#652940 - 03/27/08 07:39 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: TreedaBlackdog]
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John Graham
trapper
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 329
Loc: Jordan, Montana
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T20 had the best response so far IMO. True shy coyotes won't be going near those set locations, and in some cases won't be seen in that area again. I know, I deal with those types. Having coyotes hanging around and not getting caught only shows that they are on to that spot, or your sets. Change things and catch them somewheres else is the fastest. Remember, coyotes don't spend a lot of time at you picture perfect locations. 99% of the time the are SOMEWHERE ELSE. Find another spot, or as Steve Craig said, "snare them".
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#652953 - 03/27/08 07:47 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: TreedaBlackdog]
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Blak coyote
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 1613
Loc: N.e.WI.
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One thing I've found in situations like this is finding adjacent property to trap on takes these same coyotes that are starting to get shy for one reason or other.Moving off(not removing traps)and setting traps say on the next parcel of land takes these same coyotes, their guard may be down or their more comfortable for some reason.Coyotes move around and just because their avoiding or milling around sets on that say 100 acre piece of land doesn't mean they'll do the same on the next 100 acre property.
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#652960 - 03/27/08 07:51 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: John Graham]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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John G wrote...Having coyotes hanging around and not getting caught only shows that they are on to that spot, or your sets.
I agree 100% John, if one does things right and always pays attention to detail along with using appropriate sets and scents for the time of season there will be so few set avoiders and walk-bys that they are not worth mentioning. The only exception to this was 30 years trapping coyotes for bounty in the Summer when pups were still running with their Mothers. Old Mother coyotes sometimes wised up to commonly made sets and scents after a few of her pups were seen in traps. Those types could generally be taken with blind scent sets subtly lured with something completely different. I always made at least one blind or post set among a set grouping of hole sets to ensure I took the Mother on her and the pups first visit. Ace
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#652992 - 03/27/08 08:15 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k. miller]
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LT GREY
trapper
Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 5554
Loc: Central Ohio
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Hard to top what has already been said! Good info on that same subject down on the "Trapping Only" forum.
Biggest reason, why I snare. I doubt many snare as many coyotes year round in this area, but there may be someone I don't know about.
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#653005 - 03/27/08 08:27 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: LT GREY]
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MChewk
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 951
Loc: Northern Illinois
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I'm playing "devil's advocate" here...guys how will you ever know if they are the same coyotes? After taking highs of 27, 30 and 38 coyotes off one piece of property how in the world can you say you caught THAT PARTICULAR coyote(S)?
I say add new sets at the same locations and leave those original sets in maybe give it a squirt or two of urine and wait them out.
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#653037 - 03/27/08 08:43 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: TreedaBlackdog]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Calvin, Sorry if a discussion about what mag guys get most often makes me look big headed. I've found that far too many of the posts on TMan are taken literally cause guys don't have a sense of wit or humor. You post something with a little brevity or something fun and someone stands on a soapbox and says HEY YOU'RE NOT AS BIG AS ME! Ok, don't answer a fun thread but don't get in the way of guys chattin back and forth who know each other and have some fun with it. There are MANY great responses here for trappers to ponder and that's the goal me's thinks?!?
Mark
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#653051 - 03/27/08 08:52 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k. miller]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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kirk, I have but more importantly research has been done showing that multiple smells at a set ALWAYS outperform single agents. This applys to lures, baits AND urines. Urine has 34 components such as ketones (Proteins), alcohols, sulfides, etc. and is pretty complex but yes there's something better about multiple urines and I think guys like Blackie sell bobcat/fox mixes and some such. Good call.
Mark
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#653073 - 03/27/08 09:10 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: DECOY]
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Blackdog
trapper
Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 534
Loc: Green Bay, Wisconsin
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Had major problem at a set one time. Seems like he would dig out trap, dump on trap you name it but then I noticed he was wearing the grass down in a circle around the set, set trap in the path to the rear of set,bam nx day he was waiting for me.
Troy
_________________________
Lord willin and the creeks don't rise!
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#653077 - 03/27/08 09:12 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Denny Emery]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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k... I know a cute story scoundrels switched a guy's yote pee for dog and the dude had his best year ever but for me I don't see good rsults so don't use it.
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#653106 - 03/27/08 09:41 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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Calvin
trapper
Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 958
Loc: Farminton, Minnesota
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Mr June,
I believe the "Hey your not as big as me" reference was made by YOU when you eluded to the money a mag was going to pay you for your knowledge (weather you realized you did it or not). There are some absolute legends on this forum that have been skinning coyotes longer than you and I (likely combined)have been alive. There are also some not so well known guys on here that have a wealth of knowledge, even though they don't advertise it, or anything else along with it.
I/m just a retard low numbers guy (spelled: non threatening) that enjoys the dialog that comes about when certain threads open up with some of the greats giving detailed accounts of their experiences over decades. You have something to offer this forum, Mr June. However, there are others that have plenty to offer as well...just an observation....Calvin
_________________________
Any day above ground is a good day.
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#653120 - 03/27/08 09:52 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Calvin]
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Blak coyote
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 1613
Loc: N.e.WI.
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Please don't let this thread get tanked,it's been a good read.
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#653265 - 03/27/08 11:39 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Freepop]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Mark June wrote...
I know a cute story scoundrels switched a guy's yote pee for dog and the dude had his best year ever but for me I don't see good rsults so don't use it.
I never seen any good results either. One season I trained my airedale as a trapline dog and my set acceptance and catch rate decreased just because the dog was around my sets. As soon as I started leaving the dog home the results went back to normal. Ace
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#653369 - 03/27/08 12:46 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Hunter5454]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Hunter,
I can wrap up this discussion in a pretty tight nutshell and as I read the posts, there are no right or wrong answers... was it Yoda in Star Wars that said, "There is only try". We all learn through interaction with each other and through interaction with the animals afield. As a field biologist back in 1977-1982, I spent time alongside very intellegent and oftentimes quiet coyote researchers who were doing their darndest to learn how to "better" control coyote numbers due to predation, disease, etc. I learned that the coyote is very different than many animals we trap because they have a social structure and show dominance, submissive traits, civility, hostility, territoriality and on and on the list goes. For the trapper who knows more and more about these traits, you can't help but be better. For instance, anyone ever listen to one of my most respected mentors, Dr. Major Boddicker from Ft. COllins, CO and how he can use the Critter Call predator call he invented to really talk coyote. He's not ancient, but he's a few years older than me (I'm 50) so where'd he learn all that stuff... how coyotes talk back and forth and such??? Well he commited a ton of his life to loving it and living it and that's what we all can do if we chose to. And I love to learn and learn about yotes because they are not raccoons and they aren't even foxes when it comes to animal traits. They are much more complex, upstaged probably only by the bigger wolf. So when Major Boddicker and people like him talk, I listen like they're E.F. Hutton!!! Coyotes have very predictable societal traits that can be used by trappers if we want to know about them and use the yote traits against the little buggers.
This has been a good thread to read along IMO.
Mark
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#653422 - 03/27/08 01:20 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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Zagman
trapper
Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 96
Loc: Central New York State
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Mark June wrote...
I know a cute story scoundrels switched a guy's yote pee for dog and the dude had his best year ever but for me I don't see good rsults so don't use it.
I never seen any good results either. One season I trained my airedale as a trapline dog and my set acceptance and catch rate decreased just because the dog was around my sets. As soon as I started leaving the dog home the results went back to normal. Ace
boy, its amazing how things can be viewed 180 degrees on the same subject.
I utilize my dogs as EVERY location. Two dogs....
I think my catch % is up since I started to use them and have decided that I will NEVER trap coyotes again without dogs.
Many of my best sets are simply grass tufts the dogs pee on and I blend a trap in with NO other lure or urine added. Gosh, that speaks volumes for me as to any concern about dogs and their use on the coyote line.
If you look at my catch picture from this year, a very small percentage of my catch was pups. This year, probably 75% adults 25% pups.....
Zagman
Edited by Zagman (03/27/08 01:21 PM)
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#653447 - 03/27/08 01:31 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Zagman]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Must be a regional thing again Zagman! I have known many a trapper over the years that tried dog urine/turds in my area with limited results. Perhaps it is how coyotes have been conditioned by hunting pressure with dogs in a given area. Ace
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#653451 - 03/27/08 01:32 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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Hunter5454
trapper
Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 82
Loc: Michigan
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Thanks for the info Mark! I love to learn as much about them as I can also. That is why I laid awake in bed half the night all season long trying to think about new places to trap and ways to catch them!! 
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#653476 - 03/27/08 01:42 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Blackdog]
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Zagman
trapper
Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 96
Loc: Central New York State
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The secret is TWO dogs.....ONE dog scares coyotes....TWO dogs attracts them.
Use this for justification with the wife as to why you need TWO dogs.
Most of the grass tufts are already hit by coyotes/fox....
I just LOVE pulling into a location and seeing a coyote caught in a set with NO lure or urine.....they always look embarrassed, and I always say: "You fell for that?"
Now, I wont say I dont use lure or urine on a lot of my sets, in fact, its rare that I dont spike the set with something else. But year in and out, I find myself NOT putting lure or urine on these more and more.
There's another louder set upwind of the grass tuft, so they are attracted to the immediate area already. Some run right into the loud set and donate,....many, many, stay back, shuffle their feet, pace, and cant HELP but lift their legs or squat.
The chapter in Tom Krauses fox book applies here.....dont go putting "scent post" sets randomly, anywhere.....put them in a spot that compells them to mark and let other know they were there.
Zagman
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#653541 - 03/27/08 02:20 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Zagman]
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MChewk
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 951
Loc: Northern Illinois
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Good post Zags. Those post sets do pick up the 'yotes.
Just don't have room in the house for a dog with 4 kids and a wife...lol
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#653681 - 03/27/08 03:38 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Blak coyote]
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bluegrassman
trapper
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Indiana
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i usually put a scent post or urine post set a little ways down wind or up trail of the avoided set. maybe another scent post or just a (turd with pee on it) set somewhere else in the coyotes travelway. if that don't get them and i have other places to trap just pull traps and go set on another property. no sense wasting time and gas money on one or two coyotes when you can go somwhere else and catch 4 or 5 easy ones. also you can go back in 3 or 4 weeks and pop in a scent post and pick em up alot of times.
that strange turd with pee on it will usually get the smatter ones.
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#653823 - 03/27/08 04:54 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: bluegrassman]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Zagman, On that yote catch did you by chance take notice of the gender/sex of your coyotes at all?
A healthy population in terms of age dynamics should be about 60-70% juveniles and the harvest of a "healthy" population runs approx. 50/50 males and females. Just wondered. You mentioned 75% adults also and that's not indicative of a healthy population in most all cases? The good news is you're putting a real good dent in them and they'll stay healthier and stronger as a population as a result.
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#653845 - 03/27/08 05:05 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: bluegrassman]
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Bryan Daigle
trapper
Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 228
Loc: Madawaska, Maine
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At the areas approach and exit lanes simple pieces of sod the size of a garbage can lid folded over half way and pinned down with rebar stakes absent of ANY thing added except for the smell of fresh soil and the visual effect of the mound itself with two sets made in the newly uncovered dirt have taken their share.
_________________________
From the other Maine 
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#654106 - 03/27/08 06:43 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Bryan Daigle]
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koontrapper
trapper
Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 249
Loc: south dakota
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shoot them
_________________________
trappers the name and critters are my game
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#654125 - 03/27/08 07:05 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: koontrapper]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Bryan, Nice approach and I have known those who liked this type of approach and did have it work. I haven't used that type too much but this reminds me to give stuff a try.
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#654207 - 03/27/08 07:50 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: k. miller]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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K... you hit it on the nail head. In Michigan, the eastern coyote not only tolerates fido in the area but does often investigate after fido is gone... "what did that dog do now!"
Here in NE, I learned mighty quick when I first started trapping that things here are NOT as they were there in the east. You take a dog around here and NO WAY a yote is having fun investigating. Dogs here mean stake trucks and guns and such on big ranches and out on the prairie a yote learns to be cautious.... see forever and be a scardie cat and LIVE LONG and POSPER!
That's why methods can and do work well in some spots but not others. Heck I tell guys it took me 3 good years to get my wheels out here because you don't have "edge" like the east. You have structure and I was not good at reading it initially. Learn your ground and in KS you better know the dif between ag and prairie cause it matters!
Mark
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#654239 - 03/27/08 08:07 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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Supergoose
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 257
Loc: MI
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Ok. About using more than one urine. How about mixing it up--say two kinds of coyote urine, or one coyote and one fox urine. How would that work ??
_________________________
A passing goose may honk..but he won't wave
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#654269 - 03/27/08 08:18 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Supergoose]
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Zagman
trapper
Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 96
Loc: Central New York State
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You know, I did not tally up my M vs. F ratio yet....it wont be 100% but will be close.
I used to weigh every coyote and sex them....and almost to a T, every year, I had almost a perfect 50/50 split.
Weighing them was an eye opening experience, as I was convinced that I, me, MZ, was catching several 50-plus pounders a year.......I wasn't. A 43 lb melon headed male sure looks and feels like he weighs 60#, but he doesn't. The scales dont lie.
MZ
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