Pipe Dream Set freeze proofing

I've experimented with using Mark's set with a little different twist. I trap almost exclusively in big woods mostly logging roads . I did some testing using my deep freeze before I started using it with success.
I found that foam shelf lining will not absorb water. When I put it in water it felt wet but remained pliable even after hours in the deep freeze. Anywhere the trap touches dirt there is a layer of foam. Using Mark's technique of digging the bed so only the levers touch the dirt I found I can lay the free jaw on dirt with the foam liner. I tested both the foam shelf liner and black screen as the actual pan cover and find I prefer the foam shelf liner. Grass, hay, etc. just doesn't look natural on the forest floor so I use a very thin layer of leaves. (beech are the thinnest leaves in the woods) . I then spray the whole set soaking wet to make the leaves lay flat and look natural. Left the whole thing in the deep freeze for 24 hours so that every thing was frozen solid. I rested the handle of a 3 lb. hammer and the trap snapped perfectly.

These are pictures from the original testing with a container of dirt and using the freeze.




This is the set trap in the freezer.

wow!

I’m curious to see if you get any pullouts. Looks like you put the foam on top of the jaws and the foam will be between the jaws and the animals foot. I would try the foam inside the jaws, or just barely tucked under the jaws to prevent debris in the trap jaws. Just my 2 cents.
Looks like the trap fired flawlessly though. Way to think outside the box.

Pretty cool!

Test that theory. If the cover extends only about 1/4" over the jaws and there is weight on the pan the jaws should clear the cover when the trap fires.

That might be true, but it looks like there’s an awful lot of pan cover in those jaws. I run MB550s and KOs. Both have a low pan so screen under the jaws is no problem. I’d rather be safe than sorry.
Looks like there’s about 1-2” sticking out of that left jaw.

I made up 2 more this afternoon with smaller screens as suggested . Both black aluminum screen and foam shelf liner. Set them up in dirt and and a layer of leaves on the screens and put them in the freezer. I'll snap them off in the morning. My freezer runs at zero degrees. When it's that cold at night around here there will always be snow on the ground that will act as an insulator. What I am trying to deal with right now is rain-freeze-thaw-rain freeze... it's been that way almost constantly this year.

I would suggest cutting the cover back slightly at the jaw hinges.

Will do that.

I can't quite tell from the picture but is the dirt under the trap wet as well? That would be the true test. Have wet dirt under trap and then place foam down, next trap on top of foam, and finally top off with foam or screen and wet leaves. Then put in the freezer. This may be what you have done but I cant tell from picture.

This looks like something I need to try!

Thanks for all the opinions... And THANK YOU Archeryguy!!

If it’s a Pipe Dream Set then there’s no dirt touching under the set other than under the levers. I dig my holes about 4-6” deep under the bottom of the trap. About the only dirt touching is the outside of the jaws. I guess the screen could freeze to the pan, but that would only be a good thing...one huge stepping point.

The dirt was very wet as I had bought it in from outside where everything is saturated from constant rain. Normally only the levers would touch but with the foam, I was able to let the loose jaw touch. The foam under both the levers and the loose jaw protected the steel from freezing into the dirt.

It worked flawlessly. The dirt was frozen as hard as a rock. It took slightly over 3 lbs. to fire the trap. Even though the dirt was wet and I also sprayed it down with water, the foam prevented the trap from freezing to the wet dirt. Going to set a line tomorrow. Weather is expected to be wet with rain and snow all week and nights below freezing.

If you look at the pattern on the outside of the loose jaw that was made by the foam it shows how well the steel seperated from the foam.

So have you made any "control" sets to see if the trap will even freeze to the soil without the liner? Just to make sure it's not a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I am impressed by your effort and interested in your experiment.

Is there enough space that you expect the trap will get a bite on the paw and hold? The Zagman cautions about the taco effect.

Do you by chance have a leg / paw to use? Or 3-4 volunteer fingers?

Good luck with your traps set in the real life mud. Please keep us informed. Lots of pictures please.

Hern - those camo pan covers are fancy! How did they work? Are you going into production? If you make them snug to the inside of an mb550, I’ll buy some to try.

[quote=Willy Firewood]Been - those camo pan covers are fancy! How did they work? Are you going into production? If you make them snug to the inside of an mb550, I’ll buy some to try. [/quote

They are pretty easy to make, Willy. You can even hot glue them together if you prefer instead of stapling them. Just go get a roll of steel screen from Lowe’s and cut it to fit your traps. The easiest way to cut it if ur doing a bunch is with an old style guillotine paper cutter. Cut it into 6” long rolls while still rolled up and then just cut to size as you unroll it or cut into 6” squares so you can trim to fit. Pretty easy to set the trap and turn it upside down and trace inside the jaws like Hern did for a paper pattern.

The Right(loose jaw) looks fine, but the left jaw I would be worried about,as the steel screen is between the jaw & pipe in picture, or if set on your line, it would be between jaw & the animals foot. You need to cut the wire screen or liner to fit inside the jaws, NOT over the jaws.

Like someone else said, if your making Marks Pipe Dream set the correct way, there is NO DIRT touching the trap except the leavers & outside edge of jaws.

The left jaw wasn’t touching dirt. I’ll take your suggestion and cut the screen down so it fits inside the jaw. The aluminum screen is pretty flexible, that’s why I let it sit on the jaws.

With the low pan on those 550s, I tuck the corners of my screen under the jaws then there’s no worries.

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting ideas. I hate to be real dumb but I will go ahead. When you talk about spraying down the leaves to get them wet, are you spraying with water or some liquid anti freeze like propylene glycol etc.?
Thanks again
Mac

With creek water so the leaves look natural and lay flat.

Thank you, makes perfect sense. Very good idea. I have used leaves but have run the through a sifter but a wet down pattern looks a whole lot more natural.
Thanks again for the great ideas.
Mac

Dfabs - thanks for the tips. Those deluxe pan covers are slick. Add the leaves and grass ahead of time and deal them out when setting traps. Somehow add a feature on the premium luxury model - an opossum guard.

I think they call that the ole rock under the pan. Of course, it keeps everything else out too.

Experimenting with methods to keep traps from freezing is never a bad idea. If you've read my stuff, you know I've been bedding my traps this way for a LONG time, even before the Pipe was added to the program. T-Bones, grass tufts/post sets, Grab and Die Stakes, etc.

With the dirt ONLY being pushed against the sides of the jaws and NOT on top, and NO dirt on levers, I think for a WHOLESALE approach/100's/1000's of sets, this would be cumbersome to add to the mix FOR ME. Dry grass and salted walls/tops of hammered dirt and then salted grass covering keeps me going decent enough to stick with that program, again, for ME.

I'd never poo-poo anyone's ideas or attempts to make something work for their system/program and applaud the efforts.

I WILL say I'd also NEVER spray leaves or grass with water......maybe I don't have to up here since, as Matt Jones has said (like death and taxes) "As sure as it'll rain on coyote traps"

I DO like the way grass looks after a rain on my Pipe Dream Set for sure......and understand the premise. If setting in the woods with leaves, no matter how dry it is or has been, there MUST be wet leaves under the dry ones to accomplish the same idea vs. carrying a bottle of water around?

With leaves OR grass, I think MOST guys put FAR too much cover on their traps/screen. If you use black colored screen, bits and pieces of it being visual after the set is complete is ok......and I'd say more times than not, parts of the trap are visible when I am done as well. I believe its innate in all of us to want to hide that trap/screen completely from the all-knowing eyes of the coyote and fox. DON'T DO IT! Less is more.......and the THINNER the cover, the more likely it'll be operative after rain/freezing/snowing........

Good discussion........let us know how these methods work in practice!

MZ

Mark - my interpretation of your grass covering is “sparse” which works very well. Suspend the levers, pound and salt the sides, screen, a sparse covering of clippings - and whamo catch Wile E. who then magically turns into a mudball!

I still can’t understand how the conduit pounded into the ground will make a pipeline system of drainage to keep all of the water off of the trap and out of the fields. On some sets I have even used elbows, valves, and T fittings but somehow it still rains. Should I run the conduit from one trap set to the next and the next to make a pipeline? Do you know where I would get a permit? Should I send blueprints.

Did Tom send you any royalties yet from my email? 😂

Today, I start my season of coyote hunting on customer properties.

I am looking forward to Coyote U. He, he, he.

Tom pays me nothing....I just pay him!

You need to sign up for Coyote U to look forward to it...........:)

MZ

Up until now, I thought ole Willy Firewood had all of the answers. Definitely dropped the ball this time.


Limestone ring around the set. Everyone knows opossums can’t cross limestone, and it’s about the only fool proof way to preserve good sets in ‘possum country. In a way it’s like the rock strip the ghosts from field of dreams couldn’t cross.


Learn more here:

https://www.amazon.com/Limestone-Paranormal-Properties-Comprehensive-Possibilities/dp/1517326982

Did you get into the eggnog again, Jeff?

Wow, I certainly don’t have all of the answers. I am still working on the questions. We are in a crisis and must all reorganize our lives, jobs, fashion sense, hobbies, and choice of marriage partners. A couple counties here in Ohio including where I live are now officially the northernmost tip of the officially designated area of Appalachia. We finally fit in. We are home! But I want to know WHO has that much authority to declare that? We did not have a war or invasion or Bigfoot, or Elvis, or anything else truly important. The only governing body with that much authority must have made that executive order - the County Fair Board.

Sometimes something just strikes with me. The nicest pan covers with full out nature treatment are like carpeting for the trap pan. A new status symbol

Now that opossum proofing stuff is way above my intellectual level. It is interesting and I BLEEVE it would work. My goal is much lower and that is a possum guard to prevent recatching the one you just released. As a young trapper I quickly learned that I did not like anything about those pouch creatures. So I would release them and remake the set. Next day the possum looked familiar. After a few such experiences. I ,earned to carry the possum off for awhile and release it not near a trap. That bit of edjumacashun was my thesis topic for passing into 6th grade.

It sounds sort of like how you capture and contain Amish people. You lay down on the ground an extension cord that completely encircles them. Then you plug the two ends together to complete the circuit. They will not cross the wire.

You make a good point there Mark. I have been dealing with heavy rain, deep freeze , snow, thawing, deep freeze , mild. Up till fairly recently ive been using a combo of peat moss and wax dirt. Made the switch from dog on traps to mostly dogless with heavy screen and grass. But i have for sure been putting too much grass over the screen. And if top covering with wax dirt been getting a frozen crust on top. Ive found too the fixed jaw has been freezing down also. I hesitate to use salt but....and i have been bedding in wax dirt. Covering the levers too. Thanks for your input, ill try it your way and see what happens.

Also i have a question. When you use stiff heavy screen on a dogless trap with low pan, does it theoretically lower or increase pan tension?

Very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing.


Zag, it has rained so much over the last year that we’ve simply had to get used to mud here, and it sounds like it’s been the same story for people across much of the country. If I were a coyote trapper, I’m sure I’d be bedding every trap using your method. Some day I’ll need to catch a few coyotes, and I’ll be putting your methods to work, no doubt.


I still get a laugh when I think of the ole coyote squirt bottle taste, and Antony’s reaction to your offer. That was definitely one of the highlights of Minktember, and I’m glad I had a front row seat for that stunt.


Mr. Firewood, I know those pouched critters serve a purpose, but they’ll make catching targets a challenge at times. I tell myself that I’m helping quail by removing grinners. If anyone ever prints a map of opossum population densities, they’ll need a fresh ink cartridge, because they’ll be using a lot of ink covering the entire area around where I live. Good thing creamed opossum and sweet potatoes is a hit in my house!

Were don't have possums in my area.

There was a time when possum trimmed coats were a hit with teenage girls. NAFA - rekindle that?

Depends on stiffness.....I'd say in GENERAL it WOULD increase kill area and LOWER pan tension......

MZ

Mark,

Do you put your salt on after or before you tighten the dirt up on the jaw faces?

Good post guys. Thanks for sharing

I'd say after...though I've done it both ways.......

MZ

Ttt