FHA

First day of the FH online sale is in the books. Ranch mink, fisher, lynx, ranch fox. For the most part, nothing to write home about.

Coyote is first on the list tomorrow. 7 AM Eastern time. Then muskrat, raccoon, wild mink.

Beaver start the sale on Wednesday.

We'll find out tomorrow If GROENY ROCKS ,

Or not. LOL

walleyed

Summer sale slumps, not best time a year for sales , used get early fall check from nafa, about 1 st Nov from leftover stuff at good prices, not sure when it was sold but got me interested at that time a season in trapping

The clearance level on fisher was excellent. Not 100% but probably 85-90%. Price level on fisher, well that’s a different story.

FHA rocks. They are in business and their checks are good.

Thank you for the update on this.

When are the bobcats selling? I'm in Iowa now and won't be following closely the next few days

Bobcats sell on Thursday the 22nd. Sable and otter first, then bobcat. Starts about 930 North Bay time. Ends about 430 North Bay time. 1252 lots.

It is going to be a loooooong day. Sort of like watching paint dry. LOL

Not the 165.00 average of years past…..

Ha. ha. Not even close. Unfortunately.

They for sure have some market for good coon, I sold some for pretty good price.

Myside unfortunately you have yet to lived long enough to see a good price for your racoons.
are they 50-75$ range ?

LOL
Yeah thats for darn sure, no not 50-75.... now that would be good. Mine were closer to 20$ range LOL

Still thats not bad for todays market right?

If fur quantities clear there might be a little hope for next season. Maybe!??

I think that is wishful thinking. The important thing about clearance levels is WHO is buying the goods and WHY. Just saying………

Lets all take a second and give it up to wissmiss for listening and answering our complaints about FHA and the market LOL

For real though, thanks man!

Oh come on can't a person dream, maybe just a little.

I'm sure that she can give you her address and you can ship her a case of lobsters, once the season opens on the dock are they not going for 2$ each ?

lol
Season already came and went, there will be a later season though.
Right now it's going for about 15$ a pound or something like that whole, or processed knuckles, tails ect. for 50$ a pound.

Is there a link to watch the auctions live like they have done in the past?

No. This is not a live auction. No auctioneer. No bidders in the room. No video. No audio. It is all on line and controlled by a computer. It is like watching paint dry.

Only registered bidders have access to the “live” auction catalog.

Coyote have been selling for an hour. They are on page 6 of 34. Looks like another 5 hours or so of coyote. Then muskrat.

So far all the coyotes have sold.

Were many bids posted beforehand wissmiss or is most bidding occurred just before an item closes. How they’re doing this is interesting.

Most of the coyote lots on the first 6 pages had bids well before closing. I wasn’t paying that much attention so I don’t know if there were any last minute bids or not.

The way it is set up, you have to have your timing down just right if you are going to bid at the last minute. A lot of online auctions have a soft close. FHA has a hard close, which makes things a bit more complicated.

Now that FHA has had several online auctions, buyers are getting used to the system and are figuring out bidding strategies.

Bidding strategies??? I thought all the buyers hold hands and draw straws to decide who gets what lots at a basement level price..??

Just a little sarcasm. Before someone gets offended

One would think that’s a bit more difficult to do when remote, but who knows. I’m sure it’s a work in progress figuring how to game a new system lol

Wonder why they would not use a system that allows soft closing. All the online auctions I frequent have gone to that, can make a big difference in pricing.

i bet theres some unhappy buyers i know there is sellers just reading on here lol

I don’t know but might it have to do with the sophistication of their computer system and IT.

Does a soft close require more complex software?? Just asking.

I agree that a soft close would make things more interesting, especially on desirable lots/species.

wissmiss. Thanks for the time your spending keeping us informed. I hope The Boss will increase your salary. lol

I know that FHA wants to step away from online auctions back to in person auctions. Mark Downey has stated a couple times in different news articles that the online auction is temporary and his goal is to hold a in person auction when he can. So sounds like they will not be spending any money on upgrading the auction system they are using.

Thanks again for the insights

So, I know my lots and grades but would would come first to check out results 1) FHA folks updating the catalogs to show what sold, OR 2) FHA folks updating my account? I'm trying to figure out when I can go look at something to see what happened with my stuff. Thanks!

“Sold catalogs” are usually a couple weeks after the auction. Accounts are updated first, but often not immediately

Accounts are updated for lynx and fisher from yesterday. Lynx not where we want it but, like fisher, looks better than it has been.

Not familiar with on line auctions of any sort. Can someone explain the difference between "hard close" and "soft close" bidding.

I suspect it means a deadline or a shorter window for the bidders to get in their bid.

Around here, in online auctions, a soft close was conducted where a close time was posted, but if active bidding was occurring, the system would allow a two or three minute window to elapse before an actual close occurred. This way if two bidders were competing, one couldn’t win by simply entering a bid in the last seconds. The two active bidders could compete until one didn’t counter in a specific define time to the prior bid. Once that time elapsed then bidding was officially closed

Hard close is when the time runs out the auction is over, so with a hard close the last person that bids wins. With a soft close as the timer counts down bids "extend" the auction usually by 30 seconds or a minute. Soft close is like what you would see in an auction house where bidding keeps going till the high bid wins.

Might be some sort of soft close going on then cause guy on the Canadian forum talking about he had otter posted at $19 this AM and now $22.80. Either way otter price still sucks but price going in right direction like lynx and fisher. Saw some lynx results and looks up to me over last sale.

Have coon been auction yet

That’s just online bidding going on. Otter don’t close til Thursday I believe wissmiss said

Mine did the same thing on my account 19 to 22.80 but the otter where sold PT before the sale according to the lot numbers not being in the catalogue. Who knows maybe its them putting in the wrong number or maybe they did the conversion to CAD already. Will find out when the check is cut.

Is that US funny money sask?

Raccoon are selling right now. They are on page 14 of 43. Very limited interest. $2.00 to $3.00 seems to be the magic number.

Was there much interest in rats?

The 22.80 should be in USD still......they usually do not do the conversion till after the sale as you know.



Ouch!

X2 any idea how they looked for clearance and prices Nancy?

How did the lynx do ? Did all sell ?

I wonder if grony will post a video of them buying coon at fha?

Sales of Lynx were spotty. I didn’t really study the numbers.

Rats did ok. First 2 strings did not sell. Prices were $9.00 and $7.50. Third string sold at $6.50. Clearance was good on the sundry owner goods. Dealer lots with high limits did not sell.

The were a few raccoon that sold for more than $3.00. But no where near prices from the good old days. When they get to the third section, look out.......

Fisher did crappy. All my select Fisher sold for much less than others.

Next year you'll want to sell your lynx with the feet on. Skins with the feet still on and handled properly sold for 50% more to double the average. This limited market will no doubt get flooded eventually. Not a good Lynx sale and little clearance.

I don’t think it will take much to flood the market for lynx with the feet on. A lot of guys in Alaska are already doing that. One thing it will do is drive the price down.

Law of supply and demand. Same as everything else in the speciality fur trade.

Would they have updated accounts already? All my stuff says, "Unsold, to be re-offered".

Some one said lynx and fisher were updated. They sold yesterday. Might see today’s species updated tonight, once the day is finished. Coyotes, muskrat, raccoon.

Just had a little closer look Jeff. Buddy of mine had 4/8 sell lynx. The better 4 were unsold. Grade for grade (grade, size, colour and wt.) price was 7% over same lots in April sale. Hard to say w such limited data but perhaps not so improved as my first impression. See what else comes out.

Thanks for the updates.

Can anyone shed some light on what the fisher sold for?

$33.00 to $5.00. And every where in between.

Thank you.

just checked ....my fisher sold for $33

If the higher end rats did not sell it must still be a bigger rat liner market. Also if the dealer lots are not selling that means there may be a lot of rat money tied up in unsold rats come this fall when the season gets going.
2-4 dollar coons. Hard to comprehend but it is what it is. Wow and xl fall rat worth more then a 4xl average WI coon.. Hard to get one's head around that but markets are what they are markets or the lack there of.
I had only 10 rats but nothing posted yet, nor on the coons.
Bryce

How do you know those particulars if you haven't seen your account updated...?

We will see but I am guessing most did not sell. I had several 1-11 grade 3xl sell in the last sale that ranged from $3-$ depending upon color.

Bryce

Wissmiss, I was wondering what the top lot rats went for? Is it possible that they will still sell the unsold rats before the auction is over private treaty?

Ck. Wissmiss post of 2:13 PM yesterday for ur answer. Re. PT maybe WIssmiss knows if PT planned post-sale. Having said that the sale sells all year around if the price is right.

Just low grade coon sold ?

9 rats sold for an average of $5.92, my best rat was bought back. None of my coons sold, so can't do any comparisons and my very poor coyote did not sell either.

Bryce

Earlier I stated I had a 3X-2X SELECT D coyote sell for $12 before the auction Now on my account it says it did not sell.

My heavy coyotes brought a Benji each so Canada Goose didn't seem to matter much.

semi coyotes 40.

$3.89 avg on rats with quite a bit of spring damage.

MUSKRAT

LOT# DESCRIPTION STOCK # QTY PRICE EXTENDED

80047 3X-LG I-II 101080041 3 $5.25 $15.75


80162 3X-LG DGD 101080034 12 $4.80 $57.60



A price drop for damaged vs I-II on the big ones of nearly 20% but could have been more, interesting.

My account says I sold 10 mid-low grade coon. I'm not sure "sold" is the correct term but they are gone nonetheless.

I noticed that too, buyers where looking for size over quality.

It's a 20% drop but maybe the take away is the low price for the better big ones. Hopefully the better big ones get closer to $10-$12 or more soon!

I've gotten gray since the last good prices. Less grading on marten this sale. Pale, X pale sold together in lots. Maybe going to dye them all black?

Me too old man. Maybe black dye for all of us huh?

No, wait that's less than 10% price drop. 2nd cup of coffee now kicking in helping me wake up!lol

Probably not enough skins to break them up.
They are still running in the bush or in freezers.

Both my rats sold for 5.25 each

Still trying to sell beaver. Page 51 of 62. The agony is almost over. Hopefully wild fox will do better. Seems to be a fair amount of interest.

Friday will be the big day. The ZOO always gets a lot of attention. Should see a fair amount of last minute bidding.

That would be a refreshing breath of air. I sold mine privately this year but would love to see any uptick on those.

No no no. Beaver bad means castor good. Stay bad beaver!

Summer sales are half time ok, hard say what he like early next year , unless there buy low grade coon for $2-$4 an hope that sell better ones unsold now for that in future

Does anyone one want to admit in selling some coon at this auction...? I'm trying to determine if the accounts for coon have been updated or not. My breakdown was 42% select, 25% damaged, and 33% in between. So far, it says "unsold, to be re-offered" for all of them. Really, not even a few averages and better damaged didn't sell if it was mostly the cheap stuff that did sell??

Dang! It looks like my southern 2xl and larger are gonna avg more than midwest coon.....at Groeny anyway.

Is the FHA auction now over? If so, is pt selling still going on?? From their web site, it says, "follow us on facebook" and yet they haven't posted anything about this auction on facebook. Seems rather pointless...

The FH auction is still going on. They finished sable a bit ago and now are selling otter. After otter, then it is page after page after pan of bobcat.

Sale wraps up tomorrow with the ZOO.

Why are they selling fur so early in the day? Give people a chance to wake up and have a coffee first.

How did red fox do?

My account doesn’t show any beaver sold

wissmiss Will the computer bid automatically for buyers until their max bid is reached or if you put your max bid in that is what it goes too?

JP - it’s 5 o’clock somewhere. Sale has to start some time. Some days the sale rate is from
7 AM until 6 PM. Think of the guys in China that are bidding. Who knows what time it is there.

Here in north Idaho, the sale starts at 4 AM. It will take me a week to recover bit I’m mAnaging.

If you could provide the information for the price of the first 2 lots, I can figure out what prices were. Thanks!

Lol! It would take me a while to recover too!!

Goodness gracious I hope you aren't serious. When you posted this it was 8:30 our time, 9:30 Northbay time.

You do realize that Europe and China are 6 to 10 hours ahead of us?

Dirt- what species are you asking about?

Appears that the top lot of Marten brought $62 without steep drops in price per size and grade. maybe a 2/3 clearance, that's just a spitball guess at this point. Looks like an uptick in interest.

I just want to see western cats shine!! or at least show a glimmer of hope.

For what it is worth - the last lot of sable sold for 2.5 times the valuation. That should be encouraging news!!!

Good news if the "valuation" was $20

Bad news if the "valuation" was $2

They are on page 47 of 63 on the bobcat.

The first 3 1/3 pages - which are the Canadian bobcats - had very good clearance. After that,, not so much……….

Were you referring to lot # 294? That's the last lot in the catalog.

Yes. Lots 30294-30295. It is a string lot.

So not much interest in the western bobcats? I have 9 up there and would sure like to sell them.

I wouldn’t hold my breath. Hopefully you aren’t counting on that money to pay the mortgage!!

I haven’t studied the bobcat catalog, just glanced through it looking for numbers in a certain column. Those numbers are few and far between. Unfortunately.

Nancy, you're a "Glass is half full" person. I love an optimist!! At least for Marten.

Are the castor amount on one’s account page listed as pounds or ounces? When is castor normally sold?

Castor is usually sold PT after the auction. Some times a couple weeks after, depending on the buyers.

Nice, still holding on to a dozen beauties!!

After hear reports FHA in last 2 years an the bad times for them with sales with covid, I don't think interest ship nothing them unless pretty hot market on item, also it sounds like as a shipper an what can view sales or know what go on, they lack in what shippers can see in accts Communication compare to past nafa

My sentiments exactly. The communication on what is sold and the selling price shouldn't be a large ask for an auction company selling your goods. The lots sold and the price paid would seem an easy piece of info they could quickly provide.

I hope western bobcat and coyote do well. If fox and coyote do alright and bobcats don’t it may change how my line shapes up this season.

For your section of bobcat Bob I would sure be looking at selling at Fallon or Klamath Falls.

Really good advice here.

I would also add the Idaho sale in Glenn’s Ferry. They have 2 sales a year - January and March. They got great prices last season.

I’ve been a big supporter of OTC back to 1973, when I helped get it started. And I still am a big supporter. . Having said that, the Klamath sale hasn’t been that great the past 2 years. Covid cancelled it in 2020 and this year it was sort of lack luster, as far as buyer participation goes. I’m hoping that this is a temporary situation and that Klamath Falls can once again become the BIG end of season cleanup sale.

I always plan on selling at Fallon. I really hope they actually have a sale next March. If I could’ve taken my bobcat to Fallon last March i likely would have got $100+ more. I only had one to sell, so I just sold it at the pelt sealing in winnemucca.

Fallon is in February, Last week end usually!!

Yup, last full weekend of February for Fallon. Has been that weekend for 20 plus years, maybe longer. Most of the western trapping associations have their sales up so that there isn’t any conflict for the buyers. Makes things simple.

If you are looking for a March sale you’ve got -

OTC Prineville
ITA Glenn’s Ferry
OTC Klamath Falls

And some years Montana. Colorado and Utah are both in February.

You’re right, not March. Except this year, it didn’t happen at all.

Well my otter did pretty fair considering the last couple years… but they sold my freakin black rats PT for 4.50 … had 82 of them too. I’m perturbed… cheaper for them than any other rats bigger than medium. That’s BS in my opinion

I'll second that, I've sold my cats there the last two years and did good. Last year I held five I didn't get offered what I wanted and shipped to FHA, still have one or two up there, but got a fraction of what I was offered at Glenns Ferry for the ones that sold. This year I averaged over a hundred bucks higher than my minimum bid average at Glenns Ferry. On about 35 cats I got a $374 average after deducting commission.

Put up is a big deal on the auction, I think more important on the local auctions even than on the international ones, the buyers have more time to look the fur over and detect any flaws on a local auction than the graders do at an international auction where they are going through hundreds of thousands of furs. A buyer may come to a local auction and only need 50 nice cats, so he has two days to go over them with a fine tooth comb and pick out only the best to bid on.

Four of mine nine bobcats sold. $283 average. With the coyotes sold at last auction, that will keep me trapping another year.

That’s good to hear foxhunter. That’s enough to make a guy want to catch a few. Better go start scouting out some toilets

Mud; for the most part browns have out performed blacks for quite some time now. If You can put enough together You would do better selling to an end user.

WBG , the last couple years at least, the black rats have been at or near the top lot of rats in the auctions. Maybe things are suddenly changing but to sell a lot of 190 or so rats that low compared to the other rats seemed silly. If they averaged even in the ballpark of where they’ve been, it just cost me close to a couple hundred bucks. They sold my last batch for 7.00 in April. Maybe those 190 rats in that lit were gonna take up too much space waiting for the next auction cycle. Beats me. Next year, FHA won’t have as many black rats I reckon.

I’d love to know what the valuation was for that lot.

Sold my last cat 1x semi xpl spotted B. $275
Better than last sale average.
Think i will get after them some this year!

Sent 3 cats up and 12 dogs very pleased 2 of the cats blew me away smiling all the way to the bank! coyotes 72 each after commission.

when is the auction officially over, ....and when is the next one?....I only sold 3 of 35 beaver...I expected more clearance

The auction will end fairly soon. They are finishing up the ZOO catalog now. Maybe another hour at the most.

Next sale date has been not been set. Could be anytime from December 2021 to April 2022.

FH will regroup after this sale and then see what is happening in the fur trade and with covid. They will,probably announce a sale schedule in September or October

I’m glad to hear the prices on western coyote and bobcat aren’t in the toilet. Any word on reds and greys? And did they even offer any kit fox? I know the kits are a pretty niche market but they pay for a lot of gas on my line

I just checked the official schedule. The last lot is scheduled to close at 834 PM North Bay time today. That’s 534 PM north Idaho time.

It has been a long day for the computer program. 13.5 hours. Imagine if this was a live auction!!!

Are skunks and badgers selling well today?

Skunks sold 100%, according to my catalog, top of $25.00 on 4 skins. Next lot was $19.50.

Badgers did ok. $83.00 to $1.00. And don’t complain about $1.00 badger until you’ve seen the badger collection at an international auction.

Thanks for the info. Those 2 made up the bulk of my shipment so its good to see some movement.

This was a brutal Beaver and Coon sale, some items picked up somewhat, but most wild fur is still pretty tough to move except for the zoo.

I have to ask. Does the zoo have any thing to do with the fur market? It is a trinket / Taxidermy market from what I have seen.

The ZOO has very little to do with the fur market. Some times the top end wolves go to the fur trade. Same is true of top end badgers. And many years ago, ordinary color possums were a fur trade item.

But most of the ZOO goes to the craft/trinket/taxidermy trade. That is what feet are so important. And the feet need to be properly prepared.

When NAFA had live auctions, there could be less than a dozen buyers in the room and there would be more competition on wolves and bears than on in demand fur bearers.

Well just checked, out of two cats I've had sitting up there, one of them sold, for $395 before commission. Not what I was hoping for, but better than I was expecting. Frankly I wasn't expecting any nice cats to sell on an internet sale unless they sold at firesale prices. What it looks like is some furriers needed some good cats and decided that they had to take a chance, but they are only buying what they absolutely need before the next, hopefully live auction. So clearances are limited, but they knew they had to bid over FHA's minimum to get what they absolutely need. No competitive, go nuts bidding to produce those ridiculously high lots, but FHA didn't firesale them to get rid of them either.

Are results posted yet for public

Their web site says a full sale report will be posted Monday afternoon.

You will have to wait a little longer.

It will take them that long to drain a bottle of Chivas Regal 18 to have some creative writing skills worked up for the spin about this sale.

LOL. Possibly true.

Is that how they do it? I quit reading FHAs reports years ago unless I was in the right mood to get a laugh out of them instead of just higher blood pressure.

Not that NAFAs were any less creative, but I used to trust their numbers and I could look at the sales numbers and come to my own conclusions.

" Items such as fisher, sables, and otter realized price increases over April and strong clearances."

Pretty sure that marten prices are lower than April. Why must we lie?

castor [sold] prices are posted for me..thank God for the castor market!

We had 1 cat in the auction and it sold for $395 . Frankly, not unhappy with it considered it went unsold for so long.

So, can we ask how much castor went for?

Posted on their website. US dollars grades 1,2,3. $110,100, 90.

13 of my 17 coyotes were graded semi-heavy. Thought they'd have graded better than that but they are Wisconsin coyote. Averaged just under $20 before they took out their fees. This was from the April sale. I sold 1 of 6 on this sale for $10. Not the hot market I was hoping for. Apparently need to trap them for the deer hunters because they're not that fun to put up. LOL. I did sell one coon this sale for $2. I sure hope when Canada opens the border that prices go up. I've trapped over 50 years and this is the first year I'm having doubts about setting any.

Anybody care to share with us what they got for their otter?

And heavy Western type coyotes?

. I had some #1, and #2. Prices were as you posted.

Ask and ye shall receive

I got $100 hvy $40. semi

fixed it for you.
Squirrels only 1/2 of what they were in April 2021, same goes with marten
except the top and bottom bundles and that's the cherry picking new release.

Thanks. Kind of jealous of all them selects! Definitely looks like the interest is in the pale/light colored ones.

I had 4 squirrels there.....alll sold @$2

Wow coyotes from this area were all over the board. From $6 - $100. Mud those otter didn't look to bad compared to what they were a year ago.

It’s an improvement for sure. About double last year’s disaster. But those are very very good otter too. I believe the 5 were the top lot. Not certain on that but I believe misswiss stated 55.00 was the highest she saw.

The first string of otter did not sell. The second string sold for $55.00 - which would be the top lot. Good job have 5 otter in that string.

Next highest price I saw was $46.00. Then $43.00. And down from there.

Seems like on the better otter, the lighter colors were more “in demand” than the darker skins,

I still dare anyone to publish any sold coon lots. I had 16 different lots and not one lot sold. My break down was about 42% select, 25% damaged, and 33% in between. Most were North-Central, with 2 lots of Western Semi-Heavy. Just crazy that nothing sold, even for cheap.

P.S. Is FHA really tagging on $7 a pelt, any pelt, for handling fee to the buyer? If so, makes NAFA's handling fee per pelt a bargain for the buyers when they functioned....

Maybe FHA can dump them on groeny PT.

FHA buyer fees on raccoon are 8.2% of hammer price plus a $2.50 per pelt handling fee. Those fees are straight from the FH buyers letter.

Not sure you got $7.00

X 2. NonPCfed read the terms and conditions in the on line FHA catalogue. All laid out straight there on that subject.

N50: squirrel average April $1.71. Gibb just posted on Canadian forum he averaged $2.28 on 11/11 sold i.e. 33% more. Where you get the half price this sale?

And marten were not half either. Not great but not half either. See what sold catalogue looks like in a few wks., grade for grade, compared to April. FHA saying some increase - not so sure about that but we see lot for lot later.

I stand corrected on the pelt handling fee. I thought I saw that $7 number somewhere on this thread.

90772 2X II A-D 99090504 1 $1.50 $1.50

Don't worry they will sell them. You will not like it and they will say they did it to keep the doors open. You may get a check with no explanation until after the next shipping date has come and gone but they will have at least moved them for you and paid their bills. Then you may complain and hear others who have not been in your shoes tell you "you knew the risk when you sent them up there."

It will be a cold day before I ship any fur of mine out of this country period. I sold one of my coon that was left over for two dollars. It was a 3-4x I-II CD Western Heavy. LLL

Up market, down market, sell, hold, trap a lot, trap a little, trap this, don/t trap that. Nobody has a crystal ball. Throw in covid, oil prices, commies in the streets who knows what.
Sometimes I ship to auction sometimes I don't. I'm not trying to sell 1000's of anything much less in a dead ,market so I can't really syumpatyhize. But I try to keep an eye on things and if shipping looks good, then I ship. If shipping doesn't look good then I do something else.

Marten prices are down the typical 10 to 15% for the second major sale of a season for a Canadian auction. That is why I used to bust my arse to get them on the FEB/March sale.

I'm happy with the sale, thought yotes and cats did very well, castor also. I didn't send any fresh coon or beaver as I still have some pending a top dollar bid.

Thanks for posting NBWildKid! It looks like that was sort of a color grab bag of average 2xl Eastern coon. Good to know...

Sold Cat did real well but great cats, coyotes in the mid $70s and most of my coon top was $10 low $1.25 most were in the $3 dollar range.

http://www.furharvesters.com/results/2021/July/july21us.pdf

The bigger better coon from your section assuming S.D., sold in the high teens to low twenties. That said they had to be big western heavy coons. And............very few of those sold. It appears the Chinese were looking for cheap, cheap, $1-$4 coon sold a few.

90105 5X SELECT D 101090006 1 $19.00
90106 5X SELECT D 101090005 1 $19.00 $19.00
90149 4X SELECT D 101090012 3 $17.00 $51.00

Looks like you gotta have D color

Yeah, I didn't get any graded by FHA as "Western Heavy". I used to get about 30% graded that way at NAFA but this lot I shipped to FHA were also donated coon caught later in the season, so maybe there was a decline in fur density that got them graded North Central. However, at NAFA, a majority of my coon were also graded Northern-Central so perhaps its just my geography.

At least some coon were pushing north of $15...

Looks like the top lot rats changed to $7.50 wonder if they let some of those better goods go?

Some of the blacks went PT for 7.50. There was some confusion in the aftermath.

LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL.

I’ll leave it at that lol

Not sure what it takes to make a heavy Western coon but sent in over 40 and top was $10

Thanks.
That said, the first 2 strings remain unsold?

Far as I know nimzy. I have some in the second string still unsold.

Yea me too. Just wasn’t sure if PT would b posted
Thanks again

PT sales are usually posted to shipper accounts shortly after they happen. On line catalogs are not updated. At some point in a few weeks, a sold catalog will be posted on their web site.

Catching them in December would help. You may just be in a marginal coon section?

I won't keep any coon caught before 10 Nov and most of mine usually grade western heavy. Unlike most places, some of my best coon are caught in Feb and March.

Must have been heavy into the whisky.

"Marten sold over 90% at levels just shy of April 2021 and this item is not at the levels we want, it is however felt to be heading in the right direction"

That direction would have been down, correct? So much for the earlier spin about a price increase. I could tell in about 10 minutes prices were down. Sometimes, I wonder.

They are talking about the Overall direction upwards despite small blips on the way.
No need to wonder.

I've always considered My self an optimist, but anyone that can find any significant upward movement in any of this has Me beat by a long shot. Flat at best.

I always suspected boco was the fha spin committee chairman.

I'm officially unaffiliated.

First time!

Posted after the cat sale my very last cat sold for $275, happy it was gone.
Was posted on fha website for several days thru end of auction
Checked again on fox still there, cat shows no sale? What !
First time in 50 some years a renig!!!!! ??

Well, my beaver average is going down but I'm getting a few more sold PT. My LM and M gd dmg's moved for $4.50 and $2.50 respectively.

Still better than LL's good XXXL heavy coon!

. Kind of like saying a heart attack is better than cancer

The difference there is that they will never get the chance to sell another one of my coon. You will keep paying their bills one damaged beaver at a time. Send them a lot because at those prices they will need to sell a lot of them to keep the lights on so they can help move more fur for you. It is the perfect example of insanity when you expect different results while doing the same thing over and over. Carry on though. You can circle the bowl with them. LLL

I'm with you

Sorry LL, only meant to bring a smidgen of mirth to the discussion. LOL

I wasn't overly concerned with what I would get up at FHA as I already made my money on those beaver with castor, etc. Sold more of them at our local association sale but didn't make a bundle there either. As long as the castor market holds I'm still profitable going after them.

Why not mirth at your own self? I find nothing laughable but the auction itself. LLL

MD slight dmg beaver at auction $2.50........Groeny paid $2

You barely made out like a bandit on those knicked up beavers...lol

Was it really profitable to skin , stretch, dry, and ship a beaver hide for $2.50? Take the castor and chuck the beaver.

You're on!

Ha Ha Ha at me!!!!

I utilize the best I can, If I was worried about profit only, I would do more carpenter work.....sometimes we catch smaller beaver, the time and gas was already spent, after that it costs nothing to take them home and finish them, it's therapy for me

trap on

Now WissMiss?

My beaver averaged $19.63, but I only sold 15 out of 30 and one went for $46.00. They were all 2x-3x of various grades including some selects. Not good, but beaver take up a lot of freezer space and the castor paid well.

Well you did real good then…pat yourself on the back!!

^^^^^
That's crazy. I remember averaging $19 about 45 years ago and I think I was paying 45 cents a gallon for gas.

Oh at least it was a Belisle and the jaws bent.

my next season is going to focus and the stuff they told us not to send to auction like Red Squirrels @ 2.50 usd. Seems their (FHA) reverse psychology has an effect on the buyers.

Laughing at each others misfortunes (as well as our own) is what many of us trappers have done since way back. Sorry not everybody enjoys that.

I'm with you on this LL. Most prices are beyond pitiful, not including the current value of a dollar. Yet FHA with thier new NAFA former employees still try to spin seriously low offerings, poor clearances and record low prices in some positive way to try to get somebody to trap and ship them fur. It is laughable.

Sure prices suck for the most part but if FHA don't stay alive thru this mess then what we do when prices come back and no auction house left and just buyers like GFW?

I believe prices will come back to a better level, to be determined, despite the antis steady enroachment on us. Ranch product backlog getting used up and difficult to see most of them rushing back with the big investments those operations need + turn around time to built up their herds again. Our product can be put back on stream a lot quicker than rancher product.

Agree with crosspatch.
Trappers with registerd lines continue to trap to protect their investment when the market slumps.The ones that quit and sell out are older guys ready to retire from the bush life and cant keep up with the work to maintain a registered line.
Some will sit out or cut back and let helpers/family members take on more of the work.They will spend more time at their cabins picking berries fishing and hunting along with some trapping because they like the freedom of the bush.

X2

X3

You are talking about that DIRT guy, aren't you BOCO !!!!

I don’t believe anyone would argue the current state of the wild fur market. The debate may be on direction of the future. It is disappointing that the wild fur market basically flopped when recent mink sales have steadily increased. Not sure we can put that on FHA. Could be timing, covid restrictions, demand....

When you say trapping to protect your investment, you mean work for next to nothing for a decade so you might make some money for a couple of years before the cycle repeats. Trapping business is not a wise investment,

everyone acts like its the other guys fault fur is cheap everyone that has produced fur after it started going down has played a part in it and some have contributed more than others enjoy the market your the ones feeding it

They don't want to hear they are caught in thier own trap. That being said, this seems to be more of a lack of demand issue. Supply is way down on many items and yet.......... Supply may be at record low with record low prices on many items. No new markets like China and Russia to exploit like in the late 90's to increase demand this time. Other than the dollar value dropping, I am not sure why the price of fur is going to increase. We will see if ranch mink continues to climb, or if supply will meet demand and keep ranch mink prices in the $40 $50 range.

I think many are playing the freezer strategy. When and if prices rise to an acceptable level ( if they don't lower thier standards) their will be a glut and prices will drop again for awhile. At least on my product.

Russians use as much fur today as they ever did.Fur goes thru many countries to get to the end users.
Problems are with covid restrictions,politically motivated trade barriers and trade wars,all affecting the movement of, and access to, fur goods,all thru the supply chain to the end users- creating roadblocks for the people who want the product.
When these problems get rectified,wild fur will spike substantially in price to meet the demand that currently exists but cannot be met.
The demand here locally is similar to other areas like Russia who use fur for warmth in winter-that demand for utility fur has not changed.It has been steady for years.

Anyone know what the buyers fees are, per pelt?

So if demand in russsia is the same explain to me how we go from 2.5 million coon harvested and sold every year averaging well over $20 to csntngive 250,000 away?

Re read what I wrote slowly.
Supply chain is fractured from stupid politics(trade barriers) and covid.

Buyers pay a commission of 8.2 % on the hammer,price. And a per pelt handling fee that ranges from 35 cents to $100.00, depending on species. I have a chart, just need to figure out how to post it.

Most species like fox, raccoon, beaver, the pelt fee is about $3.00. So a buyer pays $2.00 for a small beaver, it actually costs him $5.16. That’s a big difference.

So Nancy am I doing this correctly? A $5 rat has an 18.2% commission or .182 xs $5 or 91 cents plus say 35 cents or a total fee for a $5 rat of $1.26 or an actual total revenue per $5 rat of $25.2 %

On a $12 coon there is .182 times $12 or 2.18 plus $3 or 5.12 or 42.6%? The pelt charges may be off as I don't know the exact per species but I can now see why there is a very limited coon market when $5 coons cost a buyer $8.50.

Thank you for the data as it gives more insight as to how fur moves through the system. Also am beginning to see where NAFA with the ranch mink may have been able to subsidize wild fur or at least spread costs over more volume etc.

Bryce

recalculate your formula bbwi

So it sound it this point like wild fur well be down in price from a season ago on coon especally is what wonder about as the main thing trap for ? I like do some trapping but rember it a very expensive hobby an try make trips count as not travel as much come up with high gas prices an things on vechile wear out , well be watching closely who says anything about my post as at had decide to be lurker an not try logging nomore than very rarely , as this site others, online bully's just lurk an watch every post i make an others not members on here that ppl knowe , wat h I say an time I post an loggin an things an not really like just anyone see that, I really think u should have be member to even look anything on here, such as ppl where I work , some them spy on me

Bryce - you have a wrong number. The buyer commission is 8.2%. You are using 18.2 %.

Hammer price = $5.00

8.2% commission = .41

Packing fee = .60

Total buyer cost = $6.01. And that muskrat is still in the North Bay warehouse. Now you have to add shipping and customs fees, etc.

In my original post, I said the muskrat handling fee is 35 cents. Before making this post, I checked the fee schedule and it is 60 cents. My BAD.

So if FH sells 60,000 muskrats. The packing fees alone are $36,000.00

FHA double dipping aint helping us trappers out.

I know I am out of the loop -- but have been considering shipping some to fha next year --- what are the fees to the sellers?

I was using the .182 as the total and it should be .192 for the total percentage of commission for seller and buyer. I did use the .082 for the cost to the buyer. I was trying to get close to the revenue the FHA takes in on a pelt.
Sorry for the confusion and wrong setup. The $5 coon uses the 8.2 and the $3. So the FHA takes in $3 plus total commission of 91 cents or nearly $4 for each $5 coon.
With some coon selling for $1.50 they still take in over $3 moving those pelts.

Bryce

I was using the .182 as the total and it should be .192 for the total percentage of commission for seller and buyer. I did use the .082 for the cost to the buyer. I was trying to get close to the revenue the FHA takes in on a pelt.
Sorry for the confusion and wrong setup. The $5 coon uses the 8.2 and the $3. So the FHA takes in $3 plus total commission of 91 cents or nearly $4 for each $5 coon.
With some coon selling for $1.50 they still take in over $3 moving those pelts.

Bryce

FHA may be “double dipping” BUT fees being charged to both shippers and buyers is not new. All the fur auction companies do/did it. NAFA, Helsinki, American Legend, Seattle Fur Exchange, Western Canadian - the list goes on.

Just saying……….

"Russians are dressing like Americans now a days. They don't need big heavy furs. They have synthetics like Gortex. " Quoting Gary Groenewald from the NTA convention a couple weeks ago.

I think you are wishful thinking Boco. Yes they are selling some high end cats to a few rich Russians but utilitarian fur is dead according to Gary who knows perhaps a bit more about the world fur trade than a Canadian bush trapper. Maybe not though. LLL

So at best, coon well be like last season it sound like

Actually I sell to the equivalent here in the north and the demand is very good and has not fluctuated.
People who work on the land especially native people use fur because it is warmer than any synthetic..

Maybe KOSOI can chime in and speak about the russian fur use in Siberia.I bet a dollar to a dime it has not changed.

Siberia is vast and sparse, and covers an area of over 13.1 million square kilometres (5,100,000 sq mi), but is home to merely one-fifth of Russia's entire population.

I thought you guys in Alaska sold a lot of fur locally as well to the fur sewers?

In reality, like Boco said, Russians are still into fur, nearly EVERYONE at the least has a fur hat. And it's not just the wealthy. BTW, they don't give a rat's tail about animal rights and nonsense like that.

If you want to sell anything to Russians, just tie Adidas to it somehow.
Maybe we could shear our beaver something like this.

Thank you.

I never knew they charged the buyers and that it was that much. I always asked myself why someone wouldnt buy an xxxl coon for 3 bucks.....welll it aint 3 bucks,

The math does not add up. Back in the 70s and 80s Russians bought coon. Lots of coon. In 2010 they started buying a bunch again. Until Chinese women start wearing fur as a utility type clothing, fur is done. There are synthetics that are warmer than fur and out last it. I don't like it but I am not sticking my head in the sand like some have. Keep sending fur to the auctions. Surely that will help. LLL

^^^^^^^
I have never worn anything warmer than fur; and I'm a big fan of synthetics.

Fur is warmer than synthetics, and will probably last longer.

so wissmiss why do you buy at the auction why not buy from trappers its always slayed me when coons got less than ten dollars i had a lot of guys tell me you can have them if thats all their worth i will throw them in the ditch first when other guys think they can get rich on them i never took any free coon id tell them to destroy them in hopes a lot more would do the same but theres always coons being offered for sale no matter what price

You sure we were selling coon to the Soviet Union? I thought the 70's and 80's fur market was the U.S.A. and Europe. The market was much deeper during the boom and you couldn't flood it. Harvest of most furbearers were at peaks with peak prices. 2010 harvests were still meager with nowhere near the coon prices in real dollars as during the boom. Russians like fur, but have no money. Since the Ukrane reprisal thier money is half valued against the dollar. A solid market requires a lot of people with a lot of money in a cold environment. The U.S. and Europe meet these requirements.


"The Soviet currency (ruble) was non-convertible after 1932 (when trade in gold-convertible chervonets, introduced by Lenin in the New Economic Policy years, was suspended) until the late 1980s. It was impossible (both for citizens and state-owned businesses) to freely buy or sell foreign currency even though the "exchange rate" was set and published regularly. Buying or selling foreign currency on a black market was a serious crime until the late 1980s. Individuals who were paid from abroad (for example writers whose books were published abroad) normally had to spend their currency in a foreign-currency-only chain of state-owned Beryozka ("Birch-tree") stores. Once a free conversion of currency was allowed, the exchange rate plummeted from its official values by almost a factor of 10."

"A good mink coat, for example, which could be bought for $3,000 in the 1960's, today carries a retail pricetag of more than $5,000. Wholesale prices of such furs as raccoon, Canadian lynx and Russian sable have doubled and, in some cases, tripled in the last four or five years.

A good‐quality raccoon coat that might have sold for $1,000 in the mid1970's, today retails at $3,000 and more. A sable coat can run $75,000 in a fur salon, while a garment of Russian lynx, one of the most expensive furs, may start at $50,000

."https://www.nytimes.com/1978/12/10/...their-boom-furriers.html]1970's fur boom

Dirt makes an interesting point so I did a quick search. Looks like we traded our wheat for commie vodka, caviar and sables. No mention of coon, but who knows?

United States[edit]
Trade between the United States and the Soviet Union
In 1987 total trade between the United States and the Soviet Union amounted to US$2 billion. The Soviet Union exported chemicals, metals (including gold), and petroleum products in addition to fur skins, alcoholic beverages, and fish products to the United States and received agricultural goods—mostly grain—and industrial equipment in return. The value of exports to the Soviet Union in 1987 amounted to US$1.5 billion, three-quarters of which consisted of agricultural products and one-quarter industrial equipment.[1]

.[1]

I traveled to France in the fall of 1978 and the amount of fur being worn on the street was astounding. I recall western Germany being a huge player as well and who drove the gray fox market during those years.

From what I hear the do-gooders have done away with those markets, as they have here. We now depend on China, Russia and other eastern block countries that have no money. I remember for years (after the supposed fall of communism) we were told that Russia would become a huge buyer of our fur once their people started to have disposable income.

In the 1920's after the world came out of the Spanish flu pandemic there was a huge increase in wealth and fur among other things did extremely well. I'm hoping that maybe something like that can happen for those areas of the world that still appreciate fur.

Guaranteed fur will cycle back high-always has and always will.
Its like the wabbling axis of the Earth affecting climate.Once everything lines up right or wrong you get the ups and downs.And definitely not a sine wave.

You maybe right but It seems to me when It's come back It's always of a lesser value then It was.

Not really if you look at the entire trade from the 1500.s to today there have been 3 or 4 very high peaks,and some where fur was almost valueless.The fur trade has also evolved and changed drastically back and forth with fashion,uses of fur and changes in technology.There are plenty of lesser ups and downs in between if that is what you mean.

I still don’t understand bocos statement before how Russia is still using a lot of fur? Where is it coming from and how are they getting it because it ain’t coon.

When I go through a broker at the auction I'm paying 12% together for the auction fee and the brokers fee, then a handling fee which can be costly, I think $8 per otter and $10 for a cat about $3 for a fox or coon. then a packing fee a customs broker fee for the inspection and to get fur back to the states, and then shipping fur from the U.S. border to me. It all amount to roughly 25-30% of hammer price.

That's not double dipping, it's barely paying the bills and wages, and probably not getting it done.

Russia uses all of their own utility fur domestically.They do export the high value stuff more nowadys.They are probably recycling older fur to do what they can until they can access our commercial type fur for cold weather utility hopefully in the near future.

The fact that Russia(historically a huge fur producer) could not meet their own domestic demand,led to extensive exploration and colonization of Siberia and Alaska and other parts of the northern pacific rim,just as the demand for fur in early europe could not be met domestically led to the exploration and colonization of Canada and some parts of the USA.

So it sounds like right now that coon prices an other wild fur the same or down from last season ? China wasn't interested in coon at sale at all ?

Could the same thing be said about those who trap, but aren't members of any trapping organizations or associations? I mean where do you draw the line?

Boco says "Not really if you look at the entire trade from the 1500.s to today there have been 3 or 4 very high peaks" So in 500 years there has been three or four peaks. On an average I would not count on another for 100 plus years.

Well then maybe they should raise it more in this time of prosperity? Its double dipping to me especially when I didnt know that they charged the buyers also. Honestly, how many shippers knew they charged the buyers? I attend a lot of local estate auctions and most of them dont charge a buyers premium- the seller only gets charged,

No one ever claimed the next real big one would be in our lifetimes.But I look forward to the smaller ones.

I was just pointing out there has been years and a large number of years without a high price. Some people act like it should be here next year or the year after. When most fur is about worthless, a small boost doesn't do much. I would bet a large amount of the fur that was sold at FHA will be on another sale there.

Lumberjack391: For years now the catalogue for buyers is posted on the FHA website. In the catalogue are posted the terms of sale to the buyers. Included in that are the fees to the buyers. Wide open for everyone, including trappers, to see on line before the sale. No secret.

Yup I read it on their website.

Lumberjack, the double commission is a scheme. They could just tell trappers the whole commission, but there is a marketing scheme to telling trappers the commission is 11 percent. Typical fur business ploy.

Its all money coming back into our auction house.

I imagine keeping a large international auction in the black is pretty spendy. Overhead a lot lower for the association sales.

Just in case anyone isn't aware, they charge for drumming and CITES fees too.

I can see it now if FHA charged a trapper 20 percent to ship. They'd be out of business.

Anybody who paid attention should have known they charge the buyer as well as the seller. I thought common knowledge they charged a percentage, I didn't realize they charged as high a per pelt fee as they do on top of it, but that is because it wasn't important to me, I'm not buying.

And every estate auction I have ever been to charged a percentage fee to the buyer, I always figure that into the price in my head when I'm bidding.

Now do I think their fees are high? Yeah, I do, but then I know what they are before I send fur up there, and I decide whether I want to send it or not. If they had more competition they maybe would try and cut costs and lower fees to be more attractive, but they don't have that competition right now and if things got too tight for them they might cut costs by not accepting furs that aren't selling for much are having very low clearances.

Sorry Boco, but it isn't "our auction house" it is a for profit business. Is it in our best interests as fur sellers for it to continue to stay in business? Yes it is. But it isn't "ours" we aren't getting a dividend check from them as shareholders.

Yes we do ,and it is ours,we started it and the rpc's intrest are paid when money is made above operating costs.Rpc's are not issued during the slumps of course.A decision made by the trappers BOD.
The board of directors elected by us trappers decides where the profits go every year.some years they go into the buisness to keep things running smooth and keep the building in good shape.
When prices were high back in the last peak we got a 50% return on our rpc's if you were smart enough to keep them invested with the company which most Ontario trappers did.

Nafa tried to copy the RPC program about 10 years after FHA.

I have some RPC certificates……wonder if Iam rich ?

See now I saw that money from NAFA, on the other hand I didn't know of anybody except those natives in Ontario who saw any money from FHA.

Well you dont know many then cause it was a huge payout last fur spike,like I said,guys had rpc's there since they implemented them around the early 90s.A substantial amount based on fur sales and most of us left them invested.I know some cashed theirs in as they got them but we here left them invested in our fur house and were rewarded nicely.
The board of directors will decide to issue rpc's again when the industry picks up again.
Regardless if paid out in intrest or re invested in the company or into fur promotion,its all for the good of us trappers who own the place.

Hey Mr. Boco... do y’all still have that beer with Sasquatch snowboarding down a mountain pictured on the label up there?

... called a kanoke or something like that? ... good stuff if I remember correctly

It is a outlet but awful slow especially now with any sales

Kokanee.

"Conditions of Sale - U.S.

1. FHA’s sales commission is 19.2%."

P.S. that is the commission this last sale. with out the adjectives Buyer and Seller put in front of two commissions which are added together..

Got a $7 handling fee on otter that average $23. That's pushing about 50%. Fee loading is where the profit is.

Several reasons. I should mention that I buy for the craft market, not the international fur market. And my needs are usually quite specific. ,most times I need a few pelts of a lot of different species.

Reason 1 - auctions like FH (and previously NAFA) offer just about every wild fur species available plus ranch mink and ranch fox. All in one place. Everything from ermine to wolves. I would have to do a LOT of traveling to buy all those different species I need.

Reason 2 - I’m usually looking for a specific size and grade. For example, I might need 50 medium size brown beaver that are slight damage. I can’t think of any one trapper that would have that quantity of that grade. Probably couldn’t do that even with 3 or 4 trappers. And if I could find that many pelts, most trappers want to sell their entire collection. Say a trapper has 75 beaver, all sizes and grades. 5 of those pelts are what I need. He wants to sell the whole bunch. What am I supposed to do with the other 70 pelts? Send them to FH and take my chances?? LOL

Reason 3 - you guys are going to scream about this reason. Price. I often shop in the Bargain Basement (Section III). On occasion I can use grade III red fox. I like to buy 100 or so at a time. I can buy them at FH for a buck or two (hammer price, before fees). Again, no one trapper is going to have that many of that grade and even if he did, he would scream like a banshee if I offered him $2.00. I can buy them at FH and not listen to the complaining and whining about how that pelt that I offered 2 bucks on is worth at least $15.00. FH can listen to the whining.

That about sums it up.

To give you an example of Reason 1. At one time, NAFA printed buyers invoices one species per page. And in beaver, each size got its own page. At one sale, the printer kept printing and printing and printing. When it was finished, my invoice was over 30 pages long!! Each page had just a lot or two or three and a lot of blank space.

Any questions???

And those CITES* fees are for lynx, bobcat, bears, otter, wolves and wolverine. Bunch of international grief that anybody moving those skins across international borders has to deal with. Back in the day when we used to sell wolves, otter, lynx and bears to German Air Force guys stationed here what a pile of paper work grief that was to deal with. Sympathy to whoever at FHA has to deal with thousands of those each year and understand the fee to the buyer for having to deal with that bureaucratic grief.

*Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. Skins we are trading in are not endangered but they look enough like those same species, in other countries where they are endangered, that ethical source traceability has to be assured. It is what it is.

There aren’t any CITES fees on wolverine. At least not yet…….

My bad lol. Tks Wissmiss for the correction.

I’d think that you could buy a heckuva lot of fur you’d need without all that fees and hoops to jump through with a phone call to a Weibke, Zanders, or a Barnes.

thanks wissmiss i pretty much knew your answer i was hoping you would explain so others on here would know how it worked a bigger selection is worth the extra money i might be wrong but im betting you have bought from of the state sales in your area also that have larger selections and fewer fees also thanks again

"Again, no one trapper is going to have that many of that grade and even if he did, he would scream like a banshee if I offered him $2.00. I can buy them at FH and not listen to the complaining and whining about how that pelt that I offered 2 bucks on is worth at least $15.00. "

Of course you probably make $25 off them.

Show your math.

Red Fox tail $24

Claw, antler, and Hide co

You forgot to deduct expenses and labor from the price of that tail. Nobody made $24 on it.

That is just the tail. There is a whole body left.

You failed business class, didn’t you?

That is why I trap coon.

Kinda like they scream bloody murder when Groeny has the dollar pile, but not a word when the auction houses sell them for a dollar.

And I don't blame her one bit, that's just good business on her part if the auction house sells them for that.

Absolutely!

I will admit I didnt pay enough attention......BUT.....It should be important to you, that extra charge is taken from YOUR pay- even though you arent buying. Most live auctions here in the east only charge the seller, I do believe online auctions do charge both most of the time.

So any profit is what auction house get, shipper makes zero profit, so all this sounds very negative for upcome season with increased gas prices an everything else up in price, buy bunch trap supplies is bad idea if this keep up for few more yrs as markets eventually well go down tubes on everthing eventually

Only you know if its worth your time to trap or if you'd be better off working a couple hours overtime instead.

I would definitely be better of to work 10 hours of overtime every week. Is that what I plan on doing? Heckkk no! I enjoy trapping not because of the value of the fur but because of the heritage and tradition and the enjoyment of connecting with the land.

If I was trapping for money I would be dead broke!

I could make much more money per hour cutting firewood.
I WON’T.

You guys just keep telling FHA that you don't need to make money. They will be able to accommodate you.

I'm happy for ya, that's why I said only he knows what's best for him. If he can lose money trapping or not.

That not what I really mean, no money in trapping right but if fur prices super low an less than last season with higher gas an everything , how much can u afford to ? Not really into kill coon for $3

All kinds of money in the fur buisness.
Just not much for the guy at the bottom.Like a lot of other industry.

All kinds of money in it ? I would think none make much but yes the guy at bottom, next to or nothing

When you look at the big picture and all aspects of the fur business, there can be good money made. Not super large amounts in super large quantities but in smaller terms. Niche markets are doing very well. You just need to figure out what those niches are and plan accordingly.

Niche markets probably won’t make you a millionaire but they will put food on the table and gas in the motor vehicle, with some left over.

For the trapper u mean ? Money in it ? I can't see how very easily in most cases , might be just a very few that make a little , so what is prediction for markets this fall, especially with coon markets ?

There are any number of trappers, probably more than you think, that make money by selling in niche markets. They aren’t getting rich but in many cases they are getting more than market value for their fur. Usually requires a bit extra work and some creative thinking. Boco is the perfect example.

Coon market this next season will be the same as the past couple of years. A few select pelts will bring ok money. Everything else not very good. IMO.

Yup

This. On a limited extent the last few years I've developed a weird niche market. I probably would never hang with these folks but they want to buy my fur and dont mind paying.

Pike River - good for you. And if I were you, I wouldn’t say much else about your niche market. You spent the time and effort to develop it, why give other people the benefit of your hard work.

Just saying…….

Furries?

Sage words....but Pike, if ya wanna pm me I'm all ears!

So china well be buy better coon for same as last season an low grade stuff sometimes very cheap for $1-$2? Rats an mink about same an beaver very low hatter market, maybe instead $8 average on dry beaver, $6?

No, I think a lot of us would scream as well if a finished larger average sized coon went for a buck. Its the holding out that better skins go for substantially more than GFW would buy them. But maybe that isn't going to happen anymore. My average on the small lot of donated local critters I finished that I sent to FHA this April is 0.0 so far...

If you want prices to get better, STOP SENDING THE MARKET ITEMS THEY DONT WANT!!

The fur market has told us all, no, screamed at us, that they have no interest in most coon and beaver. Stop shoving unwanted pelts into the market. Trap the pelts that are worth something, and if you are trapping worthless fur for fun or damage control, either tan and use them yourself, find a secondary market, or pitch them in the ditch.

I know I’m talking to a wall here, but if we all did that for a couple seasons you’d see higher prices than you ever dreamed were possible. Anyone sending coon into this market is just kicking the market while it’s down.

You are so wise for your years. Dam, I wish I was the Dai Lama at 31 (or is it 32 now?). How did your bcats do, didn't you sell them at one of the western "state" markets? Does your logic hold for for western cats, if you stop sending in and selling at $200-300, maybe they'll go back to $600 to a grand when the supply dries up...?

Where is the like button

I didn't trap cats last year. But 300 is about my average for our type cats on good years

red mt just send me 100 bucks and I will tell you how to do it. That can be USD or loonies.

seems that they are starting at the low end of fur like squirrels and telling guys |" don't send in"
they paid more than muskrats which paid more than racoon etc-etc
prices are rising from the bottom going up the chain of size of pelts

no body is getting rich in the fur industry but you dont hear groney or the auction complaining the auction just selling a small percent of the furs offered and still pay there bills and stay open grooney giving away four wheelers at nta sweepstakes every one should give them a 100 dollars along with your furs so you can keep trapping and have a place to go with them

Well I don't see much change in wild mink prices so that blows that theory. lol, LLL

Big difference between a $3 coon and a $300 cat. At $300 I can come out ahead, can you do that on $3 coon? You can’t even justify the time it takes to skin one for that price. It’s apples to oranges. But yes, the logic still holds. If buyers need cats, and there are very few cats, they will compete harder for them and drive up the price. Right now there are few buyers needing coon and a pipeline shoved full and it keeps getting more heaped on top. There’s no competition for them, so they can pretty much pay whatever they want.

And, if you’d been paying attention, I only had one cat to sell this year. I spent my time and effort trapping coyotes….because that’s what the market wants

Wild mink and beaver have never reached boom prices in the last 30 years. That trend will continue. I suspect.

I have always felt like I needed to see beaver averages in the mid 20's (at a minimum) to be worthwhile going after. The last couple of years castor is averaging between $15-$19 per beaver for me so selling a few carcasses, oil sacs and heads plus maybe $8-10 for the pelts gets me where I need to be.

I will add, if I didn't make a profit trapping I wouldn't be out there.

Did not set a coon trap last year. Won’t this year either. I trapped all winter. Got paid to trap beaver and trapped rats and otter along the way.
There’s other critters to trap other than coon. If ZERO coon were put on the market, we’d see an improvement in prices, although it wouldn’t be immediately.
If soybeans went to .50 cents a bushel due to overproduction and lack of demand, farmers would plant some other crop that WAS in demand.
Quit trapping coon guys. Scratch the itch on another species of critter.

Where do you see the pipeline "shoved full" with coon, Bob?? FHA offered what, less than a 100,000 at this sale, most were leftovers from the April sale. During good years in the past, over a million coon were sold between NAFA and FHA so I don't see where your "heaped to the top" has any reality except it sounds cool when you say it. And no, I wouldn't trap coon for $3, certainly not finishing them, but I have sold very few coon at $3. Maybe that paradigm has truly changed, we'll see with more data over time. I'm a low volume guy with limited time to trap, yotes are far fewer around peri-urban areas than coon, and people have problems with coons. If you read some of my posts, the coons I sent to FHA (first time to them) this spring were almost all donated to me so It was something to do as listened to the news or music in my garage. How much fuel did you burn up bouncing around the Nevada shrub lands versus what you got for your yotes?? Did it pay fast-food wages when you penciled everything out in the end...? You did it for as much fun as you did it for for coin...

That is where I am at with beaver......skulls, meat, oil sacs, castor, fur....about $30 average.

I average 125.00 per beaver and get paid as soon as the job is done. Also sell the castor, oil sacs and pelts when in season. Skulls too. Very few trapping beaver around here. They call when they need them gone. Way more than I want. LLL

I have not targeted a coon in several years.. Year before last, I caught about 70 in my coyote traps, mostly 3&4 X, and last year I caught exactly 2 on my coyote line. One other in a cage trap, protecting my chickens and guineas. Not a coon trail or road kill all winter and late spring. Kinda glad to see them go, but it's a dang shame. We had a very pretty coon here wher I'm at!

Is that the same as the sledge hammer they use at the circus to ring the bell.

I got $70 Canadian for a nice male mink back in 2013 at NAFA.

A few things missing in this now^^^^^

$70 for a wild mink...2013....and NAFA.

Anyone have a link with results? How much were rats?