabinet picks I was hoping he'd be pretty moderate in the way he governs, but the last few he's chosen are extreme far left crackpots. But they haven't been confirmed by the Senate, yet. I urge everyone to write your Senators and express your outrage at this particular appointment. This guy is definitely an anti, and has edited books promoting the anti cause, blogged promoting the anti cause, and written for news publications promoting the anti cause. There are much better choices Obama could make for sportsmen than this guy. Almost anyone would be better.

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