WI 2024 Spring hearing resolution

I submitted the resolution today , this is how I worded it if anyone else wants to submit it for their county.




Extending Raccoon and Coyote seasons to have better effect for nesting game birds and nuisance management.


studies are showing that late winter and early spring removal of nest raiding predators benefits nesting birds. Fur prices are at or near record lows , there is little incentive to harvest raccoon at these prices and they are a significant nest predator. Coyote Hunting season is already open year round state wide. Making Raccoon hunting season open year round to match as well as extending trapping of Raccoon and Coyote from Feb 15th till March 31 on all lands would provide tools to help maintain habitat as well as remove agricultural nuisance raccoons and coyote. as well as allowing landowners to designate a licensed trapper to control nuisance wildlife species on their lands during the closed season. under current law if I do not live at my cousins farm I can not hunt or trap raccoon when they become a nuisance out of season. The standard for off farm/property help to assist is set with WI 29.337-2 that land owners may allow any individual they give permission to use box traps to take nuisance animals from their land at any time , allowing licensed trappers to use the same traps the landowner is already authorized to use to take the same species of nuisance animals simply extends the ability of off farm family and friends to assist.



Do you support extending the raccoon hunting season to year round to match coyote as well as extending trapping of raccoon and coyote to March 31st of each year and allow land owners to designate a licensed trapper to trap nuisance wildlife using the same traps the landowner may use already?


https://deltawaterfowl.org/predator-management/

https://www.nwtf.org/content-hub/research-examines-overlap-between-predation-and-nesting-habitat

Do you really think that trappers or hunters are going to go out and kill coon when there Is no monetary value In doing so.

Sorry but I don't see this going anywhere.

do you think it should be illegal to do so?

whether they go out or not to trap it shouldn't be illegal for me to go help out a cousin on the farm.

it can't go anywhere until it stops being Illegal

if you get deer , duck , goose hunting rights for helping trap a farm but the issue is always out of season , there is some monetary value in trapping the issues they have when they have them , what's a lease on 600 acres going for these days?

coyote is open year round because it was put forth as an issue and why make it illegal to deal with a year round issue half the year.

I kill as many as I can and they are worth less than $0 (if I tried to sell one I would be losing money on the time spent dealing with it, even if selling skin on carcasses)

Same with everyone else down here

So yes, I do think people will kill them.
You are also mistaken about the monetary value, repair of feeders and waste of feed by coons is a big cost. I may not get $5 for a coon but I saved a considerable amount by preventing loss

I'm with you Pete.

Get it passed in one county. In the past there have been "shot gun" approaches to passing and forwarding resolutions and the WCC and DNR frown on those and it will make it much less likely to move through the committees.
I don't know how many times it will need to pass by a certain majority etc, but if you are successful just be aware that you maybe investing in several years to complete this.

Bryce

thanks , for the advice

makes me wonder how long it took to get year round coyote season passed.

Didn't it take about seven years to revert back to zones for muskrat and mink? It will be awhile.

We don't have those problems In WI.

Pete how many coon did you trap during the season?

I'm not sure I support extending the season...or oppose it.

But, I will give you credit for putting in the effort to put the question out there. Most guys just want to complain on the internet and do nothing.

baiting for deer is illegal in 58 of the 72 counties, so it isn't a problem, most baiting I see are guys just throwing bait on the ground.

I would never tell you not to pursue something that you are passionate about. I wonder if you are trying to fix something that may not be broken? Here is the current State statute on the topic.

29.337  Hunting and trapping by landowners and occupants.
(1)  The owner or occupant of any land, and any member of his or her family, may hunt or trap beaver, coyotes, foxes, raccoons, woodchucks, rabbits, and squirrels on the land without a license issued under this chapter or ch. 169 at any time, except as follows:
(a) An owner or occupant may not hunt any of these wild animals during the period of 24 hours before the time for commencement of the deer hunting season in any area where an open season for hunting deer with firearms is established.
(b) Such persons may not hunt coyotes during an open season for hunting deer with firearms in an area that is closed by the department by rule to coyote hunting.
(2) The owner or occupant of any land, any member of the owner or occupant's family, and any individual with the owner or occupant's consent may take beaver, rabbits, raccoons, woodchucks, and squirrels on the land at any time by means of live trapping with box traps in areas where the discharge of a firearm is illegal.
History: 1979 c. 142; 1987 a. 27; 1993 a. 246; 1997 a. 27; 1997 a. 248 ss. 433 to 436; Stats. 1997 s. 29.337; 2001 a. 56, 105; 2017 a. 64.
Cross-reference: See also ch. NR 12 and ss. NR 10.13 and 10.145, Wis. adm. code.

Could you possibly just ask for the addition of "Land owners Agent" to line (1) of the existing statute?

just some in box traps last summer and fall.
haven't seen one on the farm all winter was out checking den trees Sunday and nothing at the farm for sign. which sounds great as far as the farm is concerned.
What I keep seeing that nothing while season is open at the farm and come April those den trees are full.

they are coming in close to a mile across plowed fields from the hills and creek when ready to drop kits

Could you possibly just ask for the addition of "Land owners Agent" to line (1) of the existing statute?

yes I could but that is state statute and would require legislation as I read it
an open season year round is within the DNRs power to make without legislation and should coon jum to 20 dollars again they could then adjust as needed.
if it gets legislated then it takes legislation to undo.
taking the spirit of the law that anyone can use a box trap the DNR could also just allow licensed trappers to use other means of trapping. by writing it out of the prohibitions in the regs.

face it most people while the won't admit it publicly are already going and helping at the farm or relatives chicken coop to get it done and the DNR probably doesn't even care.


did I wrap all my requests up in one question , Yes

do I think it should be illegal to shoot a raccoon between Feb 15th and Oct 14th no.

To get any movement on any resolution you will need the resolution to be submitted in multiple counties. The resolution will need to be rewritten in the author's own words to present similar ideas. The DNR frowns on any shotgun resolution across counties as Bryce altitudes to. Given multiple approved resolutions from counties, the resolution will be written to represent the conscience of all county versions before moving forward.

(2) The owner or occupant of any land, any member of the owner or occupant's family, and any individual with the owner or occupant's consent may take beaver, rabbits, raccoons, woodchucks, and squirrels on the land at any time by means of live trapping with box traps in areas where the discharge of a firearm is illegal.

Doesn't this cover the problem you have with trapping coon out of season on family land or anybodys land.

that wording doesn't say it is OK to shoot them or use any trap besides a box trap , it almost gets there but then doesn't make it clear that with consent shooting in an area where it is legal to shoot . is allowed. or that any trap besides a box trap is permissible.

it is like they had a thought and stopped half way through while thinking of another thought about when you can't shoot.

I actually wrote the resolution to move raccoon season to February 15 several years ago. The wdnr grabbed ahold of that one and pushed it through in a couple years. I was also involved in the muskrat extension that took many years and edits to get through. Our original offer was to extend the muskrat season to March 31 statewide. It met resistance and landed where it is todAy. A huge improvement over March 3 imo.

You have a legitimate argument And have my support, not enough to get involved tho. I believe under the circumstances it will move through with relative ease. I don’t believe many folks will participate but that really doesn’t matter.

Good luck.

What am I missing here? Nuisance wildlife guidelines already allow year-round hunting and trapping by a landowner or an agent of the landowner for coyote, beaver, fox, RACCOON, woodchuck, rabbit and squirrel. The only trap size/type requirements apply to beaver trapping, not allowing steel jawed traps with a jaw spread less than 5 1/2" outside of the open mink/muskrat season.

Or are you more focused on year-round raccoon hunting on public land? Good luck, but I don't think that dog will hunt, so to speak. But, there's a bill going through the legislative process right now to extend the hound dog training season considerably, so who knows. Maybe get the bear hunter's association behind it if you want it to gain momentum.

Ok I just found while searching more on nuisance management

https://p.widencdn.net/d9vt6g/nuswlguide

this does make it a mute point on anything where you are the agent of the land owner , thank you WI DNR for making it clear as mud in every other document.


Landowner Agent/Assistant
All persons assisting a landowner (i.e., acting as an agent of a land-
owner) in the removal of animals causing damage must possess
the following in accordance with NR 12.10(3)(c):
a) A valid hunting or trapping license if shooting or trapping the
animal.
b) Written approval from the landowner, which includes:
• Name, address, and phone number of landowner and per-
son removing wild animals
• Property location and removal activities
• Authorized time period of removal
• Species of animals authorized for removal
• Signature of the landowner or lessee and date

your missing that you were the only person to bring that up and I just found it myself a short time ago tonight.

that is what every one of us who posted on this thread missed , so it was obviously very well written in plain language in the hunting and trapping regs , we have all been reading for years.

it was in a document that was a referenced in a document refenced in the the hunting regs.

If they ask me this will be the re-write

Re-write after finding the https://p.widencdn.net/d9vt6g/nuswlguide
That finally clarifies land owner agent can use normal traps and shooting same as land owner



Extending Raccoon and Coyote seasons to have better effect for nesting game birds and nuisance management.


studies are showing that late winter and early spring removal of nest raiding predators benefits nesting birds. Fur prices are at or near record lows , there is little incentive to harvest raccoon at these prices and they are a significant nest predator. Coyote Hunting season is already open year round state wide. Making Raccoon hunting season open year round to match as well as extending trapping of Raccoon and Coyote from Feb 15th till the end of beaver trapping season. this varies by zone
Zone A: Nov. 4, 2023 – April 30, 2024
Zone B: Nov. 4, 2023 – April 30, 2024
Zone C: Nov. 4, 2023 – March 31, 2024
Zone D: Dec. 4, 2023 – March 15, 2024

Do you support extending the raccoon hunting season to year round to match coyote as well as extending trapping of raccoon and coyote to match the last day of beaver trapping season each year?

Glad I could be of assistance. As a customer service representative for the DNR who gets tons of nuisance animal calls, those nuisance wildlife regs are second nature for me. I can see how that would be missed by not reading the nuisance wildlife regs and going solely off what's in the trapping regs.

I wonder if you would get a lot less nuisance calls if it they didn't half print it in the hunting and trapping regs.

it almost seems like they intentionally leave that part out while spending a lot of ink explaining what under 18 year old can hunt and trap them on the family property.

if they printed the any agent of can hunt or trap nuisance animals with permission of the landowner they would clear up a lot of confusion.

like I pointed out in another post they start to say it then jump into by box traps

If the resolution does not move forward, maybe, just maybe the discussion and the input can move to making the already existing options more visible, less wordy and less demanding in all the land owner written permission etc. etc. It would be intersting to find out if the large commercial firms doing ADC work in WI are following every point that is listed in that land owner? agent text.

Bryce

If customer service had any influence in what was in the regulations, things would be much easier. Wildlife and fisheries seem to not care about the input we provide year after year after year. Or their tied by legislative/admin code language.

But most folks that call about nuisance wildlife don't have a fur shed full of traps and a gun rack full of solutions to their problems. I tell em they can trap or shoot them year round without a license, but they usually end up getting the list of nuisance trappers from the WTA website.

Good point Bryce. Perhaps the WTA could suggest this. I believe we foot some of the cost for publishing the regulations.

Zim

Op's idea that coyotes are bad for nesting birds might be mistaken.
Many studies have been done looking at coyotes and finds that altho they do occasionally go after nesting birds and eggs they also go after skunks and raccoons too. The net effect of coyotes might be beneficial to nesting birds.
Look into mesopredators.

https://nri.tamu.edu/blog/2018/june...and-the-mesopredator-release-hypothesis/

Pheasants forever recommends leaving coyotes alone if you want to help Pheasant populations.

the permission thing isn't that hard , I had a worksheet similar to this when I first started trapping and was trying to get a bunch of properties.
if all they have to do is sign and date at the end of a short conversation it makes it a lot easier

Trapping & Hunting Permission

I

______________________________________________________________________
Owner of

______________________________________________________________________
Property(s)
Phone _____________________________________________

Hereby Give permission to Pete and J
123 Green Street , Green WI 608-555-1234. to hunt and or trap.


Open season
all open season species or select from list all that apply by circling
Deer Turkey Bear Coyote Fox Rabbit Squirrel Raccoon woodchuck hare beaver crow pigeon Skunk weasel ermine mink otter bobcat weasel opossum
unprotected species


Nuisance or during closed season
(select from list all that apply by circling)
Coyote Fox Rabbit Squirrel Raccoon woodchuck
Hare beaver crow pigeon ermine mink
Cow birds grackle redwing blackbird
European starling, English (House) sparrow, coturnix quail, chukar partridge, opossum, porcupine, skunk, weasel , hog
not named unprotected species.


Permission is extended from Date ___________________ to _____________________

Signature _____________________________________________________________

Date ___________________

The thought with Coyote is if they are open to hunt year round and I was mostly pointing that out as this isn't a big ask if we can have one species open year round why not another and while we are at it why not trap them longer as well.

I also wrote that part before finding the nuisance agent documentation.

I took open season year round as a coyote are not native to WI give them heck.
If your giving them heck with a rifle or shotgun , a trap is often more effective.

I find the "not Native" argument weak. Many other "not native" animals are protected and have seasons on them. Such as Pheasants, Brown Trout, All Salmon in Lake Michigan,
Many native animals are gone and many not native ones are here, it has to be a case by case issue to decide which we are going to give heck and which we are going to appreciate and protect.
Things have changed alot since European settlement of this state.

Myself, I don't mess with coyotes, I don't think they are much of a detriment to deer populations but anything they do to negatively impact it is appreciated.
To me, deer are the worst pest out there. Your situation/experiences maybe be different, I'm OK with that, to each his own.

This was a study conducted by University of Minnesota- albeit dated, the population trend lines probably correlate closely to fur prices. Waterfowl undoubtably gets hit the hardest for nest predation with the raccoon targeting preferred forage areas. I support it but not sure the trappers that put the dents in this graph would.
"Regional harvest was highest from the 1970s through the late 1980s. Additional peaks in harvest occurred in the late 1990s, and early 2010s. These trends likely represent a mix of raccoon population dynamics, market demand, and trapping conditions." (UMN)

I am not really trying to make a strong argument for Coyote , it seems that was already done by someone at some point to get a year round season. I was just giving my read on the law.

the farm has has some issue with coyote coming in for Guinea hens and chickens

deer are the one thing the farm seldom sees in any quantity

I hunt part of Door county in the fall where yes Deer are seen as a definite annoyance and we shoot nearly every one we see during gun season. we have all the tags we could possibly fill and more , access is the issue , the same people that will gripe about deer eating everything all year , say no hunting them on their property.
so we shoot as many as we can but just for too much sanctuary they keep deer numbers higher than they would like.

you may recall you posted this graph a while back
https://p.widencdn.net/p60ogc/furharv

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7747566/re-graph-on-coon-fur-prices#Post7747566

that yes rather clearly shows price and harvest are very directly tied together

also where I took the >50 year low price from in my statement.

Dirty D - I agree with you about deer being a pest. If there wasn't a trophy aspect to deer, and if they didn't bring in big money for the state, they would be treated like coon or coyotes. The amount of property damage they do to fields, lawns, and vehicles adds up, but I guess that argument is for another time.

I also agree with Pete that the season should be extended, if not year-round. I get the landowner permission but it's just another hoop to jump through with the DNR/landowners. If not extended/open year-round, there at least should be an easier way to trap out of season. Something as simple as a verbal agreement between trapper and owner. Most out of season trapping I do is for friends and neighbors, getting into ADC might require more paperwork.

I remember building a spreadsheet with the fur harvest data and pricing- I never overlayed the nesting success rates but if anyone has access to it - it would be interesting to see the correlation.

I called my warden about trapping at the county fair grounds a few years ago we had an issue in the poultry barn days before fair

he had me get a letter from the fair board that basically said just what is on that document , didn't tell me you can do this any time , just what to get in writing. so I didn't know it could be done any time without calling your warden to let them know as the document states no requirement to notify DNR.
That must have changed at some point or there was always miss information circulating I recall at tappers ed years ago the warden saying if you need to do ADC work call us and we can approve it.

maybe if you make a income doing ADC work it is different but I didn't see that in the document.

feel free to copy and paste that sample worksheet into your own word or google doc and adjust it as needed for your use
you can fill it out , have the land owner sign it and I use the app on my phone to take a picture of it that saves it as a PDF or toss it on the photo copier.

with the documents all on the phone in a folder it makes them easy to carry I used to keep paper copies in the tuck.

they accept your hunting license saved to your phone as a pdf , it is still in writing even if kept digitally.

it states no need to notify warden only must possess

All persons assisting a landowner (i.e., acting as an agent of a land-
owner) in the removal of animals causing damage must possess
the following in accordance with NR 12.10(3)(c):
a) A valid hunting or trapping license if shooting or trapping the
animal.
b) Written approval from the landowner, which includes:
• Name, address, and phone number of landowner and per-
son removing wild animals
• Property location and removal activities
• Authorized time period of removal
• Species of animals authorized for removal
• Signature of the landowner or lessee and date

I almost wonder if unemployment data should be added to that graph it would explain why in 2011 harvest jumped while price was not high.
Dec 2010 is when I was surrounded by foreclosures in the matter of a month or two

it would also help explain the 2003-04 increases as well

I was doing some more looking and the actual legislation behind NR12.10 has the details behind the DNR Nuisance Wildlife Guide.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/admin_code/nr/001/12

it looks like it may have been updated in 2017 and 2022 not sure exactly when or if it changed the need for permit or permission from the DNR but it does state it is not necessary for given species listed.

Voltron, a verbal agreement would be entirely unenforceable. How hard is it to get a signature?

You just described where I live, mostly private with some public.

Lots of old-timers (and younger ones) around here don't like signing things. That smacks of lawyers and government involvement. We'd rather trust old school handshakes.

The only result from more and more rules is more and more violations. Willful or otherwise. But perhaps that is what the gov wants.

For you guys complaining about deer numbers, how many are you shooting or having shot off your properties? Hunters can't do a darned thing about deer they can't legally get to. I'd love to shoot 3 or 4 a year, but with most all properties "trophy" only or sanctuary, that doesn't leave much.

Oral contracts are enforceable in Wisconsin if they include explicit and definite terms, all the elements of contract formation, and can be performed within one year. If the contract is for longer than one year, it must be in writing. That was just a quick google search. It's as simple as "can you help me with my problem?" and "yea, I can do that". All anyone would have to do is verify that both parties agreed to the services being done. It's just that the DNR wants a paper trail. It's not hard getting a signature, and I would if I were trapping for someone that I didn't know, but when the neighbor calls me when he's calving in the spring saying he's having coyote issues, or there's coon getting into his feed, I would think a verbal contract would be good enough. Get in and get the job done.

that is why when I go out to the farm later to set for the current skunk issue , I am taking a copy of that circling everything dating in till 1/1/2026 have him sign it and calling it good then I have my paper if the DNR should stop.

with less than one warden per county they want the 30 second answer not a call this person or that person to verify.

I agree with you on the extending the season till March 31st, but it seems like having a year round season for coon on all lands (public and private) might only encourage people to shoot coons and let them rot that could have been taken (and used) by us trappers. I've noticed several people like that by me with coyotes on public land.