Hawks for you adc guys

Don't post here much, but is there some way to deter hawks away to keep them from the chickens or do I just have to fire warning shots at them?

Free range open pasture or smaller barnyard area with fence but no too?

Free range

Without using lethal methods, you will just need to keep buying replacement free range chickens. Raptors do not disperse very far when harassed, and will return as soon as the coast is clear.

Ok is there any way to get a permit to shoot these things?

USFWS would be your only call necessary in your area.

While it may happen out there somewhere I do not believe
permits are ever issued to kill hawks or owls or falcons when
free range poultry are involved.

The one phone call to their office will tell you what legally is allowed and isn't.

I have a couple of neighbors who lose half their flock every year to raptors. They complain but will not do what needs to be done to protect their birds.

Birds can still free range with movable shelter but the fact is, if you let your birds run around unprotected, you will lose some or all.

That is very true. But when people come tour my farm and pay $7 a dozen for eggs and can see chickens running around, they like the idea of that better then being in a moveable enclosure.

I use flagging tape. Run a few rows over their run if is not too large. I see raptors flying over my birds run and have never lost a bird to them.

I can certainly understand that. How many birds are you losing?

Are your birds in a secure coop at night?

Each state is different in what and how they allow the protection of livestock and raising fowl. Sometimes the law is misstated or the person telling you just doesn,t know. They may not be telling you to protect the killers that are hurting your animals.

You might want to review your states laws more closely.

You have the right to protect your animals from raptors here. It also tells how it must be done. You ask most anyone and they will tell you differently.

Hey Kirk,

More curious than anything, are you saying Georgia as a state allows for take of raptors (hawks and owls)? If so is this a deal your federal fish and wildlife service made with your state game and fish?

I'm more than confident folks have and do remove all manner of protected federal birds whether woodpecker or hawk/owl illegally, but curious if somehow GA has some exemption for take that is formally agreed upon.

Not something I need to know, just curious again as I've never heard of something that didn't require some serious background before any removal.

We even have folks here who have nesting hawks in their yard on their property and bombing folks and it is rare any removal is ever allowed and if it is, it is always federal or state avian biologists who come and do the removal.

Best,

Justin

(Ga Code 27-3-62)

Trump has said he is going to protect us. I wonder if that includes everyday poultry farmers?

Hey thanks Kirk,

I pulled that up on a law website, this looks like it refers to trapping, firbearers or pests of a non federally protected type no?

http://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-27-game-and-fish/ga-code-sect-27-3-62.html

Maybe there is another section I'm not seeing?

Thanks for the dialogue.

Justin

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/attachme...0831_091350.png

It states from "any predatory bird or animal". As long as the trap is made of steel.

They are secured at night and it's not uncommon to lose 5 a day. Some times less sometimes more.

OK. We can count out owls then.

Do you find the carcasses or are they gone? If you're finding them, how close to where the chickens roam? How much of the bird is eaten?

They are gone, just a ring of feathers. Most of the time the chickens head into a strip that as buck thorn and stuff in it to hide but once they come out into the grass they get picked off.

Well, we ruled out owls. That leaves hawks. This time of year the broad-winged hawks are gone to S.America. Coopers hawks aren't big enough to carry off a chicken and even red tails, the biggest hawk around, can't take off with a full grown chicken although they can take some very small ones. When hawks kill chickens they'll usually sit right there and feast.

Taking into consideration that a chicken is a very large meal for a hawk, the chances of even a pair averaging 5 chickens a day just doesn't make sense to me.

While you might have hawks around, I would start thinking about four footed varmints being the problem.

Well another aspect to the story is I have a family of bald eagles that live a half mile away that like to come by. I have pretty much taken care of the predators, they come by a few times a year but I pick them off pretty quick

2cylinder, even eagles can't get airborne with anything but the smallest chickens. Watch the video below.

Fortunately, there is no evidence that the depredation is from raptors. Fox, raccoons, coyotes, domestic dogs, etc. are a far more likely cause and that means you can legally deal with the problem.

To see an eagle is common here also. I have a biologist friend that hunts with me every year that told me he has seen as many as 32 eagles near his management area close to Orlando at one time.

Maybe if you could get permitting you might use traps and release the Hawks to the DNR in a transfer cage.

I was told by a farmer last year an eagle was eating out the eyes of calves as they were being born. I don,t know what you could legally do about that.

Hawks are federally protected . Doesn't matter what the state says. It's hard enough for airports to get permits to take lethal action, I doubt you get anywhere over chickens.

Eagles you have to have a permit just to harass.

I'd be very curious to get a state game and fish biologist and a federal game warden in the same room on that GA "any predatory bird or mammal" statement.

I do appreciate Kirk sharing that law statement always interesting to see what is in the books somewhere even though I'd not be the one wanting to try to use
that on any federally protected bird species.

**

There are loopholes for seeing livestock being attacked and lethally removing the predator in the moment even out west with large carnivores, but I'm hard pressed
to believe the feds wouldn't have a fit over someone taking raptors over dead chickens despite it being a real problem for open free range producers.

Interesting discussion though....

What is so important about these darn birds? Why are they protected? I can't think of one good thing a hawk has given me.

Years ago a land owner, I know of, had at least 18 alligators in the large pond he owned by his house. Some were over 10 feet. He asked to get them removed. The state allowed one permit. About a month later one got his dog. He asked for more permits and asked to have them all removed or let him get them removed. The state didn,t want to remove anymore. Shortly thereafter his 2 year old grandson was playing in the back yard. A large gator came out of the water after him. The child was saved by one of the family members in a very close call.

He never asked for another permit, from what I understand. The alligators vanished.

That is what I was told.

Makes you wonder about the ability of a DNR to make the best decision, no matter where they are. Whether they are state or federal.

2cylinder - at one point all manner of birds were down in number through excessive use and "market hunting" and other factors including controlling predators, you name it. Migratory bird treaty act and other conservation tactics were employed along with obviously hunting seasons for waterfowl and upland game birds, etc...

Ultimately putting any species in a "what has it done for me" can skew anyones view positively or negatively. A good example would be when one pasture is filled with sheep and the rancher wants the coyotes dead to protect his lambs, while the neighbor grows alfalfa or other feed and wants the coyotes left alone to eat as many mice and rodents as possible. (not a fake example by the way, in OR it was common for this to be the case when I lived there years ago).

Or the guy who likes to look out and see the deer in his yard while the neighbor wants them dead or gone as they are eating their shrubs and trees and landscaping.

As someone raising chickens you are of the belief the hawks are eating your chickens but following along haven't seen where you've actually affirmed it to even be hawks or raptors taking your chickens. So at the moment you don't have a hawk depredation.

Either way, understanding everyone has their own view is a massive part of life itself right? None of us agree 100% on hardly anything, not wildlife, surely not politics and everything in between, lol!

******

Kirk, Your alligator story illustrates a point that all on here probably know well. Laws are meant to provide a structure to enforce when folks are caught breaking them. Laws to not however find everyone who breaks them and we all know that illegal wildlife take including serious poaching and all the way down to lesser offenses are extremely common and when there are only 1 or 2 "fish cops" per county or less in many states, good luck to them finding people who aren't chronic offenders or folks who post to their FB account while posing next to a dead hawk they just shot!

Plenty of illegal actions happen daily, nature of the beast...

No. What it illustrates is how far removed Government can be from the problem to protect us in many situations.

I do very little trapping now compared to years ago, due to age, health, and other reasons. I do however get many a story from customers from all over the United States. All they do is re-enforce what I have learned in the past.

We have very little actual poaching here compared to the past. Most all of the people I know stay within the law whether they agree with it or not. I quit dove and duck hunting years ago because of all the harassment and fear I could be fined for something I was not aware that would cause me to lose my trapping license. I can,t remember a year that I did not kill a nice buck since I was 15. I did not kill a deer this year.

I hope 2cylinder can resolve his problem whether it is really hawks or not.

Funny comment about managing raptors. Yard full of chickens is a target-rich environment; basically, you're putting out a buffet for them.

---sure hope this guy ain't serious.

Every State has laws regarding lethal take of wildlife, but these laws do not relieve anyone from following the Migrating Bird Treaty permitting requirements.

I know a guy that raises pigeons or at least he tries. He told me he lost over 50 of his birds to hawks. 90% of what he had. That was last fall. I haven,t seen him for a while. He witnessed many kills. Some of the birds he had named. He never mentioned he killed any hawks but did say he would like to. He said he had a friend that had the same problem. They both had pens but still were losing birds. The other guy lost many of his testing his birds. I believe they were racing pigeons.

He did say he may quit raising any poultry or birds, because of the problem being so severe.

I don,t think one can truly understand unless you have experienced the problem or walked in the shoes of the person experiencing the same problem no matter what it is.

Wish I knew how to post a picture. I had a hawk in my pigeon shed this morning. No clue how it got in there.

It was in an area where it wasn't going to get a pigeon. It still screws them up. They didn't hop down and eat this morning. Can't blame them.

Makes me wonder what kind of pen has holes big enough for a hawk to get in without being big enough for a pigeon to get out.

They catch them next to the wire and grab them. They do the same on the fly pens.

Thanks. I guess that could happen.

What kind of hawks?
Some raptors preying on anything farm related can be taken legally by a permitted falconer including G eagles. each state is a bit different.

This works for a while, glitter tape- alot of it

Radio playing loud awful stuff- not country western- the hawks like that.

And scarecrow.

Whoops and best is Livestock guardian dogs

Rikki, all eagles are protected under the Eagle Act and trumps any state laws. All raptors including eagles are protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. Also trumps all state laws. To legally take raptors it takes a state + federal depredation permit. Federal permits to take are not handed out very often and usually not at all to the general public. With eagles you have to have a federal permit just to harass them . By federal law you can not even honk the horn at one to make him fly without the permit.

Well I am a master falconer and you can certainly apply to take eagles under state and federal laws if you apply and the fed and state agree. Having eagle permits if you have gone through the training and apprenticing is long but I have had many friends that have flown and hunted eagles. I prefer accipiters.
I was not suggesting you do this without a permit.
If you are losing stock to eagles, and it is your living you should contact your local fish and game, they would contact a master falconer. If it is red tails, or something else non eagle you might want to check into a permitted falconer. The feds and state might say yes, might say no- does not hurt to ask. All my friends that have flown eagles got them through the aforementioned situation or rehab.

but by far the easiest which i mentioned before is Livestock Guardian dogs. We have a few of those, without which we could not ranch at all.

I have looked into falconry for control at our airport. I seen where master falconers can use eagles but not kill eagles. What kind of bird do you use to hunt eagle?

eagles
Rabbit
mostly

ground dwelling smaller mammals
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For bird abatement it is yet Another Permit

Most use falcons lure trained for that. tho you must use a bird bred in captivity

It is then necessary to have several to use, so one can rests

saker, barbary, peregrine, gyr

need to be at least a general permit holder for that but it may have changed.

I am not talking about using the Eagles to hunt, rather hunting eagles.

the methods used to live capture birds of prey for falconry vary.

I know how to catch the birds to use for hunting. I am not talking about live capturing birds.

"Taken" on a depredation permit means lethal means. That's what I was talking about. Totally different deal.

Ok

'taken' in falconry is live capture.