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#565167 - 02/06/08 10:27 PM Substituting Ambrette for rat glands?
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	I know a couple guys that do this and hey say they have seen no difference in reaction. Tell me have you tried this and what were your observations? I use ambrette but for a different lure purpose. Let me know what you think..Im somewhat skeptical Edited by KYBOY (02/06/08 10:46 PM) _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565219 - 02/06/08 10:55 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	I have noticed that there is a marked difference in reaction from musk amberette and authentic muskrat musk. They both have their place, but in my opinion, they aren't interchangeable. _________________________
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#565227 - 02/06/08 10:57 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	Kinda figured that. Thanks. Ive noticed several places list amberette musk as a substitute for rat glands. Ive always been skeptical of this myself, but Ive never tested to see a difference myself. Good rat glands are one of my very favorite ingrediants. Edited by KYBOY (02/06/08 10:58 PM) _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565237 - 02/06/08 11:03 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	Authentic rat glands is one of the finest lure ingredients you can use. Beaver castor ranks right up there too - lol. _________________________
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#565247 - 02/06/08 11:09 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
possum skinner possum skinner trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 2393 Loc: Virginia 38 - act 10 - feel 68	I agree ... it's not much that doesn't show interest in the heavenly aroma of castor & rat glands To my nose ambrette had a "sharper" order compared to nice mellow sweet smelling rat glands _________________________ You know why? 'Cause I'm a professional $;\)$
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#565254 - 02/06/08 11:17 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: possum skinner]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	possum skinner, you ever notice that when grinding rat glands that they smell like cardboard after a gallon or two, but if you come back a day later to smell them they have that mellow wonderful rat gland smell???? _________________________
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#565261 - 02/06/08 11:20 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	I just noticed that today. I harvested some a few days ago. Boy they smell fine....I make a lure for myself that is based with rat glands and castor. Ive caught just about everything on it. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565269 - 02/06/08 11:23 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	KY, the spring rats should be putting on their finest glands starting now. Its a great time to harvest them, but most states don't have a trapping season when the glands are at their best. _________________________
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#565275 - 02/06/08 11:25 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	I know. Our season ends the 28th of this month. Ive got a few small ones in the last couple weeks but the ones I got the other day where big and full. Id sure like to have a quart or two of them,LOL...I cant find anywhere to buy glands in bulk to get a decent price. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565278 - 02/06/08 11:28 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
Cletis Richards Cletis Richards trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 622 Loc: SW MO Carthage	Are they just starting to fill out is ky, Paul when are they the most prime. One of the early dec rats pod had just a little bite like the size of two matchheads. _________________________ April 5, 1948 model
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#565279 - 02/06/08 11:28 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	Decent price for rat glands? There's no such thing. I've been paying just under a hundred a quart, _________________________
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#565282 - 02/06/08 11:32 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	Well Paul your beating my price by a bit. I did just find some a lot cheaper than I was paying but im still out around $52 for 16oz but I usually only buy around 4 ounces at a time. I dont go thru them like you do,LOL _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565285 - 02/06/08 11:35 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	My biggest supplier gets $340 a gallon for them. I bought 2 gallons last spring and will probably get 4 gallons this coming spring. They're a necessity in my formulations and I just gotta have em. _________________________
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#565287 - 02/06/08 11:38 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	Yea, I understand that. I use them in about everything I make. I just dont make near as much as you do,LOL...I really need some red fox glands but I gag when I think about having to buy them by the ounce. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565289 - 02/06/08 11:39 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
possum skinner possum skinner trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 2393 Loc: Virginia 38 - act 10 - feel 68	lol ... you fellas sound a lil too familiar with sniffin cardboard i haven't hit the rats yet this year ... only caught a few here and there ... the drought has really put a hurtin on a few of my "go to" locations for easy pickens ... i'm gonna be wishing and wanting for some rat glands myself if'n i don't nail'em in the next couple weeks ... still got about a pint and a half i'm sitting on $\:\)$ ky- too bad wal mart don't have a lure ingredient section ... "great value" brand rat glands bargain priced _________________________ You know why? 'Cause I'm a professional $;\)$
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#565291 - 02/06/08 11:42 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: possum skinner]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	pint and a half you suck,LOL ..Weasel glands are something else that hurts bad. I dont use a lot but at $6.50-$7 an ounce I cant stand to...man they work though. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565293 - 02/06/08 11:43 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	Im gonna be hurtin for castor this year from the looks of it. I lost about 10 pounds when a freezer went down and the drought really hurt the beaver harvest around here this season. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565298 - 02/06/08 11:51 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	I'm hurtin for castor too. How much red fox glands are you needing KYBOY? _________________________
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#565305 - 02/06/08 11:56 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	I can get by with a pint Paul, maybe even a bit less. I know that sounds funny but even that gets expensive when you have to pay $4 an ounce for it. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565309 - 02/06/08 11:58 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	I can take care of you at less than that cost.... if you like the way my glands are put up. They work great for my formulations, but I don't know about yours. _________________________
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#565310 - 02/06/08 11:59 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	LOL, Im sure if they work for you they'll work for an ameture like me. Ill Pm you. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565312 - 02/07/08 12:00 AM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	Cletis the glands are at their best in this area in March. _________________________
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#565317 - 02/07/08 12:05 AM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
Cletis Richards Cletis Richards trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 622 Loc: SW MO Carthage	We should be the same, I,m 55 mile n of Ark and 30 e of KS, but our season closed Jan 31. Thans Paul _________________________ April 5, 1948 model
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#565462 - 02/07/08 07:00 AM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Cletis Richards]
Asa Lenon Asa Lenon trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2476 Loc: Gulliver, Michigan	Paul wrote....Authentic rat glands is one of the finest lure ingredients you can use. Beaver castor ranks right up there too I agree 100%. Both are what my Dad used to term "commom sense lure ingredients." Musk Ambrette is a fine ingredient too, its attractive to every animal species I can think of and is a secondary replacement to 'rat musk in canine and bobcat lures but one isn't going to fool a muskrat with it. KY Boy, you didn't specify which animals you were refering to when you asked the comparison question! Ace
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#565638 - 02/07/08 09:36 AM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Asa Lenon]
MChewk MChewk trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 951 Loc: Northern Illinois	Good stuff for a "rookie" lure/bait maker...me! I would love to see a pictoral on where and how to remove rat glands...Kyboy any possible way you could do that? Asa are their any rat glands in that rat gland you make? You know that one that smells so good you could spread on toast in the am..lol
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#565682 - 02/07/08 09:59 AM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: MChewk]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	MChewk, next one I catch Ill do that. Ace I was refering to predator lures, thanks. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#565778 - 02/07/08 11:03 AM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Asa Lenon Asa Lenon trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2476 Loc: Gulliver, Michigan	MChewk asked...Asa are their any rat glands in that rat gland you make? You know that one that smells so good you could spread on toast in the am..lol Yes, pure yellow musk in the formulation, its what makes the lure the golden color it is. The 'rat musk is also the ingredient that probably makes the Muskrat Super All call so attractive to mink and fox. Ace
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#565923 - 02/07/08 12:43 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Asa Lenon]
possum skinner possum skinner trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 2393 Loc: Virginia 38 - act 10 - feel 68	MChewk - This might help ya $\:\)$ _________________________ You know why? 'Cause I'm a professional $;\)$
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#566005 - 02/07/08 01:27 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: possum skinner]
MChewk MChewk trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 951 Loc: Northern Illinois	Thanks Guys...still learning.
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#566059 - 02/07/08 02:02 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: MChewk]
BrianRoberts BrianRoberts trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 379 Loc: Central IL	I've for the past 5 years tried the Artifical Rat glands first introduced to me by Dave Edwards, while I didn't take to them right away they are as good as he said they were, I'm pretty much done with real Rat Glands, except for 1 or 2 lures that I haven't had a good chance to test the "fake ones" out in yet, I'm down to buying 2-3 pints of the real ones a year....B... _________________________ It Is What It is!
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#566234 - 02/07/08 04:29 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: BrianRoberts]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	I sure would like to get my hands on Dave's formula for those artificial rat glands. That product worked great. I still have about a pint of it left, but probably will never use it.... cause it was Dave's. When I tested two of my canine lures long ago, I tried substituting ambrette musk for rat glands. The lures with the ambrette musk still attracted the canines, but they didn't seem to have that digging reaction like they did with the lures with the rat glands. For my formulations, the genuine rat glands work better for me. They're expensive as heck, but I like how they work. _________________________
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#566323 - 02/07/08 05:12 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
KYBOY KYBOY trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 3374 Loc: East, Kentucky	Thats what matters. When your supplying a product to satisfy a consumer even if it costs a bit more its best. Id guess having happy customers is a absolut must in the lure buisness. Without repeat customers one would have no buisness. _________________________ Take life by the throat, then choke it until it spits up what you want!
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#566385 - 02/07/08 05:43 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: KYBOY]
Asa Lenon Asa Lenon trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2476 Loc: Gulliver, Michigan	KYBOY wrote...Id guess having happy customers is a absolut must in the lure buisness. Without repeat customers one would have no buisness I guess that must be what happened to hundreds of lure makers that have come and gone over the years I've been at it. I suspect that most had inferior lures and/or poor service and some that just rode the fair weather fur boom of the late 70's early 80's and onward to more lucrative persuits. Ace
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#566408 - 02/07/08 05:58 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Asa Lenon]
CoonDuke CoonDuke trapper Registered: 12/26/06 Posts: 286 Loc: PA	I don't want to take this off topic...but what are you guys tincturing ambrette crystals with? I tried glycol, and it didn't seem to do a real good job. _________________________ PTA Life ~ NCTA ~ NTA ~ FTA ~ NRA
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#566467 - 02/07/08 06:25 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: CoonDuke]
Asa Lenon Asa Lenon trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 2476 Loc: Gulliver, Michigan	Glycol is usless as far as I'm concerned. I tincture with 100 proof vodka. In some of my paste lures that call for ambrette I use the crystals straight, the odor like dried castor will permeate the lure's base when aged for a year or so. Ambrette is a very mild smelling ingredient at face value but will fool one who adds too much in a formuala once it has aged for a while. All one will smell is ambrette when too much is added even though other ingredients in the formula seem much more powerful. Ambrette is very permeating, I suppose that is why it is used in expensive perfumes. Ace
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#566615 - 02/07/08 07:13 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Asa Lenon]
Paul Dobbins Paul Dobbins trapper Registered: 12/22/06 Posts: 2876 Loc: Golsboro, North Carolina	LOL - Asa, I made that mistake of using too much ambrette early on, and is a lesson I won't forget. _________________________
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#568305 - 02/08/08 06:00 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Paul Dobbins]
white marlin white marlin trapper Registered: 01/04/07 Posts: 213 Loc: SW PA	ttt. Great discussion! _________________________ "We didn't come all the way out here just to 'feel them on the line.' "
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#568335 - 02/08/08 06:16 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: white marlin]
Bob Jameson Bob Jameson trapper Registered: 12/25/06 Posts: 1367 Loc: SW Pa	Glycol is not a good tincturing material.I agree quite unamimously regarding ambrette musk crystals. _________________________ http://www.jamesonsultrablend.com
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#568457 - 02/08/08 07:17 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: Bob Jameson]
OZARK TRAPPER 2 OZARK TRAPPER 2 trapper Registered: 09/17/07 Posts: 72 Loc: Eastern IA	Very good topic I will try the vodka. What about ketone and tibetene crystals? Will vodka be better than glycol?Thanks for tips guys its great the way you all give out info like this.
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#568586 - 02/08/08 08:10 PM Re: Substituting Ambrette for rat glands? [Re: OZARK TRAPPER 2]
RdFx RdFx trapper Registered: 12/23/06 Posts: 1053 Loc: Wisconsin	Take some real rat glands and some ambrette and dip a seperate q-tip or what ever you want in each pure mixture... put outside exposed to weather elements. After a month or two , go up and see which one you can smell with the human nose!
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