Under Ice Baited Muskrat Sets

I've been watching all the YouTube videos on muskrat trapping and had a question in regards to under ice baited sets.

I've noticed when there is snow covering the ice, there are no bubbles to see under the ice. So a couple of baited sets with carrot are made through the ice a few feet from the hut. So for talking purposes lets suppose the water is 3-4 ft. deep. We're using a 110 conibears on a stake, baited with a piece of carrot.

The question then, is the trap placed high on the stake putting it closer to the ice or lower on the stake placing it closer to the bottom? Where do the rats normally swim under the ice, just below the ice or closer to the bottom?

Thanks for the clarification.

If the water is 3 to 4 feet deep I put 2 baited 110s on the stake. One near the bottom and one near the top.

I would set just a few inches below the ice. The deeper you go your bait becomes less visible.

3-4 inches under the ice.

For me setting baited BG's within 4-5' of winter house have proven to be the least produce location and if I catch any it is mid to lower depths(or as Beav points out depth of visibility. I believe this is because M'rats traveling in/out of house thru deeper entrances(shooting out to avoid predator ambush fast till away from house, or returning probably with food already from garage trip. With ice ending the surface patrolling of house perimeter checking for needed repairs of making use of close house feeding beds. I have much higher catch rate away from houses in most. best in path between houses(this does not include smaller feed huts or pop-ups). Close to them is good setting. M'rat housing behavior can be very different from water body to water body in my area.

Drakej, you say that your catches occur at med to lower depths. Yet you mention Beav's thought on just below the ice giving the best visibility. Then can i assume you'd support whole heartedly what was mentioned by "The hammer" as the preferred method of setting?

You also mentioned that you do not feel a trap set within 4-5 ft. of the house is a productive set. Rather you like to set in a path between houses. I guess I'd have to ask how close the second house has to be in order for there to be some correlation between the two? I kind of looked as a house being a separate entity in itself. With that said I'm sure each house might have its own feed bed, but with snow covered ice, aren't these feed beds hard to find and set?

Now all the video's I've been watching show catches close to the house rather than farther away. Trapper J's videos are some that come to mind.

It's my assumption that rats bubble breath as they come and go from the hut out to feed under the ice. So It stands to reason they would be just under the ice.
Now when there Isn't any ice I believe the rats spend more time on the surface then they do In the deeper depths. Unless of coarse they are diving down to get something to eat.

Beav, are you saying then that a rat would take advantage of any trapped bubbles of air just below the ice? I can understand that train of thought. Especially if the water level receded and formed an air gap between the new water level and the bottom of the ice.

But so far what I understand from you experienced folks is that a baited set should be made just below the ice 4-5 inches which also brings in the visibility factor. The question for me that still remains is how far from the hut should the set be made?


Now my thinking, and I may be wrong, is that for safety reasons the entrance on the hut may be deep. Now when a rat with lungs full of air exits the hut, the air in its lungs acts like a balloon cause it to rise. It would make sense then that a rat would travel just below the ice and I'd think it probably would bump and slide along the bottom of the ice. Wouldn't you think that if a rat wanted to dive down, either to get food off the bottom or to enter a deep hut entrance that it would take more effort to do so than to just gliding along just below the ice? So it would seem easier for a rat to travel 50 yds. just below the ice than traveling 50 yds. along the bottom requiring more effort to stay deeply submerged.

In watching the videos and seeing how close the successful sets are to the hut, I'd have to assume the rate of ascent would be pretty steep for a rat just exiting the hut.

IMO 5-10 feet out in front of the hut in clear water area

When the rat leaves the hut after freeze up It's out looking for food. That food for the most part Is some type of root stock and It's at the bottom. So I believe the rat swims along under the ice until It gets to that food soure then dives to the bottom to get It. So I would set somewhat between the hut and that food source and stay up under the ice.
I have used grapefruit rinds and orange peels with some success.It's about eye appeal when your setting under water.

I have actually spent some hours watching rats come and go from their family hoses thru crystal clear ice and never seen one swim around the house just under the surface(within a few feet) not saying it never happens just that traps set there for me have proven far too unproductive to make. So I do not see the need to set one hi and low trap(but give it a try and see YOUR results). Only place I set baited BG near bottom is areas where rats are digging into the bottom for roots(most often found by plant remains just below ice. Feed beds are out of the game once ice forms(my point is that what keeps them close to house in open water and a prime set. Again this does not include "feeder" huts or pop-ups which I do set close(most have entrances that are not that deep and you are in their zone. More than a few ices of snow on the ice really reduces my catch I'm sure because of low visibility), clearly some away can increase penetration(I use lime foam pool float for bait as it is hi vis and doesn't discolor or freeze like carrot forgot in the truck). Lime green #1 choice, white second, orang third). I have tested all three together on stakes under ice and if any is gone it's LG. I have bubble trails go from one side of pond to the other all the time 1/4 mile +.

I now take a day or two(depending on now much I plan to trap) and if/when we get clear walkable ice(never go deep than your waist and know your pond bottoms) and just mark dens with fiberglass stakes and bubble trails with plastic marker flags. It often takes a couple of days fro trails to become well defined. Really active dens, runs often remain ice free and are easily found. Length of time with visible ice is not a given here. If marked, trapping can be done until ice gets too thick or snow covered(also overnight in MN some years, other two to three weeks).

Like bass ringed soft body lures mrats pelts bleed air as they travel under the ice and build up to breathable bubbles until frozen into deepening ice. Hence the more they travel the same shortest path the more reserve they build up. This is very easy to observe as mrats swims around the pond just under the that magnetic bee game- busy, busy bee. The habit of swimming near the bottom is a protection from aerial predators and most done near dens so predators can't easily ambush shallow den entrances. Travel up current in moving water can be easier near bottom and whatever is the driving force behind bottom edges. Once ice forms this habits changes to as you surmised easier travel just below ice, access to reserve air and higher visibility. Colonies I have set on the bottom in a couple feet thru vegetation need to be suspended to just below ice to remain productive(culverts seem to be an exception to this IME).

The test of any of this is for you to try it and see your results(all trapping can be different , different places. I'm still trying to quantify if setting my baited BG's(single spring 6x6's) jaws vertical or jaws horizontal would make a difference in my 15% sprung but empty traps. Which I would have to weight against my most convenient stake system for them.

I set my single spring 160s with the trigger on the bottom and have started to put the trigger in the tighter slot. I use orange duct tape instead of bait. I have tried, green, pink and orange and the orange seems to work the best for me. I have not ever trapped into the later winter like March however.

Bryce