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#225590 - 06/09/07 04:18 PM Re: To catch an otter... [Re: otterman]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	I have no problem with Duke bodygrips. I like the BMI's a little better, and that was what I had and used for a long time; but I bought 5 dozen more Duke 280's and 220's before last season and caught over 50 otter in them with no trap problems or malfunctions. It remains to be seen if they will hold up and maintain there strength as long as the BMI's have.
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#225606 - 06/09/07 04:45 PM Re: To catch an otter... [Re: otterman]
smalltimetrapper smalltimetrapper trapper Registered: 01/09/07 Posts: 243 Loc: Interior Alaska	I've noticed that with Duke traps also, they always seem to generate discussion both positive and negative. I've got a couple duke 110s, the loop that connects spring to jaws is open enough to come off the jaws, I had to tighten it up. Some guys like them, even the bigger ones for wolverine, as posted earlier on another thread. I will look into the BMI 280s. _________________________ If Barrack is elected, America will become an obamanation.
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#225650 - 06/09/07 05:48 PM Re: To catch an otter... [Re: smalltimetrapper]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	I don't think anyone will deny that the only thing the Dukes have going for them is the price. But that certainly is a factor for most of us. For me, they work satisfactorily (so far) hence they do the same job for less. Besides the bigger ones, I have 10 dozen Duke 120s and yes occasionally a spring comes off and such things. But I will happily put up with that for $52 a dozen. Also, on the 120's the only other trap even remotely competetive pricewise is the Bridger, and I DON'T like them.
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#227976 - 06/12/07 08:01 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: fishermann222]
Hornhunter Hornhunter trapper Registered: 12/29/06 Posts: 115 Loc: Maine	I'm no otter trapper, but did manage to catch one in a beaver snare this past winter. Not many otter in this area, but it's not uncommon for beaver trappers the come up with a half dozen otter in their snare sets.
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#228036 - 06/12/07 09:16 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Hornhunter]
white17 white17 "General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington" trapper Registered: 03/17/07 Posts: 5070 Loc: McGrath, AK	Yep, thats the way a lot of them are caought here too. A nice bonus. _________________________ Mean As Nails
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#228088 - 06/12/07 10:21 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: white17]
otterman otterman trapper Registered: 12/24/06 Posts: 1504 Loc: SW Alaska	I read once about a Canadian trapper who set for otter using a typical snare set up for beaver but used both beaver belly meat tied to the dry pole and tinfoil shaped fish as bait anybody else read this seems like it was in the Trapper several years ago? As I remmeber the guy claimed to get quite a few otter this way _________________________ It is interesting how much a man will do to suceed and how much more he will doto make sure he has excuses for failure when sucess isa simple process
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#228094 - 06/12/07 10:37 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: otterman]
white17 white17 "General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington" trapper Registered: 03/17/07 Posts: 5070 Loc: McGrath, AK	I seem to recall reading about a guy that wound beaver guts onto the trigger of a 330 and put it under the ice. Seems like it might be hard to keep the stuff on the trigger. _________________________ Mean As Nails
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#228143 - 06/12/07 11:57 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: white17]
Kusko Kusko "Mr. Mayor" trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2086 Loc: Bethel, AK	I have one of those old YK Delta Trapping manuals and in it, they describe using a pole set with snares and fish wired to the pole for otter. They also used fish on the trigger of a 330. _________________________ "There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." Linus Van Pelt
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#228156 - 06/12/07 12:14 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Kusko]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	A guy from the Alaska Trapping Forum claims to use the rapalla fish lure minus the hooks on his trigger and takes a few otter. I bought the lures but never did try them. I always wanted to try in an area that was hard to fence due to deep water. Someday. _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#228365 - 06/12/07 04:51 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	I have used the foil wrapped around a conibear trigger submerged in a pool. Also the foil wrapped rock in the bottom of a bucket guarded with a 220 and sunk so that the opening of the bucket is up. In my experience, those kind of sets work occasionally if there is nothing better you can come up with, but I think that good blind sets are MUCH better.
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#228387 - 06/12/07 05:21 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: trapperjoeAK]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	I have to agree with you Joe the blind sets in the right location is the best bet. Just hate it when you see a huge toilet or sign and are in an areal that just can't be set up well for a variety of reasons. Man I missed otter trapping last year. I have to work on the skin sewing market etc and find an outlet. Just too many of those things out here not to be getting after them. But for $40 -$50 each it just seems too low. If I could get $80-$100. I think I could I could come up with 50-75 if I went after them. I got 30 last time just fooling around on weekends. The country out here is just a pile of natural narrow leads from pond to pond etc that just beg for an otter set. No one targets them and especially now with the price coming down. The other thing about otter is they are much easier to tan than beaver. They turn out consistently good. I would even consider tanning and selling them to sewers. $30 tanning on top. I wonder if a guy took a few samples of tanned otters to the craft fairs etc to show the skin sewers what you can produce if a guy could get some orders. I think I will start to carry one with me just for advertizement. Between 300 marten sets and a 200 otter sets it could keep a guy busy. I been tossing around the idea of making a skinning machine that would work while out on the line. a bipod or tripod affair that you could carry in a basket sled that would use a little 12 volt winch to strip an otter off the carcass in the field before they started to freeze up. If I could stay out and camp on the otter line and skin while I went I would be much farther ahead. I would like to speed up the time it takes to peel one off so I could get it done in less time while out in the cold on the trail. If a g;uy was picking up 5-8 otter at a wak it would be worth it. Not too mention lightening the load. Ideas anyone. A horizontal skinning machine that could run off a 12 volt or boat wind up winch. Couldn't be that hard to come up with something. Something that works well might take some trial and error. Edited by Family Trapper (06/12/07 05:32 PM) _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#229209 - 06/13/07 12:16 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
otterman otterman trapper Registered: 12/24/06 Posts: 1504 Loc: SW Alaska	Len you keep up and your going to need a 20 foot sled to haul all the gadgets :)Why not just use a piece of wire and hang it from a tree wack the tail bone off and leave it inside to deal with at fleshing time. Then rough skin the rest since your not a clean skinner anyway now you have saved time and weight and dont have to stop and set up a skinning machine. It seems like I always did my trapping in the regular work hours and skining was done at the camp at night. 200 otter sets would be an insane amount if you are chopping or diggin them out to check. Add 300 marten sets to that and you will need a week to check the line but I know all you got is time (I'm Jealous). If I was trapping your country I would set up the main line for marten much like I use to for beaver then once it was up I would take a few days to add sets for everything else along that line why pass up a $20 fox or a $100 cat if your in the area. I mean it is about the fun but making $$ where you can sure would seem to help keep the family convinced you should keep going every winter $\:\)$ _________________________ It is interesting how much a man will do to suceed and how much more he will doto make sure he has excuses for failure when sucess isa simple process
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#229324 - 06/13/07 01:37 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: otterman]
Kusko Kusko "Mr. Mayor" trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2086 Loc: Bethel, AK	I would agree with Todd. I'd get your main line going (which I'm sure is still out there) for marten and then fill in with whatever else as you go. This is what I do with fox. I have my main line for them and then if time allows, I'll trap muskrats or beaver along the way. Marten are so easy to skin and flesh compared to a fatty fox or otter. Won't a lot of your critters be frozen anyway? It would be nice if you find a really good spot up there and build a small cabin and then put your tent on the other end and you'll have nice set up with a ready made spot to get warm, do your skinning, get some sleep. _________________________ "There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." Linus Van Pelt
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#229443 - 06/13/07 02:26 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: otterman]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Otterman It all has to go into my 10 foot Hickory. I know I am always trying to think too hard. But I have thought about this one some. Remember I don't have a house or a skinning shed to come home to. A lot of my otter country has no trees for one. At below zero temps the otter freezing up by the end of the day would mean I most likey couldn't skin that night in the tent without some thawing of feet and head-YUK. Peeling them on site would be great. But even rough skinning a cased animal is nothing like rough skinning a beaver. Their tough. Especially otter. If I could strip them off the carcass on site it would be worth a little extra weight. I think even if you could anchor them to a willow or something and have a wind up winch on the back of the machine to pull with might work. Finding and taking the time to rough skin from a tree would really add time away from my day. I have done that and it still takes a while. The tail seems to be the fastest part for me to rough out. They pull off pretty easy once you get going. All the fat is left on the tail however. 200 otter sets. I ran around 50 on my weekend line. I think 200 would be doable on a long line over a couple three days. I would check every two weeks. With otter as you know making two or three sets at a location is the way to go. 200 individual sets would also be a number of snares as I can't afford a lot more conibears. No shortage of places to set out here if I get out in Nov to find them prior to a big dump of snow and blow. A lot of my water doesn't freeze too thick. The blackfish and current in a lot of my areas keep the ice at bay. For some reason we have quite a few warm water areas that only get to maybe a foot or less all winter. Less if you insulate for sure. I also use the contiunity meter. If it is not set off I don't bother to check. I can run a lot more sets that way. With them insulated I get little ice build up in a lot of my spots. As far as other fur on my marten line I didn't have a lot of other animals . A few lynx showed up during breeding season but I saw nothing early. I know where they come through now and will be ready for them next year. Almost zero fox too. Very few. Most of the fox and lynx are along the Yukon. I would have great lynx trapping on an otter line. But then I have to deal with regular checks. At least weekly and I can't manage that and do marten too. The areas are in opposite directions. The marten and otter really go well with an extended check and that is what I will most likely focus on. Both can go two weeks with out problems. I can get on the lynx around St. Mary's and check at night when I am working my tech job. Plenty of them around. What ever I do will be a concentrated effort of about a two month period of time this year. Fast and furious. The wife says no more 4 months without coming home this year. It was too long I agree. I just kept trying to play catch up. Even though a lot of that time was spent on my tech job. I learned a lot this last season about managing things here in St. Mary's I think this year could be pretty good. But putting together something to strip an otter on the line is still on my mind!! Kusko I posted after your reply. The thing is my otter, beaver, fox area is really separate from my marten line. There is a few otter and beaver but nothing to compare to the delta area if a guy wants to get fur. It is really two separate lines to run. My time out here is all to uncertain to be building cabins. But it would be nice. I found the kifaru to be plenty comfy however. As far as my main marten line still being out there yes and know. My traps are stashed out there but not at sets. I am going to really rework my line into sets I can leave hanging in place like Takotna does and others. With the great snow conditions I had last year I set a lot of my sets in places I could never get to in Dec. So most all of my sets will be new and somewhat permanent this year. Edited by Family Trapper (06/13/07 04:22 PM) _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#230236 - 06/14/07 10:32 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
otterman otterman trapper Registered: 12/24/06 Posts: 1504 Loc: SW Alaska	Len all I can say is two weeks is too long even up here with our conditions. If you have one bad week of weather you are then 3 weeks off the line it will cost you fur. Most people check once a week simply because of logistics. I personally check every 3- 4 days and sometimes more 70 miles on snowmachine after work. If I ever go more then 7 days I am pulling my hair out doing weather dances. I am sorry but I can not agree with a planned 2 week check even for under the ice otter _________________________ It is interesting how much a man will do to suceed and how much more he will doto make sure he has excuses for failure when sucess isa simple process
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#230286 - 06/14/07 11:33 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: otterman]
Kusko Kusko "Mr. Mayor" trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2086 Loc: Bethel, AK	I think Len is blessed with pretty stable weather up there unlike you and I Todd. My fox and marten line can be done w/o decent snow, but it is tough. Last year in January when we had NO snow, Len was up there grinning like a gopher in soft dirt, riding around in GREAT conditions while I was down here scrambling trying to pull all of my stuff. _________________________ "There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." Linus Van Pelt
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#230323 - 06/14/07 12:24 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Kusko]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Otterman I always planned a week check on my otter and marten as well. It was through just what you said happening, snow storms, something coming up etc when I was working that a few times lead me to leave them out two. I then started to do that on alternating parts of my line that were out of the way. I have never had a problem. I will have a flexible enough schedule that I will be able to get out when needed however. That is the big key. If I think the check will be needed I will go. I know that I can let things go two weeks if I need to but will shoot for more like 10 days most likely. A week is my prefered check for sure but I have never lost an otter in a two week check under ice. They will come out of rigor in that time and be a limp noodle but that doesn't seem to be a problem. A guy just can't go longer. Trying to balance two animail specific lines, that are in opposite directions out here, if I do it, would take some logistics and long check would play into that I am sure. What ever seems to be working the best would be what I will shoot for. My concentration will be on getting sets out. From what I saw last year it was first runs that made the difference on my marten. I plan to have a lot of first runs this year. Marten hang fine in the freezer and with the tip up poles I use now they hang well away from harm for the most part. Had a wolverine pull one down. My concentration will be on getting traps out and checking them when I can within that two week window. It just didn't pay to keep working the same line last year. Maybe I will see changes this year since I will be on them earlier as Takotna suggested but I am still going to concentrate my efforts on getting sets out. We will get a shot of warm weather for about a week seems in Jan or Feb the last two years. Usually improves the conditions but as Kusko stated it it pretty stable weather other than that. Last year we had awesome cold and snow until April. Even in our week of warm monsoon it only improved the travel condions of our deep snow. The beauty of my schedule is flexible and I have time to do what I need to to make it work unlike balancing things on weekends. _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#230343 - 06/14/07 12:42 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
otterman otterman trapper Registered: 12/24/06 Posts: 1504 Loc: SW Alaska	Ok as I understood it you planned on leaving the line 2 weeks and planning that IMO no matter where you are is too long. If you plan 7 days or so then you get bad weather like a thaw or extreem cold sitting tight wont hurt but 2 weeks and then having to sit tight for another week would. Len how long does it take you to run all your sets? When I trapped like you in the past I ran all day skinned the next ran a second line the 3rd day and skinned the 4th 5th day back to line 1 it worked kept the fur numbers manageable but I didn't have more then 15 marten on my best year as we had so few along my line I had to multispeiceis trap to make it profitable. Is that or something similar an option with a base camp in the middle of the two lines if you get my train of thought? _________________________ It is interesting how much a man will do to suceed and how much more he will doto make sure he has excuses for failure when sucess isa simple process
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#230528 - 06/14/07 03:37 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: otterman]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	The two week window is the outside end for sure and a guy will have to work within that. But I throw that out there because it gives me the most options as long as I stay within it. Certainly a shorter check early on will be prudent. But after the cream is taken off 2 -4 week returns on an otter before they return seems to be the normal. I can't answer how long it will take as the only experience with otter has been 50 or so sets on weekends while teaching. Trap Sat and Sunday for otter and beaver on the weekends and skin for the next few evenings after work. What I would do now is to rough skin beaver and otter and back haul them to Anch for 28cents/lb, periodically and store in a freezer in Homer till I get home. Last year I made over 200 marten sets and had probably 175 set at one time. Had they cooperated it would have been great. ;0( I will shoot for over 300 sets out at any given time this year. I don't seem to be too good at working mulit species at one time when I am concentrating on getting a lot of sets out. Wolverine yes on the marten line but too much gear to pack and think about to worry about otter, fox and lynx etc on my marten line. Too far for now and I can't set foot traps that need a 3-5 day check. I also can't afford to start filling up my sled or snowmachine with snared and frozen fox and lynx. Wolverine I will deal with for the money. Now closer to St. Mary's I can cash in on fox, lynx, beaver more this year now that I have my longer line logistics worked out. The first year for any big endeavor is always a a cross between a crap shoot and circus. I am glad that I thought big and outside the box last year as I really learned a lot about what I could get away with and what was a waste of time. Had I not shot for the moon I would have been left far more disappointed than I was. Not sure just what I will get away with this year but I will shoot for the moon for now and plan. If it all comes together so be it. But I know I will be way farther ahead than I was last year. Doing all this out here where I don't have a home base anymore is a huge challenge in its self. _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#232070 - 06/16/07 07:22 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	Well, in my experience otter are pretty much invincible. I allways try for a one week or less check, but due to unavoidable acts of God like rivers going out or other bad weather I have had otter sit in freeze/thaw weather (not underice) for two weeks or more and come out fine. They are REALLY, REALLY tough. Belly gets green, but once you get it on the board and the hair sets it is in there. Does fine through tanning. Marten are WAYYYYY more finicky as far as spoiling goes. I got really spoiled having mechanical advantage to skin otters. Used the chain hoist in the shop and it was NICE. Really speeds things up as you can just pull that thing straight down. An electric winch would be even faster (It's in the works). If you don't mind leaving the fat on the tail, you can rough skin that in 15 seconds. After you make your cut, go to the tip of the tail and just skin out that last inch. Then grab hold of the bone with vice grips, hold the hide with your other hand and you can pull the whole thing right out. Very fast. The vicegrips also are useful on the legs. After you make your cuts and have it hanging, you can just clamp the vicegrip on the corner where the leg cut meets the foot cut and then stip the leg down with a good hard pull. Once on the front, once on the back. Also takes only seconds. Little knifework to clear the plumbing and then hook to the machine and BAM all the way to the front legs, pop them out and then skin out the head. If you are setup, it is FAST! Even if you can't get the machine, I think the vicegrips are a very good trick. (I got that idea off of Clint Locklear's video by the way.) Anyways, as marten are also pretty fast to skin, (I can roughskin an otter WAY faster then I can cleanskin a marten through the mouth though) it would seem that the only real timeconsuming task would be the otter fleshing. I know from experience that it is not much fun to get back to camp after dark and have to spend a few hours fleshing otter. And as far as that goes, if you have consistent cold temps you could allways just roll them up and let them freeze to flesh later. I did that a couple times this winter. With work and school and 15 otter looking at me, didn't have much choice but to skin, roll, bag, and freeze. Thaw them out two at a time to flesh. Since they are tougher, you have a little more grace with the thawing then you do with say beaver. Edited by trapperjoeAK (06/16/07 07:24 AM)
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#232253 - 06/16/07 12:41 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: trapperjoeAK]
Top Jimmy Top Jimmy trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1678 Loc: Alaska, USA	Joe, that is interesting that you can pull the hide off like that with the vice grips. I got one of those fleshing machines that you bolt to the floor with the vice clamps that the guys down south use for coons and coyotes, and then an electric winch. I was just going to do it so that I could keep some good tension on the hide while skinning otters and beaver. My hands just get cramps after doing a bunch and pulling all the time. If I can actually pull the hide off with that, it would be much better and faster. I will have to try it when I get all set up. Do you have any issues with the clamps ripping the fur, though? -TJ _________________________ Alaskan. . . . . . . the Net Man you don't want to have! If everything seems to be going right, you obviously don't know what going on.
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#232256 - 06/16/07 12:46 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Top Jimmy]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	No. Once you get it skinned down below the sex organs, you can stip it all the way to the front legs with the machine. No knifework needed. You just hook the vicegrip clamps (mine have flatbar welded on) to the hind legs. I have never had one rip. Ever. Otter are tough, I have torn a couple back legs when using a vicegrip to strip them rather than skin with a knife. The vicegrip that I am talking about for the tail and legs does not have flatbar, just a regular one. I only use a knife for the initial cuts, a little around the sex organs, and the head.
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#232265 - 06/16/07 01:09 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: trapperjoeAK]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Hey Joe thanks for the input. On the otter you must be talking above water? I did leave an otter set out once when I was in town on an extended trip waiting for our baby that was late. Took my window out to three weeks. I had an otter that started to slip while in a conibear under water. That is how I came up with the three weeks as a no no. But I think above water being frozen would be better. Even through a freeze thaw cycle. But being above water out here means voles and even a shorter window for checks. I set very few sets above water. The marten seem to do fine if they are frozen. The lips and eyes start to dehydrate. We have a very dry cold here. I can see in your maritime environment where you could have problems. I had a set this winter that seemed to have gotten out of the way enough that it didn't make the cut for a couple of checks. I know I had one marten that was out at least a month. It came out fine. Had some dry lips and sunken eyeballs but over the hide was fine. Thanks for the input on the otter skinning. That is what I was looking for. I hate pulling and skinning them by hand. I would way rather clean skin them like a beaver. That is the way I do all of them that I tan. The tail is pretty cool the way it will strip down. I always start at the base end and strip. Funny how it peels off at the fat meat layer. I had not thought of doing it from the end of the tail. From what you are saying looks like if I had a mechanical pulling system, boat winch, etc I could maybe make it work on the line. I wonder if I just tied off to a stable tree willow even and to the snowmachine if the weight of the snowmachine wold be enough weight to stay put while pulling an otter. Save having to make a frame of some kind. It would be horizontal which would be a little harder but better than the alternative of not skinning. Fleshing would not be done until after I ship them out to my home base in Homer. I am really tossing ideas around right now on how much to target beaver and otter vs marten. I am blessed with a gazillion beaver and a lot of otter in relatively close range compared to marten. It is just soo much work taking care of them for the return. I love to trap otter and beaver however and trapping a captive audience like beaver seems a breeze after dealing with finicky marten last season. I wonder what a guy could average on Nov/Dec Beaver. My Nov/Dec beaver are so easy to trap compared to later. Not under furred nearly as well however but I can't even begin to compare the ease of trapping compared to later in the season with deep snow and ice. Anyone reading this sell any Nov/Dec beaver in Alaska, Nafa? Local? Mine are still in the freezer. Deciding whether to tan and skin or just dry and sell. I have to make a decision when I get home and get started. Nafa Jan Wonder where Alaskan beaver would fit? Dec sale Type Offering %Sold Section Average Top Beaver 27,219 100 Eastern I $24.70 $57.00 100 Western I $23.73 $45.00 100 Section III $14.32 May sale. Beaver 102,092 97% Eastern I $ 22.14 $120.00 92% Western I $ 23.49 $ 45.00 100% Section III $ 12.60 Sure wish otter would get moving on the market. Edited by Family Trapper (06/16/07 01:13 PM) _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#232295 - 06/16/07 02:10 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	I am leary of beaver at NAFA. I would say fairly confidently that you can get $40 on the good ones locally pretty easy. I averaged just under that with early fall caught beaver. Got $40 or up for all the bigger ones. The bigger sewers around here use a LOT of beaver. If you can find the markets, most are willing to pay. I would DEFINITELY put any beaver into the Fur Rondy auction before I would send them to NAFA. First off, you have control because you can set minimums on them. Also, good beaver allways sell well there because a couple of sewers usually show up and keep the competition for them. Just as soon pay commission to ATA as to NAFA as well. It isn't tough to average $40 before commissions there. This last year, Masek and a couple other guys sent down a bunch (maybe 60-80) of REALLY nice beaver and I think they averaged around $60. Just going off of memory there. Everyone wanted them.
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#232319 - 06/16/07 02:42 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: trapperjoeAK]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Joe Good points. How does the ATA work. Do they sell in lots of a single buyer, by the pelt or graded lots? Something I would like to do would be to precontact some sewers preseason and show them some samples of what my fur looks like. Color, and quality. Tanned or dryed If I could establish a market for beaver that would give me a $40 dollar average on Dec beaver there would be about 200 less beaver on the delta by next Feb. Are these private sewers or some of the furriers in Anchorage like David Green? If you know of any of the buyers that I might contact regarding beaver let me know. Where should I start looking? Furriers in the tourist shops in Anchorage, craft shows and state fair etc? I know you have your otter markets and I don't want to cause you any marketing problems. I think I will take some fur to Anchorage and see what I can find for markets. Any tips would be appreciated. _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#232338 - 06/16/07 03:16 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
trapperjoeAK trapperjoeAK trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 740 Loc: Chugiak, AK -- Currently detai...	The people at craft shows all want tanned fur. But there is definitely interest there. That was our fall-back market for otter if we couldn't move them raw. And yeah, that is the sort of big sewer I am talking about. Talked to one of the Green's about otter and they were interested, but never actually sold any to them. They do buy raw fur though. The one thing is, that it seems to work much better to talk with these people in person rather than over the phone. Some medium sewers too, the people who have their own shops, but aren't a David Green. Even those guys, some of them use 300+ beaver a year. Beaver are actually one of the easier things to move to sewers around here. We stopped at a couple shops to make contact, and others we either met at the fur auction; or sometimes buyers come to the SCCATA meetings. The other cool thing, is that to some extent the sewers are independent of the fur market and pay you what they can afford to pay and still make a good profit. Not so much what the market is. Also, by cutting out a middle man they save a BUNCH of money. The costs involved from buying at some place like NAFA are pretty ridiculous. It is mostly a matter of doing the work and establishing the connections. (Which, to be honest, my dad did most of.) But you never really know how it will work out, I think the main guy we sold too last year originally sort of just told us that he would look at some otter because he wanted to get us in his shop so he could buy our beaver. Then he liked them a lot and ended up buying a bunch over the course of the season. The Fur-Rondy auction is essntially run as a single item auction. Each pelt is tagged and bid on as a unique item. Although, often two well matched pelts are put up at the same time to be bid on at the same time. Just to speed things up.
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#232398 - 06/16/07 04:29 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: trapperjoeAK]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Quote: The people at craft shows all want tanned fur. But there is definitely interest there Hey if the money is there I can do that too. Tanning otter is pretty consistent. Beaver on the other hand are harder and don't turn out as consistently soft as beaver. A lot more thinning of the leather is required as well. I am going to be tanning up some otter and beaver this summer and will have to show crafters. By tanning I could make money while I am home as well. _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#232632 - 06/16/07 10:37 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
otterman otterman trapper Registered: 12/24/06 Posts: 1504 Loc: SW Alaska	Len good idea and not to put a damper on it but think for a minute how much is your time for tanning worth? can you tan an otter in 2 hours? I figure my time for something like that is worth no less then $20-$25 an hour now I can send it out get it tanned and back to me for $25 pluss shipping so about 32-38 per pelt. Now the distinct disadvantage you are trusting someone else with your fur and it takes 2 months minimum generally 3 or 4 to get your fur back. So it is a toss up I go with the money out of pocket vs my time and my free time is just too valuable so I am willing to wait on the tannery Of course I dont have the advantage of being retired like you $\:\)$ But if you are selling beaver for $40 tanned you are cheating yourself $80-$100 is the going price around here for a tanned one but the market is very limited. Also some fo the sewers bigger ones are not going to want tanned hide they want them all tanned with the company of their choosing not random as there product is dependent on a certain quality of tan and they know where they can get that. Selling raw to theses guys at $40 a beaver is a better way to go IMO but having some around tanned to sell to someone in need like myslef for instance were I to run short then you would be increaseing you options and overall income. I hope this all makes sense as I seem to have gotten on three or four thoughts here Edited by otterman (06/16/07 10:43 PM) _________________________ It is interesting how much a man will do to suceed and how much more he will doto make sure he has excuses for failure when sucess isa simple process
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#232685 - 06/16/07 11:58 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: otterman]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Otterman I hear you. I would not consider tanning beaver in any quantity right now. Otter maybe. The $40 price I was talking was dry. In the village I usually charged about $40 just to tan their large beaver and could have a hide back in less than 10 days. But I would only tan green beaver. Can't do dried hides. Otter if I was tanning 20 at a time I would have less than 2 hours into tanning them. Less thinning compared to beaver and a lot more consistent tan. I love working with otter. If I had a tumber to break hides, which I would consider making using Bruce Rittel's directions he sells, I would consider tanning on a larger scale. The tanning part is realatively easy. It is the breaking down that is a bummer when doing a bunch. My initial thought is to sell beaver dried. Maybe salted and ears turned if I am marketing to Alaskan sewers that may use the head. When is the last time you saw a beaver for sale that had soft ears? Otters a mix of tanned and dried depending on the market I find. I will know more after a trip to Anchorage. The biggest reason I got into tanning was my disapointment in commercially tanned furs. Hide was too thin and the leather was alum tanned. I wanted a hide that would stand up to heavy use and getting wet repeatedly. I've been very happy with the results. But it sure is tempting to just ship beaver to Moyles or similar. My freezer could breathe a little easier if I did. Retirement _ Only in the states eyes! But working at things you enjoy is a blessing. Thanks for the input. As always it is appreciated. I am never tied of listening to others advice and comments. Edited by Family Trapper (06/17/07 12:00 AM) _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#232710 - 06/17/07 02:08 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
martentrapper martentrapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 479 Loc: Nome, Ak.	Hey Len, if your into tanning you might check out the guy who owns Frontier Tanning. Couple years ago he was wanting to retire and sell out. Last years weather/snow conditions was a fluke. Not the type of conditions one can rely on. I think, Len, that you were virtually travelling thru the marten country on a paved hiway. I assume that had something to do with the amount of line and traps you got out. Could be alot different next year. I don't think your weather is anymore stable than anywhere else. Your on the edge of interior cold, and coastal warm, plus far enough south to get the warm spells several times a winter. Shoot for the moon, but be ready to change course as conditions effect you. From what you've discussed on this otter thread, you have 4 species with the potential to give you a decent return on your trapping investment. Marten, lynx, otter, and beaver. Of those 4, I would say marten and lynx are the easiest to set for and least work to handle. I'd say that a lynx line could be run faster than an otter, or lynx/otter line. I sure envy your mixed bag country. Talked to Jeff Sutter quite a bit last winter. Really good lynx numbers about 20 miles south of Mountain. mt
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#232713 - 06/17/07 04:46 AM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: martentrapper]
Family Trapper Family Trapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1484 Loc: Trapping the Yukon Delta, Ak	Paved highway was right. And it was a fluke. Would really have been the winter to keep lynx traps working. As far as the weather being stable it can swing here for sure. But over the last 23 years I have seen where the kusko area usually looses its snow much easier. I think due to the frozen Bearing sea up hear our coastal influence all but goes away in mid winter as compared to places like Dillingham. I like to those big thaws anyway. It can really improve things for trapping if you have a lot of snow. We are not imune to the storm track however and of course it can rain for a week in Feb. It was slow going until we had the thaw last year. Lots of snow when it finally did come. But that was kind of a fluke too. Just have to take what comes along and be ready to capitalize on the situation. Become diversified. ;0) I know the area well that Jeff talked to you about. The lynx numbers are high right now in all the river and flats around it on the delta. I just don't want to get tied into a species that will dictate a weekly or less trap check for an extended time like lynx. If I choose to do beaver it will be a concentrated effort on a three-4 day rotation for a month or so. Taking time out to get a marten line working when conditions dictate. Trap beaver and once every 10 days or so run the marten line. If I leave for an extended time for home or spend more time on a marten line I would have to set off my lynx sets. Insulated beaver sets would be fine. Not great but they would make it without loss of fur. Might have some extra chopping to do but that is all. I just don't see a real big effort for lynx happening. I am fortunate to have the mixed bag here. I am just contemplating on how best to strategize on making it work and getting a good return for my time. Bottom line I like to trap all 4 about equally well. I just have to weigh the taking care of them. The marten have it hands down there but are a wild card on whether or not they will cooperate. I think if we have a somewhat usual winter I could do pretty good this year with what I learned last year. The investment is made. Beaver is a given. No doubt that I can catch a lot of them. But do I want that much work. Only if I know I can get a decent price on them dried. It would take investing $ in more conibears however. Not a very rosy picture. Snares are an option but don’t compare to conibears in success per set in my opinion. Otter. If China hadn't pulled the plug and sent the returns on them to the toilet I would be all over them. I love trapping otter. I will look for an Alaskan Market like Joe. If it pans out I will make time for them. Lynx. I hate to trap a lot of them for fur prices and I just don't seem to make the time to market them like I should to the taxidermy markets like I have in the past. I have some to tan up. I will see what they will do locally as well. Decisions. Just like last year. Planning is half the fun for me however. I really miss doing this with my kids. Takes a lot of the fun out of it for me not having them here to trap with. With the decision to put my son in public school this year there will be even less time for him to join me out here. What ever I do I will be loving it as always! $\:D$ Thanks for the input Mike it is appreciated as always. Guess I will quit straying on this otter thread. Started off on the topic and now seems to have gone all over. Edited by Family Trapper (06/17/07 04:59 AM) _________________________ Shoot for the Moon and you will be a lot happier where you land.
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#233365 - 06/17/07 11:45 PM Re: Otter thread/archive [Re: Family Trapper]
martentrapper martentrapper trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 479 Loc: Nome, Ak.	Perhaps we need a trapline planning thread? mt
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