Wisconsin Bat Removal

I received a phone call today from another operator in the area and he informed me that he has been getting reports that operators in the State are still removing bats. Since this operator isn't on the forums I told him I would let everyone know.

It is against the law in Wisconsin to remove bats from dwellings from June 1st to August 15th. The only exception is if the dwelling is a food service facility or a registered Day Care Center.

Please spread the word if you know of any operators who are unaware of this law.

Thanks

If you need more clarification on this law please contact 608-266-5216.

Sounds like a liability bag of worms.

Nate-

I have a reason for asking this but exactly what State Law, what is the verbage and the penalty to remove bats during this period of time?

Don’t know WI law or if this is still current, interesting reading though.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/erreview/documents/batconservationplan1-10-11b.pdf
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/bats/pdf/environmentalassessment.pdf

Robb I will call Nancy tomorrow and get you that info.

This law was passed in 2011 (I believe) because Wisconsin placed bats on the States Threatened Species List.

The DNR came to the State Association Meeting in 2011 and informed everyone in attendance that this was the new law. I was NOT in attendance but was informed of this law by a board member shortly after that meeting. Since that date I have been in contact with our States "official bat lady" and she has confirmed on multiple conversations that this is the law and the DNR is enforcing it.

I can only speculate that this is probably in direct relation with White Nose Syndrome.

At times you can sex the bats nothing wrong with doing a bachelor group now.

x2

I had a very interesting conversation on the phone with Mike Flick the other day and Mike said after trying to run the law down and the best he could come up with was strong recommendations with no teeth!

I wonder if he is the one the other guy was talking about then? No names were given, just told me "an operator"

I put the call in this morning and she is going to email me the link. So when I get home tonight I will post the link.

I was surprised to learn many game departments and other interested parties believed nwco's were or would prefer "gassing" colonies of bats. The NWCOA rep in attendance did a great job of making those in attendance aware that killing or impacting bat colonies in a negative way is detrimental to our industry and to an operators business.

A "strong recommendations with no teeth" from the DNR or any with oversight can become a law or regulation with lots of teeth if ignored. Best to follow and embrace guidelines if they make sense, best to follow and then meet with officials and explain why a guideline may not work or make sense to get it changed. But just ignoring their guideline or suggestions in the quest to make a buck (we loose bat jobs every year by not being willing to evict bats during blackout period when others will) is a good way to be restricted by laws or regulations that you will not like. And it doesn't take much, one news story that "gets some legs" is all it takes for that knee jerk reaction and then a bill moves through the process and becomes law in record time.

I was practicing the blackouts long before. Nobody wanys a bunch of dead baby bats stinking the house up. I was a little surprised to find that its not a LAW myself, but being meticulous by nature I decided to run it down. Its important to me that recomendations are labled as such, and not mislabled as law. I have seen plenty of game wardens lie to a crowd for what they feel is the greater good, but I dont see it that way.

Here is the link I was given by the DNR:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/erreview/itbats.html

Page 3 talks about removing colonies from homes. It does say it can be done but you will need a permit and must be able to prove it is NOT a maternal colony.

Unless ( Reading section A) the land owner feels that it is a risk to there health, the land owner, rather than the DNR may make the call. Am I reading into this, or is it up to the land owner to pull the trigger any time of year. I am open to any input from anyone who reads it.I am surprised to see it in writing, and thanks Nate for finding it!

Sure seems to read that way

So if the land owner considers it a health risk than
It's ok to do a removal if it's a bachelor colony??

Like you said Mike, it is very "open to interpitation" but personally I am not going near this one. But again I have been told by numerous DNR heads that they are going to enforce this. They also said since they placed bats on the States Threatened Species List those rules apply and those punishments apply. I believe that falls under section 25 of the State Statute, but not 100% on that one.

It is too easy to just wait to after August 15th to remove a colony. If the DNR wants it that way I will play their way.

Last year by the time August 15th came I had bat exclusions scheduled for every day from August 16th to October 31st and I only do the "easy ones"

I actualy like the way the law was written. They require no permit from home owners, and let them make the call when the bats are removed from there home, acoarding to how safe, or unsafe they feel about the situation.
That leaves it up to us to inform them of the situation they have, if there are any reprocussions. ( Dead baby bats stinking the home up within 3 days) In my opinion it is going to let the good guys operate on batchelor colonies, select a safe target date for removal of there own, and not totaly restrict a home owner from maintaining there home in summer time.

Seems like only 4 species of bats have been put on the list (added 6/1/11) There are 8 species of bats found in Wisconsin I believe. So would that legislature not apply to the other species? But I agree that playing by THEIR rules is always the best policy.

Good point Chris, however 99% of the time, the bats in a home are big browns and little browns. Most of the other 6 we never see.

You guys have a good discussion going here, I think the take home message is that they are allowing for bats in dwelling
issues and aren't even trying to take any hard line on stopping it or limiting it. The best result would be more dialogue from
guys in the state like yourselves who are honest and are trying to teach folks about bats and maternity colonies and why it
is important to conserve them.

The discussions I had at the white nose symposium showed me that folks that interacted with me understood what exclusion
was in principle and very much appreciated the idea that professional excluders promote bats and understanding.

In my opinion while not every homeowner is going to be smiling about bats after they've had to pay for exclusion, the vast
majority I've dealt with in my short tenure on the private end do appreciate bats more after we are done and they aren't sharing
their home with them.

I absolutely guarantee more states are looking in this direction due to declines and thus, it behooves anyone doing this type
of work to know or get to know if they don't already the folks who might write up something similar in other states.

Too often as we all know folks get their hackles up expecting the worst from their game and fish agencies and while this
can be correct sometimes, in the case of our industry and the wildlife we work with, we must do our best always to work cooperatively
with these folks.

The other option is duck and cover and we all know how that goes, at least by reaching out or taking the branch when it is offered
we have a chance to build something constructive.

Again, Mike, Nate and others, good discussion and my .02 for what its worth is it seems WI is on the right track with what they've put
together and it does give flexibility that hopefully an operator and homeowner can work within 99% of the time.

Justin

Hello, all... I was at the WDNR legal meetings on this matter in 2011to hear input by all in attendance and took the stand myself to give testimony. There were actually 4 meetings statewide about a week apart. The bottom line is that you can not do bat exclusion during the shutdown period in WI. except in extreme needs cases and then by permit only. The laws do have teeth and have been inforced in a few cases already. WI. has collectively joined forces in a multi state effort to educate violators of the laws and have talked to violators already and now that has gotten them on a watch list. Last year a warden investigated a case in West Salem, WI. when fishermen below a dam called in a complaint during the shut down about injured and dead bats floating down the river from the dam up above. There was a pest control operator there but by the time the warden arrived the bats(evidence) were gone and the pest control guy said he was just hired to remove the guano and had nothing to do with the bats. Last month in Madison ,WI. This same company was reported by a homeowner because they were excluding during the shutdown. The DNR was again contacted and the company was fired. This company is being monitored for their continued illegal activity and F rating by the BBB and many complaints by dis-satisfied customers. Wisconsin will soon do a heavy inforcement and fine those that break the laws and shut down companies that continue to disobey. Reaearch also shows that those that try to sex a colony to determine it as a bachelor colony just so they can do a job, have mis-diagnosed in a majority of cases. The law does not allow exclusion of bachelor colonies anyway but reads that NO exclusions are to be done at that time. Trying to say that a law is open for interpretation just to find a loophole around it is really a desperate attempt to get more work and usually those that do that really don't have any regard for the bats even though they may say that they do. They should first work on having a good reputation and getting good reviews and then the work will come.
Wisconsin laws have been taunted and challenged by those that just can't get enough work because of their reputation and review comments. Legitimate and reputable companies just don't seem to have these problems though and do observe the laws and also have plenty of work.

Thanks for sharing MJB. Thorough post with a lot of aspects covered that shows people are watching what is going on with our industry and what we do for not just larger wildlife but bats as well.

Justin

That's a wonderful post and I hope everyone in Wisconsin reads it. I'll just leave it at that. If I'm correct, Mr. Bakke owns Wisconsin Bat Specialists in Sparta, Wisconsin and has an A+ rating from the BBB. ( Not to be confused with Greg Bakke who owns Wisconsin Bat Specialists of Waterford, Wisconsin ) We also have Wisconsin Bat Specialists of Green Bay and Bat Specialists of Wisconsin in Fond du Lac.

Hey Justin, guess who's over the private topic limit? One more PM and there will be an explosion that will wipe out parts of New Mexico.

Hello Paul, HD, Nate and others that have commented on this forum. I believe that we will all see very soon that only those that operate legally and don't post complaints about the DNR will be the only survivors in this matter. Those that question the laws and try to find ways around them are only hurting themselves. Their posts go viral and then everyone, everywhere gets to see who the whiners are. A legitimate and reputable bat-proofer usually does not have to go more than 50 miles from his home to get all the work they want. Those that have ruined their reputation are always talked about at the State Pest Control meetings and every operator and State Agency already has them flagged on their black list and word about them only spreads and then their referrals go down. They will usually overstate their qualifications and advertise everywhere to get any work they can get from those that will hire them because of not doing their homework.
A potential customer should always check the reputation of the company they are considering to do their work with the BBB, Angie'sList, YP.com, yellowbook.com, etc. to see what others have said about them.

Michael J.Bakke. . www.WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. . (Since 1979)

Paul, open space...,fire away.

The state of Wisconsin sent me a letter around June 18th for bat professionals regarding all the new laws that are in effect regarding bat exclusion. The letter states "Any pest control operator that enters a roost site and physically removes or handles bats of a colon must obtain a T/E (Threatened/Endangered) permit to continue to do their work. If the work conducted by the pest control operator does not involve handling the bats, the operator is not required to have a permit." And according to the state there are more than 300 pest control operators in the state that work with bats. They are also going to be offering a voluntary certification which will involve watching a short video and signing an agreement.

I got the same letter.

Out of curiosity, does the T/E letter reference any other document than the Conservation Plan or is there an updated plan that hasn't been posted yet?

The posted plan has several interesting details in it. First, it only can be applied to cave dwelling bats and is even more specific in naming four species. The plan is only in effect whenever one of those species is present or suspected to be present. So any non-listed bat such as a silver-haired bat, would require a special permit even to remove from a structure unless there is an exception somewhere else.

Second, it does give the right to the landowner (which must be defined elsewhere) to classify their situation as a health risk based on their own belief system which then negates having to follow the conservation plan.

“The landowner, rather than the DNR, is allowed to determine if they believe there is a health risk under this section (Section A). … If an activity qualifies as a health exception, it is exempt from the remaining minimization measures.”

Third, it list specific activities (bat removal, building demolition, tree cutting, bridge projects, miscellaneous building projects to include roofing, painting, siding, etc., and wind energy development) and gives specific guidelines for each of these activities.

This is a good point Eric, that most language when homeowner exemptions exist an operator could "educate" a potential client to how they need to view the problem to turn it into an excludable species any time of year!

This is akin to..... "He was coming right at me, I had to shoot!!"

Most know this already but speaking as an ex govt. guy, no one is going to take on the potential liability or risk or someone not being able to exclude or deal with an issue in a home head on in clear language. They may encourage or push for better use of exclusion during the best times of year to avoid maternity impacts and push for methods of how it can be done, but homeowners will reign supreme as it is not in the state or feds best interest to become legally responsible for cases they don't allow to be excluded that could go sideways.

My disclaimer would be, many if not all homes can do interior seal ups during the maternity season and avoid impacts to bats and buy the necessary time and put homeowners at ease till out of this time. I did 3 interior seal outs in the last week to allow just this type of thing, the folks are happy, they understand what we are allowing time for and have no issue with waiting now.

I believe you will see very state moving toward some formal discussion or rules for bats and activities that impact colonies and roosts as WNS creeps across the country. That and that even in absence of WNS the devastating impacts have taught more people positive things about bats, the public is better educated and understands bats more and that alone is causing more funding, education and direction going toward better conservation measures.

Justin

Hello all,
The T-E permit does not allow you to do the work during the shut down. What it is saying is that during the open period if you are handling or removing bats, you must have this permit. If you are excluding bats or sealing a non colonized or active home and you do not handle them, then you do not need a permit. This interior sealing of a home is a good thing and what all the members of my crews are doing now.
There are over 300 bat proofers in WI. as the figure is around 365 now and growing. Four have 25-35 years experience, about 60 have 15-25 years, 150+ have 10-15 years and the rest have less...Only 2 have an F rating with the BBB so most are respected for doing the right thing.
Two of the big pest control companies are having a training school in WI. and will each be graduating 25-35 new bat proofers twice per year and getting them trucks and certified as so called professionals and Madison, LaCrosse, Point, Marshfield and Rapids are the areas that they plan to be flooding with these guys. Wisconsin already has the most bat-proofers in the midwest in comparison with less than 100 in Iowa and Illinois and people there are on long waiting lists to get their work done, especially in the quad cities area. These guys though are learning the law as part of their training and that is a good thing.

Michael J.Bakke. WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. . (Since 1979)

Hey Justin, what Mr. Bakke posted about the number of bat proofers in our state is very interesting. Is there any reason to believe that we may have more bats in Wisconsin as well?

Paul,

More than?

Ohio, New Mexico?

I'd say the number of operators is more related to unrelated biological aspects.

How's that for clear as mud!



Actually I thought of a good analogy... Hunting and fishing are good examples, lots go out, not all catch their limit or fill their tag.

This 300+ operators doesn't mean here are gobs of bats, just that that many people see the potential revenue stream and are willing to bait their hook or load their gun so to speak.

Better?

Yeah, I get the picture. I never gave bats a second thought until I got involved in this business. Now to find out that we have over 300 of those caped crusaders running around the state is kind of mind blowing.

That might account for a $2000 bat proofing bid on a house that didn't have bats.

MJB, Where did you get the numbers for Illinois? I work about 20 miles south of the quad cities and don't know of any waiting list.

or bids of 500.00 for a 3 story, 8 dormer home that is full of. Bats

Good points, all, and good to see everybody taking the high road on this topic.
Have any of you had to do an ER or carcass removal after somebody did a removal during nursery season? What's that like?

Hello all,
Jim- I PM'ed you with the info for this question. Paul, we see a lot of overpricing here in WI. also and had one operator ask the homeowner to go to a hotel for a week while they did their overpriced work that had a very small problem with bats and only got one inside about every 5 or 6 years. Bud, there are a number of new pest control operators that are trying to break into the business and will bid extremely low just to get any work that they can.
On your Google search bar ---type in bat removal law and read what other states are doing and enforcing. I believe that our laws will follow these patterns and get very strict soon.
At youtube---Type in--- The Peoples Court-Judge Milan flips out, ----This is a case of a young Fla. Atty. tyring to defend a bat proofing operator for his shabby work there.....interesting!

MichaelJ. Bakke
WISCONSIN BAT SPECIALISTS Inc.

MJB, I thank you for taking the time to send me the info. However, I did not get your pm. Thank you for the thought.

Jim, the pm was re-sent....
Just to let all know....the facebook page. 'Bat Specialist of Wisconsin' is not part of my company or anyone associated with me. On that site the pco mentions his exclusion work, location and dates that he IS doing during the blackout. He states on this forum and his website that he doesn't ..... What to believe?

Michael J.Bakke
WISCONSINBATSPECIALISTSINC. (Since 1979)

That could get confusing having a Facebook
Page so close to your name! Is there a actual company
Named Bat specialist of Wisconsin!

Kasey, there is one that I know of. The others are Wisconsin Bat Specialists and they've been around a long time.

Hello Paul and Kasey,
There are 2 companies in WI. One in Green Bay and one in Waterford that are called 'Bat Specialists of Wisconsin' but none with the singular name Bat Specialist of Wisconsin. The pco using that company name uses many aliases and many internet postings to direct anyone interested to just one phone number of his poorly rated company. He is a one man operation that associates himself to other organizations but has little experience and poor ratings everywhere. He is not part of the other two companies as he is also not a part of mine and they too are not happy that he is using that tag line because it makes them look bad.

Michael

Michael

Those are some pretty good yet very generic keywords and not federally trademarked which describe all of you who do bat removal in Wisconsin.

Is that your Trademark registered in Wisconsin ?

There is a big difference in using the Word "Critter Control" in advertising compared to Bat Specialist of Wisconsin because CC protected their name. Just saying!

Trademarks > Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4801:tvp8lz.1.1

Hello Robb,

Bat Specialists of Wisconsin, Green Bay/Ryan and Waterford/Greg have been associated and recognized by those names and their A+ reputations by most of the best Wildlife Organizations, Pest Control Associations, Biologists and Wildlife Specialists thruout the U.S. Their reputations are now being questioned because people (including potential new customers) are asking why an 'F' rated(BBB) company is now associated with them.
The term 'Specialist' is being used loosely and really DOES NOT describe all of those that do bat removal in Wisconsin. You and others would agree that a Specialist would NOT have: 1)An F rating with the BBB and sould be an accredited business with them 2) be rejected by Angies list after a thorough inspection 3) have extremely negative reviews by past customers on every site they are listed on, 4) would know the WDNR laws and dates on bat exclusion seasons and NOT post different/wrong dates online, 5) would not be under investigation for illegal activity in their business or repeatedly contacted by wardens, 6) would not call wardens liars and question the laws openly at forums like this and others online, 6) would not operate under different aliases that still direct a customer to one phone number for the business that is being widely complained about 7) would not post on their personal facebook page stories and dates admitting exclusions done illegally during the shut down period ...etc.
There are hundreds of bat removal companies in WI. and thousands across the U.S. that have way more experience but don't claim to be specialists. I invite you and all to check this one man operation pco out at every site he is listed at, including www.circuitcourts.com and judge for yourself and see how many cities he claims to have offices in. His company and name are mentioned each year at the State pest control meetings by many pco's as the worst and least reputable bat company in WI. because they continuously hear customer complaints.
Robb, many of us know that you are the designer of some of the websites you have him listed on and expected you to come to his defense, but isn't your reputation and the integrity of your sites more important than the pay per clicks money you get for having people look into his business. Hiding behind an alias like other company names is like changing the name of a pedophile priest to another church and changing his name. The person is still the same no matter what they now choose to call themselves.

Mike There is no pay per click money gain here. Google I am not. I am not worried about any reputation on his part affecting me. I think he owns about 5 domains and one hosting account & we taught him how to use them. My point you are talking about less then 1% of the business we do online. If anything my phone will ring more and I thank you. I have a non compete in Wisconsin not to write local advertising [not including other WI company web sites] on any of my domains unless its for his company.

He buys web services from me. We don't write his content anymore. His company actually employs someone we helped train to do his companies advertising. I also taught him. He has done his own web work since 2010 and is very good at being found on the internet in Wisconsin.

If something illegal is happening In Wisconsin why do we read it here on TMAN and not any where else.

I find out about every bad apple out there. I got rid of both of these guys after documentation from NYDEC. We stopped writing their content and dropped both of them once we received verification from NYDEC. We do broad google news alerts and always look for WCO's in the news Good & Bad. As a media company connected to this industry I usually know every time something serious is happening. Most of that comes by grapevine and I know a lot of your competitors in Wisconsin. http://blog.timesunion.com/advocate/same-bat-story-a-disappearing-contractor/3100/

Personally I have more of a problem with your own state bat removal law and not with the operator.
As long as the homeowner can determine if its a health problem therein lies the problem.
I totally agree with Justin laws will follow with more teeth.

Personally I observe the blackout. I don't have any issue with blackout but I live in a state where I can do bat exclusions for eight months (we have temp restrictions in FL) and not do them for four months APR 15-AUG 15. Our law is very clear.

But Wisconsin leaves a door open for the consumer and no laws are broken.

Hello Robb,
My sincere apology for the misunderstanding. The understanding that many of us had(according to what he told his customers) is that you were like an agent and coach for him that was trying to get as much work for him as possible and he pointed some to your sites that he is listed on to make himself look reputable. It is always good to hear both sides, so thank you for the clarification. It is not hard to see why you got rid of him but the training received thru you has spread to and is affecting many of the reputable bat proofers in this state. I do agree that the WDNR needs to clarify their laws better and that another hearing would definately be in order.
Thanks also for the link about the bad bat proofer- it perfectly mirrors what people are saying here about this pco.

Michael J. Bakke
WISCONSIN BAT SPECIALISTS INC. www.WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. . (since 1979)

On the top of the board there is a rule that says
No flaming! This is a board where we come
To learn and share ideas with each other
not bash other companies that are our competition!
Just focus on being the best you can for
Your company and be happy!

Kasey, Give me a call tomorrow. Have a bat job up in Kelly Lake for you..... You know how i hate to leave the GB area lol

Sounds good troy thanks!

Would anyone like some work in the La Crosse, Sparta, Or Tomah area? I am getting a little swamped. Sure are allot of houses full of bats there though!

I only look out for the small time operators though. NOBODY WHO SUBS OUT WORK!!! Those guys are arm chair operators, and have tons of customers madder than a nest of hornets, but when they complain to him, he directs them to call the guy who SIGNED THE RECIPT. Not his fault right? Anyone want to weigh in on this?

The contract should be with the fellow who subs the work to the worker bees.

You would think so wouldn't ya? I am hoping I can get a few more guys and gals to weigh in on this.

I have been doing a lot of research trying to find laws on different aspects of ADC. My brother and I are looking to start an ADC business very soon.

Is there anything that specifically says the laws on removing/killing bats?

On here I am reading that we cannot kill bats and cannot remove them from june till august but I found different on the WI DNR website
Top of page three
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/documents/nuswlguide.pdf

Probably not the right research if you have to put kill bats into a sentence . Sorry! we don't kill bats. Now tap your toes together three times and say we don't kill bats, we don't kill bats we don't kill bats.

Now if you have any doubts about the law just remember we don't kill bats !!

There is quite a difference between fur trapping and bat removal.

Ok, I understand about not killing bats, I dont see a reason too. The reason for my post was to find an official WI Law regarding it. Like I said before my research brought me to a PDF from the WI DNR website that says different than this thread and I am trying to find the correct info.

And what was your comment about fur trapping supposed to point toward since I asked about bat removal not trapping fur? obviously I am in the ADC forum, I am not asking about trapping rats or beaver.

No offense intended. If you read the content in this entire thread you will find the law is open to interpretation " NO TEETH " when it comes to maternity bat colony handling.

Actually it was your question mentioning killing bats and reading the success of your second year in trapping 2012-2013 that put me in that direction. I was kind of wondering what your goals and catches were gonna be for bats is all. lol


"2nd year trapping:2012-2013
Goals/catches

Wolf-1/0
Mink-10/2
Muskrat-1/33
Coyote-20/0
Beaver-20/7
Red Fox-10/0
Gray Fox-5/0
Raccoon-50/9
Weasel-15/6
Otter-1/1

If you are interested in bat removal techniques my podcasts are FREE and you are welcome to PM me if you have questions. The first one back in 2008 we did series of bat podcasts 101,102,103,104 that may help you. http://batremovalpro.com/the-bat-removal-professionals-of-us-canada/podcasts/

I didnt know my sig line could be so confusing LOL. That is from my last season of fur trapping, Yes I am a fur trapper that is looking at getting into ADC work. I am interested in learning different removal techniques for bats as I am sure we will be getting calls for them, I will check out your podcasts, thanks for the info. If I do have any question I will contact you. I appreciate the help.

Shrek - There are lots of guys here in Wisconsin that may try to mislead you into believing that it is totally shut down until AUG 15. Dont believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see. The kind of junk people try to pull on each other in this industry, you would swear we are fur trapping in the 70s. Then was dog eat dog,and now its like that here. Get to know someone real well before you trust them. As for DNR law, call the office in Madison and ask them.

Mike I have to disagree with you on that one.

I think the operators in Wisconsin are great how we are willing to share not only techniques and experiences but also jobs and referrals with each other.

I spend more time on the phone or meeting up and talking with other operators in my service area than I do most of my friends or family.

I also enjoy the calls and PM's I get from operators in other States who have questions or need some advice.

I don't think this Industry is anything like the old days of fur trapping. If nobody wanted to share this forum wouldn't be here.

But I do agree with you 100% about finding someone you can trust for advice.

Its what I ment to say, as far as networking( Great people out there) But as far as legal advice, take it with a grain of salt. There are very few people on the planet who I dont cross check when laws are an issue.Sorta like whats his name and the whole "cant do bats at all during the maternal period" Does he realy believe that? Or is he trying to keep the competition off balance? I have a hard time accepting that he wouldn't know the letter of the law, since he was supposed to be so involved in the writing of it. And then try to come here to say we read it wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even own a bat trap,because using exclusion devices is easier.Not because I care about a bat living or dying. I protect my own species first. Sealing up from the inside of the home is just something to put off a customer till later.(That's not effective, or what I call customer service)

In the past week I have received lots of phone calls and PM's about this discussion by many that have been following it. We really do have a great group of operators in The Midwest that have shared methods and ideas with others that they can trust. It's like a brotherhood where most get along well and even give work to others that is outside of their area or if they are just too busy.Most have asked though, where is it that anyone ever stated that we 'can't do bats at all during the maternal period'. They just can't find it but do see an open discussion by the majority agreeing to obey what the WDNR has decided on. Nate made an interesting and accurate point in his posting on 6/15 that we will need a permit to remove bats during this time, and that is true, and in his post 6/16 he mentioned enforcement which is also true. In another 6/16 post it was stated that no permit is needed . The explaination is found under the 'Broad Incidental Take Permit laws' where the homeowner will apply for authorization, be reviewed and then possibly issued the permit.
(s. 29.604, Wis) The enforcement that some in this thread mentioned was most likely against those that did exclusions without having the homeowner apply for the permit.(Incidental Take Permit)..
Bat Conservation International, The National Wildlife Federation, Bat Conservation of Wisconsin and most conservation groups around the world recommend sealing up the inside of a home as being the 'most effective way' to keep bats from coming inside during this critical time. Thousands of satisfied customers also state that internal sealing of their home gave them peace of mind and took care of an ongoing problem till the exclusion could be done.
The WDNR has an online chat expert to answer any unclarified questions you may have about what you are told you can or cannot do. dnr.wi.gov/chat/expert.html It is available every other Wednesday.

Michael J Bakke
WISCONSINBATSPECIALISTSINC.com. (since 1979)

The permit isn't one which needs approval or which can be denied, It is for the home owner to fill out within 5 days AFTER the fact. If you don't know what you are talking about, just call them and have the enforcers of the rule read it to you. This is a brand new form, about a month old.

Hello Mike,
I am holding it in my hand now and it is dated June 2012---That's more than a month old when the math is done right. I not only call them, (Paul, Heather, Jennifer, and Melissa) but have them on speed dial and meet with them ocasionally thruout the year. There are still customers out there that are waiting to have their work done that have not applied for the permit and you should know that because of a job you were fired from on Monroe st. in Madison for doing exclusions during the shut down without the permit. You seem to be challenging the law, the permit and those that enforce it with almost every 'Flaming' post you make. Now you at least admit that there are enforcers of it. The form may have been updated a month ago but the principal is the same as when it was written and compares to those written by some of my colleague's across the U.S.

Michael J. Bakke. . www.WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. . (since 1979)

Actually Michael, I'm shooting video at that exact location next week, I'll be posting it on YOUTUBE and I'll drop the link here for sure! Funny how Karma works isn't it? And I've still got that crazy letter you sent me last year too. You remember, the one where you think the DNR tapped my phone, and have a tracking device on my truck? You are a real HOOT!
If you worked as hard getting work for your crew as you do trying to trash talk others, and feed misinformation to people, they wouldn't have anything to worry about. Customers aren't as dumb as you think they are. As soon as you start trash talking the competition, they smell a BULL SNORT. After all the times you called the DNR on me, don't you think I would have been busted? Every time you do it though, I make a new friend! Most of my competition are my friends, I would do anything for them. But here we are, me and you, on this stupid forum, trying to show everyone who the wise guy is. Ive got bats to kick out of houses in La Crosse tomorrow. Im going to bed.

Mike---flaming, flaming, flaming. Actually, this will be my last post on this site because it actually allows so much flaming. You and I both know that you will NOT be at that exact site to do any video because another company signed a contract with the homeowner for about $600/700 and not the $2,000 you charged them and they didn't use scare tactics with the customer. You probably will shoot some video somewhere and post it to try to make people believe you just like you have always done with everything you post, but it won't be at that house. The letter I sent you last year was to remind you of what could be done by law enforcement people if you continue doing what you are and in the unethical way you are doing it. You may think I called the WDNR on you but I haven't and was only alerted to 2 instances days after the fact by two other pco's and just a few of the many that are trash talking you. All those many other times you claim that you have been turned in to them or the police, I am not aware of but it is apparent that there are plenty of people out there that have a problem with you and the way you operate. Almost every site you are listed on has a very negative complaint about you by 1 or more customers plus you have an F rating with the BBB and Angies list won't even consider your application. I was just PM'd this morning by one of those that you think is your friend to look at your profile on ( mugshots.com) and I might look at
that another time. I do invite everyone that has been following this thread to check out both of our companies, both of
our reputations, and all of our customer comments on every site we are listed on and then they can make their own
decision.

Michael. J. Bakke. www.WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. (since 1979)
decisions.

Come on now guys...ya'll can do better.

Dave, I can understand that this stuff must drive the rest of you crazy but as a Wisconsin operator I find this whole bat thing interesting and also informative. I tend to always think that I know everything but every once in a while I need to just shut-up and listen. ( Or read, as the case may be )

Not to start a wirlwind but with all the posts I have been reading I have a question...........

Hey MJB, with all your great advertizing I looked at your website and I am wondering why you have a logo at the bottom of your homepage for the Sierra club?

Why do you promote anti trapping organizations?

http://www.trapperpredatorcaller.com/article-index/sierra-club-considering-anti-trapping-policy
http://www.ussportsmen.org/antis/sierra-club-sets-anti-trapping-policy-2/

MJB I can back up everything Mr Flick has said on a number of homes. BTW it is possible to buy an A grade from the BBB with enough $$ . I give the BBB the same amount of credibility that I give our commander in chief.

The BBB has lost its clout and so called lofty position as far as I am concerned many years ago. It carries no weight for any reason in my professional experience and opinion. They insist on calling us on a regular basis in an attempt to sell us their program. Some folks just wont take no for an answer.

Like with many business's the more you pay the more favorable your standing can be.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/business-bureau-best-ratings-money-buy/story?id=12123843

MJB how does it feel to be rated right along with Terrorists !!!

I would have to strongly disagree on Terror Group ratings. There is nothing scarier than a terror group that gets a D or F rating from the BBB. They can't pick the right targets, their bombs go off prematurely, they get on the wrong aircraft, their guns are hanging out all over, they're just a sloppy looking bunch of would-be assassins. Are these the type of people you want to have operating in your neighborhood?

Paul, I would have to agree afterall Hamas is one of the oldest in the biz and have tackled some of the larger and well known projects in that industry. I would expect them to have a good BBB rating.

An interesting twist to this thread .

LACROSSE WI

A La Crosse business man confessed to police he stole a rare mandolin appraised at $225,000 from an elderly blind woman.

Michael Bakke, 62, turned himself in Monday and was arrested for felony theft. La Crosse police say the value of the property makes the theft charge a felony.

The woman hired Bakke to remove a bat from her home in early June, according to a La Crosse police report. Bakke is the owner of Wisconsin Bat Specialists.

http://www.news8000.com/news/la-crosse-b...7l/-/index.html

LOL WOW

He stole it, to sell at auction, to "help" her - [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot]!!!!

I wonder if his. A+ rating with the bbb will
Help him now lol! What a joke

My question to Mr. Bakke would be why? At 62 years of age you should have no reason to steal anything. I'm starting to think about leaving some of stuff that I acquired over the years at customers houses. Just this week I left a ladder, a mirror, a flashlight, and a cage hook at different customer's houses. Unfortunately they made me come back and get them.

Don't drop the soap Mike. LOL!

Mike you might want to consider the name of that facebook page after all !! With a first name like Mike they might think you are out on bond doing bat work and not Michael Bakke !!

Last year I jumped in the truck and backed down the customers driveway only to see my ladder still up on the house. Felt like a complete idiot pulling back up to get it. But I can say that is the ONLY time I have left anything.

My guys have left drills, inspection cameras, catch poles, cat grabbers, shovels, and countless other tools at customers houses. I usually find out because the customer will call, but on a few occasions I had to go on a hunt looking for items because they have no clue where they left them.

Just another reason I am so happy to be back by myself.

Yea Nate, nobody will treat your equipment as well as you do. On occasion I will forget something like a flashlight or a pair of gloves, but ive been pretty good about it the last few years. Dont be in such a hurry, take that second walk around the house.
Robb: I started that page because of the wierd stuff he was doing. Like sending me letters saying there was a tracking device on my truck, and calling the DNR on me over and over again with false claims. Karma really can come back to bite you if you ask it to I think.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52712344/ns/lo...e/#.Uhlr0tIm2So

The text is no longer there but you know its bad when your making NBC LOL

No more than I said it.... I left my foam gun at one customers house, and a ladder at the next. In my own defense, I was trying to get on with my half a day off......

I left my hat once customer mailed it to me with the final check.

this has to be the best post in the history of this site... some dude claims Flick is a crook, all the while he lifted over $200,000 in goods from some little old blind lady!

you cant possibly think or make this crap up!

Actually he stole a rare mandolin appraised at $225,000

I agree, I love the fact that he was on here talking
Big about himself and putting down other
Operators and then he ends up with felony
Theft charges! And I bet he still has that so called
A+ buisiness rating even though he stole the mandolin
While at a bat job! Wow

Yeppers A+ on BBB

BBB ACCREDITED BUSINESS SINCE 10/5/2012 .
http://www.bbb.org/wisconsin/business-re...rta-wi-44005991

Angies List now asks for the owner to claim their profile. Looks like he lost his rating there.
http://www.angieslist.com/companylist/us...ews-6341439.htm

Karma comes after everyone eventually. That's how it works. Sooner or later the universe will serve you the revenge that you deserve.



The good news is he at least has a better rating then Hamas !!

MJB proved for all of us again exactly how worthless a BBB rating really is !!