Burning coal seam

I thought I would post this because I think some members will find it interesting.
First a little background. I live in Eastern Montana. We have a lot of coal in this area. Some of the coal seams actually are exposed and can be ignited by wildfires or lightning.
In 2017 we had a big wildfire that ignited several exposed seams. Once they are burning is next to impossible to put them out. Most of them burn under the ground and vent steam and gasses along with smoke through cracks in the ground.
The one in the pictures to follow in unique. It is burning horizontally into a big hill and as the hill caves off you can actually see the burning coal.
They have mapped over 3000 burning seams in Powder River County and are just getting a good start mapping them In Rosebud county. The do the mapping in the winter with drones that have thermal capabilities and also measures the surface temperature at the seam.
This is the only one they have mapped that maxed the drone out at 950 degrees.

This is a view from below. The actual ignition point in 2017 is in the very bottom of the draw on the left of the picture.
[image]https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2024/02/full-32535-206965-20240126_121847.jpg[/img]
This is a view from above and behind the burning seam. The ground is cracking as the coal burns under it and eventually it will cave in do to lack of support.

This photo shows the amount of movement since 2017 and the burnt dirt and debris left behind and it burns to the west.

This photo shows the actual burning coal.


The last two photos and close ups taken from about thirty yards and let me tell you that is plenty close. The heat on your face in very intense. Of course being a guy I had to pick up a dead juniper stick and throw it in. I short armed it and it landed about three feet in front of the lip into the hole Within 15 seconds it was on fire.
Hope you all enjoy!

That’s crazy!

REALLY interesting!!! Thanks!!!

Moosetrot

Interesting, so they just eventually burn out once all the coal is consumed? Admittedly that may be a very long time.

Never seen anything like that! Thanks for posting.

Thanks that really cool. I had actually wondered if the ever happened. We have had peat bigs burn for extended periods.

Geo thermal extreme. Thanks for sharing, love these types of posts.

There has been an underground coal fire burning in the town of Centralia, Pennsylvania since 1962. In 1984 the government paid 42 million to relocate most of the folks who lived there. As of 2013 there were still seven residents living there.

The fire spread to under the nearby town of Byrnesville and it was abandoned and leveled.

Guessing this produces no CO2!

That’s amazing I’ve seen the stories like Lugnut is talking about the fear is co2 poisoning I think I’d move away.

That's interesting. I've drove through that country on various vacations.
Sioux Indians (and others) were all through that country all the time before whitey came along. Looks to me like that would have been a nice place to cuddle up close to one of those burning coal seams come a hard northern plains winter. Would have been plenty of buffalo in that country for meat.

Never knew about that until I caught a PBS documentary about it a few years back, worth the watch.

There is a mine in Ohio that has been burning since 1884. The miners got unhappy with the management during a strike and started a fire in one of the cars and rolled it down the track into the shaft.

Some years back now they dug some of them up and distinguished them somehow. They will leave huge undermine cavities that fall in and create huge sink holes.

That's a peak into (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)

Back in the early 80s, the mine I worked at caught fire. Loose connection on the DC ground cable. The fire really took off ….spread quickly. The heat of the fire weakened the mine roof, and it started to fall. Now you had a fire burning under hundreds of tons of rock, with unsupported top above it. It took us two weeks to get it out. We had 9 mine rescue teams respond , some came from as far away as Kentucky. ( this was in western Pa. ) The working section was filled with hip deep water from all the fire hoses…..it was warm like bath water. Eventually, we loaded out all the falls into 20 ton mine cars, and hauled them out of the mine, two cars at a time. I pulled the cars across the mine….I had to stop several times at a fire valve, hook up a 2” fire hose, and hose the car down because they were catching fire again.

When you got up close to the fire, it was an unreal sight. All the coal pillars were glowing orange, and when you hit it with water, the water stream just vaporized. We worked the upwind side of the fire, didn’t need any apparatus. It was something I’ll never forget.

That is incredible.

I know a spread in Central Montana I think has one been burning a long time. Older ones in your area?

Osky

That's crazy amount of seems burning, I've heard of some but had no idea there's so many.

I'm guessing you may have red scoria rock ?
Eastern Wyoming has lots if scoria varying from red to black in color. I trapped some country between Gillette and Wright that has miles of colored scoia much with a deep purple cast . The cats from that region were some of the highest dollar cats I've sold. The Scotiano is a product of burning coal beds.

There is another on about a mile south of this one that has been burning since my family homesteaded here in 1884. It is just a big crack in the ground about thirty feet long that vents the gasses. The ground is warm enough around it to melt the snow for forty feet on each side. Good place to catch bobcats!

That’s what I was thinking!

Looks hot enough to forge with.

Thanks for posting this. I never knew such things existed but it makes sense.

Thanks for posting this, I grew up in that country and have never seen anything like that. I’ll have to do some looking next time I’m back.

I remember the mine fires around Scranton when I was a kid. I would travel to Scranton with my grandparents and see the steam coming out of the ground. On one trip, the Big Chief grocery store was gone! The coal burned beneath the store and the building collapsed in the void.

The one is WV up near Clarksburg has been burning for over 55 years. I do not think it will ever burn out. Now you know why they have such strict laws and MSHA now.

The Dakotas, Wy and MT all have burning underground coal seams. Here is a great article on them. I just read about it and in the article, it said ND had about 50 of them put out about 10 years ago.
https://montanafreepress.org/2022/08/05/tracking-eastern-montanas-silent-firestarters/

Yes we have lots of scoria and lots of red shale.

The bad part about having the burning coal seams is that eventually they get to a tree root or the wind hits them just right and you have a wildfire. If it gets over 90 degrees and the wind blows your better have your head on a swivel looking for smoke.
Since that country burned in 17 we have had seven fires from burning coal seams reaching the surface.
It is rough country so bombers and smoke jumpers and the order of the day.

Seen one near Casper, Wyoming a few years ago. Seam opened up and sparked a wildlife. While working the fire I came across where it was burning out of the ground and how all the ground was sinking in about an acre around it. Was pretty cool seeing it and could smell the coal from a long ways off.

One thing about it you don't have to go far to reheat a meal for yourself when out checking you're line .

When I worked at Cabalo coal mine near Gillette the high wall ( coal ) had a smoldering fire or two all the time , we kept a close eye on them and the bubbling water puddles were Methane gas more fun stuff .

I grew up in coal country and this brings back the fear of living close to the mines. Had an uncle at Jim Walter #3 when it caught fire in the eighties. Knew some of the guys at Jim Walter # 5 when it exploded.

https://usminedisasters.miningquiz.com/saxsewell/jimwalter.htm

Coal mines have to be careful with their stockpiles outside the mine. If you have a large pile of coal, particularly if it’s dirty ( high ash), wet, that has been sitting there awhile and is higher in sulfur content….it will get hot. Hot, like catching on fire. The coal will oxidize, ( a form of spontaneous combustion ) and you’ll see it steaming. Dig into a pile of it with a loader, exposing it to air…it will sometimes it will burst into flames. I’ve seen loader operators scrambling to get their machine out of the coal pile…one big hot smoky mess.

It helps to keep coal piles compacted as much as possible. Sometimes spray the pile with latex ( that helps in keeping blowing dust suppressed too )

The power plants around here always have loaders working the coal piles. I have been told it was to keep them from catching on fire.

I saw a TV show on that...
unreal....Sad but true

thanks for sharing , cool read,

I went there once, it's weird seeing smoke come out of the ground.

I was there too hippie. Back in the 70's we used to drive through on our way to camp. All the houses were still there back then. There were a bunch of vent pipes everywhere blowing smoke.

Eventually they shut down that stretch of RT 61 and it became the Graffiti Highway.

Now we know what's causing global warming.

MT you didn’t happen to see any old sign of Jimmy Hoffa near that blast furnace?

Osky

Thanks very interesting

Those exposed seams are far more common than most realize. The coal industry in Alabama started from exposed seams along the Warrior River bluffs. The first "mines" were folks hacking out these seams then flat boating the coal down river to Tuscaloosa. Coal is still barged down river to this day.

My stretch of the river has two different creeks named coal bed creek on opposite banks.

And it's not just the coal that's flammable. I knew of one branch feeding one of those creeks that would burn if you held a match to where it flowed out of the ground, methane gas.

We have one In ND that is a National park. It is NW of Amidon ND. We have quite a bit of coal here.

Is this something that if they start to mine it they could put it out or is it too dangerous to mine?

Generally to dangerous. Mine fires can be extinguished but it requires being able to fully flood and/or starve of oxygen.

In the two I mentioned Jim Walter #3 had an excellent, and most importantly undamaged, ventilation system so they could wall it off to starve it and #5 sits directly under the Warrior river so the water supply was not an issue, they flooded it.

In the photos shown those are raw exposed seams not mines so no tunnels to pump in water or close off air. I also imagine no infrastructure to access the fire.

They tried several different ideas at Centralia like smothering it and pumping it full of water.

https://www.unilad.com/community/features/centralia-pennsylvania-coal-fire-250470-20230806

You are spot on. This particular seam in a 20 minute buggy ride that climbs about 500 feet from a shale road. After that it is a 400 yard hike another 200 feet up the hill. No feasible way to get ground equipment to it.