#4 Newhouse Square Pan over round

Here are a couple pictures of two Newhouse #4 Square pans over round that were at Sidney, probably one of the toughest Newhouse's to find, the one on the top is a fake and the one on the bottom is an original. Take a close look at the lettering on the fake and you will see how some of the letters start to over lap and others run off at a slight angle and also the No. 4 is smaller than the original and the rivets in the pan of the fake are domed and stick up higher than the original. More pictures to follow.

Thanks for posting

The pans were both the same size, but the fake was made out of metal about 2-2 1/2 times thicker than the original, the metal was even thicker than spring stock. The picture on the top is the original, the one on the bottom shows the original in the back ground and the fake in the front with the pan tilted at an angle to show the thickness of the square pan and also the rivets, the top picture of the original also shows the rivets and you can see how little they stick up above the pan.

Thanks for posting! Amazing that someone takes that much time and effort to make a fake. I know it is about the money but just makes you sick thinking that things like that are floating around.

The #4 square pan is a rare trap for sure. A guy from Missouri has one and it has the same trapper marks on the pan......

......Make my day Trapper48 and post all the Sydney pics you can.....Dale

Dale, you don't miss anything do you buddy. The Fake #4 Square over round I was told came from Vance, so that should tell you who made it. There was also a #3 & #4 Fake clutch trap and a fake #4 & 1/2 wolf trap wrench, and from what I was told, all came from the above mentioned. Sad when the greed sets in and people try to deceive others for profit. Buyer beware.

Why was a square put over round in the first place?

The round pan underneath will have the arched United States Property on it. When OC lost the Govt contract to Gibbs, the Govt stamping had to be covered. Looks like it would have been easier and cheaper to just change pans rather than covering it.

Wish I could have made the Sidney show. I've accumulated a few fakes and that #4 square pan would fit right in my "fake" collection.
Now if I can just find that guy that posted a pic of a #0 diamond......

diamond is mine not for sale

Only problem with fakes,repos,replicas is that they may have been made up just for ones own collection and later get passed as real.You guys should write up an article for traps magazine on these square pans over round,education in our hobby means alot.imo

I like the fake one better. How much is it?

So, here lies the problem, with comments like this, you are creating the FAKE market and giving unscrupulous people [insert whatever or whoever's name you want] the market to create their crap to purposely deceive, only to make money for their own personal greed, they don't care about the history of the trap or to keep the collecting field pure, but again, they only care about themselves and with comment's like your's, your fueling their greedy fire for more crap to be created.

Well said Kevin !!!!

Your one sick individual Crazy Eddy

I'm one sick individual? For voicing my opinion?

Excellent post Kevin and 100% correct. I would assume that Ottertrap was referring to previous post, not yours. Guess if he wants to buy if for the $3500 it sold for at Sidney before the guy found out it was a fake, and gave it back to the seller, he can get it, and pay an exorbitant price for a 25 cent novelty item, and that is being extremely generous in even using a 25 cent valuation on it.

Interesting takes on such a few words. I read that as someone with a sense of humor.

I know there are fakes and cobbled stuff and I've paid some for my education. Just hard to believe a collector would spend that kind of cash on that #4 without a little homework.

Great post Kevin,I am sure with this post on the fake 4 square pan you have helped and educated a lot of people on what to look for in the future. I wish we could put an end to the few greedy money hungry people that are ruining the enjoyment of trap collecting. But as in collecting of most things these fake,repo's, seem to show up. I would like to see more posts here, other sites and a spot in the North American Trap Collectors newsletter just on identifying fakes when they are found. This at least would help out the new collectors from getting burned and driving them from quiting trap collecting.Maybe even letting known names of person or persons making them when proved. Nothing worse than saving your hard earned money to buy a rare trap and later find out it is a fake. Thanks to you again Kevin and Bruce for all the help showing this FAKE.Can you post pictures of the fake clutch traps also if you can.

Here is another #4 square pan that was bought by an unsuspecting collector several years ago. If you look at the pan on this fake and the one above, you can see that they were made by the same person.

Here is a fake Wolf trap wrench, bought from the same seller as the #4 square pan above.

Here's something I should have walked away from.

And I bet I'm not the only one to get stung with one of these...

Dale, The important question is where did you get they? It would be nice to know who is making these fakes.

What do you guys think about this one? Looks really nice, but after reading the posts I wonder. NOt trying to get anyone in trouble, just trying to learn. Thanks...

The pan on that #3 Star is very clean, almost too clean, but I have not seen any flaw in the pan or stamping itself. The jaws how ever, are not right. The jaws are cast and they should be flat steel jaws. That does not make it a fake but it is not correct.

What is the thickness of the pan.

No idea on thickness. Wansn't able to measure it.

I think that the 4 prong drags have been made by several people,I know of one in Ny who had a few made up, not sure how many.

TALK ABOUT FAKES I KNOW A GUY IN MO. WITH FAKES

Willis Rice of Vermont probably made more replica traps than anyone,I think he passed away in 1970's His traps are collectible now I have heard of some bringing $ 250. I have 3 of his traps, he patented one in 1931.He made them with no electric in his shop.Ron Frodelius had dozens of them at one time ,he has sold most in last few years.Ron was a friend of Willis.He(Ron) had him make traps on a monthly basis.Ron was amazed at he different types of traps that he made up, many one of a kind.One could write a book on Willis Rice Traps,( And one should be written), commonly known as" Rice Traps"Most are unmarked, many are black in color.Not sure if painted or dyed ? As with any Hobby you have to educate yourself on Replica or Fakes ,Copies, Alot have gotten burned by these, there not going away,sometimes they are so well made that it is hard to tell them apart.Take a pic send to a well known collector for advice, before buying.Happy Collecting

Im sick? Willis Rice's traps are collectable now.

next ALL them fake signs and TAGS will be collectable

They are at least researched and documented and proven to be authentic, which is more than you can say for the FAKE first model 5 and 6 Newhouse that were made up out of Newhouse springs and blacksmith made jaws, pan and base and then the guy from TEXAS had the nads to call them 1st Model 5 and 6 Newhouse, or the book of Alfred Williams that he supposedly bought the rights to and then wrote a few pages of ramblings that didn't have a thing to do with trap collecting and took Alfred's name off the book and had his own name put on the book and claimed he wrote the book, all were done to make a buck, not to mention the recent pages he had printed up that did nothing but slander other known collectors and then he harassed and bullied other collectors into buying his so called BOOK.
So!! How much research did he do on his fake 5 and 6 Newhouse and also the Abbey and McLeod that he put together out of a trap he bought from another collector, took the jaws out of and put on a Abbey and McLeod base he had laying around and sold it as an original, again another example of a trap being made up just to make a buck. How many other Newhouse traps did he put together just to scam some trap collector out of their hard earned money?

The tags and signs[stencils] ARE original and collectable, that's more than he can say about that plagiarized book with his name on it, at least he made the one with Alfred's name on it worth more, because it's not filled with VESTed dribble.

NOT A FAN OF VESTed. BUT I DO HAVE 9 original newhouse S TAGS for sale make offer
sorry i sold all of my signs.

Yup. Nothing like being called at home and pestered to buy a book, almost to the point of begging. Anything worth reading shouldn't have to be peddled like a 5 year old's story book.

i do live in tx. for 18 years.