#655921 - 03/28/08 08:28 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Billfrank]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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J Trapper wrote...More likely than not, he'll check one out on his return trip, that's just a coyote being a coyote!
That is certainly true most of the time. Leave sets alone, no reluring, fussing with or adjusting anything, just stay away and chances are the walk-by coyote will be waiting for one on the next few trap checks. That has always been my advice to those who asked and 90% of the time I hear from a happy trapper withing a few days. Ace
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#656249 - 03/29/08 07:47 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Waiting on coyotes is often a plan worth striving for and Slim,J trapper and Asa have good points. I like waxed dirt for that wait game in freze thaw conditions though or the yote usually shows up and starts digging around long about time the trap IS FROZE IN !! Dang it, hate that! 
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#657901 - 03/30/08 09:13 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Billfrank]
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MChewk
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 951
Loc: Northern Illinois
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I too agree with Blak and Bill...trapping in my neck of the woods we don't have huge parcels of property...lots of smaller tracts and its broken up by development. So trapping on one farm that is nearby another farm that I'm trapping on is like trapping ON ALL THE LAND IN BETWEEN. Coyotes being roaming fools they will eventually check your sets out at other places. I say leave them set...watch for tracks and other sign then decide the next move.
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#657910 - 03/30/08 09:23 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: MChewk]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Those farm scenarios do not generally apply to the type of wildereness lines run in my part of Upper Michigan. 90% of coyote lines are run through firelane roads through state and federal forest land. Ace
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#657930 - 03/30/08 09:40 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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Mark
I will not get into a human scent argument as it is not worth any of our time. However, I think if recall serves me Major Boddicker is someone you think highly of? Correct me if I am wrong.
I think highly of the work he has done, and in fact human scent is not something he is overly concerned with, even in desolate parts of Colorado where minimal human contact occurs compared to Iowa where I am from. To add to it, he has spit tobacco on sets, and used deisel fuel to catch coyotes, just to show it can be done. I attended a talk he gace last year, and he talked about how a certain percentage of coyotes are actually attracted to deisel fuel. Now I'm not gonna start using it for lure, but I find it all very interesting.
Your thoughts?
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk 
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#658038 - 03/30/08 11:23 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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Snaptrap
trapper
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Lewiston MN.
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Great thread guys! I trap farmland here in SE MN. and cover 20-25 farms a day. The coyotes are typically funneled by the bluffs, crop changes and wooded fencerows. When I suspect a finicky coyote on one farm, I generally set a new location on that farm that I've never used before, maybe in existing gopher mounds that happen to be in the travel route. Maybe a blind set where they cross a fence if it's easy to blend there. Just something out of my routine since I trap these farms year after year and I believe family groups pass along this info as they see the kinfolks shaking hands with a #2 Bridger!!
I see coy-dogs mentioned also. I caught my first coy-dog two seasons ago and caught two more this year. They were all caught on seperate farms but were connected by one large valley. They were identical in color, which was typical redish brown with black highlights, same as our yotes in this area, but the length of their fur is amazingly long,3-4inches down their backs! They had furrier ears that were a little more rounded than a yote and they had the yellow eyes of a coyote. I'm hoping I can eliminate these buggers before they multiply into other regions I trap.
Terry
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#658306 - 03/30/08 02:21 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Snaptrap]
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Ely
trapper
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 243
Loc: Somerset area, Pa.
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I read somewhere that someone had some penned up coyotes (about 10 acres) and noticed that if he put in a new object, say a big rock, that the coyotes would avoid it for a while and act real suspicious. But if he would take away an object that had been there all along that they would swarm all over where it had been. Never did try it but might make a good set.
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#658930 - 03/30/08 08:02 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Ely]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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k9, I hold Major in the highest regard and he and I have a long standing friendship and you're correct on his assessment of human scent to a large degree. He has done extensive work with canines and knows his stuff. I don't really worry about human odor is my opinion other than take normal precautions like trappers do. I firmly believe coyotes know you've been at a spot and don't much care the first time BUT I don't think certain coyotes, much like mature deer, tolerate you stinking up the place a few times a week. In MI, I really paid little attention to human odor.. I got the sets in and fine. I moved to NE and I saw that the remote regions of our state did in fact have coyotes that circled my sets much more on the initial night of trap setting than I ever had with the eastern MI coyotes. In fact my personal opening day catches in MI were always 6-9 but in NE, no way. I catch way more here but my sets have to age anther day or two before they bang them routinely. Now there are no absolutes and I catch plenty of first night yotes here too, but I do personally see a more skittish critter in the Sandhills where I trap and that's OK... they come to papa evantually.
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#659138 - 03/30/08 10:07 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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You talking Michigan or Minnesota?
I am guessing those Neb coyotes get worked by the GMen pretty hard before you get a shot at them
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#659360 - 03/31/08 07:49 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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Mister ED
trapper
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 186
Loc: West Michigan
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You talking Michigan or Minnesota?
MI = Michigan
MN = Minnesota
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#659459 - 03/31/08 09:23 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k. miller]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Mark June wrote...I got the sets in and fine. I moved to NE and I saw that the remote regions of our state did in fact have coyotes that circled my sets much more on the initial night of trap setting than I ever had with the eastern MI coyotes. In fact my personal opening day catches in MI were always 6-9 but in NE, no way. I catch way more here but my sets have to age anther day or two before they bang them routinely.
Well put Mark. You and I have both trapped the Seney area of Upper michigan and those wilderness coyotes have always been wary of anything new, out of place or reeking of excessive human or foreign scents. Trappers for years have told me as example the same story about mountain wilderness coyotes compared to farmland coyotes; use clean standards, make sets quickly with minimum tracking around and less set visits and one will always come out on the winning side and not have to wait for days for the excessive scents to dissipate before sets are worked if ever. Ace PS- Paul Dobbins has mentioned several times the differences he has noted between trapping coyotes in Alaska, South Dakota and Upper Michigan.
Edited by Asa Lenon (03/31/08 10:24 AM)
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#659632 - 03/31/08 11:40 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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k9.. I was referring to NE where I live now on the last part of my previous post.
Black Dog I will be at two trapper's meets in WI this year. I was asked to do a summer day I think it's in Columbus??? in July and then of course the Marshfield convention. I have demos at both, usually they askk me to do a couple and we have a good time with the folks.
Asa, I have trapped coyotes in so many places over the years and all I know is that there's a lot of variables BUT if you respec the nose of a coyote, you'll do fine. That being said... I have caught hundred of coyotes with bare hands, bare traps, and not so clean methods over the years BUT I don't rely on these habits to fill the stretchers when push comes to shove.
Mark
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#659650 - 03/31/08 11:57 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Mark J wrote...Asa, I have trapped coyotes in so many places over the years and all I know is that there's a lot of variables BUT if you respec the nose of a coyote, you'll do fine. That being said... I have caught hundred of coyotes with bare hands, bare traps, and not so clean methods over the years BUT I don't rely on these habits to fill the stretchers when push comes to shove.
Respecting the nose of a coyote is just one of those details and factors that help add maximum harvesting one by one by one. Details in my opinion is what seperates the legends in every region from the run of the mill harvester. I have taught all my students over the years to pay attention to all details, never try to second guess the necessity for adhering to a detail in each specific situation. Those students who have taken my advice always went on to outperform those who were not paying attention or those who wanted to argue the point because so and so said differently. Ace
Edited by Asa Lenon (03/31/08 01:45 PM)
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#659735 - 03/31/08 01:17 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Asa, Like Slim said earlier this is all a learning process. You're helping folks learn and some do and some don't as easy.As for me, I've always been a "sponge".
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#659884 - 03/31/08 02:55 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: TreedaBlackdog]
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cooncrazy
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 49
Loc: hastings, nebraska.
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ffg...well thats wut i get anyways.
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#659889 - 03/31/08 02:57 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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CharlesKS
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7035
Loc: Kansas,31,6-1,220,B/B NS
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Scenario: Several coyotes are trapped successfully in an area for a period of time and then the sets grow cold. Perhaps the coyotes approach close but not close enough OR the darned things don't go near sets at all. What do you do?
MOVE and go find dumber easier coyotes.
_________________________
without farm subsidies, you box of cornflakes will cost you 15$ 
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#659891 - 03/31/08 03:00 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: CharlesKS]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Charles KS wrote...MOVE and go find dumber easier coyotes.
Good advice if there are enough coyotes in the region to be able to do that or if one hasn't pledged a farmer or rancher to irradicate their predation problems.
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#659893 - 03/31/08 03:03 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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CharlesKS
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7035
Loc: Kansas,31,6-1,220,B/B NS
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yea, ADC work is different Asa, but for fur trapping, if the weathers good, your wasting to much time and $$ "trying" to get every last one.
if they aint gonna fall for a baited dirthole, they probably wont jump all over a flat set.
having said that, i have aught several with short term memory loss, or coyotes with Indenetity issues that must think theyu are bobcats, becasue i pick them up when ii come back to an are and target cats. 
_________________________
without farm subsidies, you box of cornflakes will cost you 15$
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#659955 - 03/31/08 03:44 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: CharlesKS]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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k.miller - please please call me for dinner is my thoughts. We've certainly had some neat ideas on here since I started this post and it's plain to see that different strokes work for different folks. Coyotes are notorious for having differences in demeanor but at the end of the day they are all just that... coyotes and Charles has a good point; If they are too tough or on to you in one spot, try another. That's the best way to go and much of the research conducted on coyotes is for one purpose and that's to take those yotes NOT easily caught. How do we ambush the tough stock killer or the yote running through someone's neighborhood at 3 in the afternoon? Those individual coyotes are oftentimes different deals than fur trapping where "populations" are targeted. Thanks to everyone who has shared ideas on this and other post on TMan; Good stuff.
Mark
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#660355 - 03/31/08 06:50 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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SVR
trapper
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Atlantic county N.J.
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wow i just sat down an read this 4 page thread an my eyes are ready to fall out, BUT it was well worth it. Thanks for all the wisdom from all you guys.
well i cant use steal traps here in New Jersey but i do snare. An hav had alot of trial an error with the coyote, an its all learning exsperiance as Slim said.
My answer from the start.(Newt Sterling being my mentor) Has always told me leave an go up the street an catch 10 dumb ones lol As charles said also.
I started to hunt coyotes this year, so we made 2 bait stations(using deer) They tour my deer up in a couple days but my buddy hung his in a tree, I told him it wasnt natural, but he insisted, over a month later nothing touch it so i cut it down.Went back 2 days later an a grey fox ate alitle chunk outta the ham, 1 week later coyotes tour its shoulds an what was left of the hams. The following week they ate from the top of the neck all the way to the hams ate every thing an drug it 20yds. I was always told they didnt want anything to do with old carcasses, just thouhjt id share. thanks again to all steve
p.s. whats a good video to buy on coyote snaring
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#660362 - 03/31/08 06:52 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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OK I am either misunderstanding or something, because when I read Marks response regarding Michigan VS Neb coyotes it seems he is saying the Neb ones are harder to catch on the first trap night. I am getting middle aged so I re read it a couple times. Maybe my brain is in a fog. I am not going to start an argument, I am just trying to understand.
So Mark, you are peaking my interest when you mention Boddicker.
Your thoughts on multiple lures at a set?
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#660367 - 03/31/08 06:54 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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Mark June wrote
"In MI, I really paid little attention to human odor.. I got the sets in and fine. I moved to NE and I saw that the remote regions of our state did in fact have coyotes that circled my sets much more on the initial night of trap setting than I ever had with the eastern MI coyotes. In fact my personal opening day catches in MI were always 6-9 but in NE, no way. "
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#660468 - 03/31/08 07:30 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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K9, I don't catch as many 1st night yotes here in NE as I did in Michigan, even though there are MANY more here as the population goes. In fact, I moved to NE for a reason and that's that several regions of our state are the highest densities in the nation (well they're down now due to darn mange!) and I attribute less 1st night catches to human odor since my methods didn't change. I see "many" visits to within a couple feet here in NE first night but the action really starts to roll consistantly after that. Now I did catch 8 coyotes and 2 bobcats the first night of catch this year and that was really about as good (I usually get around 4 or 5 yotes) as I can get with 50 or so sets in opening day for me. In MI, I'd count on 6 to 10 coyotes opening day check. Just an "unscientific" comparison is what I'm getting at and heck I stay for several weeks in both main trapping areas I have in western NE, so there's time to get em!
Mark
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#660734 - 03/31/08 09:30 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: A.J.]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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Im not talking about what Paul posted I am talking about what Mark June posted that I quoted.
Did you all read what he said? I did. He said he had better first night catch numbers in Michigan than in Neb, without being overly concerned about human scent.
I'm sorry that some of you disagree, but it's funny to me that when I say such things I am just trying to start a fight.
Let's not talk about ruining threads, let's discuss coyote behavior.
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#660736 - 03/31/08 09:31 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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Mark you are at a disadvantage. There has been a long discussion over the years about human scent and how coyotes from different areas may react to human scent.
So Mark, Your thoughts on multiple lures at sets? Is it comparable to Boddickers??
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#660789 - 03/31/08 10:16 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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k9, Major's work along with several other excellent projects is outlined in my book and my coyote DVD... multiple smells ALWAYS outperform single agents. Major talks about 27,000 coyote visits in several of his articles and while I spent 4 1/2 years studying them, WOW that's a lot of visits. We would collar and conduct telemetry studies on yotes and ALWAYS used govt formulations rather than commercial lures back then (fatty acid derivatives) and they work very well. I started my lure biz in 1984 just after I learned and started putzin with ingredients I saw used in the field research. Bottom line,,, I use mutiple smells and my catch is higher as a result. Guys who skimp on lures and baits and the 34 components in urine are doomed to mediocrity in the canine game unless handed a land of many critters!!
Mark
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#660811 - 03/31/08 10:32 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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Heimbrock
trapper
Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Ohio/Maryland
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Often times, when I can get to this alternate universe, I am reminded of something Kermit once said, “ Don’t eat the guest star at the beginning of the show”
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#660941 - 04/01/08 05:36 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Heimbrock]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Heimbrock, YES!!! Especially one bite at a time
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#660970 - 04/01/08 06:17 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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"Major's work along with several other excellent projects is outlined in my book "
Not that you were trying to, but you just sold a book as soon as I get to NTA. Major got any new books out yet? I asked him to write one on lures/attractors and he talked like he was working on one.
There have been two theories and/or schools of thought debated here regarding too much lure at a set. One being that too much lure applied at a set causes the coyote to stay back, and satisfy his curiousity from afar. The other being, if a coyote will approach a whole dead cow, why would a little extra lure at a set make a difference?
I tend to agree with the cow theory but am conflicted by some trapping I have done in the heat of the summer where I have had better luck using smaller amounts of lure. Of course, I went into those summer trapping scenarios with a built in prejudice that you lure lighter in hotter weather, so it may just be a reflection of my prejudice skewing my observations.
Your thoughts on too much lure causing no visits at sets?
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#660972 - 04/01/08 06:20 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k9.]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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Your talk of fatty acids is really peaking my interest. I think I have your Suburbia book somewhere around here. What is the title of your latest one? You can pm me if you are shy about advertising, but since I am asking I doubt that anyone will care.
Never mind I just found what I need in your link.
Edited by k9. (04/01/08 06:22 AM)
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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#660998 - 04/01/08 06:51 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Freepop]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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My Dad expounded the idea of multiple odors at a set in his first book written in 1933 so that is nothing new or anything discovered in government testing in more recent yeras. That is why Lenon lures have 12 to 15 different ingredients in each formulation. Personal testing by my Dad and myself has proven that the more ingredients in a lure the longer a canine will stay to analyze them. Ace
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#661019 - 04/01/08 07:05 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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k9.
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3192
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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My Dad expounded the idea of multiple odors at a set in his first book written in 1933 so that is nothing new or anything discovered in government testing in more recent yeras. That is why Lenon lures have 12 to 15 different ingredients in each formulation. Personal testing by my Dad and myself has proven that the more ingredients in a lure the longer a canine will stay to analyze them. Ace
Good point
_________________________
2008 One coon One skunk
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