Advice on managing turkey population

I have noticed in the last few years I don't have many mature toms. Seem to have a pretty good population of jakes. The jakes now have ~2-to-4-inch beards. How long of time will it take those birds come into maturity with an 8-to-9-inch beard?

The reason I ask is if to many mature toms are harvested, will the flock stay health populated with all the young jakes?

Jakes are one year old birds this spring. A year from now, next spring, as two yr old birds, they will have 9” beards (roughly). The fact that you have a lot of jakes is good - that means there was a good hatch last spring. This year may be a little low on 2 and 3 yr old birds - but with all those jakes you are seeing - a year from now should be a good year

A two year old bird in our area can have a beard up to 10” or longer. The spurs are what can tell the tail of how old a bird is.

2 yr old Tom’s do a lot of the breeding in our area and can be fairly easy to kill due to lack of experience and agressive.

A bird 4 years old or more is rare and s trophy. These will respond to call but not come into them in my experience. They expect the hens to come to them.

Usually 2 year old beards are 7 inches and up but there are variables that dictate how long they are.iam not sure if genetics play a role in it or not. I think the majority of the birds shot in most states are 2 year Olds or Jake's. Normally the 2 year Olds do alot of gobbling and the older birds tend to be less vocal.but there are exceptions.

For our Black hills birds typically a 2 year old will have a 7-8 inch beard.

Tom's are mature at two years. Eastern turkeys will have longer beards than Merriam turkeys , yours are probably Merriam.

So, these bird I'm seeing have short beards. Will their beards grow to 7 plus inches by spring turkey season this spring? These pictures are from last week or so.

Looks like you could sell some hunts with that many birds. Guys are always looking to find a few Merriam birds to get their slams.

Any turkey experts ever send in a tooth for aging?

Hard to see in pictures but always seem to have younger birds. I usually have enough people ask to hunt and offer to some other also. No charge but my concern is mature birds and not over hunting it.

If you need help thinning the flock...let me know! LOL

So I noticed when I hunted Wyoming Merriams in the Recluse area, they were mature birds (meaning 2+ years old), but they had shorter beards compared to the easterns I am used to. I just looked at the pics and our measurements... the beards averaged 6". I attribute that to beard rot or frostbite. Our of 6 birds... we also had several that had only 1 spur, and even then it wasn't more than a nub. Generally I look at tail feathers if the beard is questionable. If they have a full fan, that's how I can tell. I have shot what I call a super jake... which was likely an early hatch and had all his big bird tail feathers (that's not a technical term), but like the two on the bottom right and left.

Also, most of the eastern jakes I see... you can barely see or just see their beards.

Our Black Hills birds have more of a pencil thick beard compared to the Eastern paint brush thicker beards.

Seems like a humble brag to me there Snowy. Lots of Jake turkeys isn’t a bad thing.

As long as you have a mess of hens also! Your population should be good as long as you don’t see a large reduction in hens. Keep good habitat for them and let it go!

If you want more mature toms. Kill a few of the jakes and what is left will be mature in a year or two. The young males are better eating anyway I’ve heard.

The key will be ground nesting predator management. I surely hope you are trapping the area. I’d offer to help but a 24 hour check is a bit of a ride for me.

But I will travel to kill a turkey so, let me know!

Those short beards are less than a year old. They have to be two to start seeing much growth. The turkeys here get in big flocks in the winter, I would guess it is the same there. I have see over 100 in a flock in the winter, maybe 200.

In the first picture there a couple of adult toms strutting notice the full even fans. In the last picture the are several jakes strutting as the center feathers in the fans are longer and the fan isn't even. Based on that you have a lot of jakes but may have more adults than you thing just with short beards for what ever reason. When I hunted in Montana you couldn't go by spur length to judge age as the wear the off and break them on rocks. Just my experience.

I'd Say

[quote=DelawareRob]Seems like a humble brag to me there Snowy. Lots of Jake turkeys isn’t a bad thing.

No, that isn't it at all but you can think what you want.
I found what I was looking for with MJM saying that it would take another year for those jakes to be a mature full fanned Toms. My concern was to many jakes and not enough mature Toms but it sounds like not to worry about it.

I noticed some smaller red looking ones in the flock in the second picture. Yes the Jake’s will have the full rounded tail and longer beards next year. Looks like you have a healthy flock of birds there.

Keep them fed and watered and you will have more than you will want in the future. Here water has a big impact on our birds very wet springs or very dry weather for the chicks makes a difference.

They are a very ritual creature they make their rounds and feed as they travel along. Yes, a wet spring is the perfect scenario for pheasant, turkey and upland game hatch success.

Year around water with cricks and river that are here.

A full fan on the Merriam's birds is a sure-fire way to tell a mature bird. The Merriam's birds have a short and thin beard due partly to ice forming on the end and breaking some of it off. Depending on where you hunt them also makes a difference, with southern Colorado having the thinner beard. Spurs in all areas as a general rule are very short and stubby due to the rough terrain and the huge amount of travel time, they put in looking for food compared to the Eastern Bird. Great flock of winter birds you have there Snowy.

Wet springs, at least in the south, con contribute to “wet hen syndrome”. As bird hunters are well aware, wet damp conditions make it much easier for bird dogs to detect their quarry. Same with predators and ground nesting birds. Wet springs lead to poor nest success down here

Yes some moisture is good but not too much. In the west we can go for long periods of not even morning dew and that hurts the bird populations.

Yep, exactly!! Hardly ever have to worry about too much moisture here. Yes, the dewy mornings is what we want here for a successful hatch. No dewy morning while egg laying is not good for any upland game.

The question is do jakes do the breeding if a low number of mature Toms. In my research not sure if true but what I'm seeing is a one-year-old jake doesn't have the fertilization capability at that age to have a clutch.

To have a healthy flock of wild turkeys my concern is just that.

As a Southerner, I don’t go by beards on y’all’s birds. Beards can break off during freeze conditions. I look for a full fan. The first Merriam I killed I thought I’d made a mistake and shot a jake. He had a full fan when I shot, but I wasn’t used to wispy little beards and basically nubs for spurs. Different parts of the country produce different beard length and spurs for Merriam’s. NM had almost every bird looking like a jake as far as beards and spurs. The PNW had better beards and even spurs for Merriam’s. Full fan and its beak gets smashed.

Yep, fans are the true indicator of maturity. Spurs here on the Merriam's are nubs and aren't sharp. I have taken many through the years spurs are not a good measuring stick for age at all.

Man, a lot of jakes and not seen but one mature tom. I believe in this picture all jakes about 16 of them right there. I guess will see the next two bring and see f some mature birds show up and how many. Still debating how much hunting pressure I want without mature birds.

We have had “jake years” in places when their numbers exploded, seen it in WI and in western SD years back jakes everywhere it seemed like every younger bird was a jake. Seeing a solid string of the was not uncommon that year. We still got our gobblers no problem can’t remember any major increase in gobblers the next season either it was a come and go nature thing.

We shot our SD birds so we popped over to WY for some NR over the counter tags at a hardware store In Newcastle. We talked with a beautiful young lady Turkey hunter at the store doing the same thing. She commented on all of jakes they had run into so I knew it was going on in other places. I pointed to my buddy and said ya he’s a jake killer you should have seen his face it was a hoot.

That is an interesting observation and like you said, it is a nature thing and will all play out according to nature. I guess time will tell when breeding season get going to see what is around then.

We had some major swings at the ranch over the years I’ve seen the usual flocks of 30-40 some years a couple hundred under ideal conditions in the spring wheat fields. One thing I noticed is the coyotes show up when you’re calling often that happens often.

see the stepped fan? the 4 long feathers inn the center, he will be like that till he molts after mating season, he may well have a 7" beard but will be a jake this season

Ridge Runner1960 >>> that is what I was thinking would be the case. Thanks for your knowledge.

Not trying to tell you something you don't already know: More jakes than toms like more little bucks than big ones. In the winter jakes hang together, toms together, and hens together. Sometimes jakes will try to hang out with the toms but the toms do not prefer it. There can be a flock of 15 toms in the winter staying on 200 acres and come spring they will be spread out over 2000 acres. All of that of course is in Missouri. So the toms are around some where. If the hens stay there in the spring then a few toms will definitely show up. A jake(s) is not going to have a spring flock of their own.

I’m not understanding the “wet spring”? Unless you’re talking an over abundance of rain. We generally have a wet spring and produce quite well. Of course that’s private land and with optimal habitat and a strict predator management program.
A wet Spring makes everything grow and produce. When vegetation and food grows it provides the necessary cover for ground nesters. Cover protects the chicks and poults and produces food as well. A drought or dry Spring/Summer is never good.
This info is for Eastern’s, Merriam’s may can survive differently. I don’t see how anything survives y’all’s winters. I cringe every Winter my brother sends me pics from Washington, lol.

TurkeyTime >> thanks I appreciate your help. I had a guy ask me today if he could turkey hunt this spring and I said, that is no problem. I didn't say anything about not seeing any toms. I will see how things look in a few months and will have an idea on the presence of the toms at that time.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/turkey-population-decline/

Interesting info if interested.

That was a great read!!! Thank You.

I guess that is why I pay attention to wildlife and if I can make a difference the help them sustain that is everyone job as an outdoorsman.

In WV I have watched Jakes breed Hens. They will sneak around and Breed them until the old Gobblercomes in and runs them off. Then they hang out waiting for a chance.

Just remember that they are yarded up right now. When the weather get warm these groups will break up. Then you'll see your big toms.

Yeah, that might be the case and yes, time will tell. It has seemed in the last few years I don't see many Toms. Always a few but not many but always seem to have a hatch of chicks. This last fall and so far, this year the Toms seem to be less.

Thanks