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#638734 - 03/18/08 09:22 PM Night latching for coons?
KSCATMAN Offline
trapper


Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 41
Loc: SE Ks.
I bought a couple dozen duke 1 1/2 coils. I bought them only for coon.Around here fox is like a bigfoot sighting because of our coyote population.In my opinion I think night latching for coyotes is great but should I waste my time for coons?I never have before but was just wondering how many of you guys do?

I did one tonight just to hear the click! If I do these I'll have about 3 more dozen older coon traps I'll do as well just because \:\)
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#638895 - 03/19/08 06:28 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: KSCATMAN]
TexA Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2078
Loc: Estherville, IA
Hmmmmm I can't beleive no one has followed up on your post yet...

I just like my traps with that "click" when they are set properly. A coon will step solidly on the pan, making the trap go off just like a fox or coyote would.

I like mine set-up that way so I'd do 'em all...

If you want to further "improve" them, add jaw laminations and even a center mounted baseplate w/extra swivel(s) too. #9 wire, #20 or #30 Brite nails with the heads cut off or flat steel works equally well for laminations.
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#638980 - 03/19/08 08:17 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: TexA]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
I night latch all of my coon footholds. I want the trap to fire before the coons foot is too far into the jaws so that Its not caught above the foot. A coons front foot is like a slippery piece of wet rubber so I like the jaws to have a sharp edge to them. If you do laminate make sure you have STRONG springs or you will have some pullouts when trapping in water.
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#638987 - 03/19/08 08:22 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
warcraft1975 Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 669
Loc: kansas
night lacthing is not for any one animal. it is so the trap is set the same way every time.time after time.
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#638988 - 03/19/08 08:22 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
Greg H Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Ontario, Canada
What does the term Night Latching refer to I have not heard this before.
Greg
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#639017 - 03/19/08 08:41 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Greg H]
warcraft1975 Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 669
Loc: kansas
it refers to the click sound when the dog and pan are engaged together. it loud enough you can hear it at night so you know that the trap is set right
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#639038 - 03/19/08 08:51 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: warcraft1975]
The Beav Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 777
Loc: Wisconsin
Shorten up the pan notch and you have the same thing but with a lot less work and agravation.
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#639041 - 03/19/08 08:51 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: The Beav]
hartzog69 Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 2273
Loc: Ashe county, NC
dont see how that can be done beav?? how woudl that make the "click"
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#639061 - 03/19/08 09:05 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: warcraft1975]
Greg H Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks Warcraft.
Greg
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#639069 - 03/19/08 09:09 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: hartzog69]
ADC Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 4444
Loc: Iowa
Unless you're setting traps in the dark with no light or have poor eyesite, night-latching is a waist of time IMO. I set the traps in the full notch, look at it from the side and push the pan down to where I want it.

The "click" is cool, but if you file away part of the pan that's part you'll never get back.

~ADC~
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#639076 - 03/19/08 09:14 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Greg H]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
Shortening the pan notch wont give that click sound but will accomplish the same thing as a night latch. The only draw back I had with this method is after some wear and rust you have nothing left to work with and must change the whole pan. It takes no longer to file a notch in the pan notch than to file the entire notch down. I mentioned coon because that is the species KSCATMAN asked about.
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#639093 - 03/19/08 09:22 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
When I'm on the fly I just dont have the time to visually drop the pan down until hair triggered. The night latch gives me a consistant pan drop on every trap and speeds up setting time. I have traps that I night latched over a decade ago that are still setting perfect. It takes but a few seconds to night latch a trap so not sure where the work and agravation enters in. Just take a 1/4" thick flat file, place trap on leg, give the file a few strokes in the pan notch and mission accomplished. It takes 10 seconds or less.
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#639095 - 03/19/08 09:23 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
Muskrat Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 434
Loc: Wisconsin
make quicker work of it with a Dremel tool

gotta remember the Beav is old school . . .
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#639117 - 03/19/08 09:33 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Muskrat]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
How are you making a squared off notch with a dremel tool? Doesnt it make a rounded notch?
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#639124 - 03/19/08 09:34 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 622
Loc: SW MO Carthage
Dave, I grind the teeth off one side of the file,making it safe and it acts as a guide, it helps keep things square and straight. Like you said a few passes and its a done deal, just keep the file parallel with the top of the pan.
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#639131 - 03/19/08 09:37 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
ADC Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 4444
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: Dave Plueger
When I'm on the fly I just dont have the time to visually drop the pan down until hair triggered.


LOL, Even on my traps that are night-latched I still watch it til it drops into the notch. Old habits are hard to break.

Shortening the notch WON'T take out the pan creep, so if use any pan tension on your traps it may not work as well or the same as a night latch.

~ADC~
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#639143 - 03/19/08 09:46 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: ADC]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
Shortening the notch will decrease pan drop required to fire the trap. Night latching gives me consistant pan drop on every trap without having to guess each time. When I set a trap I dont look at all. I hear the click and I know Im good to go. When trapping in water if there is any mud or other material on the pan notch it can decieve you into thinking your set where you want. Night latching takes all the guess work out. To each his own. LOL
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#639155 - 03/19/08 09:53 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
TimberTalker Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 38
Loc: Arkansas
What is the advantage or disadvantage to filing the notch in the pan as opposed to in the dog. Seems like the dog would be cheaper to replace.
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#639165 - 03/19/08 10:00 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: TimberTalker]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
There really is no difference. I have filed a notch on the end of the dog on some of my canine traps and it accomplishes the same thing as a night latch in the pan notch. Only difference is you dont hear a click with the filed dog for some reason.
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#639171 - 03/19/08 10:04 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
ADC Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 4444
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: Dave Plueger
Shortening the notch will decrease pan drop required to fire the trap. Night latching gives me consistant pan drop on every trap without having to guess each time. When I set a trap I dont look at all. I hear the click and I know Im good to go. When trapping in water if there is any mud or other material on the pan notch it can decieve you into thinking your set where you want. Night latching takes all the guess work out. To each his own. LOL


I agree. lol

I was talking of the pan creep for those people who may not know its caused by the hole in the pan being bigger around than the bolt. Here's an exaggerated drawing to show what I mean...



When you raise the pan to full notch the bolt (represented red) shifts to one side of the pan. No matter how tight you have the bolt there will be no pan tension or very little when you begin to push down the pan until this bolt is pushed to the other side of the hole. That's pan creep. So shortening the notch means you don't get to push the pan down to remove the creep, therefore, you can't get a good constant pan tension. Make any sense to anyone?

Re-drilling and using over sized bolts that just fit the holes will help this, at least until the threads rust down some.

Of course if you don't use any pan tension on your traps it wouldn't matter much.

~ADC~
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#639180 - 03/19/08 10:13 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: ADC]
Daniel Edinger Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 3272
Loc: Eastern NC
I like the nightlatch on my coon traps. I like to stomp out a bed....set the trap with the dog burried in the deep part...bed the trap..then lift the loose jaw and lower the pan. I can't do that with a short notch.
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#639197 - 03/19/08 10:26 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Daniel Edinger]
The Beav Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 777
Loc: Wisconsin
Old school Huh! well old school has caught me a ton of fur LOl
I just don't think all this tinkering gets you any more coon.
Square up the end of the dog square up the pan notch file it down to about half of It's original depth. Close up the dog end where It attaches to the post. Bend the trap frame so that when you have a level pan your dog Is fully engaged In the pan notch. Now you have a well tuned trap.
Set the trap place it at the set and your good to go It will be the same every time you set and no guess work.

False drop or pan creep.
If you look at your trap you will notice that the pan posts are wider then the pan shank. So when you tighten the tension bolt the pan posts close up against then pan shank but If you look close you will see they only tighten up on the top edge of the pan shank. This gives you false pan drop. You need to add a thin washer or two between the pan posts to even up the pressure exerted on the faces of the pan shank. This will give you a smooth and even pan drop when the trap Is sprung.
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#639203 - 03/19/08 10:32 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Daniel Edinger]
jim d Offline
trapper


Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 139
Loc: Wampsville, NY
with the short notch, your trap pan will be properly adjusted as soon as you set it. I have used short pan notches, night latches on the pan and on the dog. They all work good. It depends on how much time you want to put into adjusting your traps. A little bit of pan creep (1/8 to 14") doesnt seem to bother any animal. I use the sleepy creek traps now. They come with the paw-I-trip type pan and has no pan slop so when you set it, pan creep is completely removed, especially when you night latch the dog.
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#639208 - 03/19/08 10:35 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: jim d]
TreedaBlackdog Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 221
Loc: Pettis County Missouri
Guys.......this is good stuff....how about some pics added and throwing this in the archives!
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#639225 - 03/19/08 10:50 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: TreedaBlackdog]
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 622
Loc: SW MO Carthage
Back peddle a little and ADC has a pic
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#639279 - 03/19/08 11:07 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Cletis Richards]
The Beav Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 777
Loc: Wisconsin
I'm computer chalanged can't do all that neat stuff but maybe ADC can show the relationship of the pan shank to the pan posts as I explained.
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#639295 - 03/19/08 11:21 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: The Beav]
Muskrat Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 434
Loc: Wisconsin
use a sanding disc on the Dremel and you can make 90-degree angles easily
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#639301 - 03/19/08 11:24 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Muskrat]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
Thanks Muskrat. never thought of the sanding wheel. May have to give it a try.
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#639315 - 03/19/08 11:33 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: The Beav]
ADC Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 4444
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: The Beav
I'm computer chalanged can't do all that neat stuff but maybe ADC can show the relationship of the pan shank to the pan posts as I explained.


;\)



The washer (represented in red) is what you mean to remove the wobble side to side of the pan.

------------------------------------------------

The pan creep I was speaking of is the pan sliding front to back of the hole where the bolt attaches. The red circle shows the bolts position when you push the pan up on the dog in the left image, the right shows its position once its been pushed down to the night-latch. No matter how tight the bolt is it will slip this way easy. Unless you drill it out and use an over sized bolt because the hole in the pan is bigger than the holes in the pan posts. Like I said with a short notch you can't push the pan down any to eliminate this movement so its impossible to get consistent pan tension.



~ADC~

Edited by ADC (03/19/08 12:02 PM)
Edit Reason: added a picture
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#639389 - 03/19/08 12:28 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: ADC]
Muskrat Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 434
Loc: Wisconsin
Dave,

Careful with the sanding disc, the steel literally "melts" away very quickly.

I use my "wally readers" and a steady hand to make these ninety-degree cuts. Sure works like a charm!
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#639410 - 03/19/08 12:47 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Cletis Richards]
hands on Offline
trapper


Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 453
Loc: minnesota
 Originally Posted By: Cletis Richards
Dave, I grind the teeth off one side of the file,making it safe and it acts as a guide, it helps keep things square and straight. Like you said a few passes and its a done deal, just keep the file parallel with the top of the pan.


Do you mean you are grinding the flat top part?
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#640436 - 03/19/08 09:10 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: hands on]
ADC Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 4444
Loc: Iowa
ttt
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#640449 - 03/19/08 09:24 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: ADC]
Cletis Richards Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 622
Loc: SW MO Carthage
yes the wide part on one side only it acts as a guide, because it's smooth and will not remove any metal

Edited by Cletis Richards (03/19/08 09:24 PM)
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#640483 - 03/19/08 09:49 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Cletis Richards]
buckskinner Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 68
Loc: Louisiana
I thought about this post again while putting night-latch's on a bunch of 1.75 Vic.'s. The question was do YOU night latch your coon traps as well as your fox or yote trap's. I don't. Can't really say why I don't but I hardly spend any time at all on coon traps. I think probally I should but I consider myself a canine trapper. I'm always working on yote traps and want them perfect, so why not the coon traps. I intend on targeting coon heavily, early next season then, hit the land after deer season. So maybe I'll start working on the coon traps as I have time. I used to deer hunt so much I wouldn't start trapping till deer season was over anyway. Coon were always a side line, something to set for just as I happened by a likely place, so maybe this year I'll show the coon a bit more respect and properly adjust and tune even a coon trap.
Robert
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#642786 - 03/21/08 10:46 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: buckskinner]
KSCATMAN Offline
trapper


Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 41
Loc: SE Ks.
buckskinner,You pretty much nail what I was talking about.I play around with all my Coyote and cat traps but have never really messed with my coon traps.Why, I don't know.
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#642823 - 03/21/08 11:10 AM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: KSCATMAN]
Ely Offline
trapper


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 243
Loc: Somerset area, Pa.
In water sets ive never seen the need. Coon arent shy and stomp around with their feet sinking in the mud all the time. Doesnt matter if the pan creeps 1/2", the way coon stomp around.
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#643034 - 03/21/08 01:34 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Ely]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper


Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 677
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
If you allow the coon's foot to push the pan all the way down before firing it will often have a hold above the foot which is something you dont want with coon. By having little pan drop you are more likely to catch the coon accross the pad of the foot. Seldom do coon escape when a perfect pad catch is made and the tendancy for them to pull out decreases as well. Some coon trappers install a pan stop besides night latching for this very reason. A bolt is installed up from the base which only allows the pan to drop enough to fire the trap. We all know what coon sometimes do when they are caught too high.
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#643073 - 03/21/08 02:08 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: Dave Plueger]
tmrschessie Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1746
Loc: Near Red Cloud,Nebraska
Excellent drawings ADC, Really brought the point home. Thanks. Tom
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#643214 - 03/21/08 03:36 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: tmrschessie]
The Beav Offline
trapper


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 777
Loc: Wisconsin
I belive the use of the pan stop was more to cut down on the amount of space under the jaws to help with the chewing problem, not to give you more even pad catches.
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#643231 - 03/21/08 03:43 PM Re: Night latching for coons? [Re: The Beav]
Ely Offline
trapper


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 243
Loc: Somerset area, Pa.
The traps gonna fire where you have it set to fire. A pan stop isnt gonna make it fire any different
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