The great double longspring thread!

You hear so much about coilsprings today that I think some people wouldn't think of using/shun DLS's for coon,mink,fox,yotes, and cats. I would like this thread to help trappers learn to use these great tools on their line. Lets get talking bout sizes,brands,uses,modifications etc !

I think most people prefer to use them either in water sets or exposed sets for cats so they don't need to work much at bedding them. That said they can be used at just about any set a coilspring can be used at, you just need to dig a bigger trap bed. As far as current production longsprings I think sleepy creeks are one of the better brands, with their 4.5 longspring in a class of its own when it comes to current production(but still affordable) longsprings.

No doubt a great trap for sure..but when your running a serious line, time Is money and most don't wanna take that extra time bedding a trap when you could just use a coil spring....just my two cents.

Great water traps though..they have there spot on everyone's line.

For the $$, a #3 Victor or B&L with a PIT Pan System installed is still a far cheaper option than the Sleepy Creek.

As Seth said though, I only own them for my cat line (exposed sets). I have no use for longspring traps otherwise. Coils are just easier.

I just bought some used victor 3's and 4's to try this year.
I base plated them and put a d ring on them. I'm also putting new USA chain on them and a few crunch proof swivels.

I really Like my B&L #3's for coyotes. For me it is toss up in time setting them. You dig a bigger bed but they bed solid quickly. The longsprings come up through snow and any crust that sometimes freezes over top. With the springs outside and no levers it seems that their paw is not as crowded when the trap trips.

Besides with our long deer seasons here in the CWD zone, there something to be said about cruising the woods with muzzleloader and longsprings in hand.

[quote=stealthbear]when i make a bed for these longspring i just claw out a couple of trenches for the springs with a claw hammer. the dirt ya claw up is there to pack over them and it really does not take any more time to bed a coil then a long

I agree, plus the 2 springs help in stablizing the trap.

Ive always thought the LS bedded much easier than the CS.

For me they come through cold freezing condition better springs don't freeze down.
The longsprings have caught countless animals personal preference is my excuse.

Because cats are a 'High Value Target' and Long Spring Traps are the Best. DLS traps don't need 4 coils or base plates,as they work fine the way they have been made for two hundred plus years. As previously stated,they bed nicer,and they last forever if taken care of. Charlie

It does'nt take anymore time to bed a Double Long Spring than a coil spring trap.
In most cases its faster. Cause they bed easer.

Nobody has yet mentioned the #11's???

or the duke #5.
[img:center][/img]

Geee
Thought they were both Double Long Spring traps

TTT

If I didn't have to use rubber padded traps on land my whole trapping inventory would be all double long springs. I've had a few situations where the coils were frozen with a track on the pan needless to say I'm working on getting rubber pads on a few of my long springs.

Me 3-another longspring man here.

Back when i started out trapping we couldn't afford six different sizes or styles of traps. After looseing some coons in the 1 1/2 single longs i went to the #2 double long and caught everything from muskrat to coyote in them, they are a most versatile trap, and a good choice if you want to have a few traps left at camp.

Why are DLS a lot more money then a coilspring? MB550=$16 #3 DLS=$20 ???

Probably because the springs on longsprings cost more to produce and are harder to do right. You figure a lot of guys replace the springs on their coilsprings right away and most are not going to be that upset if the springs weaken and need replacing again in 3-4 years or so. On the other hand if a number of the springs on their new longsprings need replacing in 3-4 years most are not going to be very happy with that. Longsprings need to last better. Also not as many longsprings are made anymore which doubtless helps drive up production costs.

Keep them coming!!!

i would rather have longsprings than coils for water trapping. i love how easy they set and bed. the also seem to have more holding power to me.

Newt has a really good method of bedding dbl longs

Here's some I just got ready. Baseplated and new crunch proof on them.


What do you think? My first time to try using these. I like the mountain man look of them.

Could you or Newt share this method?

How do you install the pit pans

So I have a question, I just put a elec cover on my victor #4 pan. And it wobbles bad. How do you adjust pans on a long spring. I checked my others and they wobble also.

Sounds like you need to add a extra washer on the pan bolt.

No pan bolts

PIT PANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Newt has a really good method of bedding dbl longs [/quote]

Could you or Newt share this method?[/quote]


I could show you. But I cant explain it

Stealthbear has it right- also close the eye on the dog as much as you can and still have it move freely - Then put two strands of tie wire threw the pan eye like this -




These mods will eliminate most of the pan wobble and add pan tension.
The groves for the miles trigger are not super deep - the more angle you put on the groves the less pan tension you will have - Takes a little practise to get it right but it does work..
All of my 3 and 4 longs are set up this way..

You could try.

So is it more common now to do Miles Trigger susyem or spend the money and do the PIT pans?

i never understood removing pan wobble with wire, i saw LYNX's archive about that, and i tried it. it helped a little, but not much. if you want pan wobble to be ELIMINATED, try this

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post2573960

OR...........................................order the PIT pans from your puter chair and install them when they show up. I can weld and I like to tinker as much as anyone. I have home built a ton of my trapline eqipment but hear this...

The PIT system is the absolute best thing to happen to older DLS traps. Bar NONE.

I am into these traps $9.80 each with everything you see in the pics.

Yes....I got a fantastic deal on the trap itself at $5 each, but you can get them pretty regular for $7-$8 which would put you at $10.50 after the PIT. All that other stuff is fine if it works for you, but IMO, the below is the only way to go.

OR.........................what ever floats your boat

I've been looking at the sleep creek DLS #3, #4, and #4 1/2, i want to mod them up with the whole nine yards, Like expanded pans, and lamination, i been looking at the #4 since its a little bigger than #3 and lot cheaper than the 4 1/2, the number 3 has a 6 inch jaw spread and the 4 has a 6 1/2 and the 4 1/2 has a 7 1/2, i'm only going to buy a couple and mod them up and try them on flat sets, and if i like them I'll take out a loan from the bank. LOL, if anyone could give advice i would appreciate it. PM me if you like

It is a great beaver trap, but I would be reluctant to set a sleepy creek 4 1/2 on land almost anywhere in east texas without an extremely good reason personally. We don't have to many restrictions on trapping in texas but that is because texas trappers are under the radar of the general public for the most part. All it might take is one bad situation where a trapper showed poor judgement to change that. There really isn't a need for such a large and powerful trap on land when targeting anything less than wolves or lions. I don't think that extra jaw spread is worth the considerably greater gripping pressure it would put on animals coyote size or smaller. Your call, but if you do decide to set them on land please be extra careful.

Thank you Longspring Man.

anyone know what PIT or sterling pan system will fit on a sleepy creek #2 and #3?


JBR

very cool thread, here are some of my modded #2s, victor. They are baseplated, some have heavy duty swivels, lammed, and beefer springs.

Ya that was me longspringman. I'll tell you what running the coils, and longsprings side by side there is no comparison that when the weather gets nasty what trap will still be working when I make the pads work I'll have to post it. I'd rather not have pads, but what are you going to do. Thanks Sterling is one of the places I didn't check.

I have amassed a sizeable quantity of the darn things. After using the #3 and #4 Blake and Lambs last season on yotes and cats I found them to bed very easily especially in dry washes and using drags on ten foot of chain. When they fire off and take hold of the critter they dont lose their grip. Rock solid lock up and holding power to boot.

Fezz, it looks like you used rivets to put in the beefer springs--is that correct? I was planning on doing that to some of my longsprings too. How do they work for you?

Yeah, they are rivets. They hold the springs in there really well and they are strong. I have had little problems with them so far. you just have to have the trap set evenly, teh dog is right where its suppose to be, cause when you mor the springs inwards, it may set the trap off. some filing and bending would fix that.

My favorite double longspring I used on the trapline with me was a #2 Triumph double jaw.I am getting rid of all my #11's though.

anybody got any ides on how to put pan tension on an old #2 triumph dls

and are #11 good all around traps. i am buying five of them.and i hear they will hold big old coons

Read This Thread..

Very nice -Wish I could do that, unfortunately my welds are the reason they invented grinders...

how do you like those center locators.

Y don't you just weld on a base plate.
You are welding anyway.

I am not criticizing you. I am just a wondering

how weld do they hold.

Iam a true user and lover of the DLS trap always have been & always will be ive got more of them than the DCS iam not saying off bout the DCS i just like the DLS traps i have both kinds but i prefer DLS myself ive never had no toruble with them at all

ttt

I am thinking about getting some #2 long springs for my pockets on coon I am having problems bedding my pockets in are sandy silty soil that are in the creeks around here.
Does any one use them? For pocketing coon? all info and recommended brands would be appreciated!
God Bless,
Dustin

We have alot of sand here in upper Michigan and bedding a LS is definitly faster than a coilspring.I use the 3-n victor after using about every make and model of coilspring and am not going back.I could see where they would be a pain if working in heavy clay areas ,we do have some of that here but thank god not a lot.I caught my first coyote up here 30+ years ago in a no.4 newhouse,which at that time had the reputation of being among the best coyote steel on the market.Then the fur boom exploded and LS's were considered outdated and you were'nt considered a trapper unless you jumped on the band wagon and used the latest coilsprings with all the fancy jewelry.After doing it for years I went back to just a simple long spring and love them.

Could someone explain the base plate and lamination? What are the benefits?

Makes the base's and jaw's stronger.
Read all about trap preparation below.

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/13/1/Trap_Preparation_Archives.html

• the wider the trap jaw surface the less chance of foot damage.
• the stronger jaw reduces jaw flexing and prevents the jaw from popping out of the frame.
• the base plate strengthens the frame and allows for a chain hookup near or in the center of the base.
• allows for the release of non targets unharmed
  

Thanks guys. How many losses a year do you figure these mods save you? Out of how many catches? And how long does it extend the life of the trap?

I have more No 2 DLS than coilsprings I love to use em when its get bitterly cold I ve got some old Vics that are as strong as the day they we made got lucky they had just been hanging in a old barn for years never used or barely used . I have some of those aux. springs to strengthen up a few that are a tad bit weak .Got to love the DLS

TTT

Some Victor 3N's with big pan kits from Aaron 32-it is his big pan welded on top of the pit-pan-really easy to install-thought they would make great Bobcat traps

Somebody asked about adding pan tension to a Triumph DLS. I drilled out the pan rivet and replaced it with a brass bolt, washer and nut. Now no pan wobble and I can set the tension as high as I need to. Cuts down on nontarget catches and toe catches.

Someone else may have pointed this out in a previous reply, but, if you live in an area with freeze/thaw conditions coil spring levers will freeze down pretty easy but the springs on a long spring will not freeze down. The bottom side of the bottom of the spring may freeze to the ground but the upper part of the spring will always spring upward. A coil spring lever can stay frozen down. Of course for the long spring to work the dog and pan can't be frozen up.

Who is the best person to do modification on DLS traps ?
Is it Aaron 32 ?
PM me if ness.

Aaron is a great choice and close to you.

http://www.lanestrapsupply.com/


Jason is another.

http://www.customtrapmodification.com/index.html

Is it just me or anybody else feel this way I just can't bring myself to weld on my long springs. Other than to Offset the jaws.

Someone talked about not using a 4.5 dbl because the amount of extra strength is to much for a land set. Would it be possible to put #3 or 4 springs on a #4.5 dbl, you would get a larger trap with a softer grab. Once a dbl locks up it doesn't matter anyways, a # 11 will hold a coyote:

That is a good one blunder, but I think the 4 1/2 is not too much trap so never tried it.

Victor #4 I made dogless with a huge pan for cats...

#2 Dogless with a nice MN coon...

No damage or chewing...no lams either #2 Vic

Working on having complete crossframe/dogless set ups available in the #2 size by Summer, for those that can weld or drill makes a sweet set up! Other sizes to follow. Give me some feedback on what you'd like to see available...

I am waiting on them #2 DLS set ups. I'm not picky about about having the full cross frame. What I really want is the arm I can put pan on and nuts on the cross frame. A #4 DLS dogless set up for beaver in the spring and and coyotes and cats in the fall. A Duke 1.5& #2 coil conversation would be convert my water line over.


I look forward to seeing what models you work on. Your design looks simple, adjustable and stout. I could not ask for more. I spent a lot of time working on dogless set ups for DLS if I had access to yours I would have used them from the get go.

I would not have expected anything less from such a skilled mater craftsman.

They will be sold as a complete set up, it is simple, adjustable for tension, and heavy duty no doubt.

Thanks for the kind words JM...

I for see the price of #2 longs increasing in the near future, cant wait till they come out

A couple of my pals called me 4-11 for years because that's all I owned # 4 B&L's , #11's mont. and sleepy creek , and caught everything in them .
It drove them nuts that I would not conform to the coilspring fad .
I finally caved when MB 750's came out .

That is a SICK #4 dogless Bridger. I recently ordered a duke #5 DLS, a sleepy 4 1/2 DLS and a Bridger #5 to compare frame strength because im not happy about the sleepy #4 DLS that have bent where the jaws are held in place. In my opinion the Duke #5 with a paws-I-trip added already seems to be the way to go...Until jason comes out with some dogless #4 & #5 bridgers. Targeting cat/coyote, but I've had no problems with raccoons chewing on the big longspring as long as its offset. I think if they were $249.99 a dozen for #4 dogless DLS I'd buy em.

As far as fixing the #4's that the frame is bending, I'm thinking of welding some angle on the outside of the frame that will carry from the bottom of the frame, through the 90 turn and through the bottom spring eye once installed back on the trap. Just frustrating that sleepy creek would put out a product that's ALMOST well made. Glad I bought just one to try out.

Watts, my SC's are baseplated and the jaws bubble welded. I know what you mean about the bending where the frame starts up 90 degrees to hold the jaws in place. I bought these traps already modified like that so its not an issue at all.
Either way if I buy more new I will have to try what you are talking about or add base plates and either bend the ends of the jaws up into a 'U' shape or bubble weld them.

Even tho the SC's have this small issue I still like them as good as any other DLS- the pan stop looked like a pain when I got them but after I learned to use it (read tune the trap right) I learned to love them.

Jason, I am first in line, correct?

Have 300+ #2's just waiting to be converted to dogless. Also would love to convert my #4 dls. With those two traps I wouldn't need any others to catch every animal on my traplines.

Are double long springs better than coilsprings??? For both land and water?

I think that overall that would be a matter of opinion.

Ian

I have seen holds on critters with double longs that I have never seen with coils. I feel they grab better, don't silt in as easy as coils, and bed easier in certain situations. Coils are more compact and lighter for the most part. I started with all coils and stared playing with longs and double long and kinda like double longs. The thing that has kept all my coyote traps being coils was there were no dogless double longs. Well I'm hoping Jason will have that fixed in short order.

It's all personal preference

Kelly,

You let me have that little book of secrets you've been carrying around with ya to conventions for umpteen years buddy, oh for just a couple of days, and you sir...are at the head of the class!

Hopefully these add ons will bring a revival to a great under utilized tool!

Gonna really have to race around at conventions now Mr.!
-Jason

Alright hey thanks J M i have a some long springs and that is all i use for muskrat foothold wise, but i use coils for land sets but i might just switch over because i just like setting the long and double long springs better anyways so yea hey thanks again!

What is the best cheap but good quality brand for double long springs, and long springs?

New there is 1 choice for a #3 Sleepy Creek
Choices for #4 SC & Bridger I have used SC like pan set up don't like frame
Choices for 7" SC #4.5 Duke #5 Bridger#5 use Duke and they do what I ask. Bridger use them and not a fan of pan and springs seem softer but plenty strong to hold beaver.
Choices for #11 Duke Bridger and SC Have a few Duke's I have ye to get them to preform the way I want SC great trap.

You might want to look at these threads
http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3714255/Re_Duke_1_ls
http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3700537/1

Yea i like the sleepy creeks personally, and do you think that the sleepy creek #3 is better than the Bridger #4 for beaver?

Jason,
Are you going to have the cross frames already with a base plate and d ring on them? Or will that be extra?

Jason, I am first in line, correct?

Have 300+ #2's just waiting to be converted to dogless. Also would love to convert my #4 dls. With those two traps I wouldn't need any others to catch every animal on my traplines.


Kelly,

You let me have that little book of secrets you've been carrying around with ya to conventions for umpteen years buddy, oh for just a couple of days, and you sir...are at the head of the class!

Hopefully these add ons will bring a revival to a great under utilized tool!

Gonna really have to race around at conventions now Mr.!
-Jason

What little book of secrets you talking about?

Exactly!

To the top For John S

I can hardly set my 4.5 sleepy creeks by hand.if anyone has some setting tips Id appreciate it. I probably could set across my knee if the spring eye didnt get stuck on the post every time.

Sleepy Creek #4 setters use them for big long and body grips.

yep, I have seen the setters. Id really like to get better at setting by hand. Im not heavy enough to stand on and compress the springs.

When I get a beaver in one wet hands, wet trap, wet leg, and tired at the end of the day I am glad I have my setters. I hope it never happens to you but if you ever get caught in one and it is anchored. I hope you will have a pair of setters with you. I'll be watching to see if anyone has a better idea.

At the NTA convention Tom Florin had a pretty neat setter.

Come on this is the great double long spring thread. I never seem an old wolfer pictured with setters. ... Not that they didn't use them. I know there were setters for bear traps. I even tried to find a video of one of these bear trap setting contests and came up short. There has to be someone here with some big longspring skills.
Some 4s I can break over my knee. One side then the other. No way on the sc 4.5. The spring eye hits the post and I'm done.

So , disadvantages include being more difficult to set and are slower than coils.

Disagree completely about double longsprings being harder to set and slower than coils.

I Would agree that the jaw close speed is a bit slower on a long than a coil but , with proper pan tension and the animal being committed there should be no difference in catch. With the good comes the bad Sleepy Creek has made it's springs shorter than most #5's but lockup strength the same. This weight saving compactness also makes them harder to set. A mighty fine trap but there are draw backs with the advantages.

Try setting a CDR with out setters.

I will set #2 longs all day over 1 1/2 coils. And my hands still won't be tired.

Try setting the 4.5 sc.

One doesn't need to use such a big trap to catch fur so I'll give you that one but only that one-rest of the longsprings from #4's on down in size are easy for anyone to set-no different than a coil-actually easier because one has more spring to use-get a hold off.

Exactly!


Most people can set #5's over their leg due to the mechanical advantage of the extra length of the spring. No the 7" DLS are not needed for beaver but they are nice. Every snapped #4 Sleepy Creek I set last year was holding a beaver. If that trend continues I'll switch my primary beaver trap.

I think the guy's in Alaska like the 4.5's for wolves also.

I like the 4.5, I just with I could set it without tools.
If I remember right the boss likes coils over longsprings these days. I was curious as to why if Mr. Dobbins sees the post.

This morning at 0500hrs I met up with a guy and bought a dozen #3 Offset DLS Vics that are actually stock they acquired when they bought Blake & Lamb. Some are stamped US on the jaw. I don't know if I have ever set a long spring that was stronger (I have not done a SC 4.5). Bought a dozen.

Makes John a happy boy!!!!!

http://youtu.be/H4ItwksUp3k

Setting a 4 1/2 by hand/foot

I am not a strong man so I think others could set the trap this way

Sorry about the sound

Wish the mylting trap setter was still available. Those 4.5 sc would be cake then.

I just got a package from F&T That contained some #4 Bridger DLS. A very nice tarp. Well rounded jaw face for the cat K-9 trapper. I'll be squaring them some for beaver (I gotta try). I will change the chain hookup to a to a 3N style and the pan set up will go this summer. The springs are a little more stout than I was expecting (a good thing). I think this trap will suit my needs as a base trap for modifications better than the Sleepy Creek. I now see why some stood up in defense of this tarp and I am glad they did. I view this trap much differently now than before I had one in my hands.

How would the # 2 compare to the #1 1/2 for muskrat?

It is same jaw spread but 1 more spring.

#2 DLS takes more space than I have a lot of the time when setting for rats. I could get 1.5 longs in over 50% of the spots I like to set. I run 1.5 Duke coils for rats they were what I started with and have served me will. As far as comparing the two for rats the will both do the job bedding space and holding power are going to be the only differences. Holding power factor can be somewhat offset by changing where the chain is hooked up to away from the spring. I tried some 1.5 longs for rats and did not like how the rats seemed more likely to wrap in vegetation and the trap not moving and the rat still able to move = a few lost rats. I am not currently using any longs when targeting rats. They would most likely work very well on a float set up. I just have not found a way to effectively use floats in the fall.

It's easy to hammer new life into original, weak longsprings. Longsprings weaken when the U-shape of the bend in the spring ends up looking like a V. To remedy this, put a short length of heavy-duty steel pipe inside the bend of the spring. Lay one end of the pipe onto something solid, and do the same with the other end of the pipe. The trap will now be hanging from the pipe by the spring. Take a hammer and hit the outside bend of the spring. The pipe will be jammed up inside the bend of the spring and force the spring to open up and form the desired rounded U shape. Waah-laah! The spring will be as good and strong as when it was new! Don't overdo the hammering on the spring, or you may crack it.

That is awesome Redeagle!!! Thanks for sharing that i never knew that!

ttt

I'm a new trapper and only ran Duke coil springs last year. Last week I happened to get my hands on a few Victor and B & L double long springs off Craigslist and after messing around with them in the shop... I think I'm growing to like them more than the coils. I'm excited to put them in the field this fall - going to take many tricks from this thread and use them. Thanks everyone!

it truly is not hard

A pile of 2 B&L DBL's most are old school.



Newer one next to older one, the better looking one is the older one.Big difference in the steel used.

I have a couple of #11s that, when I rotate the springs forward to allow the loose jaw to fall, the springs want to rotate back no matter what I do.

Anyone have a cure for this? It's o key on about 2 or 3 traps and I want it fixed.

I have had this problem on dukes. I found the original indent in the spring that catches the jaw to hold it in place was either not deep enough or wide enough. Sometimes both. I just took a small file and filed the notch appropriately. They stay in place just fine now. It doesn't take a lot of filing for this to work. I added a photo of where to file the groove.

That's why I love this site. The few I'm having the trouble with are actually dukes. A file on that notch...there shall be. Thanks for the help from Michigan, good sir.

I had some victors #1's that had a spring added and they set fine until I waxed them and then a couple wanted to slip. I just scraped off the wax in that area and soaked in some water they after that spot rusted they held were they should.

both these coon caught in the #00 Double Longspring...these are medium iowa coons

That's why I love this site. The few I'm having the trouble with are actually dukes. A file on that notch...there shall be. Thanks for the help from Michigan, good sir. [/quote]

You are welcome. I use the little (needle files) and they work good for these small areas.

TTT

First year using double long springs and I'm quickly growing to prefer them! Picked up these off Craigslist. They looked like rusty junk when I got them but cleaned up nice! I put a Miles Trigger on them and it worked great, but after a catch it can get a little goofed up... I was one of the people that tried to save money and not use PIT pans but looks like I'll be joining the club and putting PIT pans on my 2x longs next season.

#4 Blake and Lamb






#3 Victor

I have used large double longs for beaver and snow canines and #11s for coon and like them. Never used them for canines in dirt until this year. Shouldn't have waited so long! Sleepy Creek #3 offset - stock except for a shock spring.

I feel connected with history setting longsprings.

#2 DLS on my pocket sets have been my best producer on muskrats this year.! Rat populations way down here.

I find the DLS easier to set then the coil springs for me. I run all victor #3 offsets, I have a question will a 11 DLS hold a coyote if he gets in it? I was thinking about using them for foxes but, coyotes dont know to stay out of them.

I seem to recall an article a few years ago about a fella who was ADC trapping "suburban" coyotes using #11s. Those little buggers lock up tight, so they would probably hold with proper staking and such, but he better hit the pan dead center!

I have issues with Sleepy creek long springs. The first time i set one of my number threes i dissembled it. Anybody else have this issue. I fixed the problem just wondering of anyone else had the same issue.

What do you mean (I dissembled it)?

LoessHillsArcher,
Looks like that yote prefers longs also!

Love my Victor and Blake and Lamb longsprings whether single or double. They are my all time favorite traps-still own many hundreds of them.

The jaws popped out bc the base bent

They catch fur just not what you expect for the price.

We have to use rubber jaw here so I added these and welded the base plates so maybe won't have trouble with coming apart.

chris,what traps are them?
All my big longs have PIT pans and are baseplated.

#4 Sleepy Creeks

Thaks chris.
Is the jaw spread 6 1/2 outside or inside ?
I run many 4s also,are you liking the Sleepys?

Honestly couldn't say on the spread. Just got them done other day and our season doesn't open until the 22. To be honest they didn't feel as heavy made as I thought they would though. Have thought about adding large pans on them too

Thanks chris.
When you have some time could you check the jaw spread and the size of the pans also ?
Love all my longs and trying to find the trap I am looking for, as we can only go up to 7" spread until Dec. 1 on our wolves.
Trying to get as close to the 7" mark as I can.

If we could run Sleepy 4 1/2s early on ,I would be in heaven!

TTT

Love longsprings!!

Wyoming big iron with 330 springs

Someone needs to make these again, they work well for the 4.5 sleepy

Hey guys, I've been gathering some dls for next season to try on canines. One question I have...does anybody have any issues with throwing the canines foot out of the trap. I thought this might be an issue because of the way dls need to have both springs folded back in the direction of the dog side jaw to make the jaws lye flat. I use #11 dls for coon and never had these issues, but I thought it might be a problem with fox or yotes.

Has anyone ever set the trap so that the springs are facing the hole in a dirt hole set to avert this issue?

Snares&All...excellent, excellent thread by the way!!!!!!!!!!

Yes on single and double dirt holes. Put a jaw guard near the loose jaw.

I figure I will jump on in here. I just bought a couple of stock victor #3s. I was planning on adding a paws-i-trip system, but I am not sure on how difficultl it is to do. Also, I was going to go ahead and baseplate them, but I dont have access to a welder. Does anyone have any ideas/comments. These will be used for coyotes/fox.

Hey back strap. U can bolt the baseplate to it. The pan system is no problem at all to I stall.

All my vic #3's i drilled a hole next to the cross frame and put a j-hook through and then attached my chain. I have yet to have a bent frame. No need to baseplate. Been using them this way for 18 yrs.

Like this

In Trapper Arts catalog they still sell them,states up to size #4.

Give Adam a call!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j....62922401,d.aWc

Ok thanks guys I appreciate it

Can you take a single longspring trap and add a spring to it to make it a double longspring? I don't see why not or am I missing something.

Yes

thanks!

When you set a dls for coyotes which way does the coyote come across the
trap? (ex. do you bed it with dirt hole toward center of springs
or does it step across the loose jaw?)

I put the dog toward the hole and use a jaw guard the size of a baseball at the loose jaw. Forces the yote to come in at a 45 deg, steps more between the jaws. Tom mirandas yote book is good for describing this

#4 sleepy creek

I caught my first otter in an old victor #2 dl set in a culvert wired to a log set for coon. For water trapping I still use the #2 now I use the sleepy creek #2 dl and I have caught coon, otter, and fox in this trap. The dl will always have a place on my trap line

Has anyone used the lightning helper springs to bring back life in their longsprings? You can get these for .95 for #1,1.5, 2 longsprings. I was also wondering how difficult they are to install.

I have used them, they definitely help and not hard to install.

Tack weld or drill and pop ribbit them into place. If you drill slow and be prepared to eat up bits.

I have used them, they definitely help and not hard to install. [/quote]
Tack weld or drill and pop ribbit them into place. If you drill slow and be prepared to eat up bits. [/quote]



The drilling part is what I was interested in. I would drill and rivet as I don't weld. I would get some good carbide drill bits and metal cutting oil for the job.

Got to sign off as it is getting late here in the east, but have another question and I will check in tomorrow.

Will the extra weight of adding helper springs slow down the trap too much on #11 and #2 dls traps?

Not that i have noticed

Thanks, that sounds great. Just don't want to be missing furbearers if I add them to traps with weaker springs.

It's a pretty simple reason the big dbls are not used much from a saftey aspect if I stick my hand in my bridger 3 coil I can get out by myself .... If I get my had caught in a Vic 4 dbls it is very difficult to escape by yourself

all you need to do to get out is put a foot on the left spring push it down, put your right foot on the other spring staying squarely on top of the trap. youve used your feet to compress the springs.
I suggest practising that a few times befor you need to do it in an emergency.
Jump up on both springs of the trap without tipping it over.

Sound like u have never used a setter and "c" clips. Get caught by a MB750 or CDR when waist deep in water and trap is anchored. How is that safe or easy to get out of. No matter what your using you gotta use your head.

I am slowly trying to convert my whole line to DLS.

My rat traps will most likely remain coils.

My grandpa was a trapper in the 50-80's. After he passed my dad saved all his traps. This was my first year trapping and I found alot of old Victor #2,#1.5 double long springs. I cleaned them up and they still work awesome. Still have a few more to clean up. My dad has shown me alot of thier old school tricks Im still learning more as I go. Some of the stretchers they were using for FOX and what not are still around with their mods on them so its pretty neat stuff. Have to say Im hooked on Double LOng Springs dont think I could switch to a coil spring. Its gonna be a good season next year

I am slowly trying to convert my whole line to DLS. [/quote]

At this seasons end I was at 95% coil springs, but am currently at 50% DLS.

This is funny, I went back to Long Springs for 4-5 years and now I'm going back to coils

Just curious, why the switch?

I love my longsprings. Still my favorite trap design and always will be.

I like the newly designed and marketed Bridger #3 modified Dogless design coil springs from MTP.

Most of the new innovative and exciting designs in traps are coming out in the coil spring models.
However PIT has some new Step Down Pans for the long springs that are innovative and exciting.
And of course the SVS #4 dogless
innovative and exciting

I'm looking to get some fox traps for this fall and need some help. We have a lot of rain in the fall along with freezing temps at night, and I will also be using these traps in the snow. I can't decide between getting duke 1.75's or sleepy creek #2 longsprings. What would you guys reccomend? I could get more dukes for the number but I think the sleepy creeks would stay working longer.

Thanks, Alex

#2 longs for me.

Helper springs on longs? I use 'em, not to add to holding power, the mechanics of longs do that by themselves. I added them just to make them a bit faster. I too am a fan of #2 longs, one of my favorite predator traps. I also use #11s for coons. Here are a few pics. Sorry for pic of mangy coyote at bottom, does show my booster springs on the #2s. I took a REALLY cheap mod on mine and just used a few wraps of wire at the bend to help hold the booster in place, that's all. Just want to keep it in place, dye and treat it with rest of trap and it lasts for years, seriously. I haven't replaced any yet and that's about 30 years of use, seriously! Fun thread, thanks for all the cool posts and pics, everyone. Oh and yes, you can take a singe long and make it a double long, but the shape of the jaws is key. Older style jaws that were symmetrical, work great. some though are not symmetrical, a little more squared off on one side and not on the other side, those do not work.
Jim

Here are couple of singles modified into doubles. First is a 1.5 single with symmetrical jaws, and a second spring added...to make this a #2 long. I also center swivel all my traps, and don't forget to do some filing on the pan & dog assembly, as well as squeeze the eye of the dog a bit to take the travel/play out of it.
Here is the #2 I made out of an old 1.5 long with symmetrical jaws...

Here is a #11 made out of a #1, again the #1 had symmetrical jaws...

shortening the travel of the pan and making the dog fit the pan notch better with a little filing work...


Couple of badgers in modified #2 longs...
first one you can barely see it but that's wire wraps at the bend of the springs, holding the boosters in place....





Some cat pics, all in #2 longs



Coyotes in #2 longs...




coons...well they are prevalent here and any predator set I make will take a coon also, and since coon are bread and butter of our fur market here I won't be upset to find them in predator sets...but means I have to lean toward smaller traps that will work for anything I can catch here too. can see wire wraps at bends of springs here too, holding the boosters...

and of course, #2s on fox...a great fox trap...



Again, sorry for the ugly coyote pic, but shows the hold of #2 long well adjusted, and the booster springs in place, held in place at bends by several wraps of wire...


Jim

Jim, nice pics and good info. I agree the symmetrical jaws work better for adding extra spring, but the non symmetrical will work just a little more awkward to set.

I have been working on using a little modern design with the great lockup of long springs.

Does anybody here know the jaw spread of the victor #2 longs?

Thanks, Alex

4 5/8" outside
4 3/8" inside

Thanks guys

Alex

Here is a little trick for dls . Take off the pan , break it off the shank, now take a lever from an old broken 11/2 coil run a bolt through the holes tack weld the bolt on the hump over the pin that held the original pan on each side ,on the inside .but before welding on flatten out the part that holds the coilspring and the opening for jaws ,cut off the end of lever,weld on ,or pop rivet pan on in position of choice. weld bolt in position ,put nut on end ,tighten to adjust pan tension. this works on any long spring with a Humped cross .You can and I do cut a double bladed slot in the end between eyes for visual ingagement of dog,works great. been doin this for years on #2s &3s .

Very cool-- Bookmarked!

the discription is a little hard for me to wrap my head around. wish you had a picture of how it ends up.

Just picture a PIT pan OR an original Pinch pan but with a bolt &nut,the nut will tighten up against the side of the cross or hump to allow for tension. two legged pan with adjustment,& no wobble . 11/2 levers will fit 2 3 4 dls 0r any trap with a 3/4 inch wide cross,try it it works great.

I gotta try that out. Today.

I thought it was easier to do this

Start with this


move the post back and shorten the dog


looks like such


Repeated



Already in Australia with pete152

That slop is taken out by closing the dog eye and welding the loop closed then they are about bullet proof. I thought you and others would like to see how it can be done without having to buy other parts.

Looks good. I like it...

I've been getting a few ready too:

Good stuff!

The dls is a great trap and there is something kinda special about useing one to catch something... My problem with them is more a saftey concern I can (and have...) gotten out of a #5 bridger coil one handed with my feet. I have a hard time settin an old #4 Vic dls with two hands let alone one and I can't set it with my whole body weight ... FYI im not a small guy I'm a 205lb football player

Setting dbls is no more dangerous than coil spring being caught by one , a time or 20, I have found that pan tension is your freind, 4.5 lbs on every thingno more toe catchs and getting caught is almost gone some time for get ck. Tension and I run wire screen on everything for pan cover if don't put more tension you will be sorry. But grew up setting and useing newhouse traps sleepy ck. Trap 4.5 jaw posts are taken from there this why guys have problem setting it over there knee.sharp edges gone lamanation onjaws and you will see less damage than on coil spring in that size.i like both dbls&coils they both have place on my line.

If you carry a pair of Sleepy Creek setters an some u clips getting yourself free is no all that hard even in deep water.

What about the little #1 ls? Did this little clamp loose it's popularity over the years? Have heard little mentioned of on this thread. Any lovers left out there?

I am working to get all my foothold traps down to longsprings. My rat traps willl continue to be coils but that is the only critter I see my self targeting wiith coilsprings.


I am not sure why most peple do not use them more but that is what makes the world go round.


Yes Les someday I will try a CDR. I just do not see myself swiching to them due to my beaver staking methods. I will give them a fair shake some time in the future though. I might like them if I go back to rods.

JM,I use CDRs on cable slides too...
I just had to post this for ya again...thats a Victo #4 on a cable slide I got from Rally Hess,and the weight is railroad iron.I use these dblsprns when I run out of big traps,and sometimes for the fun of it,but never while trying to catch a wisened up problem beaver.If I happened to have even bigger longsprings I would not hesitate to use them.But they are not compact,and dont fit in to my style of trapping as well as coils which can be set anyplace a lonspring can be set,the converse is not always true.

In reguards to your getting your first CDR...I'me praying for you.

They do all I ask of them. More compact I might have to send you a doctorered up #4 Bridger then you can see what you have been misssing. Give me a couple weeks and I should have one ready to send to you.

Just bring to Barnum...I'll bring a CDR.

I figured I'd just send you one then you can tell me what a peice of junk it is or if they might be worth setting.

How does a #11 work on Grey Fox? I don't have any rats near me anymore and I have a bunch off #1s I want to convert to #11s to use on greys.

Worked on these ones the other day, turned out great!


Put 2 pounds of pan tension on them. Is that good for coyotes with the occasional fox and coon?

Backstrap they look like a couple nice traps


Cat trapperI like your signature.

I'll certainly give you my opinion,JM.

I hope I wont have to include a setting video for setting a dogless. Do you like center swiveled or side of the frame? Have you ever looked at a #5 SLS?

Havnt seen one,can it be set over the knee ? Doesnt matter where its swiveled.

Yes they can be set fairly easily over the knee. Now I imagine tomorow I will have to spend some shop time to get it started.

Do it because you want to,not because you have to.I can see you enjoy modding traps.

I realy enjoy making the perfect tool for the job. One that every time you set it youu know it is the best trap you can place there I like not having a questions in mind that if a critter steps in that set it will still be there when I make my next check.
I would like to get a respone from someone who has diffrent expiernce than I do.

I talked with a guy that sets exposed for cats and if I were trapping rock there would be some modifications. Nice to hear what works for others.

Wife is STRONGLY sugesting that we make a sliding green house for spring and late fall veg.

J M it has work for you I agree , what works for you or me may not work for others, I believe theres nothing new under the sun , just new to us , the exchange of info.is good.and it might help others a long the &shorten the learning curve from someone and when came on here, ie sign on.i believed that what it was.and for the most part has been. Thank you J M pup for all you bring.

Repairing the dog and pan on a long spring trap.
I had this #3 Newhouse and the cross piece was broken where the dog attaches.
I ground off the rivet attaching the cross to the frame and replaced it with a Victor cross by bolting on the cross.
I would rather have replaced it with a Newhouse cross however they are very hard to find. At least I can set this trap.
This is a good fix if you have broken the cross where the dog attaches.





unfortunately I now have a Newhouse trap with a Victor pan. Not so cool.

In my limeted expieriance I love how easy it is for me to set long springs, bed long springs, and their great holding power. Which leads me to my only bugaboo about them. When I use my Bridger #5 double longs for beaver trapping they're a joy to set and bed, but a real PIA to get a 40 lbs + beaver out of them when I make back foot catches.

With a coil spring I just throw the swampy booger on its back, put my thumbs on the base and use my fingers to compress the springs enough to release the back foot. With by Bridger's it become a dis-jointed contortion act for me on a sloppy river bank. Anyone here know what I'm talking about and have a fix?

Sleepy Creek makes a body grip setter that also works well with the big long springs. Comes with U deals to facilitate setting.
mac

with the 330 body grips and the big longs you need a spring compressor.
Ive seen one on the market for longs that you put your foot on.

Yep i know what ur talkin about!

Schmitt trapping supply has dbls setter is pretty nice that locks I got two them for working on and mods for dbls. Will work nicely for ya.

Been eyeing them. I might have to order them when I order my 3/0 double link chain.

Les the frame is ready, working on pan and lamination.

You will like them. Guys and they cheap enough to think.

Has any one converted coil springs to long spring?

On those Bridger 5 DLS it is sometimes hard to get a beaver out on dry ground. Anyone center swivel them to drown in less water? Would like to see your method of attaching.

The U spring hooks are easily made out of nails BTW.

PIT center locators would be an easy enter swivel for the Bridgers.

I typically use the bottom of my knee to main frame of trap. This way as the springs are being compressed the weight of the critter pulls it free from the trap.

Doing it with a live otter in it is a little tricky.

JC Connor's makes the base plate for the number five. The bridger LS's base plate doesn't come out to the end
of the frame so I had to place a nut under each end of the new base plate before I welded it to the trap.

image

This is the way I roll with these bridger #5. They are modified to hold an occasional cougar I get killing my sheep.


image

http://www.sheepprotectioninformation.info/modification/bridger_num_five/

Drain man are you using lug offset or are you cutting an off set in?

I ordered it with offset, filed them down and straightened the curve in the jaw that kept one side from meeting up with the other.
I also ground on the welded lug to get the lamination strip over by the edge of the jaw

Looks like it will be up to the task

Im looking into some factory offset jaws I can put on the #5 bridger LS.
It looks like MB750 offset jaws are very close to the size just riveted onto the frame.
Modifying the #5 bridger LS to except the MB750 offset jaws wouldn't be that hard.

I emailed Rob Cavin at MTP and ask him if he would consider putting out the bridger #5 LS and coil spring traps with factory offset jaws.

Drainman,
Do the rivets for the 750 jaws fit in the holes in the Bridger 5 frame or do you need to drill the holes out?

Also, do you have an exact outside jawspread measurement on that trap?

I just got my first longsprings in Friday and can't wait to get my mods done and get them set. I ordered 2 #4 1/2 Sleepy Creeks for beaver and 2 #3 offset jaw Sleepy Creeks for land trapping.

I've read through a bunch of this and saw no mention of Newhouse traps. I have a pile of 4's and most still have very strong springs even though some are probably pushing 100 years old. Did they just make better springs in the old days or what?

Yep

The MB750 coil spring offset jaws would not work on the Bridger #5 special LS. the stock bridger LS jaws are tapered at the bottom.
I tried to grind them down but the trap wont fire. the jaws have to be narrow where they attach to the frame.
the springs wont come up easily past the riveted jaws. to get them to work would be to much fabrication when ya can buy a sleepy creek with offset jaws.

Question what is desired in the trap, whats wrong with trap , how easy is it to fix, and do they make a trap that way already, these are questions we should ask, imo I kind of get caught in trap myself if I do this to trap it would be better sometimes yes most times no. But there is some very talented people, here if and some valuable insight,
Red

I'm not picky, I just want a Bridger #5 LS with factory offset jaws and the chain off the spring and onto the frame.
Why Bridger LS? I like there springs and the price of there traps.

A Duke #5 DLS is center swiveled PIT pan. A little work with the torch and you have off-sets. I sand the jaw faces off to make them look pretty. This might be a cheaper alternative to the SC offset. I just finished a SC 4.5 off-set 3/4" thick jaws. I like the trap but it is the only DLS I can not set by hand. I will be using setters and clips my shoulder just says no way. I still need to work the pan over a little but I think it will hold a Yeti if he ever steps in the darn thing.

I was raised up using ls traps, my grandpa & my dad both used em, today I use both ls & cs, IMO ls bed alot better, more stable, people that say they are a pain to bed may be just a little lazy. I inherited my dad & grandpa's traps when they passed & they still work very well, they took care of them, a few had to have spring work but other than that it's all good to go, thats the way they are if you take care of them they'll last longer than cs. My go to trap for water trapping!

TTT for ojseidel

This is a great thread.

I just purchased some stock #4 victor dbls. I'm wanting to upgrade the chain and the hookup. I want to keep it connected to the spring and was wondering if anyone knew a good way of doing this?

Couple thoughts come to mind. You can take the trap apart, remove the old attachment, and slip a D ring in it's place, use your choice of attachment to put the chain on. I'd still put a swivel right at the trap. Personally I like the original piece as it already swivels, but I put most traps on a long chain on a drag...in the brush...in the snow...so most critters don't get that much pull. Down there you might have trouble with a big yote staked on a short chain, but I don't know.

I like talking about long springs....

On page 4 of this thread, there's a picture of some old Victor 3Ns. You might could fabricate yourself that attachment. Take some rod or a big enough nail, bend it to shape to fit around the spring, weld a the right size nut in between the ends, and put a J hook through the nut. Similar to a sterling style swivel.

Going to review this whole thread now. Lots of good stuff.

Hey trapperdan, check this post out..

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3830080/Re:_#3_longsprings_swivels#Post3830080

Thanks guys!! I think I've got a pretty good idea now.

Given the design and mechanics of the dbl longs, do weaker springs effect holding power or just the speed at which the jaws close?

I have used the KB Teardrop rings on longsprings as replacement clevis. Just run the J-hook thru the end of teardrop ring and you have a double swivel at the end of the spring.

TTT

If a good trap company here in the US made a #3 or #4 double longspring trap, they would sell all that they made!

Sleepy creek makes very good 3 and 4 dls

X2

Anybody know what the inside jaw spread is on the old victor #4 DLS?

Hey Grey, I believe the spread is 6 1/4", and the weak springs is more of a speed thing than lock up. It would take some pretty dang weak springs to affect the locking. Take it easy.

VERY good advice by Seth Doty. Don't be careless setting traps,and especially large traps.

I thought be something to look at.

Dogless above and dog on here. Man i love cat traps

Red,that's nice set up dogless,size of pan is great also!

Thanks Kevin. Wanted to make sure they were legal in Pa. I figured the springs would have to be really wore out to affect the lockup and holding power also.

Love the Victor #4 dls and especially factory offset. Also the #3Ns without changing in any way. Nothing wrong in doing things to them that you like either,great traps to me.

Something different #3 Sleepy Creek with rubber pads.

I like the sleepys thats what mine is above its a sleepy #4 offset fully modded. I like the pan system on them alot since i put on heavy pans i can tighten the tention bolt where i like it and then put a drop of saulder in the nut and on the bolt side of the nut so it never backs off and keeps tention just right catch after catch. I wish you guys didnt have to run rubber over there tncat some day you should make the road trip and run line with me for a couple of days.

For those who run Sleepy Creek #3's and #4's, are the #3's easier to set than the #4's?

Anybody use the Bridger #4's and how do you like them?

Love those big pans, Red. I had put my Bridgers in the closet but I think I'm gonna dig'em out and do a little modding.

Tncat did you get those pad kits from JC Conner's? Good looking setup.

They do make a trap setter that gerald schmitt sells that locks for longspring I use it when modding traps.. to keep the set.
For those that are getting up there or have weaker hands and when you get caught they are nice to use if you don't leave in the truck

Yes ....I had some that fit #2 Bridgers ...reformed the metal . The pads where to short, I keep rolls of J C's pads I had to use.
I have some # 3 Victors DLS also with pads. Now my brother has been saving scrap metal and cutting my metal strips at his work place for me.

#3 Victor

Nice tncat.

Thanks ...red mt

A Bridger #4 for ya. Ordered a dozen from MTP & they added the 3/16 offset & lamination for $23. I got them toward the end of the season last year, added the shock spring, name tag, ran them through the dishwasher, splashed them with F1 & put some in the dirt. Got 2 yotes, 1 red, 1 grey, 1 opossum & 1 skunk. I am pleased with them. The first yote was held by 2 toes & removed the trap pan. The pans could be better & I will swap them out eventually. I also added center locators to most before I dipped them this year.

The pit pan recommended for most #4ls did not fit, had to grind on the frame on the one I installed. I happen to have one for a #5 & looks like it will work just fine.

That Bridger #4 is a nice looking trap.

Bridger #4 I MODIFIED with baseplate and D ring and PIT pan


Bridger #5 I was working on


I think I actually put the stock pan back on the #3 I know the PIT didnt work too well on one of them

Bob and jay
Traps with them pit pans looking good.

Why can't trap manufacturers be honest about jaw spreads?

Sleepy Creek #3 offset DLS...suppose to have a 6 inch jaw spread. Whether inside or outside, it doesn't meet what is claimed.

Also got a Bridger #4, same thing, but the picture wouldn't load.

Measure inside of jaw lever to lever sides I have noticed that some traps will measure out that way. But you are certainly right.

I measured that way also. Still doesn't cut it.

And the offsets are sposed to be bigger too.
Inside is 5 3/8 out side 5 7/8 ? On those 3s ?

Yep. The 5 7/8 is generous, its more like 5 13/16.

One of my tricked out #11s

Might not seem a big deal to some, but when you pick a specific trap to satisfy your states regs and you are paying over $22 a piece the trap should be what the company says it is. In Pa. we can go up to 6.5 inches for outside jaw spread. I bought some #3 SC because they state that this trap has a 6 inch jaw spread so I figured there would be enough room to add laminations if I chose to do that in the future. Well that will not be a problem with the #3, but the kill area is smaller than I was anticipating. Now if I want to get the largest kill area and still be able to laminate will I be able to get #4 SC which are suppose to have a 6.5 inch jaw spread or is the jaw spread going to be smaller than stated like the #3's? Its a big guessing game that is more expensive than it should be because of inaccurate information.

Just sent a message to Sleepy Creek and asked them to clarify their jaw spread measurements. Is the number they state for inside jaw spread or outside jaw spread and why is it not what they state it is? Awaiting an answer.

1970's victor high lever with no 4 springs added
Some improved longspring connections also.

I put pit pans on all of my #3 and #4 long spring traps. I see some traps with the standard Pit Pans and others with the 4x4 covers welded to the top of the pit pans (For cats). What are the advantages of the big pans that cover most of the inside of the jaw spread? What are the advantages of the smaller standard size pans over the large pans? Is it just a cat strategy to use the big pans, or are the bigger pans good for coyotes?
Thanks
Doug

Victor no.4 made dogless and wolf proofed.

No 4 triumph I made dogless and baseplated, beat up by a wolf we released, and repaired. I pounded the pan back flat but left a wolf tooth dent in it for character.

It has a Homemade dogless trigger made from an old Vic no3 lever and a 30d nail.

Home made trap I made in shop class when I was 15, 1976
I added a TS pan recently, and now it has been rebuilt as a double longspring

I think big pans are a current fad. It has gone from big to small to normal and back and forth over the last 150 years.
Just my opinion, the biggest pan I use is the SVS pan. If you think big pans work for you, go for it. I'm old school. Factory size is fine for me.

i seen in the FnT catalog they advertise #3 longspring jaw spread 5 -13/16" and The offset #3 at 6"

i seen in the FnT catalog they advertise #3 longspring jaw spread 5 -13/16" and The offset #3 at 6" [/quote

sorry im talking bout the Sleepy Creek #3 long spring

Yeah, exactly. I have the offset and it measures what the normal jaw is suppose to be. I don't mean to quibble about eighths or sixteenths. I just wish they would be honest about it so when you buy a trap you get what you are expecting. In a game of sixteenths of an inch it matters a lot because you might buy traps that you think will be legal, then you get them and they're not. In my case the traps I purchased were smaller than advertised so I will be fine on coming in under the legal limit of jaw spread, but what it doesn't do for me is give me the maximum area between the jaws for kill area that I was expecting.

Now if you're trying to max out on jaw spread because you are trapping coyotes or cats with the larger paws and you bought the #3 thinking that it would be big enough without going over the legal limit even with mods done to it, you got screwed. Now you would have to buy more traps, the #4's, and you've spent a lot more money than you had to. Plus now if you don't have a use for the #3's you have to try to sell them and take a hit on the price to get rid of them so you are out more money. And so it goes. The consumer takes the brunt of all this misleading in advertising.

All I would ask from the manufacturers is...just be honest with the consumer! Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

Buy the way, its not only Sleepy Creek that does this. I bought a #4 Bridger that has the same issues. Its closer but still is not what is advertised.

I like that one that is 3rd from the left Dale. I had planned something similar for some of my traps.

Does it work OK?

Mike

Where is the famous #00?

Mike

The nail and nut spring swivel works very well, Mike. Just make sure when you are welding, you get good penetration and both the rod and nut both glow bright red the same while welding. Lee Steinmeyers welding tip. If both parts don't glow, it ain't welded. I also beefed up the factory swivels and added welded nail J- hooks.

Doug,
Hope these pictures help answer you questions as to big pans for fox & coyotes.




These are all Sleepy Creek #4 Regular Jaw traps with inside lams, and PIT Pan system and big pans. Inside lams, cause we here in Pa. can't have jaw over 6 1/2" outside spread.

ok grey i see what your talkin bout now

Just figured some might want to know this info before buying. It really is buyer beware.

Thanks Dale. Probably be a challenge to pull off with my Lincoln buzzbox. Lol

Mike

brand new #4 bridger with sleepy creek offset jaws installed and JC Connor's lamination strips. baseplate center swiveled

I don't understand. Bridger doesn't have a #3 dls trap. Is it a Bridger #4?

Anybody use any of these yet?



Sleepy Creek #2 and a Bridger #11 with Wild River Traps expanded pans

Nope, make my own , the 2 looks good although.

These are easy to install and only cost $20 for a dozen.

Looks like a plus.thanks

Think a coon would tear them up ?

Think a coon would tear them up ?

No mikes pans are made stout and thick i have several on 1.5 coils for mink rats and coon and have caught fox in them and they are as straight as when they were put on you can get single or double posts

These pans are thick, no junk. I would think it would take something like a wolf or wolverine to damage them.

Does anyone have pics of the barker mink pans ?

Does anyone have pics of the barker mink pans ?

I always felt that DBLs were way to slow for use on dry ground. And were a real pain when digging trap beds In frozen ground.
There Is a reason why coil spring traps have In most cases phased them out.

I do like them In the water for coon.

The tests that I've seen as far as speed of the trap closing the dls is only milliseconds slower than the coils. Also I would imagine if they were WAY slower than coils there would be many, many trappers complaining about misses and I don't see that.

I have them on some Sleepy Creek #11 double jaws and they work great. I used them at pocket sets and caught lots of rats and coons in them last year.

Sounds good. I'm plan on using some on my SC #2's for fox also.

I always felt that DBLs were way to slow for use on dry ground.----Like grey55 said, just not as much difference as most think.

And were a real pain when digging trap beds In frozen ground.----IMO if you can dig a bed for a coil spring trap, you can dig one for a DLS. I don't go through all the bull crap, some do, to keep their coil spring traps from freezing down.

There Is a reason why coil spring traps have In most cases phased them out.-------But remember what the Old time high number Wolfers used, DLS.

THANK YOU for posting this. I have the Wild River pans on my #11s, I also have a couple dozen #2 SC I hope to use for fox. Guess I need to go ahead and order some more pans.

I'm looking forward to good things happening with these SC #2's. Also have #2 Victor dls looking forward to putting in the ground this year.

I found a few doz #3 blake and lamb in a drum in my shed gonna give 'em a try in a few weeks!!

Have any of you guys replaced the jaws in a vic #4 dbl with sleepy creek jaws?

Yote I went and measured a victor it is 6 3/8
Sleepy creek is 6 1/16
Both inside to inside jaw post measurement
My only concern would be is there enough room at the dog area as sleepy ck has taller jaw than does a victor.
But to answer the question I have not .

I PM'ed jayirvinh about this mod and we discussed putting Sleepy Creek jaws on #4 Vic longs. He said it will work.

Mike

Thanks guys. I'm going to pick up some sleepy jaws this week and play with it. I will take pics.

I have on #3 and #4

Bridger #4 with sleepy #4 jaws. Still have room for lams after dog eye is closed a bit.



Fit wasn't bad and very easy to do. The springs are canted up quite a bit. The lock up is good and the trap sets and beds pretty good. Thoughts?

Vic #4 with sleepy #3 jaws. Room for lams if so desired.



Springs canted a bit but not near as bad as other combos. Lock up is good.

#4 b&l with #4 sleepy jaws. Easy to change but very tight fit against the dog post. Will need dog post and dog mods to work for me. #3 jaws fit and operate much better.



Good lock up. Still some cant.

Over all the vic/b&l #4 with sleepy #3 jaws seems to be the best fit. I really like the Bridger #4 and wish they would offer it with offset jaws. Throw a baseplated on that trap and it would rock.
Jaws are very easy to change in a big vise. Just go slow .

Questions: 1) What is your check time, as not sure why your worried about off set jaws on double long springs?

2) The thing I have been told, is the springs on the Bridgers, are weaker than on the Sleep Creek #4?

Yoteguts, those jaws from sleepy creek coils or longsprings?


NOTE: on the bridge #4 longs, if you want them offset; contact MTP. If you order from them they can do them offset.

I suggest you email minesota trapline products with the subject attention
Rob Caven http://www.minntrapprod.com/Aboutus.asp and ask him to produce bridger long springs with offset jaws. i have in the past and they said they would talk about it.

The jaws are sleepy long spring jaws.
Don't know how the Bridger springs will hold up as this is the first one I've handled.
Not overly worried about offset jaws but I like options.
Next time I order from MTP I'll ask about it jay.

Some #4 Victors with the sleepy creek #4 offset jaws. I prefer the #4 jaws.
It is the law here in Oregon this size trap when set onland has to be offset. that law gives us no choice.

I do like the looks of those better than the #3 jaws.

Those are sharp looking traps Jay!

Mike

they are a few I had on my work bench waiting to have there modifications completed.

My jaws were bothering me. Thought the angle was just to much. Bought some more jaws and they were totally different. They first batch of sleepy jaws were coilspring jaws in a long spring jaw package. No wonder! Called the supplier and they wouldn't make it right. Live and learn. On the plus side the coil spring jaws work fine just a weird spring angle. So Black spot was right. Good eye.

I was abt to say yote those are Sleepy creek coil spring jaws.

Up for JC.

I got a PM the other day asking if Sleep Creek offset jaws would fit on a #3 victor.
I took this picture in 2010 of an #3 Onieda Victor Canada trap with sleepy creek jaws.

I love the pan on this canada.
I also shot a video of the project:
https://youtu.be/NidGFygYvYA

could you please tell me the difference between a Canada trap and a USA trap?

If you could blow up the picture you would see CANADA on the pan. It was manufactured in Canada.
After realizing I would never use this trap for trapping I put the stock jaws back on. It's a wall hanger.

Will Sleepy Creek springs fit Victor traps?

Got an old #3 Vic with cast jaws ( not a 3n ) that has weak springs. Figured I could put it into service with a PIT pan, #3 SC offset jaws, and some new springs...

But after paying for all that I could probably buy a new SC #3 DLS.

Mike

Just put some on a #4 awhile back, the eyes were a little small but a vari bit solved that. They are a little shorter also.

I know this is an old thread but I'm bringing it back to the top. I'm sick as a dog and can't sleep hardly any, been running to the bathroom calling Ralph every ten minutes it seems. Guess i got some kind of virus or bug of some sort, erghhh. Anyway about what you said when it comes to using coil springs versus longs and long springs taking extra time to bed, I just gotta laugh when i hear someone say that because i can kneel down and bed a sleepy creek number 3 double long or victor number 3 double long faster than you can bed the same size coil spring and the double long will be rock solid, I don't have to do hardly any packing around jaws amd all that hoopla like you do with your coils. Only packing of dirt i do with a double long is the final covering of dirt over the trap then I'm off to the next one. If i had my choice between number 3 or 4 coil springs and number 3 or 4 double longs i would pick the double longs every time, why you ask? Because they are EASY to hed, they are easy to put big pans on (no notches to cut), they hold better than any coil spring ever thought about because of leverage and the design of the jaws, what i mean by that is after the curve in the jaw the rest is straight up and down and allows the trap to LOCK onto and not let go of whatever steps on the pan, another reason is they are more functional in freeze thaw conditions, if a coil spring freezes down guess what it's out of commission, if the bottom of the springs on a double long freeze down that trap will still fire if the animals foot hits the pan or busts through the crust of dirt or snow. The only reason I don't use all double longs now is because they cost alot more per dozen than my coils do. But i will have enough double longs to use as my number one trap one day and they'll all have Paws-I-Trip pans, center swiveled baseplates, 2 or 3 feet of twist link chain, a Jc Conner shock spring, Jc Conners new rod swivels, Jc laminations, huge expanded pans to eliminate the need for pan covers and wire screen for larger kill zone, oh yea I'm gunna inside/outside laminate them, probably be all Sleepy Creek number 4s to get the 6&1/2" jaw spread, might even convert them all to dogless traps too even though I don't know how. Anyway that whole idea of long springs being harder to bed is just something someone that didn't like em strted saying or came from people that have never really used them because if they did they would know for a fact that you can solidly bed a long spring trap when you cant get a coil spring bedded solid. I think the number one reason people don't use them is because of cost compared to coil springs. Just my two cents on the subject

Where do you get the oversized pans for Sleepy Creek #4 Double Longsprings?

Just go to local steel yard get them cut to size wanted or use electic box cover plates.

sleepy creek is advertising oversized pans they make called Big Pans. http://mtnrunsply.com/ give them a call

one thing I like about dls is cleaning them at the end of season....it can be a pain to clean dried black mud out of coils...and really don't like the rounded inside of the levers....

Just finishing this build. They were Victor #3s with the old hump frames.

You put that last big pan on upside down.

traps look like you painted them silver?

I think they are probably sand blasted.

ttt

I used double long springs this year, and prefer them over coils in every situation except flat sets in sod pastures. I have been wondering if those of you that like DLS like the #3 or #4 better and why? I have been using mostly #3 victors with step down Pit-Pans and quality chain and swivels as my only modifications. I also have tried a few #4's with the same set up and like them as well. What is your take? Thanks

As grey wrote earlier in this post, sizes vary and what one call a 4 another calls a 3 so your question is hard to answer. We ran vic and b&l 3 and 4s for many, many years. Used them for beaver and in the west they were our go to trap. My brother, who worked 34 years as a state wildlife control officer, always preferred the 3s for all his work. He believed they held better [design] and caught many nuscience beaver by the back foot and dont believe he cared which foot ie he did not set for the front foot.
Hard question to answer.

I believe the size of trap to use will be different when using coilsprings compared to longsprings. If you look at a coilspring trap there is less space between the levers when it is closed compared to the space between the springs of a longspring trap when comparing for example a number 3 coilspring to a number 3 longspring. Therefore I believe you can use a smaller jaw spread when using a longspring trap compared to a coilspring trap.

I think Snares&All, the originator or this thread, said it correctly. These double longsprings are great tools. I know all the rage these days is coilsprings but these traps for so many trappers require modifications to do what they want them to do.

Comparing the two types of traps the coilsprings are suppose to be lighter weight than longsprings. Most of the time this is not the case. Till you get done modifying the coils they end up being heavier than the longsprings.

I think the longsprings have a mechanical advantage over the coilsprings. Now you can make the coilsprings stronger with heavier music wire springs but that is an extra cost over the longsprings. So to say that the longsprings are more expensive is only a truth until you get some time on them. When time comes to replace the springs on the coils the longsprings are still going strong and will not need attention for years and years.

As far as coils being easier, I just don't see it. If, and only if there is any advantage in setting them in the field, they make up for it in maintaining them. I've used both and as far as bedding each is concerned I don't have any more time in a set using longsprings over coils. Sometimes bedding coils can be a bugger and they usually take more material in the bed area, especially in winter time trapping.

There are many topics comparing coils to longsprings. These are just a few I've thought about when deciding to use one or the other. For myself I would rather buy a trap and know that it will do the job I need it to do without me messing around with what the engineers thought was the correct style and strength of their product.

Using the longspring trap takes me back to a simpler time. It makes me take the time and do things right and not worry about getting on down to the next set so I can set more traps. There is something to be said for making good quality sets over more quantity of sets. I got caught up in all the hoopla when I got back into trapping a few years ago. There are more traps and methods now a days than you can shake a stick at. I will be getting back to my trapping roots next season and am looking forward to it.

Grey 55 they both have place on my line but if I want something caught in a iffy maintenance area of lot snow or really wet freeze thaw place dbls come out .
bar none my favorite cat trap is dbls

Well put.

I always thought the # 2 Newhouse would be a great all around trap....might change out chain or add a swivel.

I agree. That is why I'm stocking up on Sleepy Creek #2 double longs. They are the only brand that sells that size trap any more. At least the only ones the supply companies sell.

I've bought some Victor #2's that I will probably use for mink and coon. The only thing I don't care for on the older style traps is the wobbly pan. I see that as an issue when canine trapping. I've found PIT pan kits for the #3 Victor and Blake & Lamb double longsprings but not the #2's.

I love my # 4 Blake and lamb long springs for coyotes. Previous owner laminated them, baseplated and center swiveled them. I messed around with the pans cutting grooves in the notch and the dog to give it some tension. I'm going to put pit pans on them after seeing all the beauties on this thread.

I also have a few 3 and 4 victors that are ancient. Strong springs and no mods. They work great too.

I use 11's and 2's Coon and water trapping. Some are b and l and some victors. The b and l are real strong.

The old Blake and lamb #1's single springs I have are amazing springs! Best Coon trap ever for me except for dog proofs?

I use coils too but see few advantages. Maybe easier to carry more in a pack basket. Cheaper to buy initially. Not as tough as a dbl in my opinion.

I also use jumps for everything too. I really like them. I'm going to put new pans on them too.

Love the doubles, they just hold amd hold! This one is a northwoods #3

I love dbls, they hold tight....anyone have any suggestions on an easy release of an animal that is in the dbls? Like a #4, I wanted to release a red from a dbls it was a pain...so he want home with me...

I think sterling fur sells these. Jiffy longspring setter

You would need a catch n release pole. Two people preferably. Hold animal with pole stand down on spring or break springs by hand pulling both springs back.

Those of you that have taken the chain off of the spring end of the double longsprings and moved it to the center, or close to it, of the base plate area...did you have issues with the chain on the spring? Did it cause swiveling problems or tangle issues? Do you think moving the chain to the center of the base plate had a large advantage or just a slight advantage?

I get the advantage on a more square jaw trap, but not on a round jaw trap.

Grey 55 I like it on the spring they bed nicer I agree its a square jaw issue , and centering up chain I do not think it hurts or helps

I haven't seen a different on chain placement.

I center mine, most of my longs came with crappy twin loop which I swapped out for welded straight or twist link chain anyway, didn't like the spring clevis so center mounted them like most coils come now. Nothing bound up more than twin loop even with swivels and machine chain flows out of the bed much smoother. The springs rarely stayed straight out to each side after a catch, always seems to fold in anyway tight like a coil, so I just started center mounting to the base and seemed to have less issues with first swivel point especially on incidental coon. It also shortened up distance on water traps for me on drowners by moving to center and just a few links of chain to end swivel drowner. If on end of spring I had to allow for length of the spring too plus chain needed deeper water to drown.
Put a stick in the jaws of long and keep the clevis spring attachment, hang the chain up and spin the trap, the stick stays straight out as it spins...Do same with center mounted long...Stick hangs straight down opposite chain as it spins...It's a more direct rotation on swivel point and less stress on legs and feet trust me.
Jim

X2

This is why I am reluctant to center swivel. The ground that I trap mostly right now is rocky and its all I can do to get a trap bed in let a lone bury a longer chain under the trap. I usually go with a shorter chain and side swivel so that I can place the chain in front of the trap in the bed instead of underneath it. The way the chain is attached to the longspring trap from the factory gives me options. I can slide it along the spring on the clevis to conform to whatever bedding situation that I find myself in.

I get what you are saying but don't know if it would work here for me. I will probably try some center swiveled just to experiment and see how it goes.

It actually seems to me that a center swiveled double longspring trap would kind of function like blades of a propeller with the springs catching on everything in site as the trap and animal is swiveling around and around. I trust you guys though as you have been doing it a long time so I will give it a try on some sets.

I think it also depends on what your target is. A coyote especially would probably benefit from center swiveling more than say a coon as they are a larger animal and stand higher off of the ground so the trap would probably not come in contact with the ground duff like a coon would. It is interesting that the number 1.5 trap is usually used for coon more than anything else and most of those traps are side swiveled.

A lot to think about.

Thank you for your replies on threes or fours. Its a personnel preference thing, I was just curious what others thought. I base plated a few traps with a center swivel. My chain set up is only about fourteen inches long, and it made it difficult to reset the trap over my knee after a catch. With the chain at the end of the spring there is plenty of length.

One down side i see to center swivel on a longspring is when using drags an animal could go between to small saplings, get the springs up against the saplings and pull the springs down enough to escape

I'm a longspring man. I'm still using alot of the old #4newhoust an McBride. Also I've been still using the old victors for coyotes. I still use dragssome so It doesn't take much more to bed a longspring for me

I use short chains too. That is a definite advantage to leaving the chain on the spring. I use a setter to reset the center swiveled traps because of the short chains.

The more and animal moves after it get in a trap the more you want your traps center swivel.

Govtrapper...Do you center swivel or do you leave the swivel on the spring?

ttt

Where do you get your pans???

Larry don't post much .
That's an original pan underneath with a modified piece attached to it .

something he built himself?

are you saying you can build some like I posted?

Very nice work!

Hey rednecktrapper, are you going to have a booth at the PA convention?

Got Any pics of the bottom side of that trap rednecktrapper?

Yes, we will be there in Booth 90

I will get a picture later on this evening for you.

Can anyone tell me in inside jawspread of a #4 SC long spring?

Says 6 5/16 on their site .
Don't say inside or out .

Yeah they only give the outside on that trap and I looked all over.I like the base on it vs the #3 3/16 vs 1/8 that #3 seems like it would bend without a baseplate.

The base on the number three and number four are the same unless they have made changes?

Yes you are right I messed up somewhere:/

Inside is 5 and 11/16 inches (just shy of 5.75")

Well that's good to know I can run # 4instead of #3s

Watch out on those sleepy creeks reg jaws or offset
Offsets will be greater than 6 inside on the 4s

Mine was #4 regular jaw that i measured.

I believe the offsets are stamped, so the inside should be still close to 5.75"

I would listen to red on this one he knows his double longs

I think they are advertised as a 6.5 inch spread as well if I'm not mistaken.

A person never knows until there on your bench with a tape measure !

Do not want to hi-jack this post---but what are best release methods for DLS. Have used the board and release pole but looking for something better.

That is a good question as I think it is a bit harder than when using a coil spring???

Mac

I find it easier to get something out of a dbls than I do a coil more to get ahold of

Red mt---alive??

I have to agree with Red on this one. I run lots of long springs in exposed sets for cats. If you get a spring in each hand and compress them and then bend the whole spring down away from the jaws it is easy to release quickly. There is a lot more to hold onto than on a coil spring trap.

And what is the cat doing when you have a spring in each hand and bending it away from the jaws to release the cat.




?//

FYI ---> INSIDE jaw spreads (i have these traps)

#4 sleepy creek long - 5 & 11/16"
#3 sleepy long offset - 5 & 1/4" big
#4 bridger long -----5 & 5/8"
#3 vic long ------ 5"

What year are your Victor #3 double long springs? mine are 5 1/8"

Not sure i have had them bout 15-20 yrs. my tape could be off a smidge

Just wondering because Arkansas you have to have offset or rubber jaws if over 5" on land and I would love to use regular jaw #3's if I could find them

I have released a number of wolves from #4 SC DLS without a hitch. In my experience I can easily squeeze enough with a hand on each spring to release their large paw. You do not have to open the trap all the way like setting it.

Although I am very fond of, and own a dozen, SC 4.5 dls, I have not released a live animal. I have to use a setter to get out a dead one.

With one exception so far, wolves have been easier in to release live than an otter in any foothold.

Ringbill,
How are you holding the live animal so that you can use both hands on the long springs.

Do understand the live release of an otter, I would rather do anything else then release a buck otter. It is my opinion that most animals want to bite you an otters wants to eat you.

A tap on the nose will stun an animal long enough to release them,with the exception being a wolf.

I stand on the catchpole. I go 250 though. Like I said, you don't have to squeeze them far. Wolves are generally pretty docile in a catch pole. Plus you have time on your side. Cats you don't have time and it may take a few tries. Better to try for 15 sec three times than hold a cat down for 30 seconds trying to release it in my experience.

My 120 lb daughter held this one down. She tried squeezing the springs while I held the pole but wasn't strong enough.

Man! Wish I could walk up on that in one of my traps!

Bless her heart, she is out there trying, gotta love that!

You will. They spread further every year. Last year I made it without one in the trap. I have been getting 2-4 a year. Backing off #4 dls and into 3s unless an exposed set to cut down. Also crowding the hold in most dirtholes helps quite a bit. Seems urine posts and hay sets are harder to prevent the big dog from getting in paw first. It is a pleasure and a curse to catch one.

IMO BIG double longs in a hay set on drags in 30 below is a wonderful combination. I may hammer a spot for my center swivel in but most often just bed in some hay and shake/cut a small amount of chaff over to break it up. I most often use a duck carcass of a chicken carcass, but will sometimes cut dice sized chunks of beaver and mix in in.

Sure seems like it lol. Meanest critters I have ever dealt with when they are cornered.

Awesome!

I agree !00% with this. Wolverine and wolves are typically fairly easy to deal with compared to a otter. They are a chainsaw with legs!

I've got 2dz Vic #2s I have been wanting to get converted to dogless for some time, I really like the new Montgumery pans over the Bridger pan design. Has anyone done up any like that?

Dale Torma used to be on here but isn't anymore. He had some great pics of all the different dogless longspring designs he had tried. You may be able to find that thread.

Another spot longsprings excel is atop a beaver dam. Both a dry set for fox and 'cats walking the dam and for the dam crossover for beaver/otter/mink. IMO the springs do a lot to steady spreading out further that a coilspring. Particularly when the dam is more sticks than mud.

where do you get the part that holds the j-hook to the trap spring?

Not sure you can buy them new but you might contact map or fnt see were that gets ya. Post ad o the trap shed people take them off some times. But most people who baseplate longs just cut that piece off. I know I have few somewhere.

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4608492/1

I like the idea of converting PIT pans to dogless, they have the pivot in the right place.

https://sterlingfur.com/swivel-long-spring-victor-trap-parts/

thanks forgot about them!

ttt

Hey look here! I found another dozen old #2 longs for $3 each and am modifying them to hold coyotes, coon, badger, cats, fox, or anything we else we trap here. Center mounted with quick link, a length of twist link chain, two midchain swivels, double stake swivel, booster springs, and filed the dog and pans to a short, crisp throw. Got a few to go through yet but here is first three. Still my favorite all around trap.
Plus I can set longs over my knee easier than stout coils.
Fun to tinker on, too.
Jim

What holds the helpers in place?

Nothing, or you can wrap some wire around them at bend in springs.
That works too. I haven't had them pop out though. Just need to be dipped yet.
Jim

Gotta love the twist chain also!

For the larger springs in order for the helpers to stay put and not fall out when you get a catch, wire like jabne said works, I've done it like that as well on a few vic #2s also. Awesome trap for what it is, they need a lil tinkering like you mentioned.

Nice buy for 3$ ea, now make your $ back and go have some fun!

After you get done modding them, i'll buy them from ya for $5.00 each and pay shipping! They look great!

I am really loving these long springs, I will post some pics of the 1 1/2 longs I am modding with Wild River pans (nothing fancy) and I just picked up some Vic #4s in a trade and will work on getting those ready to supplement my beaver sets this November and next year all my 3's and 4's will get pan mods, either pit or dogless mods. I picked up a Bridger #4 DL and have done the large pan mod with the metal electrical box cover, reworked the chain and swivels and have to do the night latch yet. I want to get me some #2's next year, I could be a big big long spring trap guy I think!

Anyone got pics of bedding a long spring for a coyote set?

I don't have any pictures but this is how I do it- I dig out a bed just big enough for the open jaw area. Then I set the trap, move the springs to the dog side and "hover" the trap over the bed to see where the springs will be. I take the claw of my digging hammer and dig out the two slots for the springs. Anchor the trap, put it in the bed, put my polyfill under the pan, fill in between the jaws with peat moss, cover the springs with dirt and lightly cover the peat moss with dirt.

X2

How does the pan tension work when using for yotes and cats? Every longspring ive set for them ends up being a sprung trap still in the bed, and I know the springs are strong enough to hold

The old wabbly pan victor #3's will fire with too much dirt and then it rains, weight of the sodden dirt gets heavy. (Assuming u night latch or have a short pan notch).

I havent night latched. Their just old stock victor #3s and #2s with new swivels

I think you meant, "last 1/3 of the DOG".

I've got a bunch of #2 victors that were my dad's from the seventies. All in good condition but most have a hair trigger. Some will barely stay set. Filing the pan notch and squaring the dog has helped some, but I can't stand the pan wobble.

.

I forget who posted about the SC jaws fitting B&L traps but thank you. I managed to get an old B&L #4 in working condition again. This has been a great thread to read through.

I love this thread. I wish some of you guys who make YouTube videos would use DLS traps in the video. All you see in videos is coil springs.

I can't seem to give mine up,I've been playing some with MB550 rubber jaw,and the No.2 Bridger rubber jaw,so far so good.I've got quite a pile of longsprings in No.3 SC's modified,3n's,3modified victors,No.3 +4 Newhouses,and then I went and bought 30 No.3 B+L longsprings that need some mods before I put them in the field.If a guy was working in heavy clay or soil types I don't think I'd touch a LS,but in our sandy soil up here they're perfect.

Ttt. I love this thread! Let's keep it alive!
Anyone have videos of dls in use that they can post?

Not vids, but here's some pics

Nice catches

That's one muddy cat!
I'm on T-Man everyday and this is the one thread that I always go back to, to get me itching to go set steel. I reread every post on this thread again today. I'm ready for the season to start!

Yeah,I've been looking at my collection with the intention of getting them season ready.Picked up some more No.3 and No.4 Newhouses the last few years but just hung them up in the shed;this year I'll be putting some chain and drags on them to get them field ready.Need to push myself,its kind of hard to think trapping when its in the high 80's and 90's outside.But I've been here before,and before you know it the leaves are changing and that smell is in the air.

I hear yuh!!!
Gotta couple #3 webley dogless from MINK I LOVE gonna try this season.
Notice the obling spring eyes

I got mine out the other day to take pictures of them. Ill be selling them. They were out in the old barn and the roof collapsed last winter. I got to old to trap i'm 68 but I don't have the energy for it no more, or the back hips knees.... Oh I lived it while I was young. I enjoy this thread!

That top picture looks like No.4's.There was a time I wouldn't own a Victor No.4 longspring,I tried them for beaver and hated them,used them for'cats and they were all right,and coyotes?Forget it.Then some years back I was looking at The Trap Shed and a guy had a bunch of modified Sleepy Creek No.3 longsprings and I bought them.That got me to thinking.Watching the Trap Shed I found a guy selling a couple dozen stock Victor No.4's and bought them,and had a friend offset them,base plate and laminated the jaws.I added PIT pans and OMG what a trap!What a difference!I love the way it grabs those coyote paws and holds them comfortably.If I was in country with a heavy mix of 'coon and/or fox I'd probably go with something else.But as a coyote exclusive it has done a very good job for me.As happy as I was with it I did one more mod to a dozen,I put electrical box covers on the PIT pans,that cover about fills the entire space between the jaws.Some don't like pans that large,I love'em.

By the way,Blak Spot,Webley had an interesting concept with the dogless longsprings.

Here's a Blake and Lamb 44 with an Oberto dogless pan. It works great.

Thanks for sharing Larry. Not but a few that will recognized the name "Oberto".

Mac

Longs sure are easier to set than stout-springed coils, in my opinion. As I get older I can still set the coils but I can see benefits of switching to longs as I get older.
Jim

WHERE did/do u find the STEEL SCREEN that u use for pan covers thanks i know this is an old post

i use wax paper

wax paper or generic coffee filters work just fine.

I know O'Gorman sells it,I'm sure others do too.

O'Gorman enterprises.

Just noticed that "snares&all" started this thread and hasn't been back on in 8 yrs.

Thought I'd throw this back up: top to bottom -#4 sleepy - #3 sleepy - #4 bridger - #3 victor

Added 2 5/8's Paws-I-trip dogs and 3/16×1/4 laminations to a dozen Sleepy Creek 4 1/2's. I think they turned out great.

Very nice flipper 56 good year also

Nice work! Great welds.

do they make pit pans for #2 victor long springs? or will the #3 long spring pit pans work? Thanks

That is some nice looking gear Flipper and thanks for the pic Blak Spot.

Do longs seem inherently "weak" compared to their coilspring cousins? How can one tell if they're weak, or if they're performing like they should be?

Has anyone ever seen a dbl like this? B&L double jaw post pan.First for me. Strong as all get out.

Rob is it possible that someone put Triumph double jaws in that trap?

I wondered that as well Mike. I done some checking with Nancy and she couldn’t find any info on it. If they did they done a fine job. Awesome little trap.

I have just read this entire post for the second time. Great info.

Happiness is opening a box of stout springed victor #3s you just acquired from a fellow t-man forum member...

this is a great thread!

Longs hold. #4 bridger offset

looks good!

They work.

Another they work

I like that set up. shiny traps catch cats

Fiske, that a modified #4 bridger?

Boy did he tear that set up

Yes it is

i love the old school long springs blake and lamb 3 and 4s will hold most anything and the 44 was an awesome trap. i got all of them plus the duke number 5 and use them when a good 330 set is not there also for trap smart beaver

Be cool to see pics of catches the the wyoming big iron

I've been saying this for the longest lol. Would really like to find someone who could make those style springs for regular long springs as replacements

Wolf, i was thinkin the springs from the old MB coni that was 160 size would work. They had smaller spring eyes.

I’ve got some #3 B&L DLS that I modified with the plan of using for coyotes.

In my travels, I always find coyote pee posts out on the beaver flow ages that I trap. Does anyone have a good system for bedding a long spring right on top of the ice?

Nice one! That one sure attempted to chew through every tree.

Reading through all the pages of this thread, I was really surprised to not see people listing all the reasons they hated longs! A few years ago I bought some new Bridger #3 DLS when either F&T or PCS had them on sale. I wish I knew someone I hated bad enough to give them those traps. In fairness, I used victors and Newhouse 2’s as a kid and never had trouble with them, and I have some Victor 4’s that set nice as well, so I can’t say I hate ALL longs, but I sure despise those Bridgers 3’s!

Maybe you’re right. Maybe they’re 4’s. I just dug one out to look at it to see if it was marked. Couldn’t find that it was but they had been painted. Tried to set it to measure the jaw spread and very quickly reaffirmed why I hated them so much

You can send them to me

Fiske,
I don’t hate you, but you’re certainly more than welcome to them. Let me see how many of them I still have. Thankfully I only bought six to try.

New project i am working on

very interesting

Bridger #4dls with #3 bridger dogless pan

I like that.

Looks good base plated on bottom? I see the bolts

Fiske, any mods to get the pans to work?

I used the bracket for a pit pan, drilled a hole through cross frame so you can adjust pan level same way a bridger dogless is done

Electrical covers for me. Who cares if you get a toe catch a catch is a catch..

Guess I forgot to post a pic on this thread of the completed sleepy creek 4 1/2 DLS's after the lams, pit pans and dogs were installed. Very happy with the way they turned out.

I like that! I really need to night latch my 4 1/2 SC.

Nice!!

One more of the completed Sleepy Creek offset 4 1/2 DLS project. Did a dozen and they all look just a sexy! Makes you feel like Jeramia Johnson when you are standing in the water holding one with a big beaver in it.😎

What is the inside measurement of the 41/2 sleepy creek?

7 1/2

Nice job

Can anyone talk about a no 11 offset double jaw for a coyote trap? I am curious if it’s enough trap . I use a few mb450 and seem to hold them fine. I use the smaller traps cause they seem to do well on off target such as coon and fox well. Like I said I’ve not really noticed a issue with the yotes in 450 so I’m kinda in the mind set that I don’t need a 2 or larger. With all that said, I’m not a yote master either. Thanks and any info is appreciated.

A no.11 double jaw was intended for mink,'rat and coon,skunks,possum,etc.For coyotes,forget it

Like Buck said not enough

like i said before other than newhouse longs the blake and lamb long springs are aweome very very strong springs and the number 44 is still my go to long spring for beaver trapping they are very hard to find now and are expensive so i have also went with the number 5 duke and that too is a great trap have had great luck with them and they are also very very strong springs and have a great pan banchee

I just got a bunch of #2 longs do they work good for coyote traps

They will work for coyote.

Ttt

Haha can it hold a coyote, yes. Is it ideal, no. My buddy and I modified one with lams, #2 chain, and an inline shock. We did it more as a joke than anything in mocking small trap users. Didn’t think it would actually work. Caught a coyote and a bobcat with it. Held them both great. Took a lot of work to convert it to something that I could use out of the box. Now we both mainly use the 450. Easier to bed, and has a good size pan. Haha now we are small trap users haha. But we also don’t have to worry about snow or frozen ground.

What trap is that Mike?

Hey flipper 56 those trap mods look sweet. I have some reg jaw sleepy creek 4 1/2s I wanted to mod for coyote, but did you say you were using them for beaver? I was always under the impression you wanted reg jaw for beaver. do they work as well?

It is a Sleepy Creek 4.5.

Those 4.5 are a great trap!

The 4.5’s are a bit weak in the shorts when it comes to trapping wolves in the winter time. They just can’t seem to get through a crust or the heavy wet snow that is so common to my region. I now run Koro’s and #9’s in my sets that won’t see ocean water. The 4.5’s do shine in the sets below the tide line.
One tool doesn’t work for 100% of my applications here.

Buck I have a question … I hear lots of people worried about toe catches and “centering the foot in the jaws” with a small pan. If you have sufficient pan tension and part of the foot is on the jaws doesn’t the coyote just stand on the jaw and not spring the trap if it’s not centered even with a big pan? Seems like with a big electrical box pan I you could pack around the outside of the jaws, put a pan cover over the whole thing and it would work great. With a regular pan I defiantly have trouble packing dirt between the jaw and the pan.

Correct.Whether its a big pan or small,he's got to put enough pressure on it to fire it.I like the whole inside of the spread to be a kill area.In my area and with our coyotes you might only have one shot at a coyote when he comes thru,I don't think much of the "if I miss him today Ill get him later" theory.In other areas of the country that may not be a concern .I never noticed my ratio of toe catches going up using a large pan but if I do grab them by the toes I still have them.Using small pans is no guarantee you still won't get toe catches,that can happen no matter what size the pan.

Thanks for the response. I’d like to be scientific in my experimentation but I don’t have enough encounters to have a sample size so I better rely on more experienced trappers

For all you dls guys

This is an intertesting picture. Such a tight fit

Just found this thread. Those of you thinking of using #2 for coon are in for a disapointment. They chew out. Been trapping for ni on to 40 years and stopped using 2s for coon the 2nd year.
just

I love this thread. I got interested in big pans and they are a natural with DLS. So I ordered up pit pans, bought some used victors and Newhouse 3,s and 4,s and I’m on an experimentation role!

But here’s my question - I lucked into a dozen #3’s mostly B&L that are laminated, have very consistent Miles Triggers, and are center swiveled, a legal requirement in MT. However, some have twist link chain. I would certainly replace it with machine chain given the option, but is it really a big deal? Do I need to? My target is cats and coyotes. Incidentally for 40 year old traps minimum, dang are they strong.

I like machine chain, to make it simple I use #5 us made on all traps, I know it's over kill on bobcat traps but I have one size and use it on wolf traps to cat and coyote traps

A wolf would make short work of twist link, but anyone ever see a coyote tear it up?

Twin loop is what is shown I would'nt trust that with coyotes they can bite on the chain and crush bend and open up twin loop chain,I would replace that twin loop with #3 machine American made chain if your using them on drag traps I would use 10 ' of #5 chain.

I agree

ttt

x2

I’m not sure but I have some #3 PIT pans in the shop and a #2 hanging up, I’ll put them together and see if it looks viable.

I believe the frame clip on the #3 PIT kit will be too large for the frame of the #2. Looking on F&T's website there is no kit that I could see for the smaller diameter frames on the smaller traps. They are all for the larger traps, at least what they stock anyway. I don't know if a smaller diameter clip/kit is made by PIT or not.

Give Ed a call he will fix you up.

Thanks

How many of you use long springs for canine trapping?

I will do more in the future. I believe the longsprings will keep working better than coils in freeze thaw conditions with less expense.

All I use

I don't know about anybody else but when I get my hands on a double longspring I just get more excited than when handling a coilspring. I guess its all the history behind them and the trapping I did in my youth with them. Just makes me smile every time.

Definitely!

I’ve recently gotten the bug and definitely like handling the double longspring traps more than the coil spring traps.

Just finished modifying 4 Bridger #4’s for cat trapping. Welded a cover plate to the pans and offset them. I painted 2 of the pans and used sawdust for grit and wired a piece of shingle to the other. I’ve got just enough of the season left to try them out. I can’t wait!

That trap looks great. I've got some #4 Bridgers on the way myself. Can't wait to get my hands on them. Even though my season is about over and I didn't trap much this season because of family obligations, I will be getting more than a few double longs ready for next season.

Anybody ever convert the Sleepy Creek 1 1/2 long spring to a #2? The jaws are asymmetrical which seems like it may cause a problem.

Yes they will.

Best long spring coon trap ever is the old Blake and Lamb #1 with the rounded spring. Never pass them up if you see them. I believe it was in a Jim Helfrich book about coon trapping. Boy was he right on. Those little devils hold like a vise. They’re light, easy to use, and too small to chew out.. I like 11’s too but they are heavier, more expensive, and take up more space.

Not sure what you mean by a rounded spring. Anyone have any pics of one? How do the new #1 longsprings compare?

Where the spring is bent it is more rounded vs. more pointed. I don’t know how to post pics. I’ll look for a link.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qIoAAOSwRaFh7gds/s-l1600.jpg

This is one with a rounded spring. See how round the bend is. Plus the spring is very short and compact.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Te4AAOSwKX9h8PzC/s-l1600.jpg

This is a more pointed spring and it’s quite a bit longer.

Both good traps, but the short rounded spring is unusually strong.

You can add a lighting helper spring in any other longspring and beef it up too, but that is an extra expense and weight.

Victor also made a shorter spring long #1. It wasn’t as rounded, but is was better than the longer version I believe. Not as strong as the Blake and Lamb. I think the short victor springs stayed stronger than the longer victor springs though. Just anecdotal evidence rom my experience though.

Hope the links work.

Ok bhugo. That explains it perfectly. Thanks.

I posted these before, but thought I'd add them here

I was looking for a little more speed so I used an angle grinder with a 1/16" wheel and then a 1/8" wheel to take some weight off.


I added heavy s/s screen to finish them off.
The more I use them the more I like them

Sexy looking trap!

Those do look good.


This afternoon was the first time I ever set any dls and I think that's all I'm going to use from now on for bobcats. No messing around bedding them, they're rock solid as soon as you set them down. I only bought four because I wasn't sure if I would like them, guess I'll be ordering some more.

Pretty sure that's a coil spring!

Sometimes if the springs seem weak you can hammer (firm, but light) a pipe into the convex part of the spring to expand that "point" just a touch to make it more round. This can improve the tension, just have to be careful...and you may be referencing something totally different.

Whoops, wrong pic, lol

Ever get that PIT#3 on that #2?

#4, or #5?

I do every year. Takes more waxed or dry dirt but they work great in frozen conditions. Prefer #3 size

Victor doesn't make a No.5,so that would be a 4

#3 Blake and Lambs

Those B&L are some strong LS I have a few and use them a little,for bobcat and coyote.

The #3 will fit on a #2 but you have to use the#2 weld on bracket and move it towards the dog until the pan is centered. You will also have to shorten the dog. The oversized pans will need a little taken off at the spring eyes. They are a little close. Regular pit pans will work fine.

I'm putting#2dls pit pan on a #4dls. I think it will make it a better beaver trap.

Those are some tough traps.

I put an oversized#3 pan on a #2

The pan doesn't need cut at the spring eyes. But the dog is short. Lol
I also put a #2 pit pan on a #4

Cutting the bracket and a longer dog would center it though

#4 an old one, like new though.

It’s funny that people have mentioned that they want to watch videos with people using long springs and older traps in the field. My buddy and I are starting a YouTube channel this coming season and will have a section where we strictly use long spring and jumps. We just purchased an entire trapping collection from an estate, and WOW!!! Almost 650 traps of various sizes in long spring, jump, double under B&L’s, some old Victor coils, stop loss…. All kinds of work to do with mods, but can’t wait to get them holding fur!

Should be fun.

This was the first beaver we caught in a #4 Victor that we got with that pile of old traps. 41 pound female, the bag on the drowner was too light and she pulled it up to the bank, then pulled the stake out… the one thing she didn’t pull was her two toes out of that DLS. I’m sold!!! We will be doing mods on these, and they will become a staple in our trapping arsenal!!!

I love this thread and thought I ought to post a little to revive it. I have many many coilspring traps and I use fewer every year.

duke #5

Red in #11

Could you show a picture of a #5 dbl set in the water. I'm figuring it is set (looking from land) spring,trap,spring, so the bever walks between the jaws like a coilspring? \O/

last pic is disqualified! I see a cs involved

im 13 and just kinda learning how to trap and I cant set coilsprings by hand and DBLs seem interesting to me cause I like longsprings for water trapping, anybody have any recommendations for brands to get or does anybody have any for sale?

Victor are the most common to find used, and there is nothing wrong with them. I prefer Blake and Lamb over most of the others myself. Newhouse are of course top of the line, but they are not a budget priced trap, and due to their design they are hard to set by hand.

alright thanks

Well, figured I may as well contribute to this thread! Picked up 3 old #4 victor dbls last summer at our state rendezvous, nodded them a bit, and managed to fill my pa cat tag with one this past season! Not gonna lie, I really enjoyed using them for something different and the novelty of it! Picked up a few #3 jumps to try on predators this season!

Lynx caught in a No.4 Bridger double long spring

4 sc and 5 long