Looking to buy a new rifle

So my oldest daughter lost a good buck this year, she hunts and is a good shot but doesn’t shoot as much as her younger sister and I. Where we hunt was timbered about 8 years ago and it’s become not the place for the 243 anymore. She is tall but yet thin in stature and really despises recoil, she would still be carrying the 223 if it were her choice. Anyhow long story short thinking of buying a .308 for her, possibly with a brake. Thoughts? Guessing 130gr or so? Any suggestions on gun or different caliber?

260 or 7mm08 would be easy to shoot as would a 7x57 Mauser. My friend’s daughter shot a 6.5 Swede. First kill was 300 yd broadside shot on a cow elk.

Maybe look into a 7mm-08 I believe it's .308 but with less recoil

My suggestion would be a 7mm-08 with "reduced recoil" ammo. I have given 3 to young kids and they all shoot them quite well.

7x57 and 6.5 Swede are a couple of my favorite calibers but "reduced recoil" factory ammo isn't available. I REALLY liked 7x57 but the Swede is quickly surpassing it.

that brush will continue to grow and will eventually become a pole stage habitat ('wildlife desert"), before eventually progressing to small sawtimber.

I think if I were you, I'd invest my time in obtaining different hunting grounds, rather than buy another rifle to be used in an area that may not even hold many deer in the relatively near future.

I'd be curious to here where the 243 falls short. I feel it's a very solid caliber on whitetail out to at least 200 yds. If I was going to step up from there I'd go the 7mm 08 or 270.

What's that mean?

I'm not one to discourage a new rifle purchase. 7mm08 is a perfect deer gun IMO for a small framed person.

What grain of bullets are you using in the .243?

Barnes solid copper will solve the brush problems

I am 77 and had my fifth rotator cuff surgery in September. I no longer tolerate recoil well. Still in PT. I have many rifles to chose from but my Mod 700 in 7-08 is about as large as I can risk this season. It is an all around good rifle. It dropped a large ten point buck in northern Idaho, so I know it is capable of cleanly taking anything in NC with a good shot. Your daughter should have no problem with a 7-08. Find her a Model 7 if possible.

A 308 will work as well with a little more recoil. I also have a Mod 7 in a 308. It carries well and is handy in a deer stand (how I hunt).

I still think a 7-08 shooting 120 grain bullets seems like a perfect fit for both of us. Good luck. Will it be a Christmas gift from her dad?

I'm .308 all the way. Feed it 150 barnes ttsx. If you brake it you can probably go heavier and it will still be like shooting a 22.

The 7-08 is probably a great option I hadn’t considered, her sister carries a creedmore which I had to do some pretty serious homework with to find a close range(<100 yrd) load I was pleased with. I feel the Swede would be very similar to the creedmoore in that it is a great cartridge but not a great deer cartridge at closer ranges. Just eating at me that the kid did what she was supposed to do hitting the deer 2 out of three shots and not getting him. The deer made it off our property onto the neighbors where another guy claimed it, not sure he fired a shot., if he finished it off it’s his, no question, otherwise not so much.

The ttsx is a great bullet, that’s what we went to in the creedmoore.

The .243 isn't the issue
Brush rifles are a fallacy and a larger bullet can and will deflekteer just as easy.

but A 7- 08 with a copper barnes bullet would be a good choice.

practice practice also

Have you looked at weatherby rifles the 300 has some pretty rough kick but you could stay in the .2’s caliber and have a fast moving bullet that still has pretty good knock down power.

I picked up a Kimber 84M mountain rifle in 308 has a brake on it super light and minimal recoil they also chamber it in 7-08 That being said I shot the gun with no brake much more recoil
someone had mentioned 7x57 -7mm I have a ruger Rsi number one in that and love that caliber both my daughters have shot that rifle with zero complaints on recoil. downside is the rifle is to nice for me to take in the woods.I have been looking for a 7mm-08 a caliber ive always wanted but not certain on any particular brand yet.

A deer size animal is only going to absorb some much energy from a bullet all the extra energy just keeps going with the bullet. That deer didn't get away because the caliber she was using unless it was past 200 yds or you were using the wrong bulletl.. Last 2 deer we shot with a 243 never took a step. One last night at 60 yds one 2 years ago at 180 yds. 1mm bigger bullet isn't going to have any different terminal performance on a whitetail.

Just use a better bullet.

Agreed not the fault of the .243, if dad wouldn’t have gotten so enamored with how well the 85 grain sst’s shot and dropped the 100 gr corelocks, it might have been different, if dad would have realized it was a 120-130 inch 10 point I might have pushed it more, if pap and little sis didn’t have a couple down for dad to take care of it probably been different, but at any rate dad’s gonna use it as an excuse to buy another gun.

Sounds like an accuracy problem more than a caliber problem and I surely doubt going larger is going to help a person that admittedly has an aversion to recoil. Not a deer in north america that can stand against a properly placed 243 round. Hope you find something that works for her.

So dad created the reason to buy another gun now everything makes sense.

I think what you're saying is the brush is getting to thick to not get a shot where your going through some brush.

my cousin is a huge fan of the 243 on deer for many years he used to do crop damage tags for some big orchards he has shot hundreds of deer with the 243 , that was until he had a few where there was brush in the swamp he was hunting and he watched the brush explode and the deer keep going untouched.

so he started asking about better brush guns

12ga is one of the better answers if your going through some brush just because of weight
45-70 also weight
slow and heavy keeps trucking with the least deviation. everything has deviation. heavier things take a greater outside force.
obviously those are also a lot of recoil

we did some deflection testing with 308 because he was thinking 308
we did 150 and 180gr rounds hitting plywood target at 25 yards we started with a big sheet of cardboard behind about 5 yards and we kept backing up the carboard and shooting groups into the plywood

180s were better than 150s

the deflection was taking a 1 inch group I was intentionally moving around a little bit trying to catch the edge of hole in the wood and making it a 6-8 inch groups 15 yards behind the target

the conclusion we came too is if the deer is in some brush like 3-5 yards into willows that you can see but might hit something 180gr 308 should work
if your shooting out of the brush and will hit it with more than 10 yards to target nothing is going to work the way you want.


a Big question would be could you cut some shooting lanes ? a little time with a saw or loppers might make a lot more sense than a heavier bullet firing rifle. after all she is recoil sensitive.

does PA allow semi auto rifles now ? if your going to go heavier semi auto takes some of the recoil out of it

Brakes , you trade noise for recoil , if your directly behind the rifle you don't notice it much but if your next to the person shooting you feel the pressure wave.
if your trying to shoot a brake in a confined space like a box blind , you better have that muzzle out the window or it is going to be very very loud ear drum damaging.

how do you feel about a suppressor , it takes a lot of the felt recoil out as well as a good share of the noise , yes it means a tax stamp and money and it would have to be legal to hunt with in your state. I don't know your regs.

Gotcha. 100 grain corlokts is what I shot in the 243. If your shooting a 100yds or less accuracy of a bullet shouldn't be an issue and sst are a somewhat fragile bullet by design.

I'll join the crowd endorsing the 7mm-08. My son killed with one shot a young bull moose with a 7mm-08, and recoil is mild.

I hate muzzle brakes and take them off any rifle that comes with one. You need double hearing protection and I hate the blast in the face worse than recoil.

Jim

I bought a CVA Scout single-shot 350 legend this year for a new deer rifle. Put a Leupold 3X9X40 scope on it and it will do the deed out to 200 plus yard and kicks about like a 243 or less

Bush growing in? I have an extra very nice Marlin 30-30 lever gun here….


Osky

.243 with good bullets are fine. A bigger caliber ain't gonna do squat..

Naw. never expect a bullet (any bullet/ caliber) to perform unless on its intended target.
Brush busting bullets is a farce!.

My granddaughter weighs maybe a 110 lbs and shoots a 300 blackout, she has put 2 down with it.

If she despises recoil she will despise shooting all together if she shoots a rife with a break on it the first time she's not wearing hearing protection.

.308 kimber adirondack

Weatherby Camilia in 7mm-08. My 4' 11" wife loves hers. It's made to fit a female shooter.

My son lost a deer at 12 with a 243. Well placed shot just lot of under brush and short visibility. Problem with a 24; is very little blood trail . I found the deer a week later about 75 yards Issue was the deer ducked back in the thicket but was out of sight in 3 leaps. It was on a well worn trail But turned 180 degrees and went into a mass of briars . No exit wound no blood. Next season he was carrying a 270

I’ve killed a truckload of deer with a 6 mm. But lot of them won’t have a blood trail . Bigger caliber such as a 270 30-06 WILL. I’ve hunted property like he is talking about . 3 steps and you can’t see the deer . Neck shots are the answer but he’s talking a his daughter so chest cavity is target . Not so much of not killing the deer but it dying in sight because of lack of blood trail.
The comment about he needs to just buy more property is just nuts . The other that there won’t be any animals in few years must be an ag deer hunter. Deer is just an overgrown rabbit. Black berries are the second most sought out browse in my areas only behind honey suckle
You think a heavier caliber won’t anchor them better you need to talk to the boys out west . 300 win mag seems to be their choice
Can’t believe no one had mentioned the obvious choice for the young lady. 350 legend.

Sorry black oak missed your post

Wrong

Switch bullets ,Barnes makes great ones .

Yep^^^

350 ledgend and don't look back for thick cover to 150 yd open shots less recoil than the 243 tons of good on utube about it

260 and 7mm-08 are both great calibers in my opinion. My kids both shot a bunch of animals in the 260. I bought my daughter a 7-08 a couple years ago and it’s been awesome. The 260 I have is a compact model so they have out grown it, but it’s killed a bunch of deer, antelope, elk and 1 mountain lion.

Lots of good responses in this thread. As others have said I also think 7mm-08 would be a great option for her. 243's aren't bad though, as although a touch on the light side for me they make for a nice deer gun, but a shot that isn't placed well can lead to a wounded or lost animal more often than w the little bit larger calibers, seen it several times. In the 30 yrs I've been whitetail hunting the rifles I've primarily used (in order) were 30-30, 30-06, 270, 300wm, and 308 which is what I've used now for several yrs and really like. 7mm-08 is an awesome round however, had I gotten one earlier I might not have the 308, it’s about perfect for deer imo especially in that 140 gr range. It utilizes an ideally sized .284 bullet and delivers excellent energy with good bc's. (Again, this is in reference to whitetail hunting.) No it's not one of the relatively newer gen high bc bullets like 6.5cm or 300prc but the vast majority of deer hunters will really never realize any of the benefit those high bc bullets offer. And in terms of recoil a 7mm-08 is already fairly tame but can be made even easier shooting by going down to 120gr or so and still have plenty of energy. It's not that I dislike the 243, just that I think there's several better offerings for deer sized game. A nice 7mm-08 is a gun she can grow with and will likely be her primary gun going forward as there’s really no need for anything else.

Stock design and rifle weight have slot to do with recoil also.

Time shooting will help her too, imo.

6.5 grendel gets my vote, perfect for deer hunting. I'vee used about everything out there, and I carry one for deer/bear hunting when shots are going to be 350 yards and under. this was my 53rd deer season, harvested 2 bucks and a doe with it

7x57 139gr Hornady SST is my caliber of choice. To me it is the perfect caliber. 257 Roberts would be my choice for whitetails. My wife shoots a .243 95gr Hornady SST, everything she has shot dropped there or within sight of the shot.

Any excuse is good to buy a New Rifle

If I know someone is recoil sensitive, I want to see their targets, and even more so if shot at the same distance and from the same place they are shooting from in the field. They have to be able to reliably place all shots inside a 4 to 5 inch circle at that distance and from that place. If they can do that, they are good to go with most rifles, including a 243. If not, it's not the rifle's fault. Shooter needs a lot more help with time on the trigger.

223. No recoil. Kills them dead. Use a good bullet and put it in the right place. No problem. Any doubters I would ask how many deer have you shot with a 223?

Around here, first blood takes it regardless of finishing shot by another.

Either way, she didn’t waste the deer, it was recovered. I can see being disappointed but she shouldn’t beat herself up about it. IMO. Get back on the horse!

Not sure about this case but imo a lot of “get aways” are wrongly blamed on the rifle.

If you can't hit the right place with a 243 then a heavier recoiling rifle is not the answer. What she needs it trigger time and an understanding in deer anatomy. If you load that 243 with something like a 90 grain TSX or TTSX, there is not a deer on this continent that will walk away inside 300 yards IF you hit the right spot.
If you want more energy down range, you will get a harder thump on the shoulder in return. You just cant beat physics.

Just my 2 cents worth and probably worth less than that.

I have used a 243 for many years, on open country deer. Use 100 gr nosler partition bullets and reload. Lots of 200 yard shots . Prefer heart lung shots They are down within 100 yards., death run. If later in the day, I will use a front shoulder shot and down them in place.. Quite often find bullet , under the skin on the opposite side. . I use a 308 auto loader with a peep sight for brush hunting, 180 gr nosler partitions, for deer and moose. I have shot my grand daughters & mm 08 , and really like the round , I loaded her up some 140 gr nosler partitions. I think lots of practice , know your rifle and a good bullet are the places to start. old 243

Interesting.

I suspect we have a lot more people hunting a given tract of public land than you do; but around here, the [general] consensus is the one who anchors it to the ground is the victor. Having said that, it's not iron-clad...you have a young kid hit a deer and you drop it when it runs by? c'mon...give the kid his deer. and a pat on the back...

I've personally shot 2 deer with the 22 250. More energy than the 223. Both well placed shots. Both recovered within a 100yds. But I didn't like the terminal performance I saw. 22 calibers. 22 calibers put too many limitations on shots on deer for my preference.

I've also helped track 2 deer shot with 223. One good shot placement, one probably poor shot placement. Neither any blood which made recovery very difficult. No blood with either of my 22-250 kills either.

Totally agree with you white marlin..... what a scumbag for taking his kids deer a young girl at that how proud can he really be of it...really following this thread have a daughter I need to buy a rifle for soon

Some of you guys are missing the entire point of this thread He is wanting some caliber that has a better margin for error. Less recoil. Plus makes recovery easier. His hunting place is going to get thicker as time goes on. Not every one hunts spots that you can watch the deer fall over after running 75-150 yards. He’s wanting this for his kid . You haven’t felt anxious until you are looking for a a deer you know is dead but had ran into a maze of tunnels in briars over your head. Multiple that times infinity when a young hunter is behind the gun shaking with excitement

Stop with the 243,223, will kill stuff. We know it will. More deer has fallen to a 22 rim fire but you want her to hunt with that? He’s looking for a happy medium. Not shoulder breaking recoil. Knock down power if marginal hit. Hole big enough to have a blood trail
I don’t own a 350 legend never will. But it seems to fit the bill on all he’s wanting. Plus legal in some shotguns only states

My 14 yr old daughter isn't a big kid by any means and she shoots her Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor very well. Decent price, low recoil and the thing is a tack driver. Lots of bullet options to fit your ideals.

I mounted a middle of the road Vortex on it. She loves cranking it up to 15x and looking the deer over.

A rifle and or scope set up that fits her is going
to get her on target faster
than any magic number.
But this is the web and guys love their calibers.

Typing this thought brought on by the above post, not a slap at the OP.

Too many people buy an extra box of shells and go to the range, lay over a truck hood or side, set at a makeshift table etc and burn those 20 shells up on a target. That doesn’t necessarily make you ready for the hunt or even a hunter, Nor does just passing a hunter safety course and purchasing a gun.
There is a lot more to take into consideration during the build up and trigger pull. To be a hunter. There should also be ever-present the thought of a search and recovery involved and an honesty within of wether you can accomplish that critical component of a successful hunt, in whatever terrain you have chosen. That factor hinges strongly on the shooters ability to stay on the sights and see and understand the impact location.

There was a thread here a day or two back where a deer was shot and left until the morning retrieval. A good bunch of guys here called the hit pretty darn well just from explanation of the deers reaction to the hit. Terrific example of knowledge seldom taught these days and should be stressed more.

Hunting with other good hunters every chance to put a “newby”” of any age on a hit trail should be taken advantage of. That’s where the learning happens blood on the trail or not.
Hooved animals leave trails some very subtle, but they are there.

This is a long way around to saying a .243 is just fine, in a HUNTERS hands. I know plenty of guys on this site and others who are hunters. To them a blood trail is certainly no deal breaker in choosing caliber. No matter the caliber things happen, blood trails are no guarantee. Comfort, practice and familiarity with the weapon, fit and tuning of the chosen weapon, conditions/limitations when using the weapon, and again holding in to see the result of the shot, hopefully on the quarry.

A couple weeks ago I posted a tale here of a young lady with me on her first big game hunt and the success she had. She took a fine mule deer buck at a fair distance with a .243 loaded with Hornady 90gr ballistic tips. I knew that was a small hole in and don’t count on an exit set up. As we waited for the opening to shoot, guns ready I had plenty of time to switch her over to the .270 I was carrying. She had practiced a lot of rounds, different rifles ahead of time with me from a .17 up to a 30.06 with a brake. I knew she could handle the .270 just fine.
I left her on the .243 because I knew I could track down whatever happened. Even on dry broken prairie. The bullet did exactly what I thought after breaking two ribs, stayed inside. After the shot and she calmed down our first walk was to the hit site and picked up the scuff marks where the buck bolted, then followed what there was straight on to the dead buck. No blood trail at all, no biggy.
The deer wasn’t far, I saw the hit was good and she saw the deer “hump” with the hit as well. All good things I think she learned and retained. No heroics, Indian secret knowledge, armor piecing do all bullets and rifles, or red spray just hunting 101 and some experienced guidance made it all come together.
I think basic knowledge, experience and common sense trump’s technology in many cases and needs to be more leaned on again. “Thump the magic rifle” is just a myth.

Osky

By what I read on the original post is that the kid hates recoil. So anything with more power than the 243 she is using now is going to have more recoil. I stand by using the 243 with copper mono bulets or even the nobler partitions. If you then shoot for the high shoulder, any tracking will be of the vertical kind. But you have to practice and know where to put it. Its that simple. If she thinks that the 243 has to much recoil to shoot comfortably, how much is she going to practice with a 7-08 ?? Handing a kid a gun once a year to shoot at a deer is not going to cut it ...( Not saying that that was done in this case but it happens way to often ) My neighbor is a case in point. So I have taken his two daughters down to my range with me to get them some rifle time under their belt throughout the year. They both have filled their tags for this year with no tracking involved. In the UK, the 243 is by far the most popular deer round ... as a side note. I have used 6.5 Swede for many years because ... that is what I had and it worked on everything I pointed the thing at. But it has more recoil than a 243.

If it's a recoil issue, reload to weaker charge and drop bullet weight.
70 grain Nosler ballistic tip is a fantastic deer bullet.
Any smaller framed person should be able to handle it.

My $.02 -

I purchased Tikka T3 Lite rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor for my sons matched with Leupold Freedom 4-12 scopes with 6.5 Creedmoor reticle.

They have shot deer out to 350 yards. Incredibly accurate rifles with mild recoil.

That's the rifle I got my kid.

IMHO - The stocks look and feel like cheap tupperware, but I like walnut and blued things.

The .243 she was carrying was my first.gun, I have taken dozens of deer with this thing, I’m not a hater, comes down to bullet selection, I selected wrong on due to lights out accuracy of the 85 grain sst, going to mess around with 90 or 95 gr. Ttsx. As I said before she hit 2 out 3 shots running in the woods, once in neck, once square in the front shoulder, the neck shot was a bullet splatter and the front shoulder didn’t get quite good enough penetration to drop him. Thank you all for your very good input, gonna mull this over and probably buy another mid range caliber.

I expect exit wounds and blood trails in our conditions. Some cover is heavy enough you ain't seeing tracks or seeing deer unless your within 10 foot of it(sometimes less). It's not hard to find a bullet for a 243 that will do this within 200 yds and has great terminal performance.

If one wants an exit wound, choose a bullet that will do that. Last year I loaded up some 62 grain TSX for the 223 WSSM and it anchors a deer on the spot with a high shoulder shot and I did not recover th bullet. Obviously that would not happen with say a 50 gran V max. Choose the right tool for the job in hand. We are so lucky today as we have a bullet for every situation in almost any caliber we want to use.I guess the downside to that is that we have a lot of wrong choices of bullets in almost any caliber we choose.
Edit:
I forgot to mention, that where I hunt ( my property) its a very similar scenario to the OP's with thick briars in places and new grows poplar sticks growing that need thinning out, but there is only so much one guy can do. The point being that I can't afford a shot where I need to do any form of tracking. either it would end up lost in the thick stuff or on a neighboring property. So I aim to anchor them right where they stand. Yes you do loose half a pound of meet with a high shoulder shot. But you don't loose the whole deer.

There are partition type bullets in .243 to 100gr and years ago you could get110gr but I’m not sure on that anymore.

Osky

not for long, it won't.

in relatively short order, that brush will turn into saplings, then begin to thin out naturally into poletimber (wildlife desert)

Agree Marlin. Log a section every ten years for good habitat.
Some guys do it in a diamond pattern.
It makes the funnel where you want it.

Fred has the girl ever tried a 30-30 carbine?
I knew some smaller hunters that did quite well with them.

I still say rifle fit is more important than the stamp.
Heck bows kill a boat load a year.

Think your answer is in there somewhere, but it's not going to require a new rifle to correct. Running shots in the woods? If she is hitting those, she has my utmost respect, as successful shots at running deer are a "long shot" for most, and that would include me.

First report I ever heard about the SST was from a young man working as range officer at an MDC shooting range. His complaint? They blow up meat. What say? So he was using a rapid expanding bullet to try to punch thru a shoulder? Move behind the shoulder and punch thru ribs to blow out lungs........and that is a good place to send an SST. The meat saver shot. What he needed to be punching thru shoulder was a tougher bullet along the lines of a cup and core or partition. Give her a factory level 100 grain partition and a standing deer and get a knife ready. You are going to be needing one soon.

When I pick a bullet/ caliber I want one that will work for neck, head on, high shoulder and hard quartering shots and punch through any bone in the shoulder. I don't want to pass a buck of a lifetime or miss a shot by a little bit and not recover a deer because I was shooting a fragile bullet that can only penetrate 3/8 inch of ribcage and splatters. Things happen while hunting and a bullet with that kind of terminal performance is too limiting. Hornady should state its only a good bullet for broadside through ribcage only not that's its an excellent deer bullet. A good bullet will perform on any of those valid shot placements.

we call the meat saver shot the intersection of the front leg and spine ,because then your meat doesn't run away so another hunter can put a round in it and call it theirs.

if you were hunting the middle of 400 acres in an open field where you can see the deer run your meat saver shot could be through the ribs take the lungs and you could just drive the truck to the deer to pick it up.

if your hunting a 40 your never more than 220 yards to a fence

Tikka T3, 7 mm, 08 with 11 ounces mercury recoil suppressor installed in the butt stock. It will kick like a 243 and hit like a 7 x 57 no muzzle blast from a muzzle brake. It would also help to have the length of pull adjusted to fit her

From about 1980 to now I hunted a large for where I hunt arear of mixed variety of trees Mostly oaks popolar maple and cherry .It was in the 1970's put into a management plan for the harvest of lumber . Some areas where clear cut when the plan was started ,Other parts of the forest where not cut at all and still others where cut either by taking out only certain species of trees or size .So it was getting cut in away that as time went on all the different stages of tree growth clear cuts early successional another word for head high blackberry & raspberry briars pokeberry multiflora rose locust cherry maple popular mixed oaks and all so thick you needed to crawl on hands and knees to get through And carrying and small pruners help a lot in being able to remove sone branches that it was not otherwise easy to get around pole stage and selective cut areas where part of the habitat And of course around the woods where ag fields And crop rotation and terrain made some of those areas great spots to place stands to get shooting at deer that where traveling on escape route that crossed open fields S o the point is if you chose which type of rifle to use in certain types of cover you can be short changing yourself when it comes to being where the deer are The idea that certain calibers are better brush guns than some other calibers is over stated No bullet is designed to cut trees off as it is on it.s way to a target animal Andit is also possible that a skinny bullet will slide between trees Being a good shot is the primary way to get the most out of any gun you shot An of course recoil has a role in that . Several mention the 7 mm 08 some others pointed out the 7x57 the 6.5 Swede I was a Ruger 308 M77 in the ultra light model I was concerned about the recoil But it wa a great handling gun and it,s light weight made it a nice rifle to use when waking or in a tree stand It ws a gun that fit me and hereforeI wa ble to get good shots when using it .There i nothing wrong with the 243 as a deer caliber And I would also add that a 25.06 a 257 Roberts a 280 a270 a 264 mag plus many others will and have been used to kill many deer So I would say buy another gun You can never have to many But keep in mind there is no perfect caliber or type of action Bolt /pump/lever that will kill every time it goes off the shooter is the main factor in success Get a gun that fits you well Use it where it is best suited for and practice with it by using it to hunt ground hogs or other types of critters that will provide a way to get shooting that will mimic your deer hunting situation And again if you can buy another gun You will be happier if you have options

I think part of what he is saying she hit it 2 of 3 times on a running deer

1 round seemed to get bullet blow up on the shoulder hit without getting in to the organs

1 round hit the neck and didn't catch the spine

1 round the miss seems to have been deflected by brush

a heavier bullet or harder bullet may have made a difference at least on that shoulder hit

expansion is nice but when it is all you have and you dump energy without penetration you can make a wound that doesn't stop the deer from going a long ways

a better and or heavier bullet might very well have made that shoulder shot a stopping one or one that punched 2 holes leaving a blood trail to recover the deer.

with perfect shot placement a 22 short will work
but if your looking for the most forgiving round or bullet , something that can make 2 holes

heavier has a better chance at making 2 holes it has more weight to shed and keep on trucking.

recoil being the issue if your willing to give up range you can have heavy and modest recoil

max needed range is a good question to ask if the answer is you can seldom see >100 yards then don't sweat less range take the heavier with less recoil.

if not start testing bullets that can both expand and keep 90+% of their weight like bonded or monolithic

I know guys used to do tests with wet news paper to test expansion you don't need a perfect test you need a repeatable test medium

if you took 4 inches of news print sandwiched it in 1/2 inch plywood scraps and shot it with the current round , the heavier previously used 243 round and a few other options if you can figure out where you stop the bullet your questioning then look for a bullet or bullet cartridge combo that exceeds that but still gets you recoil goal you have the solution.