My theory on Minnesota moose coming possible wipe

Minnesota moose have declined from 16,000 to between 3,000 and 3,500. They say they are stable at that number but here’s the thing. Our wolves are small compared to the western wolves and avoid attacking full grown moose. Why ? Because they get killed by them. A friend of mine told about his friend who found a wolf killed cow moose and said the battlefield was huge but what stunned him was the 8 dead wolves killed by that cow. Now moose can live up to 15 years so if those remaining 3,000 moose all full grown are staying stable because of the difficulty wolves have killing them what happens when they age out and die. I predict a soon coming drastic fall from that 3,000 some number. The so called experts who are idiots in my opinion state global warming and brain worm and everything but wolves as reason for decline. Well there are healthy moose populations in numerous states far warmer than Minnesota so that’s just stupid and brain worm was present in the 70’s when I lived near Viking Minnesota and moose were everywhere. They would find one dead from brainworm from time to time but they stayed healthy for the most part. There were way more deer there then than now. The calves are being slaughtered every year mostly by wolves. Wolves are the sole reason Minnesota moose are disappearing period and anyone with a non liberal brain that lives in this wolf infested country knows it and it’s a tragedy.

I would find it VERY difficult to believe that a lone cow killed 8 wolves at one shot.

Originally Posted by 160user

I would find it VERY difficult to believe that a lone cow killed 8 wolves at one shot.

My thoughts also, moose decline in my opinion is a result of multiple scenarios, including, ticks, wolves and bears.
Numbers are so low,( as they say), so much that the Rez feels now they should be allowed more harvest.

Up until the Early ninety's we had a moose infestation and then started seeing more and more moose spinning in circles and dieing from what they called brain worm . I think it might have been anaplasmosis from ticks . But irregardless still have about same wolt density now as did back then . I don't feel the decline in moose in my area had anything to do with wolves

someone should pull up that picture of a RCMP riding a moose
maybe he was called into active duty down there

Anyone claiming 8 wolves killed by a moose has got me not engaging in anything more in that topic.

" I Heard" statement always puts me on guard, no matter what topic.

Anaplasmosis?,..my wife has had that and about any other recognizable tick diseases.
The tick question in regards to moose populations is its sheer numbers parazetic.
Recent DNR reports confirmed depredation as the leading cause of Moose decline.

Think what you want. The DNR made the statement that wolves are wary of adult moose because of the danger they pose. Call the guy a liar maybe he is but a moose can kill a wolf in a heart beat and it’s been videotaped. Wolves are the reason for the decline as was proven In their calf collaring studies. And deer are disappearing and it’s time people wake up to the truth. My neighbor opened the door and let dog out and wolves killed it right in front of the house.a rancher south of me lost 30 some calves in one joy killing and got no where near proper reimbursement. I fed my family venison my whole life but no more. All I can say is wake up. Come live with wolves if you think they are so great. Sorry if I’m a bit ornery but I’ve had it and this sentiment is growing fast.

Listen to A world with wolves / Justin Web / gritty bowmen episode 778. Justin will be at the National trappers convention. This podcast is about Idaho wolves. It’s an eye opener. The first half is enough to get the story and you can speed past the opener

Um,..I think we are one the same page?

Not disagreeing on wolf predation . But where I live which is not far from Viking we went from to many moose to none in a few short years . More than just wolves that wiped out the moose population in the early nineties . Agree that wolves need to be managed but I'm tired of hearing the constant whining about wolves from deer hunters that won't take the time and drive around in the early morning to kill a few coyotes or let someone bear hunt or trap coyotes and bobcat's on there precious deer hunting property

The States and Feds "surveying" moose in February and March when the snowpack is the greatest and chasing them with aircraft doesn't help. The cows are heavy with calves at this time and he stress of running them cause some to abort the calf. Yes, I agree that wolves kill moose but I think there are many other factors in this equation. Winter browse, cover and large tracts of land also play into it.

I live closer to Viking than DHH, when we lost our moose in the mid to late 90s here on the edge of the valley there were few wolves compared to now. Not even close. Same with Viking, I trapped up and down that ridge country in those years and lived what happened. To blame the loss of moose here in Ag country to wolves during those years is disingenuous.

Oakey, we live with wolves everyday. DHH is over run with them, we are too pretty much. There is/was a pack of seven cruising our hunting land this fall.

Bears kill a lot of wolf calves and fawns every year as well.

I was wrong just talked to the guy it was 7 dead wolves. Speaking of Viking Minnesota that’s were I started bow hunting in 1971. It was paradise back then Huge bucks seen one a booner at 5 yards but I never connected with any of them but enjoyed every minute of it. Huge bull moose ripping up willows and sometimes scarring the crap out of you running right past you. I caught my first 2 red fox in 71 on the same day after checking traps for 14 days with nothing. I believe I got $12 each and then the fur boom took with each year rapidly increasing. Yes those were exciting days to be young.

Deer season in MN was canceled in 1971.

Thankfully we have the memories of days gone by . Sadly I don't think we'll get back to the numbers of wildlife we grew up with

Of course not Dean, we have lost a tremendous amount of habitat and loosing more every day.

Thank goodness for the deer hunters or there wouldn't be a tree left around home.

Think of how many ducks and muskrats there were pre government dredging

You guys make good points from personal observations about moose decline there from other causes than predators. The same can’t be said for the demise of our deer. We always had coyotes and bears and deer were abundant and over populated here in Northern Wisconsin with all the doe tags you wanted for $2 each. Part of this was because the DNR was way late in increasing doe tags But when the wolves showed up and exploded all that changed and changed fast. A pair denned 2 miles behind my house and by the third year are hunting was all but gone. The game manager here said if your hunting area is where they den you’re pretty much screwed. We had 3 different packs within 6 miles as the crows fly all verified by collars As the deer thinned the wolves territories enlarged. North of Two Harbors Mn. It has become a deer desert Hunters stories in Duluth news tribune are just depressing. Kids quitting hunting after not seen a deer for 3 years and in areas that were once a deer paradise. I’m 69 now and will never see good hunting here again in my life. Even if they remove the absolutely insane endangered status and begin management it’s to late seniors.

It's a travesty what happened to the deer in the forested areas. I trapped beaver, marten and hunted partridge hard for three months in different forested areas of this state this year and see more deer around here in one day than I did all that time. Deer camps are becoming abandoned and a lot of family heritage lost.

Agreed

100% agree

Ironically the first modern moose season that was held in MN was 1971.

I wonder why there wasn't one before that?

Not sure why not before 1971. that I’ve read books about Alaska big game populations exploding after the wolves had wiped them out and then starved or moved after which the game came bounding back. The book The Alaska Wolf man Jack Glazer is a great read and explains a lot about the teeter totter effect when man dosnt properly manage wildlife.

My mistake, it was 1972 when I first bow hunted. Just looked at old newspaper I saved from the Warren Sheaf. My youngest brother age 13 shot a nice buck his first 45 minutes of bow hunting with an recurve he paid $5 for. and it was big story in the paper. Bow hunting was rare then and when at the newspaper with the buck a guy stopped and said where the deer come from and we told him Peter shot it and he said it’s not deer season !!! We had just moved to Warren the January before and he thought we were nuts. Then we told him no! Not with a rifle with a bow. It was 7 years later Before I got my first bow kill

I was still in diapers in 1971 but my guess is there wasn't enough moose for a season before then.

An old boy who has now passed said when he moved here from ND after the dust bowl days said there were few to no moose when he arrived and eventually they became a nuisance. I'm only speaking of the edge of the red river valley.

If you have even 3000 moose and each one is able to kill 8 wolves, you won’t have a problem anymore.

I read an article about moose and wolves on Isle Royale Michigan.
Seems there were too many moose , so they brought in wolves to thin them out.
Well it worked for a long time, except there wasn't new wolves to breed with in the packs.
Interbreeding caused the wolves to die out.
There were only 2 wolves left as I remember. The moose became over populated again.
My question is why wolves? There was a reason the early settlers killed off the wolves.
JMHO Why wolves, when each state could make millions if not billions in revenue off hunting licenses, and processing, and places for hunters to stay, along with food being bought.
Some bleeding hearts decided that wolves are great for the environment , and got other bleeding hearts to believe the same.
The same type of people that believed coyotes were cute and needed a place to live too.
Funny the country folks soon learned that their pets were now gone.
City people never noticed , and have no idea what happens outside their concrete world.
Yet they support more wolves , more laws on hunting and trapping.
It's the same with most things today. They have no idea about anything but their tiny little world!

In a recent MN study 7 out of 10 moose calves born died to predation. I believe it acknowledged 70 % of that predation was wolves .

I have found 2 Moose kill sites where the moose was drug down on the Lake County road. 50’ circle of blood & bones. Not a dead wolf to be seen !

Not managing the Wolf population is the largest contributor to the decline of the once healthy MN moose population in NE MN.

Family owns 80 acres up north and when trapping up there twice in a half a dozen years had a wolf come and grab a beaver carcass in broad daylight. Also the deer are pretty much gone in our area.

Any way you look at the MN DNR will say you are wrong.

So True

I can attest to the fact that there were plenty of moose in the Thief Lake/Agassiz area well before 1971 as I deer hunted and duck/goose hunted up there since the late 1950's. Some friends and I bought property up there and built a camp in 1971 and moose were plentiful up to and well beyond that time. I recall seeing 10 in one day while deer hunting. The deer pop[ulations during that time were also high up there. I believe multiple factors contributed to the decline up there even though the wolf population has increased. Now it is rare to even see a moose track. I no longer hunt up there.

Deer season in MN was canceled in 1971


Rifle deer was closed in 1971. Archery deer was open.

Interesting subject. Having come off another snow related huge decline in our moose population, I wonder if the above average snow in the 70’s may have also contributed to the decline?

Dirt, we had a lot of moose into the 90s maybe even early 2000s here in western MN. I don' remember the exact year when we started to loose them here. I do remember it was nothing to drive around in he evening and see a few to several, now I see one about every 3 or 4 years around home. I saw two this year in the forest north of me. Fall of 23 there was tracks of one on a property by home I hunt deer on.

I'm only commenting about the area I live, one would have a hard time convincing me that wolves were to blame here for our complete loss of wolves. We just didn't have that many IMHO, yes there were some but exponentially more now.

I would wager that the wolves are making it very difficult for them and deer to come back.

There was a write up in a turn of the century hunting magazine of moose hunting getting off the train around Caribou Minn 1910??? that's the one that passes by trapper les yard later
and they were still shooting woodland caribou there at the time

Bush changes over time and favours different species at different times in its succession..

Every wildlife management organization in the US talks about habitat ,carrying capacity, predators etc But the habitat is what controls wildlife And when it comes to habitat even if you do nothing to manage it . Time will cause it to change AND that helps certain wildlife and hinders others