#680281 - 04/14/08 08:34 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your sets?
[Re: Scott Huber]
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Scott Huber
trapper
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 24
Loc: South Dakota
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Mark June (today): "My experience, like yours, is that in areas where coyotes co-exist with LARGE numbers of people, ex: Lower portion of MI, trappers need to make adjustments."
Mark June (previous): "In fact, I moved to NE for a reason and that's that several regions of our state are the highest densities in the nation (well, they're down now due to darn mange!) and I attribute less 1st night catches to human odor since my methods didn't change."
So other trappers need to make adjustments but your methods didn't change? Which way is it Mark?
~SH~
Edited by Scott Huber (04/14/08 09:04 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
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Understanding how coyote behavior changes from one area to the next is where the rubber meets the road
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#680285 - 04/14/08 08:38 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your sets?
[Re: huntinglonewolf]
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Calvin
trapper
Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 958
Loc: Farminton, Minnesota
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I really don't think you can lump all coyotes into one pot, so I/ll have to dissagree with ya abit huntingwolf. Like even a dumb ol beaver at times "some" coyotes seem to "just know" when something is alittle off and just wont commit (no matter whats down the hole at times). Even some dumb ol beaver can, and do, figure us out in a hurry. These are the coytotes that give people fits on occassion and if you don't adjust yourself, your not going to catch them. Maybe not a big deal if your trapping large tracts of land but around here...Suburbia (and many places in the east it appears) you don't have that luxury as many times you are targeting specific coyotes. Like "some" people and "some" dumb beavers...coyotes learn from bad experiences experiences as well.
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Any day above ground is a good day.
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#680297 - 04/14/08 08:49 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your sets?
[Re: Calvin]
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A.J.
trapper
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 577
Loc: New York
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Scott Huber,
It appears you only have 23 post on T-mann, and all on this thread. Just wondering if you could share who you are, what you do for a living, your puplications and where you trap.
I'm kind of lost trying to sort all this stuff out. I know who, Asa, Mark June, Paul Dobbins, Slim and Jonny Graham are.
No trying to pick a fight, I'd just like to understand were your coming from.
So who is Scott Huber?
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#680308 - 04/14/08 09:07 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your sets?
[Re: huntinglonewolf]
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Scott Huber
trapper
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 24
Loc: South Dakota
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A.J.: "Just wondering if you could share who you are, what you do for a living, your puplications and where you trap."
Sure, I'm Scott Huber, I'm an ADC trapper for SD, I've written a few articles, and I trap in SD.
Hope that helps?
~SH~
_________________________
Understanding how coyote behavior changes from one area to the next is where the rubber meets the road
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#680311 - 04/14/08 09:11 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your sets?
[Re: Scott Huber]
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A.J.
trapper
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 577
Loc: New York
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Sure that helps. Let the discussion commence!
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#680331 - 04/14/08 09:41 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Scott Huber]
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Blak coyote
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 1613
Loc: N.e.WI.
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Would you suggest that UP MI coyotes are wilderness coyotes? If so, why would they be so afraid of humans? I remember Slim writing that his experience with wilderness coyotes is that they tend to be very curious critters as opposed to cautious. That makes sense. Of course they have the same natural fear of humans that most wild animals have but they shouldn't associate human odor with a negative experience beyond that natural fear unless someone has messed with them.
The factors that I can think of that affect success in coyote trapping from one place to the other are the coyote population in that area, the amount of trapping pressure in that area, non target probabilities (possums, etc), secondary target probabilities (coon and skunk, etc), weather, access, rocky ground vs. decent soil conditions for setting, difficulty in placing sets due to vegation (habitat changes), & other human disturbances (hunting seasons and/or coyote hunters). Those are the primary factors that will affect your degree of success from one place to the other. Would you agree with that? If not, what would you add to that list?
If we are going to play the East/West card, let's identify what we are really talking about for differences.
If you agree with those variables that affect coyote trapping success from one area to the other, then which of those factors or other factors MIGHT we be talking about that would make UP MI coyotes more difficult to catch? I know you said you weren't sure why but if you thought about it, we should be able to identify the differences because the basic survival instincts of a coyote don't change. They're still coyotes. Perhaps it's something as simple as less coyotes available.
~SH~
I haven't trapped anywhere except my little corner of the world. I live 100 miles from the UP border in WI. A couple things I have noticed over the years and when I first started catching coyotes to now. I never had a problem with fox around here,but the coyotes took over after mange knocked a big hole in the fox back in the 90's. I would rack my brain over those stupid coyotes.At the time I thought they we're rocket scientists but learned over the years it wasn't them,it was me and what was going on around me.First we don't have the coyote pop. up here like in the west or even states like Ill or IN.. So that was my first hurdle to learn and realize,less animals lower catch compared to other areas. Another thing is it seems like everyone and their brother never pass up an opportunity to take a shot at a coyote(rednecks with guns,lol).So one of the things I learned,setting traps where there is alot of human activity like 4 wheelers and hunting especially at NIGHT,ie; shinning produce less than spots with moderate everyday happenings like field work,loggers etc. Another thing I looked at was my lures and baits. I was using the same as everyone else was using for the past lifetime,and got to thinking I should try something different and I did. My catches started going up. So by avoiding what I call high stress areas and using lures and baits that are new to the area and keeping half way clean but not as anal as I was,hipboots rubber gloves etc.I found I sweat more wearing all that rubber. My success went up. And it's still up and trying to figure on ways to bring it up even more.I have a couple other coyote trappers around me and know them and my catch is around 6 to their 1. When talking to them their still using the same lures they did 15-20 years ago.Also I got in the habit of NOT making text book picture perfect dirtholes and used other sets as well that no one was using like flat sets or just oddball stuff. Another thing I noticed on our coyotes up here is their fed well and I think that plays into the equation too,plenty of road kill deer,turkey and brushy enough to hold rabbits and mice. But I think those big grocery ticket items are the main reason the coyotes have a nice layer of fat on their back.
For the UP, I never trapped it but I did go up to help out a guy figure out what he was doing wrong,he just couldn't catch a coyote and it was his second year. I asked him what he was using for lure and he told me and also told me so and so uses it and so does...... I told him to get something different and have it when I come up.He took me on his line and showed me how he was setup,etc. I gave him a few pointers and he made a few sets maybe 15 or so while I was there. The next day he bingoed on his first coyote using something different and the next day he bingoed again. I'm no expert or pro,but do know my area well,and figured being so close that the same things could be the problem there.
So to me it isn't nothing complicated it's just keeping things simple and paying attention to whats happening when and where and who's doing what. When the local guys around me ask what I'm using I just tell them the same as they are.But if I did tell them they would probably try it and after they didn't connect right away they'd go right back to what their using.I had one guy that was having a terrible time with snapped traps and dug up etc. He asked me for some help,so I showed him how I bed and set my pan tension,he was using basically zero tension.Well after a couple days of doing what I showed him and no success he went back to what he was doing. That was the last year he trapped for coyotes. I find alot,myself included reluctant to try something new or change your ways. But I look at it this way,if what your doing isn't working and you try something else and it doesn't work right away,WHY go back to wasn't working to begin with.
I don't know if this makes any sense,it does to me,but it's my little corner of the world and haven't trapped anywhere else.
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#680334 - 04/14/08 09:45 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: A.J.]
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Blak coyote
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 1613
Loc: N.e.WI.
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Scott Huber,
It appears you only have 23 post on T-mann, and all on this thread. Just wondering if you could share who you are, what you do for a living, your puplications and where you trap.
I'm kind of lost trying to sort all this stuff out. I know who, Asa, Mark June, Paul Dobbins, Slim and Jonny Graham are.
No trying to pick a fight, I'd just like to understand were your coming from.
So who is Scott Huber?
AJ, Scotts been around the block a few times.lol He was on The Trapper and Predator Caller's Predator Hunting East and West with Gerry Blair. I think that's the right title.
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#680337 - 04/14/08 09:48 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Blak coyote]
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A.J.
trapper
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 577
Loc: New York
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AJ, Scotts been around the block a few times.lol He was on The Trapper and Predator Caller's Predator Hunting East and West with Gerry Blair. I think that's the right title.
Thanks Duanne, Just trying to understand the players, I love watching the game!
Edited by A.J. (04/14/08 09:52 AM)
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#680420 - 04/14/08 11:27 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Blackdog]
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Slim Pedersen
"ALL HAIL EL PRESIDENTAY! "
trapper
Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Georgia
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I believe that I have probably trapped in as many states as anyone has, both east and west. NO, I have not trapped in MI, WIS. but I do know several trappers that do and have. I stand on my comment that a coyote is a coyote! True, Maine and a few other areas in Northeast have some huge coyotes. But they still primarily act like coyotes.
I believe the most difficult coyotes that I have ever trapped for were sheep killers in Eastern Montana, North and South Dakota, and North East Wyoming as well as Western Colorado. Like Scott and Cris have pointed out, those coyotes probably get more pressure year around than any coyotes living anywhere do, and usually not just from rank amature trappers, denners, callers, or airial hunters, but from the very well trained, hard working 365 day men. Yet, they can be trapped and are every day of the year.
Coyotes that walk past sets, can usually be caught by making a few changes and waiting them out. Coyotes that slam on the brakes, then turn and run away are a different matter. They usually require some extreme changes, yet they too can be caught, like I have already said above, they are every day where they have to be caught or killed somehow.
Now I will catch some flak again, but here goes anyway. I have never found the eastern coyotes any more difficult to catch than anywhere else. However with that statement made, I will quickly admit that weather (rain vs snow) and vegetations, and perhaps the largest problem being access to them are probably more difficult in the east than in the west over all.
Every area, and I do mean EVERY area has some local problems that have to be adapted and adjusted to---usually as much people problems as actual coyote difficulties, but none the less problems that require some adjustment by the trapper working the area.
As far as what I did differently for each area: Pick an area, and I will tell you what I had to do differently. lol
There is a lot of excellent information in this thread, backed by some very experienced people. I hope the youth realize how very lucky they are today to have access to all this experience and information. AS I said many posts back, I would have went into hock up to my eye balls to gain half of this information when I was 20 years old.
_________________________
Proud to be a trapper and supporter of trapping organizations
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#680426 - 04/14/08 11:44 AM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Slim Pedersen]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Slim, As always you step in with VERY WISE comments basd on been there, done that experience. Thanks for the 2 cents that's worth $$$$$.
You said, "I have never found the eastern coyotes any more difficult to catch than anywhere else. However with that statement made, I will quickly admit that weather (rain vs snow) and vegetations, and perhaps the largest problem being access to them are probably more difficult in the east than in the west over all.
Every area, and I do mean EVERY area has some local problems that have to be adapted and adjusted to---usually as much people problems as actual coyote difficulties, but none the less problems that require some adjustment by the trapper working the area.
... and I agree whole heartedly with you, underscore and highlight "Every".
I also would have given much to have so deep a pool of expertise to draw upon in my younger years and heck, I would have been to poor to afford the gas nowadays anyway to do much more than run a few farms.
Mark
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#682227 - 04/15/08 07:09 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Mark June]
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sonnysolo
trapper
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Pa.
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This thread seems like it needs to keep going. But, back to the original topic. I'm a third year rookie and always pulled sets that were refused. I blamed it on contamination or wind direction. I was not a patient fellow. Next year I am gonna use waxed dirt and let my sets out for a long time. I checked all my sets after season and all my holes were dug up. Have to learn to be more patient.
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#685235 - 04/17/08 10:07 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: sonnysolo]
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Ricky Cox
trapper
Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 276
Loc: Lexington, Texas
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I was told by a retired government trapper from west Texas that he has a special set for those hard to catch yotes. I haven't tried it yet, but might give it a try next season. He said he carries a small cast iron skillet and a few strips of bacon with him. He'll make a small little fire to fry the bacon and then he uses the bacon and bacon grease for his bait. Then he takes the ashes from the fire and sits them aside to cover the trap with once he has it bedded. He said it's something the yotes haven't seen before and plus all animals are attracted to ashes. It sounds like a lot of work, but it might work on those smart/stubborn/hard to catch yotes.
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#685249 - 04/17/08 10:16 PM
Re: What do you do when coyotes don't visit your s
[Re: Ricky Cox]
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Kelly
trapper
Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 471
Loc: Iowa
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That's the old campfire set. Been around for ages. It does work but is an awfull lot of work.
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Yours for better trapping, Kelly
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