NAFA drumming

Dropped off my coyotes off at Stoughton yesterday. In case anyone was wondering found out the coyotes get drummed and graded in Toronto. Makes sense I guess. Also found out you can't opt out of drumming, not that I would if it's all done in Toronto. But if it were all done in Stoughton and I still couldn't than I probably wouldn't have been real happy.

Nice work RP. Doesn't matter even if you drum them you still get charged.

You would think you would have the option to opt out of drumming and not be charged.

opting out of drumming would likely be a mistake .. When they come out of the box after being sandwiched in there with 60 or so of their brothers they arent too impressive .

If you have ever graded fur all day you would know why you cant opt out of drumming.

I knew they weer graded In Toronto. But I thought they were drummed here. In fact I have seen coyotes and fox In the drumming process here. But that was a few years ago.

Please elaborate.

Well If you have ever handled any un drummed coyotes you would know why. Un drummed coyotes are matted and dirty and greasy It's pretty hard to give a true grade on skins In this shape.
They ship 100s of coyotes In water Mellon boxes all packed together they need to come out of those shipping containers and get cleaned and fluffed up.

Besides what the Beav pointed out,the filth and grease,gets on the graders hands and causes problems,not to mention all the dirt,dust and blood dust hazardous to the lungs.I doubt if the graders would work on the long hair fur if it was not cleaned up in the drum.
Since beaver are not cleaned up,they are the ones the graders hate the most and are hard on the hands.They have to go and scrub up regularly to get the black tar off their hands.

I've looked at hundreds of undrummed coyotes at various trapper sales in the west. Not all of them are matted and greasy and dirty. In fact, I've seen some that are handled just as good, if not better, than the drummed coyotes at NAFA.

I understand what you are saying about the drummed pelts being healthier to work with. That is the answer I was looking for.

And just to be argumentative, in my opinion drumming does not help with coyote pelts (or any species) that have matted fur. Drumming only makes the matting worse. Matting has to be dealt with by hand, not by machine, and NAFA doesn't do any hand grooming of the pelts.

My coyotes were all washed, no blood, grease or matting. Boco, did you take a close look at my fur? The bottom ones are as clean as the top ones. Since the drumming and grading are done in Toronto I understand not being able to opt out because what was said above, they probably need to be fluffed up. Because I guarantee you they can't get em any cleaner! As a matter of fact they will probably pick up a small amount of dirt from uncleaned fur. Not enough to make a difference, but just saying.

Beav, you may be on to something about possibly drumming in Stoughton before the trip north. When I asked where they were drummed he said Stoughton at first then said no it will be in Toronto. This makes me think that it's possible if they get coyotes in early enough they do drum in Stoughton. If that was the case that would hack me off too unless it was graded right after drumming. I think all fur should be graded as soon as possible after drumming so fur is at it's best.

They cannot take the time to sort out sundry owner pelts that have been drummed by the trapper from the other pelts that need drumming.
They will exempt dealer size lots that are held separate and not part lotted.

I agree.Besides what is a buck when people waste thousands on unneeded trapping junk every year.

Cannot or won't, if they wanted to I bet they could. They make money drumming coyotes that don't need it so I see your point. I hope we can agree that the fur should be drummed and graded at the same facility.

It just ticks me off that NAFA can't monitor these forums and answer these questions. All this he said she said Is getting us no where.
I'm about ready to jump ship and go to the dark side on a permanent basis.

I know they read this stuff since I have been called out on different things I've posted.

A multi million outfit acting like a bunch of school kids. Step up to the plate and tell It like It Is.

And I'm not calling them to find out what's up.

Doesn't the drumming process also make the hair stand up more from the static of the fur dropping in the drum. I thought I heard that at one point.

They have a huge drummer set up In Stoughton but the times I've been there In the last year I haven't seen It running. Maybe It's being used to drum ranch mink since the wild fur collection point Is now In the NEW ranch fur facility.

NAFA must be In It for the long haul because there Is a 6 year building program In place. The land has been purchased and the first phase Is up and running.

ive often wondered! Now that we are on a drumming subject how are foxs drummed without damaging them? I've had foxs tear from falling off of hanger on the finished rack! That would be a kick in the groin paying someone to damage your fur! Guess I will find out shortly I ve got a few in Canada now! If the ticket says damaged my question will be answered

Now If NAFA didn't have their head up you know where they would be answering these questions.
Seems like a very poor way to run a business.

There are or was a few WFSC directors on here...

Jim Gibb is our WFSC director here,and he answers a lot of questions on here.Unlike a lot of people,Jim is also a hardcore trapper,and right now he might be in the bush trapping his beaver quota on one of his registered traplines.Maybe he will have a few pics to share too.
I don't know who your wfsc director is in the states or if he comes on here.

During the past 10 years or so there have been 2 different NAFA employees on Tman. One was in upper management and one was a high level grader. They would answer questions and explain how things worked. They never started a thread but would contribute when they thought appropriate.

And it seems like every time they posted, they would be attacked verbally by the NAFA haters. Some times the attacks were even related to the subject of the thread.

Both of them finally stopped posting, not sure if it was by their own choice or if NAFA told them to stop.

For now, the best you've got to answer NAFA questions truthfully is Gibb and a fellow in BC whose user name I don't remember. Both are actively involved with NAFA and tell it like it is.

And it is true that NAFA follows these threads. Even Herman takes a look once in awhile.

They should still put on their big boy pants and answer these questions. There are lots of NAFA supporters and those that might be If they had some answers. You will always have the haters so just ignore them.

Beav, you claim to be well connected with the upper echelon of NAFA folks in the Stoughton office, why don't you work with them to make this happen..........

This is a great forum for sure but imo it would be better if there was a debate free button the original poster could click so as to stop any bs on a thread. If someone broke the rules their post would be deleted and they would get a warning. That way the thread wouldn't go straight down hill and be unproductive and possibly deleted. That way a person could ask a question and not have to worry about it turning into p-ing match.
And we could maybe keep folks on here that answer questions and are helpful. If they seen it was debate free they would more inclined to join in and help out. I frequent another forum that has it and seems to work well. The op clicks a green button and everyone knows to be on there best behavior. What do you all think?

What happens when some one posts incorrect information? If another poster calls them out on it, then the thread turns in to a debate and then some one is in trouble.

Ok, just got off the phone with the guy that took my coyotes mon. As far as opting out of drumming, for the most part no but I can talk to Brian McMillen about it. So I don't know.
This year they get drummed and graded in Toronto. He didn't know about next year. So there is a chance. I said I was concerned about drumming in one place and grading in another. He said nothing to worry about the fur getting smashed or flattened, said they are not baled till after they ate graded. I said wouldn't it be better to be drummed and graded at the same facility? He agreed...

He couldn't remember the cost of drumming. Thought it might be $2. I remember seeing it somewhere that the price went up but cannot recall if it is now $1.50 or $2.

My coyotes will probably never make it to the sale.

It's been $2 dollars for years.

According to my account numbers, the charge for drumming coyote is $1.50. There is a $2 charge for each CITES pelt.

My first thought would be another thread could be started for debate. I would think there has to be a way to keep some threads from going down hill and good people getting run off.

Lots of people are contradictory by nature-like was said,ignore them if it bothers you.They just like to argue for argument sake.Lots of times its good for a laugh.

I brought that up because of what wissmiss said above about the NAFA guys trying to answer questions and things got outa hand. The debating doesn't bother me just thought it might be good option to have.

If the hides are shipped from the Stoughton facility and then drummed and graded In Toronto that would make sense.


AS far as I know If your a WFSC member It's a $1.00 for drumming and your not charged a cites fee. I don't know If that's the current fee. And I don't know what the Non member fees are.

I am quite sure CITES fees are charged everyone at NAFA, whether they are a WFSC member or not. That fee covers the additional paperwork involved to ship the CITES pelts from Stoughton to Canada.

Item number 10 of the United States Condition of Sale on the NAFA Website:



And item 4 of the same document:



The only long hair item I shipped last year was coyote and they charged me $1.50 each for drumming. And I am a WFSC member.

Benefits for being a WFSC member


The commission rate charged on your fur will be reduced by 2% for the 2017-2018 season. Currently the commission rate for all trappers is 11% but as a member of the NAWFSC you will pay only 9%.

NAWFSC members using NAFA’s collectors, depots or pick up services will also receive free freight in Canada or handling charges in the USA for one year. Freight to the Depot or collector location is not covered.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the drumming charge or the CITIES handling charge.

Lots of things have changed since NAFA moved the wild fur operation from It's original location (2 times) It's now In the new ranch fur facility. Hopefully It will In the next year or so move back to the original facility. Then maybe there will be more hands on activity With drumming and grading here In the States.

With the additives they use in the drumming media,the guard hairs are polished making the pelts look a lot better.It also restores the lustre to pelts that have been washed so they look much more attractive to the buyers,if they wind up in the show lots.The solvents in the media also will dissolve pitch mats in the guard hair but will not remove tight matts in the underfur.

The difference is obvious, when drummed there the best they can be. Witch is best for both parties. Even after there boxed all that's needed is a good shake to fluff em up.

I take it you have seen unwashed coyotes after nafa has drummed them? Have you seen washed coyotes after nafa drumming?

Doesn't really matter because I found out today it ain't happening, opting out that is.

Also found out that if Toronto gets too busy to drum everything, they will get drummed in Stoughton and shipped north.
He agreed that the fur maybe wouldn't be at it's very best but said thats just way things are sometimes.

Kinda ironic after finding out our fur can and most likely will at some point be drummed in Stoughton and graded in Toronto ain't it.

The other thing you have to take Into consideration. Is that only a few of those hides become show lots. And I'm betting those hides may get some special attention once they are placed In that show lot category.


The buyers never get to see the other 200,000 coyotes that go up for sale. They don't come out of the bales till they reach the tannery.

I'm just talking grading, as in each pelt gets graded on it's own merit. If you have much fur some of it may not look the greatest after bouncing down the hwy in the back of the Semi to Toronto.
Also the minimum wage folks that's doing the stackin and packin in the watermelon boxes probably don't really care what the fur looks like when it gets to its destination.
The way I see it the fur gets shipped the same way whether its before or after drumming as in no special treatment.

Spot on.

i've seen what drumming does to unwashed coyotes, but not by NAFA. They come out clean and shinny, as long as you get the burs out. If all other yotes in the drum have burs in them it's not a good thang. This is why I wish we could opt out, and do my own. In my little mind the WFSC members should get free drumming.. I didn't ship this year, we'll see what happens in the May sale.. Good luck with your yotes RP, hope ya do well.

Probably goes without saying that drumming would help unwashed fur, probably will put a nice sheen on my washed ones. Do you or anyone know the media and additives and what ratio nafa uses in their drum or is it a secret recipe like bush's baked beans?

Thanks, I need all the luck I can get because it's outa my hands now. Good luck to you as well.

I know they buy the drumming medium In bulk but have no idea what It consists of. They also drum the ranch mink.

You might be able to buy It from NAFA or at least find out where to get It.

I'll try to find out what medium NAFA uses, from the local agent. Maybe Boco knows. I'm going down there next week to visit and discuss the market and life..

You coming down to Stoughton?

Nope, North Webster, In.

I believe they said it was a mixture of hardwood and a softer wood ground to a specific medium grit in one of their put up videos or I had read it in their magazine. From the age of 13 to my early 20s I worked at a fox ranch putting up ranch fox for market. We would skin, flesh, drum, board leather out, then the next day we would turn inside out to finish frying and once they were dry we would drum again. We used a corn cob grit and during that last final drumming before they went on hanger we would add about a cup full of some type of clear liquid in which I do not know what it consisted of. I'm assuming some type of cleaner or to add some shine.

Good info wileytrapper.

Did a search on here and this is what I found for a recipe.

This is per 100 lbs of fine corn cob grit.
In a bucket mix 1 1/2 cups dawn dish soap and 1/2 gallon of water, mix and add to grit. Then let mix in drum for 10 minutes before adding fur.

The poster said this is the recipe that the auction houses use. No reason to doubt until someone proves otherwise.

Also read that some guys use a low volume paint thinner in their own mixture.

Beav, is that spray oxy-clean you use on the bellies?

I use a product called OXI Magic. It's a Clorox prouduct. It's chlorine and bleach free.
It's a great stain remover and It takes out blood like magic.

I'll have to find some of that. Thank you sir.

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