New coyote rifle

We have gotten into night hunting pretty regularly now. Found it’s something that I enjoy very much. Here in W.V we are limited to .22 calibers or smaller for night hunting. For shotguns it’s nothing larger than # 2 shot. We have been running .223s. We are using Barnes 55 gr or 64 grain sierra’s. We have found that unless we break a lot of bone, they are a little lacking. In some areas even with a good shot, they make it to the brush. Looking for something with a little more bullet weight. So far we have come up with the .224 Valkyrie running 88 or 90 grain bullets. Has anyone used this combo and what are the pros and cons of it. Thanks

Look at a 55 grain spritzer . Plus if you hand load why not step up to 22-250 ? But why worry if they get into brush ? Hides are worthless. Fourth rib forward and that 55 spritzer 99.9 ain’t leaving the feild !
My son killed his first 5 deer with that bullet out of a 222 . Granted 3 heart and a 2 neck shot . One buck went about 30 yards

What’s up with the limit on shot size to #2? Is West Virginia running out of deer? Copper platted BB’s are a lethal load in tight country on coyotes. Who comes up with these laws??

Jbyrd63 is right, 22-250 is an awesome coyote caliber.

.45 gr HP in my .22-250 they don't run off much. Pretty fur friendly most of the time as well. Although they don't go far with Hornady 55gr HP in .223 either. I think it may have to do more the style of the bullet than weight on the .223. I had a .204 that was very accurate but I didn't like the results with the 32 gr ammo and didn't want to go heavier since I bought it for it's speed and ultra low recoil so I could see the impact in the scope, which was impressive with the splash they had.

His first deer 24years ago 222 with 55 grain Sierra spitzer

A heavier bullet isn't the answer. You need a better expanding bullet.

Not to be argumentative but the most damage I’ve seen was with ballistic tipped bullets.. I should qualify, my experience is with a .243, sorry for the confusion.

We plenty of deer. Not sure who makes up the laws, but what government agencies make any good ones. But it’s better than it was. Up until a few years ago, a 22 mag was big as you could use. I have the shotgun pretty well figured out. Running 1 1/2 oz of TSS # 4 it’s wicked what it does to them.

We have tired several different bullets. Ran about all weights of the Vmax. Was not overly impressed with the performance of them. Some would be stone dead and others would splash, take multiple shots. The sierra game changer is one of the better ones we have found. I was wondering about the 22-250, but was thinking it’s the same bullet just a little faster. But that may make all the difference. Our test media is just dead coyotes, shot with different rounds. See what seems to do better.

We like to find them for several reasons. A lot of the people we hunt on don’t want dead coyotes stinking
up the place. They like to see what we kill. Other times it’s a tournament format and they have to be weighed in.

try the 223 with a 60 gr v-max or a 55-60 gr berger.

If your 223 has a fast enough twist, I’d recommend the Sierra Tipped Matchking in 69 or 77 grains. If you can find them. I shoot the 77’s in my 1/8 twist 223 and I’ve had excellent results on coyotes and deer.
If your looking at a new rifle, Tikka makes a T3x in 22-250 that has a 1/8 twist. That rifle shooting 88 ELD-M’s has gained a good reputation as of late. I don’t have any first hand experience with the 22-250, but I think it would be a hammer for you.
This is all IMO. Hope it helps. Thanks

A 22-250 with a 55 gr SP bullet will kill any coyote in it's tracks if you can shoot straight. I am not a fan of V-Max bullets. I do use Hornady SP bullets, however.

Keeping the .223 you may want to try a 53gr Hornady Vmax. A good guy here got me spitting those out the barrel and I think they are quite impressive. Night shooting is not the greatest fur friendly type of hunting if that’s what you enjoy but even in daylight they don’t always give you the perfect pose for a fur friendly trigger pull. I’d go lighter and more expansive.
In this area those Hornadys can be found under 20.00 a box and dropping.

Osky

I mentioned the 55 gr only because I know it works . For fur friendly on foxes out of the 222 I shoot a 50 gr hornady SX no exit on most foxes . Never used it on a coyote.


V MAX. Overrated

Yep

50 or 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips
52 gr Sierra HPBT

Those are my first through third choices in .224 bullets.

Same here in a 22-250. I never pushed the load till I saw signs of over pressure but I load them within a grain of published max load on Hodgdons site. I use IMR4895 and its a nickle shooter at 100.

x3

That is a good coyote load no doubt, even out to 70-75 yards. I like shooting 3's in case they get a little further. 3's will kill past 90

.22 250 with 52 grain Speer hollow point on top of 38 grains of H-380. I also use the blue Barnes Burner bullets in 50 grain- if I can find them.

The speed of the .22 250 adds way more shock to the coyotes system. I used a 40 grain bullet for years but they didn't have the guts to be reliable over 350 yards. A coyote shot in the chest from 100 to 300 yards with a 40 grain Hornady ballistic tipped bullet does not take one more step. I's light out right now. The .223 is good but if you are looking for superior knock down power the .22 250 / .220 swift is phenomenal. See if someone has one you can borrow? The first two bullets I mentioned will go through them from any angle. They go so fast the shock wave going through their brain knocks them out if it doesn't outright kill them. If you get over 50 yards they all poop out too much to expand much but they will still die if you get one in the right spot.

When I was young I was always looking for something '' better'' but now after 40 years of shooting the .22 250 I am most comfortable with it because I can get reloading supplies for just about any load for it since it is common.

yep 50 or 55 grain nosler and good shot placement there DRT .

I shoot a lot of dogs for my own use, for hats and selling the pelts to others who want to use them for their own for things
because they can't or don't want to take the time to hunt them.

I don't need fur busted up, I used to shoot my 22-250 for many years, have shot all kinds of bullets out of them as I load my own
and learned quickly to stop using any semblance of a frangible bullet, because of the sewing needed to have them tanned. Only shoot solids now with it, 55 grains boat tails, nothing moves after it's hit with them due to the shock it supplies.

I also stopped using the 250 when I won a 204 Ruger in a raffle, love this caliber for staying on target when you pull the trigger.
although I have not loaded any solids yet for it, I have as of yet not had enough pelt damage due to picking my shot with the frangible's sold for this caliber. I don't like these little grenades', and feel the the 204 out shines the 250 in most all ways for dogs at all ranges, with a solid for it, I would probably stop using the 250 all together.

The Hornady 55/60 grain SP are my go too bullets for 22 cal. I also use 40gr in 204 Ruger.
Most of the time they never go over 10 yards before they realize they are dead.
Roy

Heavier bullets are not going to make your 223 anchor coyotes better. Speed/velocity is the answer. Step up to the 22-250 and you'll see your runner/spinner percentages invert with drop dead on the spot numbers.

If you stick with the 223, go lighter and push them hard.

I'm not a huge fan of the 223 either and use to really like a swift or 22-250. Actually I still like both of them way more than will ever like the 223 but I generally only use them woodchuck shooting anymore. In more recent times, I've also become a 20 caliber fan. Which takes us to the next part---you are talking about night hunting specifically so I'd also be inclined to look at rounds that work nicely in AR platform. Not saying night gear doesnt work on other hunting setups but I find it matches ARs nicely and perhaps with less head aces. If pairing the gear isnt a huge issue for you, I'd likely put thermal on 22-250. And there is gear such as pulsars that are a little more traditional is style. At least to me there is alot of critter movement going on at night compared to day and you dont always have best shooting options. Something with some velocity behind it like the 22-250 is your friend. But the thing with ARs is some rounds fit much better than others which sorta drops some options out of the race. My next upper will likely be something like 20 practical. it does have limitations also; youre running the same 223 case and getting some more velocity vs less weight. however, i bet w.virginia is like here and doesnt lend itself much to long distance night shooting. i find a dog is best night time friend when it comes to locating what you shot at

Spot on

I would suggest forgetting the 223 and 224 and get a 22-250 or 22 creedmore and the nosler bullets Boone mentions if your goal is to anchor.

I will cast a positive vote for the 204 ruger. I almost always choose it over my 22-250 for shooting kiyutes.

I don't reload yet, may be forced to go that route. I love my 17 rem but ammo and even component availability are a problem.
Went to the 22-250. Last 2 years I haven't seen any ammo on a shelf except for Vmax, which ain't fur friendly in my opinion.

If you're not reloading and don't have components stockpiled to reload ... the 223 is an option. A light for caliber, sp bullets with speed is the only way to go, regardless of what you choose. But you got to watch the rifling rate of your firearm.

Listen to what Boone says. I like the 40gr Nosler BT loaded down to around 3600 also. Doesn't reach out like the heavier ones but very fur friendly. Also like the Barnes TSX loaded hot to where it shoots the best in your rifle.

Fur friendly on a west Virginia coyotes.

He don’t care about rubbed worthless fur ! He wants them to drop and not move ! Like Ky he can’t night hunt until fur is worthless. It’s predators control and coyote tournaments he’s participating in . 22 caliber is biggest legal bullet he can use . IMO 22-250 with 55 gr seirra spitzer will drop them and ANY of them hit mid section forward to end of the nose won’t flop out of sight . Millions of prairie dog , groundhogs, heck Deer have been killed before anyone thought of putting a peice of plastic on the tip of a bullet ! If he is going away from the 223 why move down to a 204 ? Will any of the mentioned bullets and calibers kill ? You bet ! But for less run offs and tracking jobs the 55 gr and 22-250 gives a lot more margin for error
In my opinion

Move down, because the 204 has more thump and thats what's need to stop his runaways, pretty simple !

According to my personal results and hundreds of coyotes I've witnessed being killed by others,
I nominate your post as the "worst" I've ever seen posted!!

What you wrote is equivalent to someone saying a Duke 1.5 is an awesome coyote trap.

Hard to believe but I actually agree with the Kentucky Orrical.

TSS to shoot a coyote? Sounds expensive

Thanks for all the replies. The general consensus is that I need a 22-50. Which is not a bad thing, who don’t need another rifle. Looking at uppers now, if I can find one. Will just go with a bolt gun. I am running a pulsar thermal, it looks like a normal rifle scope. So it would mount up just fine on a bolt gun. In the mean time I have some 50 and 55 grain bullets for my .223. I also found a couple boxes of the Hornady superformance 53 gr. Will see how thru shoot.

Jbyard is correct these coyotes are for control and fun, not fur. The last weekend’s tournament was 105 killed for 2 nights. Saving a deer/turkey one coyote at a time.

Far as TSS being expensive, it’s not cheap. But once again we are limited to nothing larger than #2 shot for night hunting. It works wonders I am shooting a 20 ga with 1 1/2 oz of #4s. I have not shot it past 50, but it has a good enough pattern. That I would not be afraid to try one at 60. At 40 and 50 yards it will pass broadside through a coyote. It’s 45.00 for 5 shots. So for what we can use, I think it’s worth the cost.

Gee BB don't hold back now LOL, did not know I needed your opinion on what I use or do, sorry send me your number and I will call next time for your permission to write on the forum !

I have to agree with GritGuy, 35gr and 40gr Berger puts them down right where they stand majority of the time.I really like the 204 over my 22-250 for coyotes out to 350 yards or so.
If shooting longer distance I move up to 6mm to do the job.

A .223 with a 50 gr nosler or hollow point

Soon as you mentioned "Solids "and "Shock", you lost all credibility.

A bullet that goes in and does not exit at all creates the least amount of damage, and the most shock, It takes a fair amount of velocity and solid hits to achieve those results.

This is true to some extent. But not worrying about damage and based on what his "real life" examples he wanted suggestions. The 55 grain spritzer is "old school bullet that I KNOW will anchor anything smaller than a 100 lb deer. It will drop any deer if shot placement is correct. No need for ballistic tips, micro coeffeicient statistics alloy dynamics , ect. Just get a 22-250 rifle . Find the load that suits it and put that 55 gr bullet to work.


I hear all this 204 204 . If it's so great (and could be) why didn't the 222 mag take off when it was introduced. Is it like the 6.5 man bun craze? Just needed enough people to fill the band wagon?
I've read the comparison articles between 204/ 22-250/ 220 swift. With the lighter bullet in the 204 it looks pretty limited to shot placement when anchoring a yote. Now I know this will trigger tails of thousands of yotes killed with 204. But I will also tell you millions have been killed with a 22lr. Think about that statement before you react. Around here that is what is used to remove one from a trap.......

And with that 22 250 get some needles and thread ready!

I shot and sewed a LOT of coyotes with my old 270. Its what I had. They look horrible when you roll them over. But skinned and washed its just a 3-4 inch long tear instead of a massive hole. With good shot placement and bullets 22-250 doesnt do that.

22-250 or 220 swift. Punch em in the ribs and they ain't going anywhere.

It also takes an incredibly specific bullet construction.

Which is rare. There’s a lot more poor coyote bullets out there than there is good ones.

Improper bullet construction and high velocity is a train wreck too.

Fur damage is subjective.

What one guy thinks is “blown up”, another thinks is tolerable.

Personally, I’ll happily sew quarter size holes all day if it means not chasing cripples, digging em out of holes or brush, or watching coyotes run 50-100 yards before they pile up wondering if they’re going to pile up, meanwhile potentially costing me a second coyote. Chasing one cripple could easily eat up a half hour. I can sew a LOT of inches in a half hour and it’s a lot less work!

And blah blah blah, shot placement. Not all hits are perfect, especially on long ones and runners.

Not to mention, in the current market, it’s a $25 finished coyote AT BEST! Most aren’t even worth the sweat equity hauling them back to the truck!

One of my favorite coyote bullets was/is the Hornady 52 gr Amax. Now I’m not a coyote whisperer that some here are, but I’ve shot a little north of a hundred over the years with this bullet in my 22-250 and have been extremely happy with the results. I have not tried the eld line as when I heard they were to be discontinued I bought enough Amal’s to allow me and my great great grandchildren to shoot all we would want…. Anyone else like these? Or have experience with the elf’s. As a bonus, it shoots bugholes out of my 788 and Sako both.

I’ve been shooting the 108 ELD-Ms in my 6 Creedmoor and am just tickled pink with them!

Shot about 110 with them from 50 yards to 641 yards. Had one that ran about 50 yards and piled up, and another that was alive still but anchored on the spot. Everybody else has been dead in their tracks.

And, while I wouldn’t call them a “fur bullet”, surprisingly not horrible for damage.

I have shot piles of coyotes with the 55gr ballistic tip boat tails out of my .243 over a very long time. Now that I have pretty much switched to the .223 for personal reasons I expect the same version of bullet in a lighter weight but somewhat similar speed will produce just fine.
In the end they are coyotes. If you twitch or they move at the wrong time you catch an edge and none are fur friendly. Oh well.
As Boone says a stitch or two big deal.

Osky

The most fur friendly coyote bullet is a dozen traps and a Death Ray

Not to mention the ELD-Ms shoot pretty nice. That’s a 400 yard group. <1/2 MOA groups if you do your part.

NOT MY THREAD but if you will read bunches of comments. HE CAN"T use anything bigger at night than a 22 cal. 243 and up illegal !! HE DOES NOT CARE if it blows then into 3 pieces !! He wants them DRT NTR because some are during yote tournaments. ! Pretty sure most of his shots are under 200 yards.
Ballistic tips/ v-max- are good bullets . ANY bullet will kill under right conditions My and others point is what caliber and which cheap PROVEN for decades bullet should he try that will drop them and have some margin of error since he is shooting during night time conditions......
55 gr spitzer was my suggestion after decades of ground hog / fox/ yote killing. hornady 50 sx was my next and only fur friendly bullet I ever needed. But that was out of 222....and used entirely on foxes.

.204 Ruger
If you’re a fur collector, this cartridge is where it’s at. Introduced in 2004, it was created by necking the .222 Rem. Mag. case down to .20 caliber. Light 32-grain bullets exit the muzzle at a sizzling 4,225 fps. Heavier 40-grain projectiles head downrange at 3,900 fps. Either will turn a coyote’s lights out right now, but you do need to place your shots well, since there’s just not a lot of bullet weight to wreak havoc on marginal hits.

[b][/b]


This is an article pushing for the 204. NOTICE what the writer is saying. This is what the OP is trying to get away from since he is having the problem with his 223 ..

The splashing hit are why I sold my .204. Softball sized holes on the entry side of the coyotes. That was using the 32gr stock ammo. I don't reload. Also I bought the .204 so I shoot that 4225 fps. and see the hits through the scope. I was not interested in heavier bullets. I shoot .22-250 with 45gr white box Winchester HP ammo and it shoots just under 4000fps and very little fur damage on most shots from 20-265 yards. I hope I could locate a few more boxes of it in the next few years.

There is just no way a .204 can anchor coyotes as well as a 250 ballistically.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/972955537

Thanks. I never have used those bidding sites unless there's a buy it now price. I may have to give it a try.

The goal is a dead coyote. IMHO the nosler is a better bullet than a vmax.

Only 5 hours left, give it a shot!

I agree

I only got splash hits with the 33 gr VMAX at4375 fps
You won't get that with other bullets

^evidently he did or he’d probably still have the gun I’d guess??

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/204-ruger-32-gr-v-max-superformance#!/

Anyway, back to the op. I hope that you have enough info to make a decision on. Hydrostatic shock is what most often gets the DRT effect you are looking for. Speed + energy dump is how this is accomplished, heavy for caliber bullets are good for extending a rifles range, not necessarily it’s killing ability

If you don't reload for the 204 your are going to have splash hits due to the only thing for them made right now, I can't find any around here without reloading are frangible's ! I believe one would see the difference is dropping dogs with solids once they tried it !
The 204 was made for long range gophers, however its an excellent round for dogs when used with solids, there is no doubt about that !
I stopped using my 250 because of the entrance and exit's were most times to excessive to take the time to sew up except when I could pick body or straight on shots, you can't always do this of course. However if your just knocking them down and don't care about that, the 250 is an excellent choice, except for staying on target when the trigger is pulled. Although that could be a debate thing as well, for picky people. It was distracting enough to me though for quick pickups when needed or doubles. I've now spent the capital to make myself a AR platform for another 204 and will to be able to get better quick shots.

It's just the bottom line of what one wants and how they get there, I reload and the 204 is hands down better for less damage with solids then even the 250 which is what I load for it now any time it gets used, for me. I've shot enough dogs as well to know the difference in dropping them.

So it is really up to the user to decide what's hands down best for their use, you don't reload use the 250, you reload get the solids for the 204 and see the difference your self, as in most everything else the end point is the one that counts, both will do the job, but you have to do your part for the end result !

Thanks for all the info. I am looking for a 22-250 upper right now. Seems to be a few out there. Any experience on which brand is better. I found a couple Bear creek but they are 1:14, I would like a 1:12 or 1:10 twist. For you guys shooting the 250, have you found one to be better than the other. I would also like at least a 20" barrel, better would be a 22 or 24" if I can find it. I have contacted a local company about building one, but have yet to hear back. If I don't find something I like, I will find a bolt gun that suits me. We are going out tomorrow night. I found a few boxes of .223 in the Hornady Superformance 53gr Vmax. They shoot well enough to do the job. I ordered a box of Fiocchi field dynamics in 40 gr, they claim 3650 FSP. Will have to see how they shoot. But that's about the fasted .223 load that I can find. It has good reviews. So that's the plan until I can find a 22-250 that suits my needs. Thanks again for all the advice.

If you go heavier, you will get a lot of damage. I don’t ave a 22 but I used my 6.5 cm with 95 grain vmax and the bullet sure anchored them. They are not fur friendly at all. The damage was impressive. I think it has 3300 fps mv….

For the Love of God!!.
Matt, get some 50_55 grain soft points or Nosler btips and go shoot coyotes.

My only experience with Bear Creek was two of their 350L uppers. I would NOT recommend them. I can't say on their 250 uppers, but research them online before you buy.

Tikka T3 in .22-250 is a great rifle. It is 1:14 twist.

If your not going to skin them, shoot whatever your rifle likes. Good time to experiment with all the loads mentioned above and report back to us.

I shot the 33 gr VMAX at 4375fps, it is a terrible coyote bullet, splash hits are common, they blow up on the fur sometimes, I prefer the tactical.20 for coyote, with a berger 35 gr

6.5 is too heavy to avoid fur damage. There are no bullets available that won't penetrate the off side of a coyote which is where most fur damage occurs. Stepping down a notch to a 243 and the light for caliber 55 grain Sierra Blitz King will not blow out the backside. If you stay off of the point of the shoulder bone and stay off the edges, the 55 grain SBK is incredibly and predictibly fur friendly. It never exits and it drops coyotes on the spot of impact. Any impact in front of the hips and behind the shoulder drops coyotes on the spot.

Tear through the sternum or the backline and you'll get large holes with anything.

But this is not a thread about 6/6.5 Creeds and 243's nor fur damage. In the weight class the OP is restricted to, the 22-250 is king for coyotes.