#644762 - 03/22/08 03:23 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Billfrank]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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I always use fresh glands in combination urine, gland, passion type lures and this has proven best for that type of lure. Aged or tainted glands work best in lures made for hole sets with a heavy food type base. From my experiences and testing, tainted glands elicit a rolling response from canines so they will want to dig them up and out of the hole so they can roll on them and a digging response is generally what one desires at a hole set. Ace
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#644778 - 03/22/08 03:44 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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possum5676
trapper
Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 936
Loc: kansas
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good post, i talked with paul dobbins one time and he stresed that he would not use fox glands in his gland lures until they had aged several years, his version of it was the glands need to become mellow, and stop changing their odor before they were even to be considered useable for his gland lure, i myself have always like a stout loud gland lure, and like asa said i always liked it in the bottom of a hole. Seems every luremakes is a bit different and has his own reasons for it, some use castor in their beaver lures from anywhere, others only from a cetain part of the country and or from a certain type of tree that eaten by the crittern in a certain area.
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#644873 - 03/22/08 04:48 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: possum5676]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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What Paul refers to is that nice smooth smell that glands get to after several and sometimes many years. Fresh is an exceptional attractant because it is obviously the smell of a "recent" visitor while aged glands as Asa points out are usually built into different lures to perform different ways. Case in point although very unscientific is that my lure Cherry Red which is a lure with aged and fresh red fox glands as a base is not ordered nearly as heavily each year by my customers as Fox Frenzy which is built upon fresh glands (no aged). Now some customers like one or the other but repeat sales favors fresh in my biz.
Mark
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#644881 - 03/22/08 04:53 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Denny Emery]
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Mark June
trapper
Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska
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Denny, I would susect that all lure makers stop their glands from working at the junction/spot they want. I do. Once you stop em fresh ground and preserved they can't grow up to be aged  Now if you don't know what you're doing they can turn to junk REAL quick too.
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#644899 - 03/22/08 05:07 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Denny Emery]
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RockyII
trapper
Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 741
Loc: Oakland County, MI
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I have no where near the experience in lure formulation as some but my ideology is solid. No doubt that aged has taken their share and has its place but, I prefer fresh. Thinking in an evolutionary context, just how often do you think canines come across an aged gland lure smell? How often do you think they come across a fresh smell? Which one do you think will put him on high alert because it isn't natural. Now think about whose nose decides if its a lure they want to buy? The animal? Nope, the trapper. Which odor do you think is going to grab his attention? Will an aged smell work, of course, canines are scavengers. Just don't over look their predatory instinct as well. Fresh has its place.
_________________________
I trap so everyone else can tell me why I do it.
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#645381 - 03/22/08 10:30 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Billfrank]
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Tactical.20
trapper
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1208
Loc: N.W. Iowa
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I think maybe you show them something they haven't seen before and you will catch more coyotes, especially the educated ones. The older big ones have seen most of the sets and lures in their area before. If they are not caught the first visit, they seem to ignore the set if it doesn't really appeal to them.
I used two different things this season, only trapped 2-3 farms close to town, no fuel money. I used a new set(to the coyotes) and a different attractant, I seemed to catch more with fewer traps. Could be they needed to check out the newer things? T.20
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#645465 - 03/23/08 05:34 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: huntinglonewolf]
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John Graham
trapper
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 329
Loc: Jordan, Montana
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BillFrank, read your post when it first came out, thought it was a good topic, but hated to reply for fear of being accused of 'advertising'. But, since I saw you mentioned my name, I thought I would reply.
My response is simple. I use both FRESH, and AGED. Some of the lures I make are from fresh frozen glands. I market and use them as an all-round, year long natural attractor, that gets very little negative response. I can't see where it could hurt to have them DOWN the dirthole, and am sure alot of people use them that way, OR at least on the upper lip. I personally use fresh gland lure alot on the inside of the outside blocking at my cat and /or k9 sets. I tend to do this when initially making the set, and then freshen up with urine once in a while (right on the same spot of the blocking).
I have also used and been told of its use on a variety of other sets and applications. Fresh coyote gland is actually one of my favorite fox lures, and have used it on bobcats alot simply because that is what I had in my bag when I set a trap, although I do prefer bobcat gland when after cats.
As far as AGED glands are concerned, yes there are formulations that call for it. it definately has its use as a 'base' in several lures I would have to classify as 'curiosity' as much as a gland lure. Their applications vary, and really have value on a trapline, especially as a changeup type lure.
Year in and year out, lures made from the natural things, such as glands, beaver castor, sac oil, 'rat glands, and many more will out produce some of the ones that hold too many 'exotics', at least in my opinion.
I have long ranked fresh coyote gland as one of my top favorites for coyotes, and would have to rank fresh right in there when trapping for cats and fox also.
I really don't follow what other lure makers are making and selling (too busy with my own) but I think you will find
most will offer lures made from both aged and fresh also.
Paul, I hope that this is not considered advertising. I wish all of you a Happy Easter. John
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#645521 - 03/23/08 06:12 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: huntinglonewolf]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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Good post John Graham! I agree 100% on coyote gland lures being deadly on fox and bobcat. Ace
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#645529 - 03/23/08 06:22 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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danny clifton
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 347
Loc: williamsburg ks
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I make my own gland lure. The glands are aged untill they don't stink anymore. When I want a fresh smell I make a set with urine and or a dropping. I think even fresh glands are a curiosity attracter. You remove the anus from an animal, grind it up and put it at a set. Animals certainly recognize that smell but not the source. After all there is no animal there to give off that smell. Thats the curiosity I'm refering too. There is no doubt it is effective. But for a scent the animal recognizes and checks out cause it is hardwired to do so, I prefer good urine or a dropping.
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#645537 - 03/23/08 06:32 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: huntinglonewolf]
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Bob Jameson
trapper
Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 1367
Loc: SW Pa
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There are and have been varying opinions on glands and what is considered best, aged or somewhat fresh glands in a formula. I have long been a user of a more fresh gland product and have preached the value of them for many years in my experience.
However with that being said the use of a more aged and fluid contact gland base material has its merit also. When used in a specific scent for a desired result or used in a bait the addition of the aged gland material allows this odor to enhance and blend more readily with other ingredients much better.
Aged glands are preferred by some due to the fact that they can be extended more easily and used in a more fluid formula. Therefore allowing you get more from a gallon of material vs a fresh paste gland like consistency which limits your production considerably unless you boost it via a base matrix material which will compliment the formula.
Both types of glands have their strong points and merit as stated at least in my formulation uses.The more true the odor the more recognition a target specie has of its presentation I believe. The more aged and extended it becomes the more curiosity it will possess and at times that is a desired result.
But in understanding this I have found curiosity plays a major role in animal capture percentages. So when weighing all the facts, curiosity or unfamiliar out of the norm odors or combinations of such many times will out perform the so called deemed "natural odors".
An animals need of identification and recoginition is quite strong especially a canines. So the use of different type aged or fresh based gland materials certainly has its place on a productive trapline.
The value of both fresh and aged gland materials is no doubt proven effective as testament by all the different types sold on the market today.There is a place and use for both kinds of material.The deterimining factor as to which is really hands above the rest is a hard race to call.
I believe the use of a good balance of both types of glands will serve to give the best result on any given trapline.A good formulator with an understanding of his materials and effects will use these ingredients to his advantage.
Most all of my gland products are what would be considered "fresh gland" material in nature except one product. But that particular product calls for the effects that only an aged gland material will provide by initiating a particular desired reaction from an animal when blended with other ingredients.In this case aged is best and will far out produce fresh in this type of formula.
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#645864 - 03/23/08 10:18 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Bob Jameson]
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High Noon
trapper
Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 324
Loc: East TN.
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Nice reply Bob, curiosity killed the cat so they say. I've found the same in deer scents and attractants. Animals smell their own kind all the time. Some will stop to investigate and others wiil just continue on.
In deer hunting and in trapping I like to use a combo of scents most of the time. If I use a scent that doesn't carry far, I'll use something else like skunk essence to draw them closer to the set where they can then smell my set lure. I really like this when going for Cats. Curiosity scents seem to work better for ME than straight gland lures. Straight fresh Yote glands are hard to beat though.
I like to use fresh glands most of the time. But as you said there is a time and place for everything. Learning the time and place is what seems to be the challenge that most hunters and trappers find hard to do.
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#645901 - 03/23/08 10:39 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: High Noon]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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High Noon wrote...Curiosity scents seem to work better for ME than straight gland lures.
I agree, curiosity has proven in testing to most always be the #1 most consistent attraction. I mix all the callings in each species formulation that I know of, hunger, passion, curiosity, nature, territorial, etc just to be sure the right thing is there for the mood of the animal at the time of a set visit. Ace
Edited by Asa Lenon (03/23/08 03:06 PM)
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#646596 - 03/23/08 06:28 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: KYBOY]
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Jtrapper
trapper
Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 7377
Loc: Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
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Great post. I agree with KYboy though and have had better luck using red fox gland lure for fox, cats, coyotes than I have with coyote gland lure.
_________________________
 I ALMOST survived SmackDown Tupelo '08!
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#646935 - 03/23/08 09:21 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Jtrapper]
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High Noon
trapper
Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 324
Loc: East TN.
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KYBOY.. I agree that red fox glands make a good universal base or addition to a predator lure. Everyone seems to have a favorite lure. The fresh vs. aged gland debate will go on long after we are gone.
Like Paul said, "keep an open mind". I say never be afraid to make a change just because something IS working for you. This has been a good post and insight from noted lure makers.
The input that others put into post like this one, also help me as a lure maker to rethink and try other things to make a better product. I can't trap across the country anymore and I do believe that some lures are more area specific (sp?) than others.
Great posts guys!!!!!
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#646980 - 03/23/08 09:47 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: High Noon]
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Tactical.20
trapper
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1208
Loc: N.W. Iowa
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Fox gland lure might be less threatening to a young coyote than a boss dog scent. Some young coyotes seem to shy from my territorial sets, but not dirt holes. Calling coyotes you don't want to scare the young wandering ones with a bossy coyote sound.T.20
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#647157 - 03/24/08 05:06 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Tactical.20]
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John Graham
trapper
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 329
Loc: Jordan, Montana
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Well, all I can say about using fresh coyote lure is that I have wiped out whole families (both adult and 6-7 pups) of red fox while trapping in September/early October. This is done while setting for coyotes, and a litter of fox just got in the way.
I have also used it (fresh coyote gland) on sets right at fox dens, and picked up ALL the pups and adults within a 20 yard area. The reason I used coyote, it is maybe all I had, or didn't want to use other lures due to using them on other sets for coyotes. (like flat sets or M-44's)
Maybe the fox in eastern Montana are bold, because I catch them at coyote circles, and areas where I've had coyotes caught on drags (lots of smell) on a regular basis.
I have also had people here for trapping instructions that are surprised to see me luring a fall fox set with coyote gland. When I tell them that I use alot of coyote gland for fox, and haven't seen where it has hurt me, I can see alot of surprised faces. I know its not the way alot of the books tell you, but I have been doing it that way for years, and so have ALOT of other trappers.
I guess its not the best for lure sales, telling people they don't need a bunch of differant gland lures for each animal intended, but it is the truth, at least in my opinion. Like I stated earlier, I prefer bobcat gland when setting for cats, as I like to think it holds them there at the set longer, but maybe its just me. When cats were $`150 I used coyote gland for them alot of the time, and it didn't hurt me a bit. Now their $500 plus, and it makes me feel better to use the cat glands, as I am targeting them more at certain sets. Does it make a differance? probably not, but I haven't took the time to analize (sp?) it all, as I am usually just trying to get more sets out, or check the ones I have.
I think you will find that what works great for a year or two might not later. I hate to draw big conclusions. There was a mention somewhere on here about animal visits and misses, and they said something like "at least the ones they knew about" how true that statement is. Probably one of the best things I've read on here.
I know this has gotten away from the topic at hand, sorry. John
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#647186 - 03/24/08 06:13 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: John Graham]
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MChewk
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 951
Loc: Northern Illinois
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I too prefer a good red fox gland to a coyote gland. But am curious about a "Good" gray fox gland and its use. JC Conners red fox gland really puts up the numbers on my 'line. Good "foxy" odor to it. But like Tactical20 mention a good change up can do wonders on the predators.
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#647490 - 03/24/08 10:20 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: MChewk]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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For 30 years during Michigan's bounty era I lured every set with coyote lures and coyote urine because coyotes bounty was worth $20.00 and fox as well as bobcat brought only a $5.00 bounty. I can honestly say that in all of those years I don't recall seeing evidence by tracks in the sand or snow that even one red fox or one bobcat ever avoided or walked by a set because it was lured with coyote gland/urine odors. As for red fox gland/urine vs coyote gland/urine, if there is any difference in their attraction to one another species I was never able to detect it in years of testing and personal experience. Ace
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#647519 - 03/24/08 10:37 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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Ricky Cox
trapper
Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 276
Loc: Lexington, Texas
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Is there a good book out there for a person that has never made lure before? I've always just bought my lures because it was easier, especially time wise. But, I think it would be fun to play around with making my own just as another part of the trapping experience. I'm just looking for something to give me the basics to start with for now.
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#647614 - 03/24/08 11:42 AM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Ricky Cox]
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Asa Lenon
trapper
Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2476
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
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I believe there are at least two books on lure making, Nick Wyshinski and Russ Carman. I have never read Carman's book but have a copy of Wyshinski's and would recommend it for a beginner. One will become familiarized with most basic ingredients and applications, fixatives and preservatives as well as ageing, etc from the Wyshinski book. Ace
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#647702 - 03/24/08 12:46 PM
Re: Coyote Gland Lure
[Re: Asa Lenon]
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Ricky Cox
trapper
Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 276
Loc: Lexington, Texas
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Thanks for the information Ace.
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