New scope

If you just bought a new Ruger American in 6.5 creedmore , what scope would you put on it for long range hunting ?

Not a long range gun , entry level rifle so any entry level scope will cover it.

it will shoot 1k, but is not a long range hunting rifle. if you want as close a comparison as you can get, the 6.5 CM case is almost identicle to the 250 savage. not a long range cartridge by any means.

Ok , are you talking a 3x9x40 ? What if a guy wants to shoot a coyote at 1000 yards , would a 4x12x42 or a 6.5x24x50 be more suitable?

ok, to shoot 1k, you need first the accuracy to do it, you need a rangefinder that will range a coyote to 1k (that starts with a leica 1200), you need a drop chart tuned to your trajectory and capable of adjusting for atmospheric conditions, lastly you need a scope that tracks well and has precise adjustments. I would reccomend a Nightforce 3.5x15 minimum

I's go with a 4-12 x 40 Leupold. They make a Creedmore version but I like a B&C reticle.

The Ruger American is a fine platform.........for what it was intended for. What you have recently purchased is a fine 400 yard and under deer/antelope, etc rifle. 1000 yard coyote ??? Not so much. Even between 400 yards and 600 yards a WHOOOOOOOOOLE lot of trajectory/drift/mirage difficulties arise when it comes to hitting small targets. Another 400 yards beyond that complicates things IMMENSELY.

Putting a $1K - $3K scope on a $500 rifle won't make it a 1000 yard varminter.

Lol, thanks everyone.

Curious why you think that? I happen to know of a gentleman that put a NightForce scope on this exact gun and can ring the bell at 1000yds. He bought it just to “plink” with, plus he has more money than sense, lol. Also hitting out there with a .308, 7mm, and .300. He hunts but just likes to plink more than anything. What’s funny is he’ll tell you straight up he doesn’t shoot anything alive past 300 yards.

How big is the bell he's ringing?

Most factory guns would be shooting minute of coyote plus at 1k.


Anyhow, Night force makes an excellent scope. I'd recommend them also if money is no object.

It’s about a 3’ diameter gong I guess. Or somewhere around that size. He built an elevated “shooting house” to shoot from. Has paper target stands out to 300 and gongs out to 1000. Didn’t ever say he was hitting a bullseye every shot, lol. At least not yet.

I have a friend that does the same with a 6.5 but not on a Ruger American. My son-in-law rang the bell last weekend (8”x8”)plate at 495 yards with his 30-30 , just for fun . That’s most of what I will be doing , I’ve killed a coyote at 760 yards with a .243 ( with a witness) lol . I want a heavier bullet for windy days .

I hear ya, pretty good shooting at that for what he has.

That was my next question, too. LOL !!!

I'm definitely not down-talking anyone's rifle. My daughter's first rifle was a Ruger American in .308 Win with a Burris 3-9x40. It is a good rifle. I'm no 1000 yard marksman, either. But I've played around at distance (along with some other pretty serious shooters) on many occasions. We all use highly accurized guns. But no race guns or heavy barrels. All sporter weight rifles in flat shooting chamberings. We shoot at an 8" round A514 (T1 armor plate gong. In my experience 500-600 yards is where the chaff gets separated from the grain.

If money is no object I would start with a rifle and cartridge more suited to 1000 yd work. That's not a criticism of the RA rifle or the 6.5 CM cartridge but rather a realistic assessment of what is needed to make ethical shots on game at 1000 yds. For the Ruger American in 6.5 CM I think a 2.5 -10 x 40 Trijicon Huron w/BDC reticle would be a reasonable match. The Huron lists on the Trijicon site for $699 but sells at $455 on Eurooptic. You might be able to find a good deal on a Vortex Viper w/BDC in 3-9x40, which would also be a good match. I got one recently from Sierra for $199. I prefer BDC reticles instead of dialing when hunting for a variety of reasons but find that their usefulness tops out around 600 yds with a 7mm Rem Mag and 500 yds with a 30-06. Beyond those ranges I would need a scope that tracks with a high degree of precision and that adds lots of $ to the cost. But also, beyond those ranges the retained energy has really dropped off and becomes marginal for big game.

Now that’s some impressive shooting with a 30-30!! I’d love to know the holdover on that, lol!

BDC's don't work at 1K

Always read how someone hit something X amount of yds away but never hear how many shots it took. 1out 5 or 10 or a 100 or a 1000? Misses count too.

Like most have said here, to consistently hit a coyote at 1k yards an off the shelf ruger American isn’t gonna cut it, no matter the caliber or scope choice. Even if you are a competition shooter, shooting from a bench, on a dead calm day, with a custom hand load, the tolerances on a production rifle like that are generally not tight enough to perform like that. I took my brothers AR15 in .223 with a 3x holographic sight and hit a gong many times at 800 yards, but I missed about as many times as I hit it. When I’m shooting at an animal I’m only shooting past 300 if it’s the buck of a lifetime and I know I can’t get any closer. Any further than 400 and I’m finding a way to get closer no matter what the animal is. Too much can happen in the time between a trigger pull and the bullet hitting the target out past 400 for me to be confident in that shot

I am partial to vortex optics myself, i have a 6-24x50 on my 6.5 and in my opinion you can’t get a better bang for your buck.

This is what works for me

you can see 2 turnkey custom rifles, along with the support system, a windmeter, a rangefinder, a handhelp computer that has all my load data stored in it. once I make my adjustments, I expect bullet impact to be within 1/2 moa at whatever the range.
These setups are not cheap, but in order to do what I do, I feel it is money well spent. This group is 3 shots at a lazered 752 yarrds.


this kind of practice and investments allows this to happen, this was the second shot taken at this deer, the first was a spotter shot to be sure I had correctly figured the drop and windage. this is one of 7 I have taken beyond 1000 yards.

RR

If u would be honest how many shots have you missed at deer at 1000+ yds
You say it was the second shot taken at that deer but the first was a spotter shot, does this mean the first wasn't actually shot at the deer but in the vicinity of to confirm u being dialed in? Or is a miss called a spotter shot?

2 misses, but when you calculate wrong at extreme range, you miss bad, and when you do on occasion make a bad hit, they do not run like they do when the muzzle blast is in their face, they walk a few steps and lay down. have never not recovered one that was hit, thats 7 beyond 1k and 54 beyond 450 yards. I am so confidant in my methodology that I have take 17 folks from 10 yo kids to collage girls to just hunters who want to learn and and let them shoot to 600 yards with only a couple misses occured, no deer were unrecovered. once you plot your trajectory, since it is in fact just simple math if the wind is managable if your bullet flight is correct at 300, 400, and 500. Then is has to be correct at 700, 800, and 900 if you have correctly tuned your drop chart.

You are correct, the first shot the aiming point was a rock 50 yards parralell of the deer because 1210 yards was the max I could range a deer with my rangefinder, and from previous days there I knew the deer was just over 100 yards past my max range of the LRF

Thanks for the insight. You must have a solid shooting platform and a very effective shooting process to take the human element out of the equation when dealing with what I'm assuming is other less experienced shooters to be able to accomplish what u stated. I personally am not an advocate of extreme range hunting but I do appreciate u sharing and giving some insight.

I shoot prone, off a bipod with rear support, once you have a method that works, its not as diffacult as folks who can't comprehend how the method works seem to think. I took 2 brothers once, they were like mid to late 30's, they each took a deer that evening at 550 and 575 yards. after the truck was loaded over a cold brew, they told me, "after seeing how you do it, I can't imagine having the confidance that you have in that rifle, it was so simple!" it was simple because of the work I had done tuning my drop chart to my actual trajectory.

Out of the 7 at 1000yds how many where "bad shots ". I don't have much experience with shooting outside typical hunting ranges but I have a boy that's in a wheelchair so mobility is limited. I got him a 270 and we have shot it out to 400 yds but it's seems like for us the human element influences our shots more than I would have expected. We have been shooting off a Lead Sled rest. We aren't looking for 800 yds shots but I want to take him out west to hunt mule deer and would like him to have the capability of around 400 yds if possible.

out of those 7 just 1, due to wind, 1/4 moa wind less would have been a briscuit hit, as it was was a bit far back, but she laid down after a few steps and died there. but 1/4 moa at 1350 yards is 3.5" add to it it is hard to determine the exact angle a deer is standing to you and the bullet impact was perfect but too far back to hit the lungs due to the angle but a liver hit is fatal but in my opinion was not a good hit.

Amazon has the Burris 4.5 x 14 x 42 scope on sale for

All my scopes but one are Leupolds, but I think the quality of several others may be narrowing the gap. Would be willing to try Meopta.,

Go to Kenny Jarret’s website to read his recommendations.

For the last 40 years all of my scopes have been and are Leupold.
They have been fantastic performers and I have been completely satisfied.
Out of many scopes, over all that time, and some I am still using that are that old, only one ever had a problem.
About 25 years ago when mounting a new scope on a new gun, there was no adjustment in the base and not enough movement to center the bullet impact.
I did not want to shim or modify either the gun or scope. I realized that the gun was a disappointment so sold/traded it and moved on. The scope was replaced.
To answer your question, I would select anything that suits your vision and need for magnification.
For my shooting, that distance is realistic and doable for shooting at targets, but not game.
As stated above, there is too much flight time allowing for movement resulting in a bad hit.

That's a great price on one of best value scopes.
LOL, mounting the one I picked up last week today.

Yep !!!

I've got one on a 5mm Remington Magnum. It's been a VERY solid performer. LOVE the Ballistic Plex reticle for that application.

No idea what kind of gun or loads you are shooting, but IMO anybody planning on heading on a mule deer hunt should be able to be comfortable taking a 400 yard shot with good conditions (rest, etc.). I don't consider anything under 400 yards long range, personally. Now I guide, so I realize a lot of people from back east have no place where they can shoot at those ranges and many of my clients show up for a hunt having never shot over 200 yards in their life, so long range is relative to a degree. But. . . if I was taking someone like your boy who can't walk, and had the ability to work with him before hand like you do? 600 yards is where I would like him to be comfortable shooting to with excellent conditions. I personally have shot a number of animals at farther than that (820 for an elk is my farthest, and I've only missed one animal over 600, a wolf at 1000). Out to 600 with the right equipment (rangefinder, quality scope that dials to hold "dead on", solid rest and/or bipod and a gun and load that reliably shoots MOA or less) and good conditions (ie no or minimal wind) anyone who practices semi-regularly and is a good shot at shorter ranges should be able to hit. Over 700 it becomes a whole nuther ballgame and all sorts of things that don't matter at closer ranges come into play.

I have never guided someone who was wheelchair bound, but have guided numerous, usually older, men who were limited in their mobility. Unfortunately all too many weren't comfortable shooting over 200 and most weren't comfortable beyond 300. As an elk guide I want all my hunters to be able to shoot 300 comfortably and expect them to be able to shoot 200. I realize many don't have the time or facilities to practice long range, but I think that is a reasonable expectation. And I always tell those who ask, if you can't hike, practice shooting! The longer your range the more versatile I can be and give you more opportunities.

Of course the hunter who brags at the dinner table that he is good to 500 is invariably the one who will miss a broadside shot at 100.

How do you even see a coyote at 1000? Would need glass of some sort. Then relocate it with a rangefinder, then do the math accounting for temperature, humidity and wind. Then look for the coyote again because it aint gonna be where it was when you started all that. Unless its sleeping. Then you wont see it anyway. Who dreams this stuff up?

It isn't just making the hit... How much "punch" is a 6.5 projectile going to have left at a grand?

Plugged a few numbers in the ballistic calculator...

156 gr Berger EOL Elite Hunter leaving the muzzle @2800 (I seriously doubt the reality of that velocity) will have a 1.95 second flight time to 1000 yards, 440 ft/lbs of energy @ 1k, and still be just supersonic at my elevation.

I'd be ok ringing steel with that... But fairly marginal for anything that has a pulse.

Not sure what a more realistic muzzle velocity for that weight of bullet would be... 2600 or 2650 maybe? Barrel length would play a part I guess. I'm not at all knowledgeable about the 6.5 platform.

At 2600 fps mv those numbers I showed above are even worse... Subsonic and 350 ft/lbs or so of energy at 1k.

Mike

Edit: Berger advertises 2680 fps mv with the 156 EOL... I'm guessing that's from a 24" barrel at sea level.

Danny the most diffacult thing about it is, spotting with binocs, then ranging, then getting the rifle on and the target in the scope, then you need a 1/2 to 1 second shot window, when you see by watching the targets body language that it will stand still long enough, most of my experience is deer hunting at 500-750 yards, 60% of the game you want to take a shot at just walk out of sight before all this happens. field hunting is different but hunting long range in the timber is quite frustrating, spotted a buck chasing does once at around 475, due to several other bucks keeping things stired up, I was over 5 hours before pulling the trigger.

I think at a thousand its more like 2 seconds of flight time with a 6.5 creedmore. Call him in closer and if that dont work set a few traps. If your going to kill a coyote do it quick. Not gut shot with very little bullet energy left, and no chance of running it down for shot two if it runs away from you and gets hid.

If you want to snipe at coyotes get a rifle that shoots a better cartridge and is built for that stuff. Then make sure YOU can make the shot. An expensive rifle with the right ammo with the right sight, still needs a human that can do it. I have seen plenty of guys that cant shoot a coon in the head consistently 20 yards off the ground in a tree.

Same thing goes for deer. If your going to do it I hope you shoot at those distances first. I have a hard time believing that there are very many guys reading this that can hit a paper plate, without a bench, first shot, from a thousand yards, no flags just hunting conditions, with ANY kind of consistency.

Beam Diviance. Makes its hardest to get good reading on coyotes and deer at ELR ranges. People alway wonder WHY I have a Vector 4 ? But those of yall that know ELR shooting know WHY. ALL my rifles wear Nightforces. My daughter 260 AI. Fires 140 beger bullets at almost 3000 fps. Keep in mind It all custom. Barrlein 1-8 gain twist barrel at 26 inch. Jewell trigger. HS stock. Trued Ren 700. Tubbs speed kit firing pins Saki extractor and on and own. Done get me start on what we got in it !!! BUT. At 1320 yars 3/4. Put all 10 shots on 10 inch gong. THIS is a true - 1/8 MOA gun. ES for 10 shots threw Magneto Speed or PVM is 8. YEP its a single digit ES gun ! Its does OK at 1 mile as well. YOU get into longrange hunting what you put in to it!!! Have killed tons of deer at 500 -600 yards. Several at 700 to 800 yards and 1 at 912 yards with custom 338 Lapua AI.

Steeltraps more power to ya. I know it can be done. Just know too not by many. Heck very few people want to spend that much money on a firearm.

If you want to shoot at a gong at a thousand with a cheap rifle in 6.5 creedmoor then by all means blaze away. Dont shoot at animals at that distance with that rifle though.

Danny. JBM ballistics is a great FREE tool for longrange shooting = So the Flight time is 1.12 seconds not 2 seconds. Now. Long flight time ? 375 Cheytec. 414 grain bullet 40 inch barrell 3200 fps. We took it out to 3616 yards on rock wall. And other large rocks. 7.893 seconds flight time!!! You can shoot from prone get up and see hills in spoting scope At almost 8 seconds it seams like for ever! 408 barrett custom is about same

Danny. In all seriousness DONT get a 6.5 creedmore Just get a 308. Load up OR buy 155 grain bullets. WHY creedmore is all advertising. The 308 same recoil. Cheap to shoot. Better barrell life Less tick to hand load. More bullet sellection then 6.5 bullets. The list goes on. It you are dead set and just want a 6.5 creedmore. Then get it BUT 308 is all you need for 1000 and less.

Danny. I feel VERY confident at 1000 yards or less WHEN i usw to deer hunt. I quit 2 years ago. Just to busy. Shooting is a fluid skill You must shoot ALOT to make the long shots. Back when i shot competion in F Class. I would put 6 to 7000 rds down range a year. Special Force shoot so good. Because they shoot 12-15 thound rounds a year down range. I have friend thats X Delta Force Lots of my ELR shooting comes from there. You MUST shoot alot AND be able to control you heart rate to shoot aniamal long range

A 4x16x50. Vortex PST if you can find a old 1 in a box is about 500.Gov Agency uses them. Their tuff AND i have take some out ti 1400 yards with that scope. Shoot measures targets = tracks well. Repeats 0 tuff scope for little money. Good cross hairs. Always level = some scopes have canted reticles. Leupold is Famous for the that

How do feel about SWFA and their fixed power stuff ?

Shooting long distance at a gong, rock wall, or targets is fun. I have always worked at analyzing the input to the shot, even drinking no to little caffeine before or during shooting. Same for anything sweet. Too many unwanted jitters. Growing up in a rural area with my own guns and a great friend, we pushed and coached each other to improve and excel. I have always worked at and succeeded at being an excellent marksman.

I have always practiced with gun, bow, shotgun, and handgun at distances farther than I would actually shoot an animal. It makes the closer shots seem easier and I have good confidence.

You guys sound expert enough that I would like to go shooting together so you could demonstrate your systems and equipment in action.

Best wishes!

If you want to see what can be done at long range go to http://www.ridgwayrifleclub.com/ and look at the varmint silhouette results . The guys that shoot there have some of the finest guns and scopes money can buy , and they know how to use them . The course of fire is quite interesting . There are some u tube videos of the matches if you care to look them up . I have shot in many matches at Ridgway over the last 40years but never this one . I shot a lot out to 500 meters . That was all offhand shooting . Never been a shoot from rest guy . They sometimes put the equipment list on the site for the varmint match . Lots of very high priced equipment . I did get to shoot one of the match founders rifles one day at the 1000 yard coyote targets . He was there testing loads ,and offered to let me have a go at it . Hit two for three with his coaching . Great fun . His rig was about $ 9,000 worth of stuff . Way out of my price range . Look the Ridgeway site up if you like long range . Some of you fellows sound like you might like to show your stuff at one of the matches .