Traditional archery guys, this normal?

Have always shot split fingers if I didn't use a release but just hasn't been working. Thought it was the cheap arrows I bought and the fact my bare fingers where killing me after 50shots. Went on the shop got some nice arrows made and a stop installed along with finger savers and was still having problems with spit fingers. Said screw it and start trying three under and surprisingly started grouping way better. Only 12yd but you can see the difference. That being said I was trying to hit the cent target . Seems I just keep hitting high right for some reason. Guess I just need to aim low left.
Anyway
Split fingers

Three under


This kinda thing normal ? As in better groups by just changing finger placement?
Thanks

3 under puts the arrow closer to your eye, makes for less "space" between the arrow point and the target when aiming. Some guys "aim" by using a gap system, put the point of the arrow so many inches under the target for specific ranges.

I have two sight pins on my recurve.

Generally, hitting right (if you have good form and a good anchor under your eye) indicates a weak spine. You let go and the arrow bends to much and takes a right trajectory. Too stiff and it goes left.

Before you get crazy with all that though i would shoot a bit more and focus more on your form and less on your groups. This isnt compounds. YOU shoot the bow, and there is a lot involved from nocking the arrow all the way to loosing the arrow. Traditional archery is hard and it takes time. You seem committed to the shooting sports and have many facets dialed. Take your time with this one. You cant rush it.

What are your arrow specs?

Without sights, You are better off going with pure instinctive shooting. It involves doing everything the same every shot. Your eyes focused on where you want the arrow to hit. Your hands will dictate where the arrow ends up. It is amazing how that works. With one hand contacting your face at the same place every time, and the other fully extended on the bow is all that your hands need to remember to get you on target.
A classic example of how this works is for you to close your eyes and point at the hangnail on your big toe of your right foot, Open your eyes and you will see that it will be. I do not know how this works. I just know that it does, and knowing this will make you a better instinct shooter.
If not, then your hands need to ride the short bus to school.
I learned this invaluable method with a very small Nerf bow which shot standard Nerf ammo. It operated similar to a regular bow in principle, but was way to small for a face plant. I held it out away from my body and freed my mind of thought and let my hands do all of thinking.
It wasn't long before I got real good at it. What motivated me to even try this was that there was a house cat which I was trying to hit with it, Motivation indeed.
They funny this is, the cat didn't mind at all. It actually chased them down after I hit it numerous times. Then the children started crying and I was asked to go home.

This book will tell you what you need to know and it’s inexpensive.

^this

That book helped me a ton
20 yds with a Howard hill cheetah #60

Remember three things. A properly spined arrow goes exactly where it is pointed, and keep the arrow directly below (like plumb in carpentry) your eye, and the bow is just the thing the arrow sits on.

When the arrow is directly below your eye, windage is easy because you line up the arrow back and forth naturally. Then it is the elevation that you concentrate on most.

The bow does not factor in your sighting, other than to move the arrow. Concentrate on that arrow and “feeling” exactly where it is pointed then when it is pointed at what you want hit, let go. Bow cant (tilt) can vary quite a bit, and still the arrow goes right where it is pointed at the moment of release. I have arrowed deer with my bow nearly vertical and horizontal and even one laying down with my bow inches above the ground. It can absolutely be done with instinctive shooting.

Also make sure you are gripping the string just with the last bones in your fingers. Never past that that first joint.

I used to say I can outshoot any sighted compound shooter from odd positions, at flying targets, and put three arrows down range to a compounds one arrow. And I still say that, but now I add that there are exceptions where I am wrong. Tim Wells comes to mind. But I don’t think he uses much for sights, if anything. There are amazing talents that can shatter expectations.

Its all about consistency and hand eye coordination, dont over think it same as throwing a baseball no sight no though let the brain computer and your limbs take over. However you do need to have good equipment and proper spine weight of arrows.

Hmm I had considered this , spine and all but honestly I'm pretty lost in that so I thought it was me or then anything lol, by I think you might be on to something.
Shot about 80shots tonight and all together their grouping high right. Been watching the Lancaster bare bow tournament and studying them guys . Got my crawl adjusted about perfect I think, but I'm pretty sure I'm over bowed as wimpy as it sounds a 35-40lbs probably would have been a better choice because this 50lbs has me a little shaky if I hold it for too long

Anyhow Arrows ! I got two sets one is just some cheap ones I got off Amazon the others are Easton carbon legacies I got made today . They cut them down to 26 " with 100gr inserts if I remember right ? I'm honestly not sure. I love the Easton's but honestly they both shoot about the same it seems and the Amazon ones where only $30 for six vs the the $11 a pop for the Easton's.....but I mean cheaper then reloading , at least till to completely miss the target and skip your arrow into the cow pasture


But anyhow I'm having a ton of fun ( apparently I've been looking like I wanna murder someone though)! Been wanting to get into archery again for so long and it's just so nice to finally be able to do it

Lots of good advice on here already. You will have to find out what works for you. I shoot 3 under, I have split finger and just can’t get it to work for me. Some like to shoot the bow straight up and down, I like to can’t mine. I also don’t hold mine. When it gets to my anchor point it’s gone. For me it’s all one motion. Pick a spot, eyes on it, draw and release when my finger touches the corner of my mouth. Also work on your release, don’t let the string roll off your fingers. I like a hair tab, but there is a lot of different options out there. 50lbs is a lot to start with, but that’s at 28”. My guess is you’re about 45-46 pounds. Which is still a a lot to start with. To me I like to take a sheet of brown cardboard, no dots. Pick a spot and aim for that spot. Some people don’t shoot dots well.

Wolfie,

DT needs to know the spine for the arrows you have. At the weight you are pulling a 500 spine should probably be in the ball park. Even with 100gr inserts. But the picture APPEARS to show that the nock end of the arrow is to the left when in the target. That would indicate it is too weak of a spine. Try one arrow with a standard insert (about 15grs) and shoot it repeatedly to see if there is a difference.

Shooting a recurve or longbow LOOKS easy, but in reality it ain't.

Blak spot, what's in the coffee bag you're using for an arrow stop?, peatmoss? thanks

I started bow hunting about 1982. After a few years I began to shoot 3 fingers under What was more unusual about my set up was I was shooting a PSE Jet Flite round wheel bow and shooting it instinctive (no sights ) It was set up for 70 lbs I was using a slow heavy arrow It was a 2219 xx tat was 30 inches long .. As danvee posted It is instinctive It is like throwing a baseball . .I spent a lot of time just shooting arrow at tree stumps clumps of dirt etc I spent many hours and days shooting hundreds of arrow just to understand what my sight (no sight picture looked like .After a lot of practice. I got good at it I attended 3D shoots and walked the course with guys shooting releases ,slider pins and often range finders . And out to about 80 rds I was able to compete. But part of that was due to me not shooting at live animal targets beyond 50 yards . of that was due to the fact that wth my no sight set up I will also say that how I choose t set up an shoot my bow would not be the way I would encourage others to approach it . It takes some time to learn how it works. And IT MEANS YOU MUST BE WILLING TO PASS ON SHOTS THAT ARE NOT REALLY THE YPE OF SHOT YOU WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE .How ever I am pleased with the deer I have taken with theses methods And t am proud of them

I learned to shoot a bow as a kid. fiberglass recurve. No sights not even a nock clip on the string. i still cant shoot a compound. I shot right handed but I am left eye dominant. Cant sight down the arrow. Just point and shoot. At first I pinched the arrow with my thumb and pointer finger. Was tough. Uncle told me to use three fingers. one on top the nock two under. Worked lots better for for me. I suggest you pick one method and just keep shooting. Sights, instinct what ever works. Probably do better to choose mechanical or traditional and stick with it.

You need arrows that match the bow.

It’s called spine weight. 40/45....45/50 ...50/55 ...all I use is wooden arrows.

Don’t know a thing about metal arrows

My brother was righthanded but left eye dominant In one summer he learned to shot left handed It was slow going at first .But than it seemed like it clicked and what a difference it was . He became constantly accurate plus his shots at longer range became much better . I was amazed at how much improvement switching hands made and how quickly that happened.

Aside from all the correct info given here Are you holding and following thru with the shot or moving your bowhand to see where you hit
Second would be the bow weight is heavier then your used to and your hand is moving off point of aim both results in good grouping but off point of aim

Old coffee grinds! just kidding. I took the bag to Walmart where they keep the box for recycling plastic bags and stuffed it as full as I could get it, packed it in good. Then sewed it up

All 400 spine. Sorry thought I said that with all the other info

Seems odd with such a short arrow and a fairly stiff spine you are shooting right. Can you take a photo of your rest. Whats the shelf of the riser look like?

Sure , I can take a while video of me shooting it if you'd like just tell me what you need to see and what angle

Where are you holding the string? Where on your fingers?

I don't see any shelf pad or strike plate so that arrow is bouncing off hard wood. Get rid of the rubber finger things and replace with a proper nock point, get a calf hair tab to save your fingers. Nock your arrow under the nock point. You mentioned taking 50 or more shots in a session. Half a dozen good shots two or three times a day will get you a lot farther quicker. Shoot one arrow and then go get it, repeat a half dozen times. Starting out you should really be going through the blind bale routine. Shoot at 8 to 10 FEET. It develops form which at this point from what I can see in your video is somewhat lacking. Your forearm needs to be in line with the shaft. When at full draw you should be squeezing your shoulder blades together. Once you have your form then you can start bare shaft shooting to figure out what spine shafting you need.

As a rule most recurves will lose 2 1/2 to 3 pounds in draw weight per inch under their spec weight. On average a recurve shooters draw length will be 1 to 1 1/2 inches shorter than their compound draw length. So a little math tells me you could be drawing as little as 41#. Plenty enough to get a complete pass through on the rib cage of a deer using a two blade cut on contact head like a Magnus Stinger.

PM me if you have any questions. I've been shooting traditional for 60 plus years.

Ok been getting a lot of advice from a lot of people and think I'm getting better and able to at least hit center every few now

Well that ain’t the issue

This is what it's like oh if the box but just added some Velcro to it

Also does this arrow look like it's flying right ?

Try that shot again. But this time cant your bow a little. Do you have any arrows with a little weaker spine
? Or a little longer will also make them a little weaker.

No not yet ,all my arrows for this bow are 400 spine

Get ya a 3-under tab and go with it.

Honestly don't know about tabs and forgot to order a glove with this bow and the arrows so had to use the finger savers because by the time I got a glove in if be going back on the boat. Kinda miffed no one withing 100mi had trad stuff in stock.will say though kinda worried about ordering a glove . I wear a women's small in work gloves so have a feeling getting a glove that will fit will be a pain
Would have been nice if I could have found a pice of leather to make a tab but no luck there

The top tab is a style i made that works for me. I shoot modified split which is the two fingers under on the string, index finger points straight ahead, anchor the well of my thumb and index over my cheek bone. Reason i show this photo is the bottom tab is a beater. You can make one from a scrap piece of leather in no time. Gake that god awful thing off the string. Set your nock 1/2” higher than the shelf for a start


Looks like the velcro is an improvement. I also use beavertail for this
Lots of fiddling to do with trad bows. Bareshafting is a good thing to do too. Keep experimenting. Let us know how you progress

So took some advice from Matt and added a few more pics of Velcro to basically push my arrow over and seems to be working only 7yd (22f to be exact )but still



Really wanna shoot more ....but my fingers really friggen hurt guess I'll call it a night......or idk my compound looks a little lonely

Interesting if I can fine a piece of leather tomorrow I'll try and make one of those. Honestly the whole constant fiddling thing is perfect for me.if you give me something that works perfect automatically I'll usually either say neat and put it on the wall and no touch it again till I need it , loose interest, or wat usually happens is I try and tear it apart and modify it Gotta love ADHD

Im the same way.

That one photo i showed is the beavertail on the rest and generally one layer does me fine. I do have one short recurve that is very temperamental and i had to push the riser out like you did. I use contact cement for the leather and i stacked some hard leather underneath until it pushed me to center. I like what you did but from personal experience, the velcro wears quickly and the way you packed it out might mash over time. Im sure youll find a solution.

Next youll start making your own arrows. You’re screwed!

Nice D. T. !

Makes no difference unless you're "aiming" some way such as point of aim. I've always shot split fingers useing a boot tongue tab. Pick one and stay with it. Your "instincts " will sort it out if you shoot enough. Takes alot of practice to stay proficient in trad archery. More time than I can devote these days I'm afraid. So after 45 years of longbows, selfbows, and recurve, I bought a compound this summer. Don't feel like bowhunting to me, but I get to get in the woods 3 days from now.

A couple observations. First off judging by the Amazon arrows you say are 28” long you really are only drawing 23-24” at the most so probably only 40#, which is still plenty. Your arrows being 400 spine are way, way too stiff plus if you are using 100 grain points they act even stiffer. Best advice is to get weaker spined arrows such as size 600’s or 500’s. Or you can use heavier grain field points like 200 grains which will weaken the spine.

It appears to me that your brace height may be too low. On those Black Hunters you should be at least 7.5”-8” max. That measurement is taken from the throat of the grip to the string. Twisting up the string will increase the brace height which should help with arrow flight.

Those Black Hunters are cut past center so with no shelf and sight window material on it and the carbon arrows with a low brace height may be causing most of your problems. I’ve had to build out the sight window of my Black Hunters to get better arrow flight. Building out the sight window like you did looks like it helped but looks like you may have gone too far.

R U closing your left eye when shooting? Most people shooting without sights use both eyes open.

If the nocks on the Eastons are too loose just pinch them together some, that should help.

The strings that come new with the Black Hunters are notoriously not very good and might be something you will want to change at a latter date.