Civit musk

Do bobcats like it in a lure? Obvious smell or very slight?

Ok, how about a tad in baits?

By 'civet' are you referring to our native spotted skunks or the African beast?

Sorry, imitation African civit.

I use it in a bait solution I make . I use an eye dropper full into a pint of bait solution to treat a gallon of bait . its only a trace odor.

I like to melt the real stuff into sun rendered skunk oil. double boiler method.

Mr kytrapper, Bobcats and canines are very attracted to civet musk.......I often use it as a substitute for skunk essence for early season fisher and 'cat lure..... it is a very good enhancement in glands, lure, and baits.......A couple of the lure and bait dealers here have some authentic civet musk tincture.

I use the tincture that I make from the paste in a couple of my lures. I use olive oil as the tincturing agent.

I prefer authentic civet musk for our formulation work. It is becoming quite expensive to the point it may be passed over and substituted with another musk due to its cost and importation issues. It is however a good ingredient for all predators on the prowl.

Mr. Paul Dobbins, I'm not sure if you recall, several years ago I purchased an ounce of your civet paste from you at the NYSTA convention. As we were discussing our preferred solvents and method for tincturing the paste I believe that you told me you used mineral oil at that time. I can still remember the somewhat puzzled look on your face when I stated I use extra virgin olive oil......Anyhow I got a lot of use from that tinctured 1 ounce of paste and no doubt have caught a bunch of critters by incorporating it into some of my favorite concoctions. GOOD civet is without a doubt my favorite lure enhancer!

https://youtu.be/Qp-vi2xvAS8

When it comes to tinturing and fixing products the perfume forums are a wealth of knowledge. They have been at it for centuries.

Cool video, thanks for posting Yes sir

Mr Bob Jameson, I whole heartedly agree that authentic "True" civet musk is the way to go for a better end product. Me being a hobby dabbler I don't have the cost constraints with producing a quality product at a marketable cost.

Have you ever tried blending a small amount of civet musk paste or tincture with a quantity of good artificial/synthetic? From my testing and observations, I have formed an opinion and belief that blending even a small quantity of "true" civet to a quantity of good quality artificial civet material enhances its value in formulation by incorporating the ANAMALIC value the "true" civet material has, and that the synthetic lacks. (this also holds true for Tonquin and other musk). The key is to make sure the two forms (authentic / artificial) are compatible and will blend together. I tincture civet musk paste in extra virgin olive oil and had to figure out when the artificial being used is not oil based you will have to dissolve the civet musk paste in a solvent like diethyl phthalate first .(thanks to Russ Carmen for the diethyl phthalate tip).....I will admit that the blend is not quite equally effective as the straight "true" civet but IS quite noticeably more effective than the artificial in critter response and reaction to its odor.

Perfuming and tincturing is a science and can be expensive if you dabble in it very much. All batches don't always work out like expected unfortunately.

Had those same experiences with lure making.

I started with mineral oil, but switched to olive oil. After talking with you, and Russ Carman, who sets up next to me at NY, I tried the olive oil and liked it.

Mr. Yes Sir, Thank you for posting the video and I agree, perfumers often have some clever techniques.

However, I have questions about using the process that Mr. Reigler shows when the end product is to be used in or as an animal attractant. My first question would be the addition of "orris root powder" as an emulsifier for removal of the fat contained in the civet paste. I have little doubt that adding the orris root powder could and would perhaps add an undetermined value for an animal attractant product, but the end product / tincture could no longer be considered a TRUE civet tincture. I suspect removing the fat component from the paste material would be beneficial when the desired end product is expected to be clean, have plenty lift of odor and minimal residue when it's to be used for perfume applications but should not be extracted from a tincture that will be strictly used straight or incorporated in formulations of animal attractors.

Using Ethanol straight for a solvent would surely give the end product odor plenty of lift, but due to its volatile evaporative nature I question the overall longevity of the odor in an animal attractant application without due consideration of perhaps adding a stabilizer /binder oil to slow the rate of evaporation and adding some heft if the desired civet odor is to be used as a predominant contributing odor or the dominant odor of the lure formulation.

Please understand that I am by no means criticizing the tincturing method shown in the video but just sharing some observations that trappers might find helpful.

I use a perfume in a lure, I have found that beaver oil sac oil to mix the perfume with the animal parts and seems to "hold" the odors. Iam now substituting a grease instead of the glycol/glycerene to freezeproof and raise the melting point for work in hot/sub zero temps. The grease will not freeze at below 0 and won't melt till well over 100, curious as to how it will change the "odor release"?

First of all orris is the medium he chose. Others could be used including sand as he pointed out. Also the alcohol will evaporate the the civit won't. I've tried oil and civit and I don't consider it a tincture it's more of what I'd call a cut and my experience with it the civit cut in oil didn't hold its odor over time as well as a true tincture. Civit is a fixative unto itself, doesn't need a binder/ stabilizer.
Just my 2 cents.

Yes sir, I don't think he meant sand?:) I believe he meant Sandalwood oil or powder. That is a good material to use to carry the Civet odor characteristics.

Gotcha u. My hearing is too great. U thought he said sand . Figured he used it to thin out the fats so they would dissolve easier.

Just to clarify I never said there was anything wrong with adding orris root. Some old time lure formulations called for "orris root". I just stated that when added to the civet paste the mix could no longer be considered a TRUE civet tincture. Sandlewood powder mixed in like Mr Riegler shows creates a beautiful flowery perfume aroma. And yes I've watched a few perfumers' videos and dabbled a little bit with perfumes. I also mentioned that the fat from the paste was not necessary for a trapper to remove for animal attractor formulation use and why I suspect that perfumers want it removed.

I full well understand that when a solvent like alcohol evaporates that the mother material remains intact with what its blended with and never said a binder or stabilizer was needed! Just stated that perhaps one might consider it to slow down the rate of the evaporation add some weight to the chemical structure so that odor lingers a while longer. And yes I do know that civet has fixative qualities and what a fixative is used for. I put up civet paste by dissolving it in extra virgin olive oil. I don't consider it so much a true tincture but more of suspending the paste / mother material in the oil to expand the quantity some and make it easier to use in my formulations.

Over the years I have learned there are always different ways to do the same thing but in different ways. What works for one may not work for someone else. One guy will swear by a certain ingredient the next guy might swear at it. Its never wrong until it don't work.

Mr Yes sir I appreciate and value your 2 cents and thank you for your input

And I appreciate the more detailed explanation. More chat about different approaches always give everyone more to think about.

Mr Tom, That grease your using .....is it Petro or perhaps something you picked up over in Roswell at the U.F.O. crash sight

I find this method interesting! Using some heat to help the civet paste relax and blend with another material or base. Providing the two materials are compatible.
Because they are both cats? Bobcats/Civets.
I would like to try extending the Civet paste by mixing it into Bobcat glands. Preferably glands with out urine?
Just something I am considering at this time.