5.56/.223 ammo ? < not a joke

Just wanting to know your thoughts. I see people buying fmj by the cases and you don't really hear of the expanding rounds( sp, hp, and ect) . Is this because it's cheaper? A person would think if it was for a -they would want expanding ammo. Just a thought on a Sunday.

I know Navy SEALS were complaining about so many of the enemy staying in the fight after being hit with FMJ ammo. I don't know if that was remedied or not.

I buy fmj for target practice, then reload with psp or hp bullets. In a -situation, any bullet is better than none, and more is better.

Expanding bullets are for work. FMJ are for training, plinking, etc.

FMJ mass production allows for lower pricing Id guess and have their place in a fight with the penetration provided soft points have their place also for other applications . I would not want to be hit with either is my thought.

I go through a lot of 556/223. Buy it by the case and reload it. Mostly shooting fmj at steel and other training.

Have a few thousand rounds set aside for -that are not fmj. But I'd be ok with shooting fmj if it's all I had. Better than nothing.

If your fighting troops with helmets, body armor, or in vehicles... M855 or M193 has penetration advantages...Yeah good' ole hollowpoints or soft points give better expansion in flesh, but it has to get there first.

IMI (Israeli Military Industries) makes the best fighting rounds, IMO.

FMJ’s are not allowed for game hunting here, but I can tell you with 100% certainty if you hit a hog in the shoulder with one of them, he’s going down like a ton of bricks. Not sure if the bone fragments are what’s messing up the insides, but I can tell you I don’t want to get hit with one.
As far as deer I can’t really say, but if I had to guess, I’d say they fall too.

Some folks in Belgium decided that hollow point ammo was to cruel to use in a war scenario and that FMJ's are kinder to the soldiers. I am not sure if the USA actually signed that treaty / convention. But a lot of countries did and went that route. Thus ball amongst is produced in huge quantities and that makes it cheaper.
Personally the 223/ 5.56 FMJ or ball ammo in a - scenario is to me a moot point as My tools of choice are of a different caliber that work past the range of a 223 and for the most part turn cover into concealment.

Like everything else…it comes down to bullet placement. As far as a -moment, if you can’t be accurate, put as many bullets downrange and seek cover for a better vantage point. FMJ’s are cheap, spray and pray.

Lots of 556 sold out locally here. We could only get frangible rounds at another local dealer.
Crazy how fast the shelves emptied.
Jim

FMJ is the go-to for U.S. military under the Geneva Convention. You wouldn't want to get caught using anything else if your on the field in combat.

It would be court martial in effect. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it may show up in 7.63x39 or 5.56.

As has been stated the Geneva convention ratified non expanding bullets. Not necessarily sure the US ever agreed to that but that is the ammo of choice of the US military. Well up until now, we'll see how much they adapt the Sig and it's 6.8 round.

The Seals have been using alot of 77 grain match kings as of late. The argument is they are fighting terrorists who are unaffiliated with a country.

It's easy to say shot placement will overcome poor bullets until someone is shooting back.

This round is about as good as it gets in 5.56/223

https://www.black-hills.com/shop/mk-262-mod-1-c-mil-pack/556mm/

cheaper and it's military so it mist be good , well they believe the media hype as much as the media

FMJ are bullets made backwards to get the best potential accuracy from them you want a SP or Hollow point ballistic point for accuracy you want weight forward and not a void under the jacket

fmj are formed nose to tail
SP & HP are formed tail to nose

rounds that work well on Deer like 64gr power points or even 55gr BTSP will do well on any flesh

your V-max rounds shoot nice but the bullets fragment fast and limit penetration , good if your the PD serving warrants in the trailer park , they take the trade off in limited penetration on target to limit penetration through trailers should the miss.

the 62gr green tips use a light weight steel tip to make them tail heavy , they flip and go tail first actually a lot of bullets do it is a matter of what velocity they make the turn at

flat base bullet plow tissue once they flip

People look at me like I'm crazy because I never really buy FMJ. Really no point in buying the stuff for me imo. At least no anymore. Used to hunt with FMJ killed stuff just fine as long as you took non traditional shots but after the 10th or so time of me missing something because I tried shooting something with a hunting round but I was zeroed for fmj I got beyond irritated and just decided I'll practice with what I'll hunt with. And I'm not under some big illusion/dream that I'll be trying to punch though body armor anytime soon

62 GR Green tips were designed to penetrate helmets and barriers however they tend to just punch a hole through flesh which is why there's been complaints about it's stopping power. The 55 grain fmj do not penetrate hard objects well however they tumble on impact in flesh creating devastating wounds. The fmj are great for practice as well as stocking up just in case.

Are you sure about that?

^^^This^^^

which part , that it makes them nose light because steel is lighter than lead , it may not be the stated reason , clearly as they are called penetrators and they are intended to pernitrate light armor at close range.
the 62gr green tips also tend to come apart nose from base just not reliably , nor do they always get a chance to flip but if you look at some gel tests they flip often about 4-8 inches in it is velocity dependent as I understand it to some extent.

we have known nose light bullets turn since WWI

or that nearly all bullets flip and finish going heavy tail forwards and we have known this since the Brits made the MKVII ammo in 1915 that used an aluminum nose lead tail with a jacket to hold them together. there was basically no reason to complicate a projectile with an aluminum nose lead tail and jacket other than to ride the letter of the Geneva convention but still make a more effective round on target.
it is an FMJ but it turns and runs through heavy end first unless it doesn't slow enough to turn

much like our 1:14 twist barrels in Vietnam intended or not made the 223 bullets conditionally stable.

when you shoot all lead 170gr 30-30 bullets or 44mag in deep snow they turn and go backwards come spring they are all facing the bench you shot them from.

when I have dug a bullet from the far side of a deer they are typically tail first against the hide on the far side

or another part I didn't think of.

You’re gonna wish you had M855 if you ever have to go up against any type of armor.

Your expanding stuff will be ineffective, at least in 5.56.

Even level 2 armor would be a tough customer for any type of expanding 5.56 projectile.

The 62 grain “green tip” is a more balanced bullet than any hollow point or modern polymer tipped projectile so I don’t know how it being “nose light” would contribute to anything. The reason FMJs have a reputation of “tumbling” or turning m, etc etc, is because they get a chance too. Your soft points, hollow points, polymer points etc would all do this as well, if they ever stayed together to do so. But they’re designed to expand, mushroom, or break apart. So they never get an opportunity to exhibit any of that behavior.

Yep, M855 will canoe heads, perforate chests, and fragment bone...Do not underestimate that round.

I always figured it was that a wounded individual requires more personnel then the dead.

left over WWI thinking and western world thinking

when radicalized there is no victory in a slow death in a hospital or of old age once patched up and crippled for life, you must die in battle to earn a warriors place in paradise and if they can take a few more out before they expire all the better possibly some higher station.

it is what lead us to go from 38LC to 45acp in the first place and to lesser extent 38spl fighting radicalized people in the Philippines during the Spanish American war.

then in 2003 some marine units got authorized to go back to 45acp thinking it would be better in Middle east fighting insurgents in Iraq and Taliban in Afghanistan. they ended up deciding it didn't do enough more than 9mm nato that it was a benefit to give up half the capacity.

Many FMJ military bullets are designed with the center of gravity off center.
This allows them to start tumbling at 300 meters.
Roy Vietnam 70-71, 11B4P

I suspect the fmj vs expanding bullet theories get cross threaded on what we have been taught about hunting bullets. For that we want expansion and DRT vs penciling a deer to wander off somewhere to die. But deer don't wear body armor.

On 9mm, recently started loading for 9mm and using some jhp bullets ,wanted to test for expansion. Looking around for a victim, had a large 1'd x 2'w x 3' tall bundle of damp, compressed peat moss. Very firm. First shot thru the 1' part went thru. Second shot thru the 2' wide side also went thru, as did the 3rd shot thru the 3' section. All the way thru and out the back. And that was a jhp. Conclusion........9mm is no joke. You don't want to get plugged by one.

Now for the public service announcement, for those reloading, a very good source for your bullets.........223 and 9mm. The 124 gr jhp (nukes) in 9mm are extremely popular these days.

https://www.rmrbullets.com/

My guess is that ppl panic buying 223 ammo don't even know what they're buying as long as it goes bang. And nobody wants to get hit by a bullet of any design.

The "Hague Declaration , part of the Geneva Convention banned the use of expanding bullets for use in warfare.

Does anyone follow rules in warfare? Our fed gubmint don't even follow their own rules.

Them 9mm will blow yer lungs right out of yer body don't ya know...... Thats why I carry a 357 Sig or 10mm .

Those M855 work well on hogs. The tumbling bullets work great in my experience. Blood trails aren’t the best but a good bullet with decent shot placement drops them within 30yds if not drt.

Have looked at a 357 Sig, and since it uses same bullets as 9mm, can't see that much difference between 357 Sig and a 9mm loaded to +P. Other than an additional 100 to 150 fps, and one costing about $1.50 per pop and the other about 20 cents, what am I missing?

Made in KS https://fortscottmunitions.com/coll...ducts/224-062-scp1-rifle-projectile-bulk

Barnes TSX bullets Nosler partitions and accubond all reliably expand and hold weight.

FMJ's can be pulled and replaced with a "Work" round, You see guy's selling the FMJ's all the time.

Anybody have a source for the green tip 62 grain projectiles for reloading?

Yup Click Here

Thank you sir!

Another source

https://www.topbrass-inc.com/collections/bullets

Now if looking to get massive tissue damage and major hemmoraging get the frangible bullets in areas not protected by armor

The "green tip" M855 & M856 ball and tracer rounds are a thing of the past for the military. Some units still might be using it for training/proficiency fire. However, the new 5.56mm round is the M855A1/M856A1 and has been for a couple years now.

Aren't those the ones that have been problematic with magazine & chamber scratching/wear?

Seems like I remember the bullets on those being super hard, but not sure.

My friend in Wyoming has loaded about 20,000 .223 in case he needs it.
One magazine he has holds a hundred rounds

Range brass can be a great find as long as willing to completely rework it, pocket reaming can be tedious and time consuming but when you can gather up 800 to 1000 pieces per trip worth the time and effort. And you must be either crazy or love it to do 10K plus on a single stage Rock Chucker.
Not criticizing his purchase but get pretty much same capacity with black electrical tape with 2 down 1 up and ho long does it really take to drop replace when already at the ready in hand just rotate bottom to top.

I want one of these. Nitrate some cotton tshirts. Make cartridges of grape shot.

https://www.downrangecannons.com/sh...ull-size-reproduction-civil-war-cannons/

I don't know what all the fuss is about with the 223 and those dangerous black rifles