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#636326 - 03/17/08 03:15 PM fox habits...debate away
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	You always see coyote debates on here, but not so much fox, or bobcat for that matter but almost everyone agrees about cats. i've wondered why there aren't as many debates about the habits and reasoning of fox. i know in general a red and gray is almost like night and day, but does a fox out west re act the same as a fox here in the south or in the east. how about north? here's is one example...why does a fox leave his "mark" for you? very seldom will i have a set where a coyote crapped on me, except for remakes, lol. but for fox it seems it happens a lot. by alot i mean maybe once a week. what is the reason for this??? i have a pet fox and i watch him quite a bit. i know he aint wild compared to one actually out there, but he is still a fox, just like my lynx i had for 11 years was still a cat. not a bobcat but they sure have a lot of similarities. now my fox, i've watched him pee on his food before he eats it, i've seen him bury it then pee on the hole. i've also seen him dig it up then pee. and the thing that intrigues me the most is alot of times after he eats he will poop right where his food was, be it in his normal food bowl, or where i might have thrown a beaver foot on the ground to him, or what ever. so does any one have any insight on why a fox would crap on his food spots? _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636343 - 03/17/08 03:22 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
GritGuy GritGuy trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1250 Loc: Magna, Utah	I think them animals are short in the cranial area LOL, always had them leaving scat at my sets as well when I was first learning how to nab them, after I got the hang of it they just left it any where !! _________________________
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#636354 - 03/17/08 03:26 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: GritGuy]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	lol grit. them things sure out smart me. i had more missed than catches on them this past year. i'm gonna kick their but next year, lol. _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636367 - 03/17/08 03:34 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
Brent11 Brent11 trapper Registered: 12/12/07 Posts: 16 Loc: VA	jlord can u send me a pic of ur pet fox codyoby2000@yahoo.com _________________________ Brent A Corrinne "Dead animals dont need fur anyways"
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#636373 - 03/17/08 03:37 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
corky corky trapper Registered: 12/29/06 Posts: 59 Loc: Three Lakes,WI	I have a wild red fox hanging out near my house. Showed up 2 weeks after season closed lol. I throw out fish guts, etc. for it to eat. I have seen him 3 times during daylight and each time he has finished eating he has pooped within 5 feet of where I put the food and then left the area. It always was after it ate, never before. I thought he was wierd but maybe that is normal behavior.
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#636380 - 03/17/08 03:41 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: corky]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	here is a pic of him. _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636382 - 03/17/08 03:41 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
GritGuy GritGuy trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1250 Loc: Magna, Utah	My largest mistake was setting the trap to far away from my lure or bait hole. Once I tightened that up I was pretty well hanging them up. I also was not as conventional in my sets as most. I'd go out in the field and find single sage brush or giant bushes and never set the fence rows or dirt road crossings. I never blocked my sets heavily, always allowed the bush to do the blocking, put the set in deep under the bush and they would dig for it instead of just step on it, work every time. Though I suppose now there was no need for any blocking on them sets LOL Mostly cause of the competition here around the city, If I could pick them up before they got to these areas I had them and they would hunker down in the bush's until I arrived. Was many times I was in the field with hunters and taking my harvest right under their noses. As well as other trappers, I do the same thing with most other animals as well. _________________________
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#636391 - 03/17/08 03:44 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: GritGuy]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	i set tight and hardly no blocking, but foot prints in the dirt pattern alot and no fox. lol caught a few but missed more. my feeling is if you have/had there attention long enough to get them to smell the hole you should catch them.... _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636422 - 03/17/08 03:55 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
GritGuy GritGuy trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1250 Loc: Magna, Utah	I would like to see some others post on this as well, not so much form the east, as I'm sure there are a bit of difference's between them, but some from the west as well. I found out that I was also using way to much lure, I dropped that down to just a smell, a squirt of urine, and switch with a bait at the sets, but I always use the urine, even when not having any lure or bait. I always use a flat set, never no large giant eye appeal hole, wanted them using the nose, mostly so people did not see or notice the set as well, out hunting birds with the dogs. I would set off of the trails about 30 or so yards at the nearest large bush or mound of anything, so when caught they were not flashing on the trail to get stolen. Can't count how many times that worked they would just lay there until you got in their comfort zone, but them oh boy did they get loopy LOL _________________________
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#636449 - 03/17/08 04:16 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: GritGuy]
lrjakes lrjakes trapper Registered: 01/03/07 Posts: 1339 Loc: MD 36 years old	u talkin reds or greys out there Grit? _________________________ Trampas Para Ratas
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#636475 - 03/17/08 04:33 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: lrjakes]
GritGuy GritGuy trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1250 Loc: Magna, Utah	Reds, I got no greys near enough for me to try for them, at least where it's legal for me to be LOL _________________________
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#636480 - 03/17/08 04:40 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: GritGuy]
Gary Gary trapper Registered: 01/08/07 Posts: 8405 Loc: Indiana	fox are STUPID, i have seen alot of marking from yotes as well as fox, i think it has to do with many things, as far as fox, set ya trap deeper, dip over pan, remake pile up debris, set trap between debris and attractor, shallow spot over pan, dead fox $;\)$ $\:\)$ _________________________
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#636505 - 03/17/08 04:55 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Gary]
PSB1011 PSB1011 trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 689 Loc: PA	SE Pennsylvania redfox are the smartest mammal walking the Earth.They eat dumb coyotes for breakfast,and stupid greyfox for snacks,thats why we have none of either.he he
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#636515 - 03/17/08 05:00 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Gary]
lennitrapper lennitrapper trapper Registered: 01/14/07 Posts: 1170 Loc: south east pa	i m no pro but my opninion on this is they are telling other fox that there is nothing there or who got it...maby its just me but i notice alot of poopin at old sets that i pulled the traps,the hole will be dug out and poop ether in it or right in front of it..i know i am probaly wrong but thats just what i notice about poopin fox, i dont have many that poop at my sets,unless they do it while they are tryin to get outta my trap $\:\)$ _________________________ "Volunteer firefighters,unpaid professionals"
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#636516 - 03/17/08 05:01 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: PSB1011]
Seaharvester Seaharvester trapper Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 218 Loc: South Jersey	No expert on fox, but I know they really rely on their nose, and can smell better then a deer. I think you have to insist on scent free sets to be consistent.
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#636537 - 03/17/08 05:15 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Seaharvester]
Gary Gary trapper Registered: 01/08/07 Posts: 8405 Loc: Indiana	have you ever called in a fox/yote, and had it get so close, then urinate or poo ? i believe there are diff reasons, but in that case they are markin to return later, claim the area _________________________
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#636544 - 03/17/08 05:19 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Seaharvester]
DANE DANE trapper Registered: 01/04/07 Posts: 303 Loc: southwestern PA	I can't speak for fox in other parts of the country but in southwestern pa there is nothing to catching them except location and a decent fox population as far as scent free goes well that idea flew out the window a few years ago.I caught adult fox in sets while smoking,bare handed after working in the fur shed with blood and fat on my boots.Scent isn't a problem in this part of the country I would bet my method might not work in a pristine enviroment.This is my input on this debate.Dane _________________________ I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run
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#636550 - 03/17/08 05:23 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Gary]
GritGuy GritGuy trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1250 Loc: Magna, Utah	I'd have to dis-agree on the scent free idea with Reds at least. I've trapped them with dirty traps, clean ones, bare handed ones, most types of stuff you would think it would scare away a garbage guy LOL Never seems to bother them, they always end up sitting there waiting for me. I would agree that it has something to do with marking the area, as most canines will do this as well, when ever something new shows up in their nose, they always leave a few drops. Defecating is something else I think though, it may be something in the lures that cause this, or even the bait, makes them trip the empty switch, you got me, just know they do it !! _________________________
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#636560 - 03/17/08 05:27 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: GritGuy]
lennitrapper lennitrapper trapper Registered: 01/14/07 Posts: 1170 Loc: south east pa	i think the rust/metal smell thing for reds is a joke too..i found a trap i dropped th eseason before and just set it and caught no die no wax,still caught _________________________ "Volunteer firefighters,unpaid professionals"
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#636587 - 03/17/08 05:40 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
High Noon High Noon trapper Registered: 08/04/07 Posts: 324 Loc: East TN.	Originally Posted By: j lord lol grit. them things sure out smart me. i had more missed than catches on them this past year. i'm gonna kick their but next year, lol. What type of set are you using? I trap em the same way I traped them up north and don't have any problems. The again I got my own line of lures $\:D$ _________________________ Have a fragrant day! (you can take that one of two ways:0) http://www.highnoondeerscents.com
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#636605 - 03/17/08 05:46 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
Honeydog Honeydog trapper Registered: 04/14/07 Posts: 23 Loc: Masury , Ohio	I just read Charles Dobbins book on land sets. He says that a fox will urinate on a hole after it has taken the food out of it so he didn't use urine with bait at a dirt hole most of the time , because he thought it was a signal to other fox that there was nothing left in the hole. He said that a fox will still sniff at the hole , but will not dig at it.
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#636646 - 03/17/08 06:01 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Honeydog]
lennitrapper lennitrapper trapper Registered: 01/14/07 Posts: 1170 Loc: south east pa	not to down dobbins but i know fox dig even if there is pee,i dont want to know that but some of them dont get caught and dog my sets out _________________________ "Volunteer firefighters,unpaid professionals"
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#636740 - 03/17/08 06:39 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: lennitrapper]
Jtrapper Jtrapper trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 7372 Loc: Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...	here's is one example...why does a fox leave his "mark" for you? They DON'T IF you CATCH them! You just suck is all ,lol. but for fox it seems it happens a lot. by alot i mean maybe once a week. what is the reason for this??? YOU SUCK! so does any one have any insight on why a fox would crap on his food spots? Cause they are STUPID! Anything else ya need to know lordy? lmao _________________________ I ALMOST survived SmackDown Tupelo '08!
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#636771 - 03/17/08 06:49 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Jtrapper]
Nightwish Nightwish trapper Registered: 09/30/07 Posts: 582 Loc: PA	Just some quick observations, on reds: 1. Fox pee on their food and where they bury it? Just goes to show you the importance of good fox pee on the line... 2. Fox run almost 100% on curiousity until it gets REAL cold..or when the breed begins. Curiousity is their worst enemy... 3. The Iowa fox studies showed the same thing...fox pee on their food and mark their territory a lot. It also showed they could be re-trapped with the same lure by the same trapper...as often as 4 times. They are very simple creatures... _________________________ http://www.nightwish.com http://www.johnwcrawford.com
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#636774 - 03/17/08 06:49 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Jtrapper]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	yeah how about some good answers dang it...lmao i know i suck at fox trapping, thats why i'm trying to get inside their heads, lol. there seems to be about as much in there heads a dang cat. almost as dumb and just about as curious. posted by gritguy: ----- Defecating is something else I think though, it may be something in the lures that cause this, or even the bait, makes them trip the empty switch, you got me, just know they do it !! i believe it is a "switch" thing that triggers it, but its not the same thing that triggers it each time. different lures, different foods(in the case of my fox). i know i know your suppose to catch them before it happens but i still want to know. i like to have drove myself crazy trying to figure out cats and otter, followin tracks for a while wondering what the heck are they doin. all i figured out is quit trying to figure them out and just makes sets in the areas they seem to want to go. lol _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636816 - 03/17/08 07:01 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
Gary Gary trapper Registered: 01/08/07 Posts: 8405 Loc: Indiana	would love to sit down and talk with ya sumtime Jlord, i like the topic, but nothing is cut and dry when talkin trappin, for one, i believe many times a fox approaches a set, and somthin just isnt right, wind, car approaching, sound of somthing coming through brush, etc, etc, the fox is interested and leaves its calling card and beats feet, and will return later, even if the fox has worked the set and hasnt been caught, chances are great that if it leaves a present ya will get another crack at it later, as far as urine, i didnt use a drop of fox urine this season, to see how it would work out, from what i could see it didnt hurt the results at all _________________________
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#636827 - 03/17/08 07:05 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
Marty Harmon Marty Harmon trapper Registered: 01/02/07 Posts: 368 Loc: north Mississippi	Why do fox poop around Jlords traps? Cause he scares the pa-dookie out of them. Just look at his own pet fox, poor thangs so scared he's white as a sheet. LOL I think they tee tee and poo poo on their food because they're so ***** they believe a different fox won't eat anything but their own **. _________________________ My protruding parts not caught by a trap*yet**ears, nose, and left testicle.
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#636833 - 03/17/08 07:10 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Marty Harmon]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	lmao marty. they aint scared of me...now i know one trapper that scares every animal. he just pulls up to a property and whistles and next mornin just starts giving them the good news! they just give up, knowing they don't stand a chance!!! _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636839 - 03/17/08 07:13 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	also, how many of you have observed fox in the wild?? mine, on certain lures or baits he just runs up to them and licks the heck out of them, lol. others he will take his sweet little time on gettin there and be skiddish as can be. and some just scare him bad, but he still will eventually get up there. i've caught this thing about half a dozen cage traps, lmao. i can't use it anymore cause he aint even skiddish of it and just goes right in. _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636855 - 03/17/08 07:21 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
Marty Harmon Marty Harmon trapper Registered: 01/02/07 Posts: 368 Loc: north Mississippi	I saw one thing this year that I'd never seen before. I was walking down an old logging road to check two sets I had out. It was sprinkling rain. When I got fifty yards or so from the sets I could hear barking and growling noises coming from ahead. When I got close enough to see what was going on, there were two grey fox fighting. I had both traps on drags, so I thought that they had gotten caught, then drug the traps over to each other and started fighting. When I got about twenty yards from the commotion, one of the fox looked up and took off, he wasn't in a trap. WHen I checked the area, it looked like the fox hadn't been in the trap over a few minutes. I've seen dogs react this way when leading another dog into a pen, etc. so now I'm guessing that when I occasionally run up on a fox that's chewed up, it might not have been a dog, possibly another fox? _________________________ My protruding parts not caught by a trap***yet**ears, nose, and left testicle.
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#636871 - 03/17/08 07:27 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Marty Harmon]
Jtrapper Jtrapper trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 7372 Loc: Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...	Know dogs and coyotes will kill one of their own sometimes that is in a trap thrashing around, didn't know that about fox. Imagine though a grouchy female will get ill if her ol man is foot dragging about getting back to the house, just watch women at convention's and you'll observe this female trait quite often, lol. Why I no longer have a tail, lol. _________________________ I ALMOST survived SmackDown Tupelo '08!
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#636878 - 03/17/08 07:29 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Marty Harmon]
j lord j lord trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 4106 Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown	lol interesting, i bet that was cool to see, bet you wish you would have sooner huh? i walked up to a fox set that had a coyote laying there asleep, i seen him, kept walkin up and he finally heard me, looked around, jumped up and just kept on going. he had popped the jaws on a #3 duke and just laid down, lol. he wasn't even in the trap when i walked up. got to about ten feet before he heard me, i was trying to sneek up on him to see his reaction when he seen me, lol. also had two silver fox fightin over one set..... _________________________ James -------- I survived the timeout of Feb '07 Runnin' With J Lord two disk set
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#636885 - 03/17/08 07:33 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: j lord]
Deadfox Deadfox trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 172 Loc: Pa	Most of the time if you have two sets like a dirthole with bait lure urine and a post set the fox will get excited when he See's the dirthole and he'll go to the post set to go.....crapping on your set can just be an excitement reaction or he may just not like what is in the hole, I no they will crap on just a fresh dug dirthole with no lure bait or urine even there,guess there just telling the next one he was there first..... _________________________ http://furfinsfeathers.proboards41.com/index.cgi?
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#636963 - 03/17/08 08:13 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Deadfox]
Mark June Mark June trapper Registered: 05/17/07 Posts: 301 Loc: Ft. Calhoun, Nebraska	As a biologist who has studied canids (mostly yotes) I can help a bit here... Fox during our field observation studies where you physically sit and watch them in the field investigate odors spent an average of 8 minutes at a scent station area (different attractors and differing presentations made minor differences) and USUALLY urinated and left scat at spots they spent this much time at. When they spent less than 4 to 5 minutes at a set they usually did NOT defecate BUT did usually pee. So the importance of attractors that holds their attention was established. MOST major studies of red fox show they do not urinate on their food caches in the wild but usually do in captivity. Urine is used to mark "near" the food however in the wild and that's WHY I do not put red fox urine down the dirt hole BUT mimic nature and put it on a scat or corn cob or little stone near the trap and attractors. Maybe at 2 o'clock or so. I use red fox even on coyote baited/lured sets because in nature the red fox is prone to mark near these baited spots whereby coyotes generally don't. Hope this helps. Mark _________________________ http://www.markjuneslures.com
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#637021 - 03/17/08 08:34 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Mark June]
Riverotter2 Riverotter2 trapper Registered: 01/28/07 Posts: 228 Loc: Tuscaloosa, Alabama	I can see why you don't get many fox your traps are already full with the big money. And two at a time ain't you lucky.
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#637027 - 03/17/08 08:38 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Mark June]
PSB1011 PSB1011 trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 689 Loc: PA	I almost always,if not always put my fox urine in the hole.
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#637036 - 03/17/08 08:40 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: PSB1011]
Jtrapper Jtrapper trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 7372 Loc: Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...	If i got a dirthole set around you can bet a few away i'll also have a blended in set with either gland lure or urine on it one. The dirthole's are for those valuable silver fox we have, lol. _________________________ I ALMOST survived SmackDown Tupelo '08!
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#637040 - 03/17/08 08:42 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Nightwish]
PSB1011 PSB1011 trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 689 Loc: PA	Originally Posted By: Nightwish Just some quick observations, on reds: 1. Fox pee on their food and where they bury it? Just goes to show you the importance of good fox pee on the line... 2. Fox run almost 100% on curiousity until it gets REAL cold..or when the breed begins. Curiousity is their worst enemy... 3. The Iowa fox studies showed the same thing...fox pee on their food and mark their territory a lot. It also showed they could be re-trapped with the same lure by the same trapper...as often as 4 times. They are very simple creatures... Im trying to figure how you know fox 100% run on curiousity.And what tempature is real cold?And what changes their mind when it gets real cold?
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#637079 - 03/17/08 08:57 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: PSB1011]
lrjakes lrjakes trapper Registered: 01/03/07 Posts: 1339 Loc: MD 36 years old	Lol Phil, I would love to hear your thoughts on fox populations. Especially pertaining to diseased, sustained harvest, and coyote pressure. if you ever get a chance to share some of that knowledge please do. Heck, if you made a video of just that, i would buy it. I have a feelin you could teach some fox biologists a thing or two. Not lookin for how you trap em as much as overall health of the resource. _________________________ Trampas Para Ratas
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#637081 - 03/17/08 08:58 PM Re: fox habits...debate away [Re: Nightwish]
goldy goldy trapper Registered: 12/31/07 Posts: 1210 Loc: minnesota	Originally Posted By: Nightwish Just some quick observations, on reds: pee on their food and mark their territory a lot. It also showed they could be re-trapped with the same lure by the same trapper...as often as 4 times. They are very simple creatures... I had a gray fox that popped a jaw out of my trap when I approached. Two days later I had the same fox in the same set with the same lure. I could tell because I had him by the other foot, the opposite foot was skinned up, obviously by my trap.
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