FURHARVESTERS

Is the sale still on for April and the April pickups?

Call your pickup agent. Northern Pa picked up Saturday.

I had my fur picked up on the last Sunday of March, western Pa.

But your fur being picked up now is for the July sale. The last receiving date for the April sale was in January.

Talked to my agent on Friday, 04/01/21, He told me as far as he knew the April sale was still on for the 16 -19 of April. Was not sure what kind of a sale it would be. Some people could get into the sale, but out side country buyers might have to guarantee for 14 days ahead of the sale.

My agent is saying that generally there is a positive buzz on the April sale. We'll see. And of course all the private treaty between September and April will be accounted for after this sale. I hear that it was fairly active in the PT realm.

Check their web page, new sale dates have been announced.
internut auction
Ontario lockdown

Anyone know how they are structured?

I checked the page and its the same as it has been for quite some time.

Why would they bid on anything when they know they can buy at below asking price in PT room

They won't and this will be a bust. No need for an auction anymore. Just buy it in the fire room. They already gave all the good stuff away last December of mine. I hope they enjoyed it because they won't get any more from me. LLL

Look at the page with the BC pick-up closure they post NEW AUCTION DATES
their main page is not changed

Where are you seeing the internet auction info?

I wonder how much fha pt fur grony will have on his sale? Any guesses?

On line bidding to commence April 15th and articles closing April 17-19 with the particulars available to registered buyers.

The normal late June sale is now early July. That is what I am seeing on the main page for some time now. What is posted on the BC pick up is the older news.

Anyone receive an FHA lotting letter yet?

Do you mean showing up on your account when you log in?

Mine is the same info from back in September which shows that I sold a coyote and a beaver and the rest sits unmolested. (I did get a check for $85 in December from PT sales but it's not accounted for yet).

Yes. It shows up how many of each species I shipped this time but no grades yet.

I just now dropped 92 beaver with my agent but I don't expect to see those show up until late June.

The sale dates have not changed, that's a typo

Why is it that NO ONE with FH comes in here and answers these questions? Tman is the best outlet to reach their shippers as it appears the FH website is not.

I have no skin in this game but these type threads are started before EVERY FurHarvesters sale.

Is there no Tman members that are FH employees or on the inside that can straighten this out for everyone?

I dont understand why FH just remains quiet if they want folks to ship them fur.

Shippers need more than a once a year wild-arse guess market forecast followed by no further info from them.

At this point in time, the staff at FH is working to get ready for the upcoming sale. Sample lots. Catalogs. Putting pictures in the buyers on line catalogs. Lots of little details. Posting on Tman is not top priority right know. Getting ready for the sale is.

FH operates with a much smaller staff than NAFA had. NAFA had dedicated IT employees. FH does not. The person in charge of the web site also works in the warehouse. I’m sure some one at FH keeps an eye on Tman, just to see what is being said. Any post they might make would have to be perfectly worded so as not to cause problems.

In the past, NAFA would have employees that posted on Tman. They would post as NAFA employees and would post general information and try to answer questions. Just about every post they made turned into a whining thread. Members, like jtrapper, complaining about something that happened back in the 1980’s. Folks upset with Private Treaty deals. The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

What should have been informative threads went downhill fast. Eventually, NAFA employees were told they should not post on Tman. Possibly the same is true at FH. There is enough controversy on FH threads as there is. Why add more fuel to the fire.

2X

The same old song and dance just a different day.

Cause it makes interesting reading!!!

Beav - that’s what happens when a person gets old and senile. Right??

You have a US director on the board-If you are a loyal shipper I'm sure you have his contact info.Ask him.

Like wismiss said-they wont subject themselves to the stupidity/bashing on an open forum from clueless people or people with ulterior motives/competitors.
They are too busy working for trappers.

Boco - very well said.

Well If you want a person to deal with your organization you need to be up front with those persons. And If you take a little flack when you post the information then so be It. No one likes to be treated like a mushroom.

They could hire Miss Wiss she has plenty of time on her hands and seems to know her way around the fur trade and auction process.

As stated...I have no skin in this game....so Im just making an observation.....

They are too busy working for trappers??? Really?

Is that the reason why it seems NO ONE knows what the heck is going on with the FH or any of their auctions? Some of the trappers asking about what is going on are longtime shippers to FH.

Why would any trapper want to ship to a company where it seems like the current shippers are kept in the dark and the companies ops are not explained?

I hate to see them foldup like NAFA, but their marketing and openness to their shippers sux. Things dont look good for them and by missing opportunities to inform their shippers is BAD business.

I dont understand why a company with their crap together would worry about what a Tman thread turned into. Just put a post out about their plans and schedules......give trappers the correct info they need to make an informed decision about whether to ship to them or not.

Another fur company does this on Tman.

HOW DANG HARD IS THAT???

They are not a big company just a bunch of trappers with a bit of hired staff.
Like I said-contact your director-no need for whining and bashing.The directors are volunteer trappers representing the grassroots.There is 1 director from the ranch industry and 1 representing US trappers.There are 9 directors on the board that make the decisions on the direction of the company.If you have concerns contact your director and get him to bring it up at the board meeting.If you ship fur you are a delegate and can attend the AGM board meeting in North Bay once a year and vote.
Trappers are loyal to FHA because it was started by trappers for trappers and remains such.That is why trappers ship to FHA.

Too busy to keep it's customer base informed? Must be a Democrat company. Anybody whose been around awhile knows exactly what the silence means. Be careful when You bend over to tie Your shoes.

I imagine after reading a thread like this top brass at FHA are glad they don't post here. No way to win.

I doubt their top brass can even figure out how to get online. Unbelievable,your customers are treated like ,your lucky we take your fur. A high school kid could update accounts and communicate with shippers better than those clowns do

I think you would be surprised who at FH follows Tman. Probably s vernal (or more) of the top brass.

Back in the NAFA days, even Herman followed Tman. I know that for a fact because on more than one occasion he would comment to me about something some one had posted. Others the followed Tman - Oscar, the Private Treaty person.

I still say that getting ready for the upcoming sale is more important that jousting on Tman.

Groney ROCKS.

Or one can always run for President of our nation!!lol

So can dealers have minuim bid limits set on goods at sale or in pt room ?

In the past, dealers could put limits on their goods IF the goods were all theirs. If the dealers goods were in the intersort lots, the no limits.

When NAFA closed, FHA changed their policy. Due to limited storage space, dealers could no long put limits on their goods. Many dealer goods were intersorted with trappers goods. Dealers had no choice.

There are still a couple of major players that have limits on their goods. Special favor from FH for the volume they send.

One of the few times that Greg S was on here everything was in CAPITAL letters, but he was recovering from a heart attach
funny what a couple of Saskatchewan racoon did to him

So groenwolds sell at FHA? I thought other way around

I doubt very much that Groenwald’s sells at FH. They have many direct contacts overseas. Both ?Asia and Europe. They have no need to have FH market their goods.

There are any number of other major buyers of raw fur in the country. They all have their own overseas markets, for the most part.

What did you average on your beaver sir?

I talked to Toby Edwards today the fur pickup is on. The info on the April 19 sale and how it will be handled is a variable. Canada is going covid kooky again.

Of the major buyers, I heard groenwolds prices better other major buyers, not to say u could find better prices elsewhere , u would have be licensed to ship fur to Chinese buyers? Not work as trapper to send overseas ? I have go thru broker, I don't believe nowadays u find good broker as a trapper, years ago maybe

Couple questions, how many times do they have to get fur ready that has been there for years?

Are they year around employees?

Probability around a 10 to 12 full time, with 40 or 50 part-time seasonal workers. Getting ready for a sale is the same for every sale, fresh goods need to be ticketed, some needs to be drummed, fur arrives from many different places over the course of a couple of weeks to a month. The steps to get it ready from ticketing it to building a sales catalogue take time.

Ontario is in a Covid lockdown so this is making it more difficult, they outright suck at their IT support, has always been their Achilles' heel.

I am not sure it is just sucky IT support. It may well be their lack of understanding that the wise use of technology saves them far more time and money than it costs. There are lots of companies around that have not figured that out yet so it is not just FHA.

I do not believe that technology cost was a significant reason for NAFA going under. Matter of fact, technology may have even helped keep them afloat longer. They had plenty of other policies that were their downfall.

Misswiss did you register as a buyer for the upcoming auction again?

Yes. I am registered. When they confirmed my reservation , the email said more details of how the auction will work will be provided when it is available.

As of this morning, no additional details. Too early to be concerned.

Right on Beav...they must be seriously busy for a seriously long time...they still haven’t updated my account for a piddly little check they sent me months ago. How am I supposed to make any sort of decision on what to catch/ship if they can’t have the common decency to inform someone what they are receiving a check for? You cannot tell me it is not in they’re computer system what sold PT...otherwise, how did they cut the check? I sure hope they don’t lose the napkin that it’s wrote on before someone has a chance to update my account.

And here we sit on the cusp of the last receiving date for a July sale. Conveniently, last receiving is before April sale results will be known too. I think I’ll pass until I find out what’s really going on!

BvrRetriever,

Under normal FHA protocols you wouldn't even have known about that money until after the next sale. End of story.

Their board of directors just thought that with a lot of us suffering economic issues with Covid that they would get us whatever money we had accumulated via PT sales between September and December into our pockets just before Christmas. It will be accounted for after the April sale.

Personally I think it was a nice gesture.

https://www.furharvesters.com/pdf/pressreleaseAPRIL6.pdf

July 2021 Auction

Starting April 9th our auction facility is open for scheduled inspection to registered fur brokers and buyers. This is for inspection only and ONLINE bids will commence April 16th at 8am EST. This is an “ONLINE” auction and we will begin closing bids on April 17th at 7am through to the 20th.

Both European auctions very recently concluded and these sales ran for a few days longer than advertised due to increased interest. We decided to add an extra day as well to better accommodate our customers.


ALL PICK UP ROUTES ARE GOING AHEAD AS ADVERTISED ACROSS ALL OF NORTH AMERICA. The only exception is British Columbia and PEI which have been postponed for the time being.

Respectfully,
Mark Downey
Chief Executive Officer Fur Harvesters Auction Inc.

The auction catalogues are also starting to be released on their website under the buyers tab. Once they are released or shortly after the trappers accounts will show the grades and lotting.

That's not always true. Click on the sold catalog section and scroll to the bottom of the page, PT sales at the last sale were higher, grade for grade on most species if you compare the sold prices.

So many fail to consider the fluidity of the market. Can anyone recall what rats were selling for in the country last November? Seemed like sellers primary objective was to move goods. Regardless of price.

Under the circumstances I do agree that FHA needs improve communication and learn to take advantage of technology in order to break out and exploit the true auction advantage.

Yep averages were around $4.00 I know one guy got a $4.35 cent average on 1000 + rats.

Yes, I can tell you. Not enough!

What do I win.

FHA has and will most likely be behind the times when it comes to technology, it's expensive. I don't like it either but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

I wish they would treat me like a Mushroom. Mushrooms are more valuable than marten around here. I'm fixin to be treated like Ned Beatty again, I suspect

Marten...aren't those the new Alaska possum?

Inspection starts this Friday the 9th, but they have yet to update my account ? The last auction they had my account screwed up and it took several phone calls to fix it. Looks like they are cutting pretty close, with only about a week to go before the actual auction ?

I'm hoping they update accounts also, I had a bunch sell pt months ago and also shipped a bunch so would be nice to see what's left and graded at

Nimzy,

Have you sold your winter rat catch, yet ?

If not, how, when, & with who do you intend to
market your rats with ?

Just asking for a friend !!!

walleyed

He wont tell you Walleyed-he doesnt want you to flood the market with all those world famous top notch NY section rats.

Sell to highest bidder. Eyes on FHA

No chance of me flooding the market with my spring rat catch.

In fact, it's my most pitiful spring catch of rats in 10 years.

Oh well, at least I was out there catching a few.

w

Its a great time of year to be out on the creeks.

For your patience and foresight you will be awarded the sum of the difference between then and now, times the skins you have available. Lol

What if then is greater than now?

Like yours, the ones I have ain't for sell at these values. I do believe Boco is right, we'll see 7 to 8 dollar averages within the next 18 months.

Or 9 or ten if drought strickens.

The staple goods will move together with momentum. We are in a deep cavern, there is only one way out.

If that happens, Biden and co. will love you.

We hit double digits I’ll love him too. Groeny told me “we only have a market when democratiz are in office”. I hope he is proven correct, again?

When the last time the US cranked up the money presses starting in 08 it took a couple years for the rat market to get hot(among others) and a couple three more to peak.

I'm starting to read predictions of corn 8 to 10 dollars by '23.

Hang on boys, we printed a heck of a lot more money on this go around and not done either.

The highest highs follow the deepest lows. Thats why you can’t let them all go at once. Well that and your earlier insinuation.

You might see $7.00 averages but I don't think It's going to go any higher.

I need to sell mine.

If you can, wait until the auction is over.

Are you taking your walk in with you?

Why? $7 averages are no where near any form of break out figures. Beav I am not saying you are incorrect, just curious on your theory. (Good discussion material)

You Thinking a $7 average would generate enough interest by producers to create oversupply? Or something else?

Anticipating $7 average would bring thousands of traps into water that are currently hanging on walls.

By a bunch of gentlemen like myself who are 8 years older then the last go round. Rat trapping is WORK. $7 isn’t a great incentive in this day and age. Rephrase hardly incentive. Jmo

Rats might be worth 7 bucks by next springs selling season? So what, the real question is what is 7 dollars going to be worth.

ps at that price walleyed will kill it!

Not that money is the only incentive to trap. Although it likely inspires increased activity in those with other motives.

Agreed but $$ provides an additional incentive which results of more production.

You almost had your mind right! It would appear trappers tend to reset the level it is worth it. I anticpate trappers getting excited and bragging about new prices that are still not very good or poor. They want to trap, so they will tell themselves it is worth it or antipate prices that will not materialize. Even here I hear stuff about fur already caught, frozen and ready to dump on the market when prices get acceptable, probably flooding the market and keeping prices moderately low.

OK they are having inspections starting tomorrow. My fur is still not updated on my account. They sold stuff pt so who knows what is for sale and what is not? I also see they have turned it into an internet sale and extended it because of renewed interest. If there is such interest wouldn't the buyers be bidding aggressively from the start? I wonder how many days of pt they will have after the sale and how long it will take to make all those back door deals? Sure hope this is not another continued fire sale but I am not very optimistic about the outcome. I have coon left but they gave the best away earlier and sold all my rats for little to nothing compared to what you all are talking now. I guess time will tell. I just hope I get paid for what they gave away after the last auction pt fest. You know, the one where they said no PT sales after the auction was over. LLL

I feel the Groney sale will about kill any chance of FHA having a good sale. I feel that is where the international buyers will be. There may be some bargain shopping on the computer and small buyers looking to pick up stuff cheap to resale at trapper auctions or use in the trinket trade. But some how I don't see a fur boom coming. I wonder if FHA will survive what is going on. All the stars are lining up for Groney.

First priority at FH is getting catalogs ready so buyers have something to work with tomorrow. Right now, only 7 catalogs have been posted.

Once ALL the catalogs are ready, then updating shipper accounts is the next step.

What have they been doing this whole time since the last "sale"? Don't tell me tagging and bringing in new fur because that amount is surely a mere pitence of what they have taken in in the past. Updating an account after a sale is usually done instantly but I guess they could not do that this time. LLL

Remember last auction when guys where just hoping there fur would sell with everything going on? Even some of the country buyers would not touch stuff last year at this time......Talk was not how much you could get for it but where someone would even make an offer.

This is where the wise use of technology could pay off. It is all the same data, just a different sort and distribution. It should all be done at the same time in the background or offline and then it is just a matter of making it live.

I got this little tid bit from a FHA employee.
Don't know If this fact or not but groney isn't having a sale. Sometime about the Chinese telling him It's not going to happen.

During the 3 months since the last receiving date for this sale, Canada has spent a lot of time in lockdown. Only so many people could be in the building at once. At one point is was 5 and it was only that many because the FH building is 2 levels tall. Amostnof thenemployees were working from home.

It is easy for an IT guy or an office person to work from home. But what about a fur Grader?? What is he/she supposed to do - take 2000 muskrats home to grade..........

GIVE THEM A BREAK!!!! They are attempting to have a sale in very difficult times. This isn’t a walk in the park for them!!!

I think we all understand that however my fur sold 5 months ago private treaty and a portion of the funds were sent with absolutely no idea what it was for or how much and no update to accounts. If they would simply update the shippers I'm sure it would save thousands of unnecessary phone calls and emails.

With the Trump vaccines, and possibly some light at the end of the cofid tunnel, the hope is for loosening restrictions. So as for the upcoming June/July sale, it sounds like FHA is prepared to move it back to Aug etc if that means open borders and in person auction. Let's hope so and the sooner the better!

Groney's sale has been postponed, they got caught with raw coyote pelts in China which is a no no. So FHA sale will go off first which should help them. Rats are supposed to increase some, how much is the million dollar question.

That is laughable. Greg and his crew have been there the whole time. What fur is there to grade? I bet this is as little of fur as they have handled in decades. But like has already been said, they sold a bunch of fur six plus months ago and have not updated anything. That all could have been done remotely unless something else is going on.

My take is that they did not want folks to know what they gave their better fur away for until they had shipped this winter's fresh goods to them. Nothing else comes close to explaining it. Quit carrying their water. They would not tell you the truth either if it was shady. LLL

I got the perfect solution for LL....don't ship to FHA if you don't like how they do things. They pretty much have been doing things the same way ever since I first shipped 22-23 years ago. Nothing new here.

Theyre not gonna survive if they keep it up either.

Take it easy peeler, nobody's gonna take your top lot hat away.

Nafa never updated accts never or not all time after pt sales until next sale, lot gripes about FHA, smaller outfit than nafa, never try them I don't know, so Thais kinda a broker or u got have lot fur to go thru a broker to get it directly to China ?

I took your advice. I will not be shipping anything to them going forward but for your insight this was not my first time shipping either. I probably shipped more fur to them this last decade than you have in your 24 years I would bet. LLL

Yep...something stinks.

They flat out lied when they said they would not sell any fur after the August sale dates were over. They did sell a bunch of stuff real cheap. That is not how they have done business in the past. They are going the way of NAFA. Dave you better find you a local dealer. LLL

In today’s day and age, there is absolutely no reason for lack of communication! I refuse to send more fur into a black hole. I’ve got other outlets but liked the idea of competitive bidding. If I’m kept in the dark I will act accordingly.

There is no competitive bidding when they sell stuff in the private treaty room. LLL

Good point. At least when you sell local you can pull it back.

Yep I know a fella that sold 50 northern wi mink for a $2.97 average to a traveling country buyer back before chistmas. What’s ur point?

This.entire season has been a fire sale up to 3 weeks ago.

Sorry LL, I'm sure you're right and I'm likely guilty of coming off a little snippy....but gee wiz man, if you've done business with them for as long as you say, you know how they do things. Nothing has changed. Why the constant whining?

The fur market is not good but should we kill the messenger?

They have never flat out lied about things in the past. You cannot tell me you will not sell my stuff at a private treaty and then do just that. I hold Mark Downey responsible for that. I despise a liar. Tell me the truth. I can take that. Tell me a lie and I will never trust you again for the most part or at least have reservations. LLL

Poor communication cost FHA some business for sure this year. I would guess their intentions were good on holding to valuations going into recent auctions, but underestimated how depressed the market had become. Perhaps they had to move some product just to stay afloat. It caused me to hold fur back that I intended to ship, but instead found another market. Still, I won't write them off in the future and hope they can right the ship and become a viable market again.

NAFA always updated my account with any PT sales by prompt date. Any PT sales that occurred after prompt date would be updated at next auction.

Can anyone remember anything they said or does that matter? They said they would NOT sell anything after the sale. They did. I guess some do not know about the scripture of "let your yes be yes and your no be no. LLL

Hid did you find that info? I didn’t want to bother them but I certainly don’t see anything on my account pertaining to pt sales

LL, apologies extended. I now get your point, and I do recall then saying it was auction or nothing or words to the effect. Must have changed their minds.

As much as it bothers the shippers, I’m afraid it showed the brokers/buyers that FHA saying it’s auction “or else” means nothing. Essentially their bluff was called.

It doesn't matter.

Don’t ship fur your not willing to accept a total loss. Shipping is a big gamble. In other words, Live by the sword and die by the sword. There is a small niche market for a few select articles in small quantities. Not what I would consider a viable fur market therefore large percentage of most trappers fur shipped will have little to no value. No way FHA can make everyone happy. (Fur prices stink no matter where trapper sells)

It needs to be a partnership. If I can’t trust them, it’s not going to work. Things seem shady to me right now.

All this dissatisfaction is a sign of capitulation?

A Nafa agent once told me “you’re only as good as your LAST sale”. Whereas I replied. No, you’re only as good as your NEXT sale. He chuckled at that.

A testimony to the challenges of “trust”, the scrutiny of decisions. And the interpretation of the fallout.

I just dropped off a string of coyotes and a sack of rats with the local receiving agent. I'm thinking the coyotes will do ok regardless and that things might be perking up with the rats. We'll see.

wissmiss being a buyer at the auction are you planning on giving 20 to 30 dollar averages on coon and record highs on other fur bet it woudnt take them long to put that on the internet if you did

LL if you have shipped so much fur I'm sure you have read the conditions of sale. #7 They will sell your fur at their discretion. You Knew what you were getting into when you sent your fur there. Being so you didn't trap this year evidently you couldn't find any place better in this market. So unwad your panties and suck it up buttercup.

Tell that to the guys NAFA screwed. We have one auction house left and I doubt they have any interest in more fur. Maybe more state association sales could help fill a void. FHA doesn't have the facilities, tech savvy manpower or ambition to anything more than a small Canadian trapper led company. Nothing wrong with that but sure would like to see some forward thinking people come up with other options. The market might actually be on the upswing for a few years with few ranch mink being produced

Who are you toilet paper two? Where does it say they can lie and that is ok. They told us they were not going to sell them PT and did. How much fur do you have up there? I did not trap because there was no money to be made. Why add to the injury? Did not know I had to run my business past you. LLL

Larry, you had to learn the hard way. FHA has told us many times they are going to "hold" the line so to speak and then did the opposite.

They said one thing and did another, sounds like politicians have taken over FHA.

They said one thing and did another, sounds like politicians have taken over FHA.

Conditions change that often require different strategy. Someone that has to get income from fur most likely shouldn’t ship to auction house, take guarantee money locally. The fur market sucks, I bought fur for almost 10 years and none of my arrangements are currently in existence.

The spring selling season of 2014 was the last time the auctions were a viable choice, barely. In a hot market the auctions are great, in a climate like this a very poor choice.

Holding the line stalls cash flow, increases risk, requires additional handling and creates storage fees that can only be recovered with significant pelt price increases. As sellers we need to recognize the current environment. When things are bad we must expect bad things.

FHA for all their good intentions are simply the equivalent of Class A Baseball !! Kids that are never going to make it! As a Buisnessman I find it in inconceivable that an organization that is operating within a Worldwide Market can be so tech antiquated and fundamentally inferior to what actually takes to operate competitively in the Worldwide market place. I personally have no I'll feelings towards them.as they are trying to provide us with a market resource in the toughest of conditions but they drop the ball repeatedly when it comes to communication with their shippers and I can only assume are as inept when dealing with clients which is not to reassuring.

Key word competitive. They really no longer have any in this business model.

Nafa was far and away savvy. However all that savvy can create suspicion and irritate shippers.

Perhaps FHA found flaw in that and believes simplistic carries a more “honest” vibe? Just spitballing

Again as I said I don't have any beef with FHA except that I observe them pretending to be in the big leagues when in fact we all know that they simply are not, they are earnest in their desire to be but in t h.g.h e Market place they are country yokels!

any one that has been at this for a few years know that fha sale most of the time followed nafas sale what nafa did fha did sell held for hopfully higher prices what ever have you heard once of a action company visiting buyers across the water after nafa closed if you look at the sales they get less every year at fha you guys wanting to see better prices better hope some thing besides groney and fha happens

I believe they hired a lot of former NAFA employees. Seems like it.

If you guys don't think NAFA could screw up or lie, check out Doilette.

Is it Furharvesters fault if the "line" was that low. 6.67 avg on eastern coon seems decent in this market.

In the last few years of Nafa's existence many felt that their grading had gone downhill, eroding buyers confidence. In that regard FHA had them beat, in particular when it came to beaver.

Funny you should say that beaverpeeler because my beaver always graded much better at FHA than NAFA. Buyers definitely got the better deal on beaver at NAFA , certainly not me.

But NAFA kicked butt when It came to Otter. Oh for those days of $100.00 averages.

I agree FHA had the upper hand when it comes to beaver. I’m not disputing that. It’s the lack of communication that I’ve got a problem with. It’s very difficult for me to comprehend getting a check that I don’t know what it’s for. Maybe I’ll feel more confident in them again once my account finally gets updated. Time will tell.

And raccoon! And it really wasn't close. Anywhere with anybody.

They're still standing, they must be doing something right.

At the same time, my otter were averaging $120.00 at FHA,
and my beavers were averaging higher at FHA as well, BEAV !!

w

You guys must have a poor otter.
I sold section3 otter with the hair falling out for $180 back in the otter boom.

Raising the BS flag.

I'll help you raise the flag.

For wissmiss.
You should know by now that I dont BS.

When Boco posts, I run for my hip boots.

You can all drop your flags,like wissmiss you should all know by now that I never bs.

Canadian funny money?

Not sure beav,the dollars were near par at one time.

I got a bunch of otter off of some ADC guys In SC and most of them were caught In August and September they still averaged around $120.00. One of those otter boom years I skinned 80 otter I made some dollars that year.

All this reminiscing doesn’t change my opinion of otter! Lol

I don't think any of them made it to the fur market.

Note the avgs on both sec 1 and sec 3

The chinamen were buying everything back then as long as it was an otter.

Grade was seemingly irrelevant.

It appears they have given birth to multiple sale catalogs in the past couple of days.

Same as when China went nuts for sea otter back in the day only that was even better.

If it was pale you were golden. Singe...what's that? Who cares!

Dead right on this Carl. The "Chinese Grade" literally put some small manufacturers out of business, beaver is a good example with Montreal beaver garment specialist's, wild mink another. Fontani's in Milan used to produce the world's finest wild mink garments, but they had to be very carefully matched. They succumbed to not only getting older but not adapting to finding another source of finely graded wild mink skins. NAFA had at one time literally dozens of sections of wild mink. At the end they only had three to my knowledge. The gist of this post is that accurate grading is even more important with wild fur than it is with ranched goods. I do have to agree that their internet skills could use significant improvement, pretty outdated!

I agree in market conditions like this. But not so much in rising or strong market.

I got soured on FHA for some time because of they handled the rat market. I had a FHA agent convince me to ship rats right before the rat boom really got legs and convinced me to put them on them on the June sale. Bad on me for doing it and I take credit for my decision but those rats averaged less than two bucks and the next January they were 5 6 dollar rats. When the rat market got hot I can think of two years FHA sold the rats in their early sale for less than I was getting in the country.

I believe there is a time to hold and a time to fold.

I've been there a time or two as well Steven.

If I had burned my bridges after every fur selling deal where I felt I got the short end of things.....I would have no more outlets left to sell fur.

I guess I advocate auctions because I believe in the concept. The structure of competitive bidding, the idea that the more I make the more they make. When the market is poised to move the auction creates pressure, captures the action and provides full disclosure, in real time.
Flip side That exact system treads turbulent water during tough times. Many have difficulty with the transfer of power when handing over their fur. It’s frustrating to witness all the negativity associated with hind sight actions. And the loonnngggg memories of the scorned.
Perhaps I’m living in the past. If this fur market continues towards a “walmartization” with one or three “middlemen “ leading the charge Im afraid I will lose any viable supplemental income source and have to change a lifestyle. Pure selfishness I suppose.

If you are a tech savvy entrepreneur we need ya! Bring this 600 year old industry into modern times and walk or should I say run away with that brass ring.

There is an opportunity to make john Jacob Astor look like a chump. Lol

Buyers can wait for private sales so they don’t have to bid their top price. Private sales hurt the ave price, IMO. I would rather they sell every lot to the highest bidder. But I don’t have a large volume either.

Not in a competitive market. PT is an aftermarket associate. A sign of weakness. Yes the auction has a responsibility to recruit active bidders (which may at times be easier said then done)

You guys act like some including me are mad because they sold my fur cheap. You totally glance over the part where the President of FHA came out in a notification that they would not sell ANYTHING after the last day of the sale.

If I told you on the fur shed that I was selling two dozen traps for 100.00 and then sent you 23 and told you that after you sent your money would that be ok? No you would be pming me and if I did nothing to fix it you would be on here saying how I stole from you. I would be a LIAR. I said one thing and did the other. No one stole anything from me but they lied.

Also you guys say you like competitive bidding. Yes that is exactly what a true auction even on line does. When you know you can buy them cheaper with no competition there is no reason to even bid. No wonder the fur market is in the toilet. Trappers cannot figure marketing out and are willing to loose money. They figure if they make a dollar or two over the cost of gas then they have made something not taking into consideration all the other expense because after all they don't make money fishing or deer hunting. lol.

The phrase " I don't trap for the money" is the dumbest thing you could say on an open forum besides "I do it for the fun". It allows anti trappers to say those folks just like to kill things.

I trap for the money. Yes I do enjoy getting out in nature but once that is over and I have a truck load of fur to work every night the fun is gone and I want to be paid for my work. I am a skilled tradesman and do not expect to be lied to, cheated or wrote a bad check so for that reason I will no longer be shipping fur to any so called auction house until the PT room no longer exists.

An Auction house sells to the highest bidder. If it does not sell then they sell it at the next auction. NO OTHER AUCTION has a back room sale. That flies in the face of competitive bidding. If you guys cannot see that then I cannot help but think you really just need a place to dump your fur. Your bad. I am done with it for now. LLL

An auction, like any business is great when it works. Saying no PT sales works great until there are no bids at auction. Imagine the outrage if all bids started at a dime and everything sold no matter what the price. Would the offended be satisfied then?

Why put a value on them? They do that too. Remember these places are the heartbeat of the industry. They talk to manufacturers and end users daily. If they sold them for what they valued them at it would be more transparent than saying you will not sell them after the sale and do just the contrary. You all just don't get it I guess. The bottom line is when you are in business and you say something you are on the hook for it. I run two businesses and when I tell my customer I will or will not do something that is exactly what happens. If there is a chance I will not be able to I tell them that upfront ie. it might rain and that will put it off a day or two.

They did not see that they needed money to operate and hence the need to give our fur away cheap after saying they would not so I am the bad guy because I despise a liar. I think some of you folks are possibly part of the problem. Ship away until your check bounces from them and then some will still be willing to ship. It is laughable. LLL

It's called the skin game for a reason and I'm not talking about the fur.

I have no problem with pt sales after a competithive auction near the going rates

Good points LL. I get what you're saying. At the same time I have on more than one occasion chosen to take my fur off of a competitive local auction where only the bottom feeder buyers have bid, and shipped it north hoping to get a more realistic price. And sometimes it all comes back in my face. Generally I prefer to take my lumps up north than locally. Maybe it's because I loath giving them away to buyers I know. Guess I prefer the anonymity.

This has not happened in a while now however. PT was for those who wanted something but needed time to communicate with the broker. Now it is the auction house being the broker as I see it. LLL

I agree; not much auction going on.

As far as FHA telling trappers that they would not PT after the Auction: I believe they told the buyers this as the rule of that auction. Trappers were not told this prior to shipping the fur at that auction so we had no expectation of this prior to shipping. They lied to the buyers. We had hope!

Same crap different pile when NAFA had a no limit rule for buyers for coon and rats after the fur had been shipped. They didn't lie to the buyers, they (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) the shippers.

I'm not sure but I think back in the day NAFA upped the price by a small percentage once the fur went Into PT. Maybe Miss Wiss could comment on that.

ya Beav there was a different shipping fee added on for those PT sales.

The commissions and fees were the same whether it sold in the room or PT. Exact same structure.

The starting price in the PT room depended on how that species did in the auction room.

If that species sold very well in the room, the PT price would be 10% above Hammer price. No wiggle room.

If the species sold ok in the room, the PT price would start at 10% above. They might settle for hammer price, especially if you wanted a lot of skins.

If the species struggled in the auction room, they would try for hammer price and probably hold at that level. If the buyer was talking large numbers, there was some negotiating room.

I’ve been going to international auctions since 1984. There has been only one case in all those years when the PT room was a free for all. The year was probably the late 1980s. The species was bears. The magic number was $3.00. It was either yes or no on my part. There were some bears that I declined to buy at that price.

Note - on those bears, this was when you could sell any bear, even partial hides in Ontario. Now the hide has to have 20 claws to be legal to sell. I don’t recall the last time a bear sold for less than $20.00.

Except for that one time, I don’t remember ever getting a smoking good deal in the PT room. Deals, yes. But no barn burner, get filthy rich deals.

Thank you Miss Wiss. Your just commenting on how NAFA ran their PT sales right?

Yes. My comments all are in reference. FHA operates in a similar fashion. Often times, FH will announce there will be no PT sales. Either buy it in the room or go without. I usually do most of my FH buying in the room. On the items I buy, there isn’t much left by the time the pages getnto the PT room.

At the FHA sale in April 2020, I did put together a couple of deals after the auction ended.

You must not be out of the loop then.. Lol.

Thanks for the hands on clarity. Over the years I have made it to 2 sales one in Seattle the other Toronto I was very impressed with both operations.

Do you ever get frustrated with the rumor mill?

Something I've never seen before. Looks like the 9 cats I sent in for this sale are already marked "held for next sale" Anyone have any insight on that?

What changed on the PT room because that is not how it works now. What they sold coon for was not even close to the valuations they had on them. LLL

Just my opinion. Perhaps they arrived too late to be included in this auction. Or they didn’t have enough cats from your section to put up a good collection and they were/are hoping to have available for the next auction. Just an educated opinion.

One trip I will always be glad I made is a NAFA sale in Toronto, hopefully Canada opens back up and I can go to a FHA sale or the FHA convention.

2nd year now no convention-bummer.
Been going every year since it was OTA.
Lots of friends there.

They were there in time as all my other fur is posted. My hunch is maybe they were holding the fresh cats until they can get the buyers in person. No worries on my part, just found it unusual.

True , your partys have always been important to me.

Me too,good to get to know new people and meet up with old buddys.
Lots of stuff goes on besides the partying.Always good to talk to the graders over the weekend.
I met a few guys from the forum here at the convention.
And my good buddy,Robert Stitt, trapping in the Yukon now, comes down,great to see him.

All those things that happened to you really were good for me too.

Dont understand your point-have you ever attended?

Your hunch is probably correct. The last receiving date for the April sale was the middle of January. Many of the better western cats are still walking around then. Or they are in freezers waiting to be put up.

By the last receiving date for the July sale (middle of April), cat seasons are closed and trappers have their fur put up and ready to sell/ship.

When you check out how cats sell in April, don’t be too concerned if they don’t do well. Much og the collection is probably held over goods or dealer lots. I think the cat offering will be much better at the July sale.

Easy for you to say.

It seems this is a critical sale for FHA. Shipper confidence is extremely low. The timing of the latest internal news (which sounds like it occurred in September) is horrible. The accusations flying are serious. And the death sentence (bankruptcy) handed down to the competition is looming. If they fail to motivate buyers they will likely be crucified. Are fur auctions following the path of the buggy whip?

Nimzy WissMiss is a buyer. She benefits from the way these people operate by her own admission. If I am not mistaken she has relation that works there. Those folks are not making the decisions however. It is the president. Watch for the golden parachutes to come out any time now. If they cannot get this right, which I doubt they can because of Canadian fear of foreign travel and other things, it will be there Waterloo. LLL

wissmiss things change every auction you talk about what happened in the past you talk about the pt sells according to the bids they receive in the auction room how about the thousands of furs that dont even get a bid in the room and yes theres been a lot of sales that never even came close to the evaluations ive often wondered why they even bother with them talk about a waist of time

This is called the "Dunning-Kruger effect".

The only thing we have to fear....is fear itself.

Nafa overextended itself catering to the ranch mink industry. FHA has been much more conservative and doesn't have much outstanding debt if any. They'll pull thorough this fur slump.

Monitors report April 5,2021

I guess you can't loan money to mink farmers and then sell their product below production costs. The farmers can't pay you back if you loaned them more than the mink are worth. Pure genius!

Weird thing is NAFA has mink at AME selling with FHA.

Becoming an bank and terrible decisions by Jansen as president broke them. He got out with a chunk of money before the cops got there many speculate They should be still business probably smaller but greed destroyed themq

They got blindsided by the market. That machine needed a lot of fuel. Way more than just mink loans ( which was the backbone of they’re business).

Now nepotism, did wissmiss have any connections (cousins) at Nafa?

I disagree. They were expanding in a declining market. I think they were doing a groeny. When the market dropped they were selling 3 million or so mink. When they went bankrupt they were selling 10 million or so mink below production cost.

I think for all of the contributions WissMiss makes to this site we can afford her a modicum of privacy concerning family matters. It is none of our business.

I don’t like that implication. I will make a mental note to NEVER answer any question you may ask. Except for this one!!

I have NO blood relatives involved at Fur Harvesters or in the now defunct North American Fur Auction. Not now or in the past.

My connections to FHA and NAFA are as a buyer and a seller.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!!

Hey, I think Nimzy is a decent guy. Does that count?

It only counts if you want to be included on my list of members I won’t talk to..............

Poop

Don't the Schroeder's count?

Beav - you should reread my post. There is a critical word that you must have overlooked.

That is why she said blood and could not berate me om my comment. LLL

Just trying to confirm another serious accusation.
For the record I believe in the auction process. The incentive rewards both parties. It’s absence would be a serious blow to trappers profitably. IMO

I grow tired of all the accusations of unscrupulous actions in their association. I don’t think they are perfect and agree they make mistakes. But I’m not buying into malicious wrongdoing. Thought maybe you could help.

Nimzy I never made any accusations. I was simply pointing out why she would carry their water. She said she buys mostly in the PT room as well so only parroting her comment. LLL

I appreciate the auctions and what they do. From the county, state, and up to the "big" auctions, I'm glad there are entities supporting us and providing an outlet for our wild trapped resources.

LL, read the post she made I think you have it backwards. "The room" I believe is the auction room.

Below the ranchers costs. A true auction works on commission. They don't buy or actually care about production costs Just how fast they can receive and sell product

I agree Blackhammer, a true auction would and should be that way. Nafa had so much investment in those mink farms they were almost co-owners when their bank pulled the plug.

X2

Losing The wild fur shipper council money Is what frosts me. Extremely poor business practices from those board members. Millions of trappers money lost.

wissmiss. Don’t tell nimzy to smoke it although it is now legal in NY. lol

"At the FHA sale in April 2020, I did put together a couple of deals after the auction ended." I guess you all glanced over this. I doubt it was your first time in the PT room. I really do not care one way or another. I simply know why you stick up for shady practices of the auctions especially FHA.

On a side note I do not blame nor do I have any disrespect when it comes to your relation that do work for FHA. They are stand up people who work for not so stand up people. LLL

Nafa was a mink farmer owned and controled coop set up to make north american farmers money.

"The CMBA through North American Fur Producers Inc. is a major shareholder in North American Fur Auctions - a wholely producer owned international fur auction

."AMC Directors, there will be a conference call Thursday June 7,2012. Herman Jansen will be commenting on the recent CMBA Code of Practice Meeting held in Toronto on this coming Tuesday & Wednesday, we will have him start it off the conference call, and share with us what the CMBA proposals are. Then we will excuse Herman from the call and have a brief discussion on the recent May Sale. We realize what an extremely busy time ofyear this is so we will make this as brief as possible. If any AMC Director is unable to make this conference call please let me know in advance, Thanks."

So it starts Friday , does this auction. Have buyers attend in person or internet auction again ? Groenwold buys lots stuff at it or pt deals ?

. Yes and it didn't take long once ranch mink crashed for things to crumble. Saving for a rainy day wasn't in their business plan. Frankly fur auction was a misleading name for their business.

In the end the first two words North American were misleading as they were selling 6 million European ranch mink and only 3.8 million North American.

No I didn't glance over that, but I didn't dwell on it like you. How about your post on a nother thread "I could of sold them for 3$ green to Groenwald then covid came around and he didn't want them." Here you have someone trying to market your worthless coon and you are crying like a baby. Once again suck it up.

I had sent some squirrel there for this 1st auction and they dont show up in my account. Would there be a reason??

I agree tp, I usually sent to NAFA or Wiebke, but NAFA was done and by the time I got my fur finished Wiebke had no interest. I could have sold to Groney for 3 to 5 dollar average but I rolled the dice and shipped. Right now those are your choices.

I didn’t realize they took squirrel. Interested to know how you do on them at auction.

Tail bone in or out?

What is it to you toilet paper? For not dwelling on things you sure like to comment on things I post. She said she made side deals in the PT room. You and her said later that she said she did not. Oh I can read. You are the one needing to read for comprehension. You act like a democrat. Just look over the blatently obvious because it conflicts with your jabbering. Your comments do not mean a thing to me. LLL

Anybody who has dealt with Furharvesters in the past much should know that they have always been about as transparent as a brick wall and have always lied. Their website is also very hard to follow and the numbers don't add up (not sure if this is intentional obscurement or poor tech). That being said, they are the only international auction house of note. Make your decision on whether you want to ship to them or not knowing what you are getting into. In the past when NAFA was still a going concern, no matter how obscure Furharvesters posted auction results were I could compare by either shipping some of my fur to both places, or comparing my fur checks from NAFA to buddies from Furharvesters who had similar quality fur. While I liked dealing with NAFA better and thought I came out ahead through them, Furharvesters was comparable when you cashed the check. Now? Well, you can always sell some at local auction and send some up there, about as good as you can get for comparing since their auction results aren't believable. I sent them a little fur last year that didn't get the offers I wanted at state auction (majority I sold at state auction). Then Canada (and to be fair, most of the world) went Covid crazy. I can't really blame Furharvesters for what happened to their market when the country wouldn't let buyers in. But what I can blame them for is selling some of my PT and sending me a check, without ever telling me what they sold. I never sent them anything this year and did great at the state auction, but I don't know if I have anything on this sale or not, because they have not updated my account since last summer. I know they sold some of my fur because I got a check for it, but I've no idea if they sold all of it or not.

I dealt with NAFA for 20 years and was happy with them, right up until they screwed me out of 20 grand worth of furs. During that time I have dealt multiple times in small quantities with Furharvesters. I have never dealt in larger quantities because I never trusted them and was never happy with their customer service. That being said, their checks have never bounced and always seem to reflect the market fairly. I won't say I will not deal with them in the future, but until and unless their practices change enough to build my trust in them I will not be sending the bulk of my furs to them. I will continue to reserve myself the option of sending furs that I feel I have not been offered a decent price for elsewhere to them. For two reasons; one, it causes both local buyers and buyers at local and state auctions to be required to offer a competitive price if they want my furs. Because they know they can't buy them from me at firesale prices, I simply won't sell them to them at that. And two, I know the risks going in and would rather take the chance on being took by someone I don't trust but have done fairly well with in the past than taking a guaranteed unacceptable price from someone who has made a lowball offer on my furs.

You know up front when you ship to FHA that they will sell at their discretion when and for what price THEY determine-not you.
If you were as good as them at knowing the market you would be running an international auction.

You people that disparage FHA disparage your own.

Agree totally with your first sentence Boco. Second, well I understand your point, and agree to an extent, but I have as much interest in running an international auction as I do in running a car lot. . . none.

Not sure what exactly you mean by the third one, unless you are saying that disparaging FHA is disparaging furharvesters (trappers, hunters, etc.) because that is who runs it.

That is exactly what he is saying Bearcat. A trapper buddy of mine from Michigan talked me into trying FHA back in the early 90's with the pep talk that they were all trappers. The board of directors were all trappers etc, etc. All and all I've been satisfied with FHA, but my local association sales are always first choice...but like you Bearcat, the moment I feel like the bottom feeders are the only bidders on my fur I run that fur up to Canada.

Sometimes that works out and sometimes it just means the bad local offer probably wasn't as bad as I originally thought.

They made no secret that mink was the vast majority of their business. They believed that volume of goods attached more bidders. I was told that the strategy complimented wild fur sales, which was a fraction of the business. I guess it’s like a coyote trapper catching a coon, not really what you’re looking for but you deal with it because it has value.

To me the deep cuts coupled with the time extended were not consider in the business model. Prior things got too good for too long causing complacency.

I also agree an auction company should focus on auction. However capitalism is powered by “greed”

In the beginning the mink ranch only Auction house ALC went down. Bought by the next mink ranch dominated Auction house NAFA who went down. Both owned and run by mink farmers. We will see how the trapper/indigineous people owned one does. At least they are not loaning trappers more than they can sell their fur for.

All I ask is to simply auction off my stuff and to do what you say you will or will not do. They said one thing and did the contrary. Nobody seems to care about that. I just don't get that really. Why did they say they would not sell anything after the sale and then do the contrary. It is not good business. I am sure I am not the only one that is smart enough to see if they are lying about this that there will be more lies down the road. I will not be shipping nothing to another auction house again. LLL

One more time. They lied to the buyers to get them to bid. What you want. It did not work and they needed money, so they sold pt after the sale. They gotta sell something to stay alive. Not what they want, or what we want, but these are the realities of the current situation. I wouldn't send anything to them expecting bidding to occur. I haven't sent anything in 3 years and I still have fur on this sale. Nobody will be bidding on it.

It will be a death by a million cuts instead of all at once. If you cannot be trusted you cannot do business. I know why they did what they did. I just wish they would have said that upfront. They will end up in bankruptcy court as well I believe but I could be wrong. Sad really that the future of the fur industry will be like a Walmart model where one or two companies give trinkets and beads to the trappers and sell them cheap and dressed into the user countries. The days of making good money on the fur industry is over. I guess I was lucky to see the days when it was in it's glory. LLL

Tell me what is the difference between having everything available private treaty as opposed to having an online sale? Wouldn't you want to buy your stuff private treaty when no one else can bid it up, or you can make a special deal.

A democrat now there is a low blow. I'm not the one who can't comprehend the "room" meant the auction room. I'm also not the one telling lies about were one person has made their purchases, or the one playing the woo is me tune and crying a river. You seem to be the one that is spinning the story to fit your narrative. And you'er calling me a democrat.

Sad really that the future of the fur industry will be like a Walmart model where one or two companies give trinkets and beads to the trappers and sell them cheap and dressed into the user countries. The days of making good money on the fur industry is over. I guess I was lucky to see the days when it was in it's glory. LLL

Trinkets and beads-that was what was commonly exchanged in the early fur trade, especially with native fur harvesters and at rondys, pelts were bartered for supplies. Not much liquidity in that industry from the get go, yet we idolize those eras. I guess we are getting exactly what we have been we embrace. If our industry continues to be a lower volume, lower price industry then there are two avenues for most fur to move. Very large, very well heeled firms that can invest and hold if needed or a return of many very small buyers with buying and moving fur as a side line business that can have monies infused from other sources. The one advantage large auction houses have is they don't need to BUY the fur, so they don't have to spend cash for ownership. The draw back of that is they don't have any collateral or equity to use to borrow etc. and thus to maintain liquidity the need to sell other owners assets to exist.

Bryce

I will no longer see or respond to anything you say. Even after showing you the quote where she said she had bought in the PT room you still do not hear it and say I am a liar. You are either ignorant of the english language or you indeed are a liberal. Either way you are now on a very short list of blocked folks. LLL

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't everything go to pt right after it comes off the auction floor. Meaning you can have a number of different types of fur selling for days pt before the auction is over on a 5 or 6 day event.

Since there seems to be a great deal of interest in where and how I buy fur at international auctions, I would like to make the following statement.

I have been attending international fur auctions as a buyer since 1984. Hudson Bay, NAFA, Fur Harvesters, Seattle Fur Exchange, American Legend.

During that time period, I have done the bulk of my buying in the auction room (The Room). The auction room is where there is in person bidding with a live auctioneer. Multiple people may be bidding on a particular lot OR there may be only one bidder.

I have on occasion made purchases in the Private Treaty room (PT room). Some of the time, I have been forced to buy in the PT room. These occasions occur when there is very little interest in an item and those pages are withdrawn. The auctioneer will announce “pages so to so are withdrawn. See Mr X in the PT room”.

I have also made purchases in the PT room for other reasons - didn’t get what I wanted/needed in The Room, last minute order, values on an item were lower than I anticipated, hadn’t looked at the samples before they were auctioned, etc.

I do not have the statistics to back this up but I would say that overall 80% or so of my purchases were made in The Room.

I have always contended and will continue to contend that the PT room is an essential part of the auction process.

Over and out.

Question... I know we’re only 2 days from the start of the April auction but can anyone tell me if both buyers and sellers can follow the auction on the Internet. Lot to Lot ? I use to buy some fur through NAFA. Not a lot of fur less than $8000.00 a year mostly wolves and arctic fox and 1 lot of coon and 1/2 lot of ranch mink if they were available. I only have 2 small clothing accounts and 1 gift Type account I buy for. This year i tried to get a buyers account but struggled to get it done with getting a response. After finally getting a response 2 weeks ago the policy was I needed to place 35% Down of the possible amount Of fur I was going to buy. At NAFA I would attend in person and would settle up at the end of every days auction. I choose not to this time with FHA because of the state of the fur industry was in and I am very Leary on giving FHA money on fur I might buy or not buy. Just seems like this year FHA is in some disarray. 10% seemed fair but not 35% down. I thought I would follow along the auction catalog and try to buy some items PT at the end of each days auction. As a buyer I would feel better about it. Just give them my CC card number and have them ship fur to dressers. Please post if you guys now if we can follow the auction on internet live lot to lot. So far with 2 days left before auction no answer from FHA.
Thanks. Marty

Even though you won't read this. I am sure as heck not going to cry about it. I consider it a benefit to be block from your stupidly.

I hope that arrogant arse blocks me too.

That comment will probably get It done. LOL
But you can't blame LLL for being ticked off for the way things were handled.

Nah bozo I don’t block people for just being mentally incompetent. Unfortunately when you quoted toilet paper 2 you actually unblocked him. He is just down right illiterate and not worth my time. At least your fun to trigger.😂

I think I met you once in North bay-you were bragging about catching 700 coons.

I've been blocked by Lippy Larry another page out of a democrats play book. "cancel culture". If you can't win the argument just cancel me.

I see it as him being ticked off at the current market conditions, then taking it out on anybody he can. Nobody is happy the way things are. That don't make it right to say someone "carries their water", or calling people illiterate, mentally incompetent and other insults.

I agree with you teepee. That's how I read it too.

Some of you whiners just need to get over it. The bottom line is you have a choice on where to sell your fur. If you feel you are being treated unfairly move on. If you have been trapping raccoons the past couple of years in this down market then that is just plain dumb. You would be spending more money on gas than what the fur would bring in. One positive would be if you are doing wildlife management to have more birds. If you were doing it to make money, then stupid is, stupid does.

I would believe Fha Downey statement about not selling anything PT at the last Aug sale was not never again but rather more a statement they would not PT any goods right after the sale like what happens after most every auction sale.
Reading it like they would not PT any goods until the next auction is not how the system works.
Not PT any good right after the sale is what he was telling the buyers to try and get them to buy as much as possible during the actual auction.

Selling goods PT months after the auction happens after every sale right up until they build new catalogues for the next auction happens.
Unfortunately the market sucks and the PT sales reflect that situation.

Closing off PT sales right after the live auction is strategy to get the buyers to buy.
Selling PT sales between auctions is a normal practice.
Where they failed was not sending out statements and or updating the shippers accounts with the checks they send out.

They call it the skin game for a reason.

Once your fur has been consigned a shipper has lost any control. I know that is obvious but it doesn't seem like some get that. Every auction house I've been involved has said one thing and done another. This isn't the first time FHA has done it and won't be the last.

Hopefully they get their crap together and be more user friendly for both buyer and seller. Its obvious they're behind the 8 ball on many fronts.

Nope not me boco. When I am coon trapping I can catch 700 in a few weeks. In a season you are an amateur around here at 700. Besides I have never had any desire to go to Ontario. LLL

When they hold the live auctions they streamed it but the online auction is buyer's only.....

Ranch mink sale just got over and was fairly successful. Dark males were a bit of a struggle. Mutations were very good. Some of the best male prices broke over $80.

Hoping that FHA can get some money made for us for the wild fur.

To me the biggest part of the fur industry that is in shambles is the ranch fox. Just no demand there other than the blue fox.

Didn't Denmark destroy all its mink that would be on the market now? That should help.

Mink99 - which ranch mink sale are you referring to? The FHA ranch mink sale closes Saturday morning the 17th, starting at 7AM eastern time.

Totally agree, however this statement of realism is grounds to launch an Offensive! Which would be ok if you made ur point and let it go.



I sincerely hope they recognize they made a mistake and work to correct this practice. As usual the timing of the decision was.....(it’s Murphy’s law in hindsight on a decision made with foggy foresight).

Being the last remaining international fur auction they have a big responsibility towards transparency.

I would really like to become one of there clients but this cloud causes hesitation.

What are you waiting for? Afraid your opinion may line up with mine when it happens to you? If I were you I would sell in the country. No reason to risk it. It is a rich statement though.....

Nimzy said "I would really like to become one of there clients but this cloud causes hesitation."

Patience is virtue😃

I agree with that. LLL

Would somebody explain what the heck #128515; is? I see it from time to time and haven't a clue.

Its secret auction code.

If fha had told trappers how cheap they sold their fur for in December,how many would have been motivated to ship fur in Janurary?

That December money was a Christmas present. Had nothing to do with what you sold PT.

American mink exchange just had there sale the past three days. Results on their website.

just done on an iPhone and apparently this site doesn’t pick it up

And you thought It might. LOL

I got a small percentage of my "Christmas money" in late January with a note attached saying they wanted to get some money in my hands for Christmas. I guess it was for 2021 Christmas. LLL

Nimzy is waiting for the market to improve enough to sell, it will most likely take a successful international auction to push rats to an acceptable level.

More. Wasn’t the motivation this year about solely to move goods? Saw lots of material moving real cheap on YouTube. Everyone appeared content, some overjoyed.

Any buyers out there attending this on-line event? If so is there any articles of interest that you can see on Day 1? In a perfect world it would be nice to follow the catalogue and be able to watch it ourselves, but I think I'd have better luck trying to clone a dinosaur at this point.

Yes. Wild silver fox, wild cross fox, muskrats.

Thanks for the update wissmiss. Feel free anytime to update us, I certainly won't mind. : )

I have over 500 muskrats, 200 coon, and variety of other odds and ends so it's good to hear any information.

Do you know, did FHA have starting limits on articles or is it a straight open bidding process?

Thanks

FHA has starting values on every lot.

I was able to find out prices on my PT sales and it motivated me to find another market before the March pickup. That said, I hope they do well on this sale.

How did u find out those walleyed?

You can call.

Is the FHA on-line auction going on right now? Does it have sort of an eBay-eques style where the potential buyers can see if there are bids on lots already and what the value of those bids are? Or I'm confused on what FHA leadership decided/got forced on doing...?

Bidding in the FHA on line auction is happening right now. Bidders can see what lots have been bid on and what the high bid is. Bidders are identified by number.

The auction is ending on a staggered basis. Bids start closing on the 17th at 7 AM eastern time. The auction ends on the 20th about 7 PM eastern time.

By way of comparison to prior online auctions, is activity about the same or increased if you can tell wissmiss.

NonPCfed. Good luck getting a answer to your questions. I was a buyer for 30 years off and on with NAFA and a mink rancher for 10 years or so. FHA wanted me to Jump through more hoops then a circus dog just to get a account open. It’s their rules and their company so they make the rules. Next year i will be spending my small $8000.00 fur purchase with state fur Assoc auctions or buy direct from trappers unless things are run different with them next year. Not going to place 35% in escrow with FHA on fur I might or not buy and then ask them to give that money back at the end of auction. Any guess how long it would take to give me MY OWN 2500.00 back ? I bet a lot longer than me giving them the money. I think the chances of a huge train wreck this auction is going to be high. Like I said we buyers don’t have to buy from FHA auction but it sure would be nice it the rules were more buyer friendly. Plus Biden Just announced Today big sanctions on Russia. I hope auction goes well for them if not it will kill the fur industry for this year and for the next buying year too. MD

Overall, the bidding is more active than the on line sale in April of 2020.

Nancy,

Can you give us any insight on the bids
so far on muskrat lots, or is that info
being held back by FHA for the time
being until fur pickups are accomplished ?

w

I can see what the bidding is doing by following the catalog. I could give you my opinion on muskrat bidding, but I prefer not to. There is a reason.

The bidding catalog and prices are supposed to be confidential. Things like explaining how the sale works is general information. Prices being bid are confidential. If FHA feels that I am sharing confidential information, they can shut down my buyer account.

It is more important for me to have an open buyer account than sharing confidential information. Sorry.

Having said that, I think shippers that have muskrats on this sale will be happy. If the trend will continue to the July sale, I have no idea.

I sent an email and asked if they could provide more specific information on what I had sold. I got a reply the very next day with a break down of what had sold and averages. HOWEVER, that was back in March. I certainly wouldn't expect a quick response now in the middle of the auction. At this point you may as well wait it out until accounts are updated.

And by the way, Walleye101 is not the "Groney Rocks" Walleyed.

Anybody know which day beaver are going to be given away?

BTW, I just noticed on the catalogue that my western cats are not being offered on this sale.

Beaver are closing Sunday about noon eastern time. That would be about 9 AM in western Oregon.

Thank you.

Thanks for the info Wissmiss,much appreciated.

I still dont understand how a "trapper-owned" auction company operates when so few of their shippers know what's going on.....and an auctuon is currently underway....selling these same shipper's fur.

Reading thru this thread and WissMiss, as a buyer, is the only one that seems to have any current info....wow.

I just spoke with my FHA director today-he picked up 3 bags of fur for me.And we discussed the fur market,FHA and the upcoming auctions among other things.
I think it is good that Wissmiss as a buyer at the current auction is willing to share info with shippers from a buyers perspective.I have bought fur from the auction house for personal use and attended a few sales,and it is quite different from a buyers perspective.

Others on here have gotten answers to their queries with a phone call.

I have always attended the Annual general meetings at the convention and all the operations are open for questions and discussions while the membership is voting etc.

Well, what did the director say about the market?

Its turning around for some species.
That is no secret.

It is and has been at rock bottom and below production costs. It has no where else to go but away maybe. I guess time will tell but they have been saying it would take five years to come out of the 2014 dip and of course that was before COVID 19, NAFA going broke and everything else you could think of. Excuse my pessimism. LLL

Hang on to your hats and buy more traps boys, it's coming.

I'm feeling it too Steven. Don't know why....

I think I've got more traps than I can run, but I'm going to find out.

Why wait? I’m out catching shedders yet for the July sale.

Hurry up and move Dave.

Carl, they have and will print so much money that the price of fur and other comodities will have no place to go but up.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the middle man (grooney or auction for example) can work harder for the producer or the end user who do you think they have been working the hardest for

The "middle man" is always working for themselves, not the producer or the end user. The advantage of an auction house commission is that there is incentive to sell at highest price possible, as opposed to a fur buyer who's profit margin improves by buying at lowest price possible.

Of course the disadvantage of an auction house is they have to move product to make any money, and some times the highest price possible is not satisfactory to the producer.

Of course, on the other hand the auction house needs to keep fur moving to stay in business...so there is that.

And commission On both the buyer and the seller.

If this internet stuff finally becomes acceptable and works I can see it being advantageous to pushing prices.

Grade consistency will be key and obtainable IMO. Other than that what could possibly go wrong? Lol

Their vids on utube show the fur very well but not the leather.

If I'm buying fur and spending my hard earned money I want to see that fur up close and personal.

I would definitely want to look at fur in person if I was buying off a trapper.
I would buy graded fur from FHA over the phone.
If I called FHA and said I wanted 50 LM Hvy dk slt dmg beaver pelts I know exactly that is what I would get.

Going by this article it seems amazing they can pull off any kind of event in Ontario:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...e_in_the_name_of_covid_suppression_.html

I'm going out in a few minutes to check traps-People can go to work same as always.Those rightwingnut sites sure know how to play people,lol.
Just dont need our hospital ICU's swamped during the new spike,and until we reach the 80% vaccine number that is a real possibility.
I support the lockdowns.

Lucky my backyard is wilderness and open ocean but some people aren’t so lucky.

There you go again. You realize you are attacking half the US right. You are a government parrot. Lockdowns have not proven anything except it ruins economies and rises the suicide and addiction rates. LLL

Wish they where showing more wild fur...

Almost done with ranch mink. Fisher will start in about 5 minutes. Then lynx. And that’s all for today.

Coyotes first thing tomorrow morning. 4 AM my time. Ugh!!!!!

Coyotes...yippee ki yaah!!!

Yep, and Groney's commission (operating costs + profit) is extracted from both the buyer and seller as well.

Well If we were all In the skin game we would be doing the same thing. Can't fault anyone from making a profit.
I just don't like the way groney plays the game. If a rat Is worth $4.00 then buy It at $4.00.

Fixed it for you beav lol

mud, don't give away buyers' secrets. Not kosher!

Lol

This is where it is really at. The reason fur gets given away at every stop. "I do it for the fun" or "I just do it for the exercise" or "Fishing or duck hunting don't pay either" and we wonder why there is no market.

I had a conversation with Gary G. at the beginning of last trapping season where I told him I was not going to trap for a loss. He told me I should do it for the love of trapping and to return to my first love. I told him he was nuts and I was not in love with anything that is going to make him more money than me. LLL

For sure it for fun, unless adc trapping, no matter what u do, u got be almost pay to go , no money in it at all , I probly cover gas fee, not sure

Come on beaver! Hope I sell some this sale. Don't need to get 2013 prices....just something.


(After all, I just do it for fun).

I trap because I enjoy trapping. I love being on the landscape I enjoy honing my observation skills.and always can come up with another challenge. A buddy said to me this fall “you know, the last thing on my mind before I go to sleep is trapping and it’s the first thing I think about when I get up! “ That sums it up. It’s a mindset.


I sell fur for money.

Coyote bid closing is under way. Nothing earth shattering on the first two pages. Think I will go back to sleep.

Are they getting bids at least ?

They are on the middle of page 4. 100% sold so far.

It isn’t until page 9 that there are no bids.

Well I sold a few than lol. Thanks

Why should you let somebody else profit off your fur if you can't profit from it as well?

When I trap for fun I have out maybe a dozen sets. All easy to get to.


Is Canada still crying zombie virus or letting buyers in?

Shut tight, cant risk the virus or variants getting in. And I never trap just for fun.

I wonder if there will be any interest in the eastern this time around.

Trapping and selling are two completely different strategies. Unless of course, the entire industry completely collapsed.

The fur buyers are trying to make the money back they lost when the market dropped, they won't raise the price until they have to, hopefully FHA will keep the rest of them honest by establishing the price., Or trappers refusing to sell .

any more updates on the yotes nancy? are the crappier ones seeing good clearances?

They should be on to beaver by now. WHICH I TRAP FOR FUN.



................................But my back says putting up 100 beaver that last week before pick up might have been more work than fun. Especially with sore ribs from a fall.

Otter is just now finishing up, paler skins sold 100%, some for 21/2 times evaluations. Darks not so much, but a much better internet sale.

Are they not showing sales results on their website?

good question..their web-site does not give me any link

Some otter at 2.5 times valuation? Would that be $80-$90?

Nope, they're buying blue pelts, good slts and smaller skins that had pretty low evaluations for the mid thirty's. Top money otter was a lot of pale's for $61. Lighter brown colors appear to have sold out.

Maybe the younger generation of Tibetan monks are rebels.

As long as they have money, that's fine. You probably right on the money. Beaver starting now, your fav.

could you keep us posted on the beavers wolfer?

Ditto on the beaver updates.

I've got 8 in lot 10106, another 8 in 11093. Those would give me a good notion of how my stuff does.

Carl - check your PMs.

Well this seems like a positive trend:

Ontario announced coronavirus rules that dramatically expanded police power — but backpedaled after outrage

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ontario-retracts-coronavirus-restrictions-playgrounds-police

Update on Facebook

I walked away from a great paying job when I was 54. I wanted to enjoy my life more, and that included trapping. If making lots of money was important to me, I would have stayed working.

You only have so much time on this Earth. If trapping is what you love to do, but you won’t trap because of the current pricing, some will wake up some morning as old men who let life go by them.

2X

weird how ranch mink offering gets destroyed and wild fur starts to boom, especially during a pandemic with an internet auction only. I hope ranch mink numbers continue to stay low.

I was 58 and I lived the dream.

Very nice mud,

Apparently turning down Gary Groenewold's offer
yesterday of a $3.73 average was a good idea for
my small catch of muskrats.

While the results of the FHA internet auction are promising,
we've got a bit farther to go before profitability returns for
trappers targeting muskrat.

It's nice to hear a little bit of good news.

w

Yes walleyed, this time at least I think you did right. Interesting timing too. Yesterday’s auction results and yesterday’s offer to you. I suspect your rats and sizes would normally exceed auction averages too. Hopefully an improving trend developing. I’ll have over 200 rats and a dozen otter in the July auction. We shall see.

Dream Beav ?

Or Nightmare ?

w

And some have trapped enough for ten lifetimes and made lots of money doing it. LLL

Better run it by Manley. lol

Anyone have any break down on those rat lots?

The rough maths of that, and allowing for 11% commission deduction at FHA, is 22% clear more on this sale at the $5.12 US average reported.

Although low ranch mink numbers are playing a part the increase in dollar creation is playing the largest role. Look at every other commodity price out there for comparison. Fur follows at a slower pace but eventually, it will get there.

It's no surprise that rat prices are increasing. Boco the prophet has been proselytizing we will see 8 dollar rats. He ain't wrong, just 12 to 18 months out.

With ranch mink number where they are at and the unprecedented increase in the money supply that will lead to a weakening dollar it's going to be a fun ride for trappers. Sorry Larry but coon will lag IMHO although they will get there.

It will take booming oil prices to pull coon out of the abyss in my not so humble opinion. My crystal ball on that is foggy at best.

You pay attention to the gas pumps lately? Oil is moving north as well

Will an $8 rat 12 months from now by less goods than a $5 rat now?

No. 12 month from now $5 will be worth less than now but $8 won't be worth less than $5.

If it is, the price of rats will be the very least of our worries.

So In other words the fur market Is still in the crapper. And you may see $8.00 rats but the average Is till going to be In $5.00 to $6.00 range and that isn't cutting It.

With what's going on in this country the price of rats is already the least of our worries, but I do find fur prices a nice distraction.

Coon sell yet ? So $5.12 USD price but minus 11 per cent commission off the $5.12 plus $10 shipper charge on whatever u send ? An rats could be from many different sections in the average given ?

Give the man a cigar!!!

These guys aren’t optimistic for an $8 top. They’re predicting averages. I find there foresight a bit weak after experiencing the deep cuts and mink correction. Looking for new highs myself.

Gary, you old hard headed marine, I'm not expecting 8 dollar tops Like Mr. Horicon himself I'm expecting 8 dollar averages.

I can't control what goes on in this country on a macro level any more than you can. If the dollar loses 40 percent of its value in the next twelve months what is going on right now will look like Sunday school.

If that happens I'm headed to ND LOl

You should have already went and I mentioned it to you more than once. You can break even at 4 dollars.

If I could go I'd be there.

Yeah, before gas prices go over $4/gallon.

So the $5.12 rat average is precommision ?

How did beavers go?

Not with $350.00 license fee and $300.00 a week rent on the house.You would just about have $800.00 spent before you set a trap.
But If the rats were there and conditions right I think I could catch 800 rats In a week. And those ND rats will grade out as centrals so there not going to Make $7.00 averages let alone $8.00.

You’re stuck on NAFA grading beav. Rats are eastern or western. No centrals in FHA. And very few go western. Not sure where Dakota rats would go though.

I didn't say seven dollar averages this spring, I said $4. You could make money at $4 and you'd get it. All it takes is a little patience. You wouldn't get rich but you'd have had a vacation that would have paid for itself. Not to be crass but how many more seasons you think you have left in you?

The oil boom in ND is dead for now, find a cheaper abode. Get your gear ready for next fall, don't make excuses, and rent a house for a month. I'll come out and stay a couple of nights and give you a hundred bucks, I'll chase coyotes with the thermal.

The house Is right In the middle of my trapping grounds. May not have any seasons left If I don't get those knees fixed.

Nothing to see here. Disappointed rat market wasn't better. Internet sale I'm sure playing a part. No reason for Groeny or any country buyer to be kept honest quiet yet Sad to say the market misses NAFA IMO. Don't know about coon but I think other items are going to get better

Your upset that they almost doubled in price with 100% clearance in these current conditions?

Rats doubled In price? I sold mine for around a $4.00 average so your saying rats sold at $8.00 averages.

I'm saying compared to the last auction. Let's compare apples with apples.

Got ya.

The last FHA sale doesn't matter as much as current market conditions.



So expand your trapping grounds. You are going to have recalibrate anyway, I guarantee you won't recognize the landscape from the last time you were there. Aren't you on Medicare? Get the knees fixed! Your are going to start to echo Coonman soon

they waived the commission maybe

The average Is before commission. So $5.12 - 11% commission = $4.56 US

To get 4.50 ave. you would need about a 6 dollar basis.

I thought there also a freight or shopping charge of $10 at least, u might made a little more at auction than in country a month ago , rats maybe go up right along , didn't coon get auction yet ?

Raccoon close tomorrow - Monday the 19th - at 915 AM eastern time. That is 815 AM in Iowa.

Any word on how coon did besides the first lot of Canadian going for 20 bucks...?

Ya how coon do ? Probly not good as nothing posted on it , I doubt much interest at FHA sales on coon, groenwold probly has coon sale connections but at low prices on trade

They are done with the coon sale. Lots of unsold pelts, particularly on the lower end. Seemed to be spurts of interest.

Last September I had 3 2xl-3xl heavy rats sell for $6.00 this sale similar rats were $7- to $8.70 which seems like a very good increase but the average grade rats did not go up nearly as much in percentage so now we are in a very select rat market, like coyote etc. I had 71 exl heavies,2xl-3xl semis and falls bring $3.50 to $4.00 last fall, they are up about $1.00 now Still did better on large, xl rats in January and no 11% off either. Will see how July goes if the average market comes along with the very best. Not one of my coons sold and some were selects and good colors. Good thing I put them up myself, if I hired it done I would have to give them the coons and I would still get a bill.

Bryce

I bet coons won't be lot better this coming season. In the entire season , if better price, not much , how about wild mink ?

my beaver did decent...best brought $36...I'm happy with that, avg $14....sent them 34 new ones yesterday

Anybody hear any red fox numbers?

those are probly not hatter beavers though?

Top price was $28.00. Not a lot of interest. Plenty left for the July sale.

I had a few SELECT females go for $1.50! (mink)

Thanks

it was just a mix of what I caught last winter/spring that was leftover

I sold one of two early caught male mink for $2.50. The other which was graded the same but not in the same lot was not sold.

Bryce

On what?

What I was thinking too. On what?

I see my coyote sales have been updated, but nothing else has. Did ok on coyotes, 44.60 average for eastern with only one held over

Did coons and bobcats move at all?

Try to keep up fellas.

Sold one mink. 1X-Lg 1 part 2 Brn for $1.00.

I had 4 mink out of 17 that were $10 each and my average was $6.46. My rats averaged $4.11 but they weren't the best with quite a few smaller ones. 17 of my coyotes sold but only averaged $19.85 so not a very good bunch. I did pick out 5 of my best and had them tanned so that didn't help my average. Still not sure if I sold any coon.

I was answering patrapper1989 question about red fox. Guess I should have included the question in response. Typical senior moments. LOL

Thanks ADC. Glad to see I didn’t confuse everyone.

Gfw bought all my mink at $5 average , early to late, $4 on female, $7 male

I averaged $30.67 on coyote, $4.47 on mink, $11.71 on beaver and updated $3.90 on coon. PT earlier averaged $3.47 on muskrat.

I got to go see Guy here soon to see what he's paying for muskrat and I have 2 leftover mink. 1 male,1 female. And a lot of green beaver.

People w the real low mk prices need to look at the lot numbers. If the numbers were not in the catalogue then they PT sold since last Sept. Same w the 'rats. Prices on those PT sales real low. Price of mk and especially 'rats for those listed in the catelogue i.e. actually sold the last few days on the sale r better. 'Rats pretty well doubled over last year's sales and PT sales over the winter. 'Rats looking up but mk. still in the toilet even w improved prices.

How many coon or section sold an for what prices

Hope you did not have many up there. If you did I hope you didn't need the money. LLL

He didn't have any up there and he does need the money.

Selling rats private treaty in September was criminal.

I said that a month ago and was chastised. They sold all the good coon too for next to nothing and said nothing until everyone had already shipped them more. LLL

Nope. That's it that private treaty is BS. I won't send up there again till they get rid of it

I assume your coon got pt sold then? Not on the catalog? LLL

Well, I'm pretty happy with the coyote sales!!!!!!

Need so schoolin, what does TB stand for in regards to bobcats?

Poor belly fur-stained/bare spot around the teats on a female.

Thank you sir, kinda what I figured.

a lot of speculation buyers from what I understand last weekend. MD

PT sales in the days following an auction don't give much heartburn. Selling something like rats that have had the potential to rise in the middle of the selling season gives me gutache.

In my opinion, some of the goods - rats for example - were bought to put into production.

When damaged rats are bring 2-5 times value, they are going to be used, not for speculation.

Value 30 cents. Sold for 1.50

Value 50 cents. Sold for 1.70

Value 2.50. Sold for 4.10

Yes that is correct

Later today 4 coon showed up sold. 5xl-4xl 11 A color $4.50, two selects sold one 4xl and one 3xl $14.50 and $14.00 each. One 2xl 11 A color sold for $2.50. I have 18 left.
I saw some averages and the 71 rats that sold PT last fall right after the September sale would have brought close to $185 dollars more this sale. I can understand the need to sell for liquidity purposes but the FHA also gave up nearly $20 in increased commission fees, in some sense we both lost. If the prices offered at the last sale were not acceptable I don't see the advantage of still selling PT at lowered prices.
Bryce

Same page just different book the fur market still sucks.

September sales are evidence of how market weakness helps drive mental weakness. Sentiments/confidence must be pretty low to unload goods at those values. It’s a bad deal all the way around but dwelling on it only reinforces hesitation when momentum is needed going forward. Monopolization of the fur industry will only hurt producers. I’m spinning the positive news and running

I'll throw in some Positive Mental Attitude, but it still won't buy me a cup of coffee

they updated my account, sold a 2x select C color coon for tree fiddy

western bobcat. quite a drop from 750 to 1000


70136 1X SELECT SEMI XXPL-SPOTTED A 99070366 1 $176.00 $176.00

Thanks to the folks posting their results!! Much appreciated and more welcome.

I was hoping for rats and mink to improve more but it is what it is.

Yep those L-O-W priced Select female mink were PT sold.

Well I see now people are catching on to why I was so mad about all the pt sales before an actual auction. If they had updated the accounts no one would have shipped a thing except for a few. Those few would still ship to NAFA if they opened back up though I believe. Live and learn....or not.

Is one of the factors affecting the low PT prices for mink because mink to not store very well long term? I only had one left and it sold for a dollar but that mink has been dead for two years.

my fur is there from a year ago. i will be seeking options this summer

GFW had higher averages on otter and raccoons.

Believe I saw somewhere many moons ago that "TB" stands for "Titty Belly".

If Im reading these posts right....you guys could have sold your coon green to Groenwold for as much or more than FHA just sold it dry for.

Yep.

This still doesn't rival the debacle of NAFA's Oct. internet sale years back where they sold cheap.

Where GFW was paying 3 to 5 for southern raccoon, FHA paid between 1 and 2.50.

Finally sold the last four mink that have been at FHA since January 2018. $3.50 for all. No, not average.

I figure this will quiet the Groeny bashers up for awhile.

This is a point worth expanding on. No one is happy with the PT prices FHA sold for as the fur market bottomed out recently. However, it MAY be that they needed to move some fur just to stay solvent. Would anyone have been better off had they gone under, our fur was moved through the bankruptcy process, and one more of our marketing options went away?

I see now why my lot numbers that were not listed in the current sale catalog, and sold PT before the auction, prices were not updated on my account. Like someone else stated here, they knew it would stop many from shipping more fur to FHA.

With these auction results, next fall While I’m deer hunting during our 7 week deer season. My traps will be resting in the trapper shack.

Just to be clear......
I was referring to the NAFA sale as the boom started about 10 years ago and fur sold for about 30% more at auction than it did a couple months earlier at their internet sale.

Hung mine up 3-4 years ago Squash, the Chinese can come trap their own for that money. I'm not their slave labor.

I still have a Red Fox that has been at FHA for quite a while.

No, actually GWF pays the same to everyone. Bring in first week blue coon and you get $3. Bring in your nice prime stuff later on you get the same. He does not buy on quality, he buys on average. It does not pay to sell your higher quality coon to GWF.

What come on now, it was covid and no one working, and it was cold out, and ......pretty smart play on their part oh here's some Christmas money stuff is really selling blah blah.

I will be trapping next season for sure. Due to all the money people got from the government and unemployment I was to busy to trap last season. I did set a few out at times but this year,thanks to all the work I have had, I will be trapping at least the whole month of November and part of December. I won't send fur in anymore since the NAFA deal. I will sell go Trevor Barnes and get a fair price judge by quality of fur I produce. I am doi g this as a vacation a d any money made will just be a bonus. The more guys that don't trap the better for me so by all means, keep those traps in the shed this coming season. I think a lot of trappers a afraid to ship fur and don't know where else to turn besides GFW and they pay poorly compared to Barnes. Good luck to all of you that decide to trap. Critters still need to be thinned out in most places or we will have problems later.

And this is why the prices will never advance. Why pay anything when they are pleased with just a little gas money? You are helping to get rid of the fur industry and don't even realize it. Less trappers means less of those who can defend the way of life. Less fur means they will use something else. This industry in a whole is in big trouble. As for thinning of critters, well what is wrong with getting paid to do that? It may be the only thing paying in the trapping world before long. Oh well carry on. LLL

Looks like it dont pay to sell your higher quality coon thru FHA.

If I quit trapping then all is already lost
There is a big difference between the hobby trapper putting a few pelts on the market and a professional trapper putting a thousand or more coon on the market himself
Some people trap solely for money and others for pleasure some a little of both
A one size fits all solution is not out there

It dont pay to sell any quality coon anywhere right now. Imagine being an auction house where 1/2 the shippers are complaining that you sold too cheap while the other half complains that they have fur sitting there for 2-3 years.

2x Turtledale.

Larry, you don't suppose part of the reason the coon price doesn't advance is you Iowa boys didnt take a vacation the last three years or four years?

So what's your excuse for the dismal auction prices???

I would like to see a NAFA type organization be created again but probably won't happen. Have it be for wild fur only for trappers. I took great care putting up my fur and it paid off in many top lots which made my day. When I went to the ITA convention in the fall the NAFA agent gave me a free hat, pin and tee shirt. These days if I sell to locally extra nice pelts get no more pay than shoddy put up pelts. So I sat out last season as I was still upset with the bad NAFA check of a couple years ago. Such a rotten deal not not getting paid anything and then the rubber check bank charges. If only NAFA had ben run for wild fur only. It was run by trappers but they made a mistake and let ranch fur in. Thank you for your time.

Was this suppose to be tongue in cheek?
You literally just described FHA........just saying.

Older article but you get the idea

https://www.northernontariobusiness...hub-of-10m-fur-trade-industry-303-363736

So better coon sold for what ? $15 top ?

Auctions have more "piles" than country buyers so tops means squat to someone who sends a collection. Average is most important when someone gives one on their whole collection.

They didn't sell alot of coon so there is no accurate average price, I believe FHA told me over a year ago there is no pt room sales but there is, sound to me the low price of sales were either from shoppers complain about not sell it FHA need move stuff to make money an sold cheap last summer late, or both, groenwold told me a month ago that last summer that no coon were selling an if did a coon go price was a couple bucks

And this is why the prices will never advance. Why pay anything when they are pleased with just a little gas money? You are helping to get rid of the fur industry and don't even realize it. Less trappers means less of those who can defend the way of life. Less fur means they will use something else. This industry in a whole is in big trouble. As for thinning of critters, well what is wrong with getting paid to do that? It may be the only thing paying in the trapping world before long. Oh well carry on. LLL[/quote]

Larry, you don't suppose part of the reason the coon price doesn't advance is you Iowa boys didnt take a vacation the last three years or four years?
[/quote]

Kinda like some diary farmers I know. They complain about barely breaking even with low milk prices, but they keep adding cows! Like digging a hole to put dirt in...

Kinda like some diary farmers I know. They complain about barely breaking even with low milk prices, but they keep adding cows! Like digging a hole to put dirt in...[/quote]

Did not trap a single coon this season and probably won't until they get this mess dealt with. The market was still decent and I was told by GFW and FHA that it looked like things were going to get better when I trapped these coon. I trapped them all before Dec. 15 2020 way before the China flu. At the time I was trapping they were seeing 12.00 averages in the country. By the time my coon were ready to sell the crap had hit the fan. It takes a few weeks to scrape a thousand coon. LLL

Dairy farmers are looking at nearly $20 milk now and for the near future with premiums. That will be countered by $6 corn and nearly $15 beans on the board for the near term. Commodities usually correlate quite highly but with the COVID shut down more essential commodities like oil, lumber, food, feed, minerals etc. go up quickly, fur is a commodity but not nearly as essential and we will just need to wait our turn and what we don't know is when will it be our turn again and what will be included.

Bryce

Dairy farmers are looking at nearly $20 milk now and for the near future with premiums. That will be countered by $6 corn and nearly $15 beans on the board for the near term. Commodities usually correlate quite highly but with the COVID shut down more essential commodities like oil, lumber, food, feed, minerals etc. go up quickly, fur is a commodity but not nearly as essential and we will just need to wait our turn and what we don't know is when will it be our turn again and what will be included.

Bryce

Sure they do. GFW always has a top lot. One at 15 and the rest at 3 and some no value. It really is the same except you don't get a fancy certificate and a stupid hat. I have enough top lot certificates I could wallpaper my shop. It used to mean something but now they hand them out like participation trophies. I had a coon in the top lot of the last internet sale that sold for 25.00 and they never even sent me my certificate. The postage was as much as their commission I guess. LLL

More results just posted.

Just avreged 1.70 US 579 large -1x squiral. Thats over 2$ can heck hasent been thst good for many years.

I will trap next year for sure. When it comes to coon I will do so to keep my farmer land owners satisfied that I will remove them, even if they don't wind up being sold. There is a sense of responsibility at times when land owner have let you trap their property for 40 plus years. As to rats, yes that will happen. I am watching a lot of the smaller sloughs dry up all ready. We need some moisture or we will have a lot of what has been good rat habitat the last two years dry and dry early.

Bryce

I can't find results posted , whatever the results, is this what the overall market is like or does auction set the market ?

Sorry Coonman I should have been more clear. Accounts were updated to include the rest of the sale but no further overall sale results released yet.

So will you skin and finish your five dollar coon and how many do you need to trap to clear your conscience of guilt? If you feel that bad you could always eat them. LLL

People need to stop trapping coon, period. Things change, I'm all for taking care of land owners but this market is so poor I would need to get paid to remove any.

Been so busy, forgot all about the timing of this auction. Just logged in and looked at my FHA account.

My Michigan coyotes did "fair" compared to previous years but one of my bobcats sold for $260.00.
Thats an all-time high for me. The world has officially gone nuts. LOL

-NC

Had a couple squirrels go for $4.30 (5.40cad)... Maybe I'll just walk around plinking tree rats next year and let someone else flesh coons for the same money lol.

A lot would depend upon when I would harvest them and how many. If I catch them in mid-November I would put them up. They don't need to go to market during these lower price times. Does not cost much to store 50-100 coons for a couple years, waiting for things to improve. I don't feel guilty about trapping fewer coons. To me there is a difference between guilt and responsibility. Farmers continue to produce milk even during those years when production costs are not covered, spending a week and a $100 of gas money to harvest a couple hundred dollars worth of coon is not a big commitment in resources for me as a retired person.

Bryce

There are many reasons for trapping. 2 farmers near me want coons, coyotes, and beaver removed on a regular basis. Do I charge? Of course not! In return my 2 sons get exclusive hunting rights. btw total almost 2000 acres.

As long as we continue to sell coon for 5 dollars and accept that we will never get to 10.

As long as you supply at 10 you will never get to 30. You will never get 30!

I remember a local guy that trapped 1000's of nutria back in the hay day when we averaged over $10. When prices dropped significantly below that he kept jawing at us to stop supplying the market until the price went up over $10 again. Over and over we were chastised for suppressing the prices by continuing to produce at the lower prices.

Well here we are nearly 40 years later and PNW nutria average below $3 at auctions and very few are pelted. The nutria market died because too few are produced to interest the Chinese ( or any other manufacturers).

I prefer to believe in the law!

The supply of my product appears to be down nearly 80 percent from two years ago and prices appeared to nearly double since my Xmas check with the perfect 90 percent clearance number you want.

Im pretty sure most farmers get reimbursed for animal damage anyhow. Some when I ask permission say that fox isnt bothering me. You helped them for all those years. how much longer do you feel you need to help them? New age farming wrecked a lot of mrat trapping around here with the tiled ditches, straightening of streams and planting right up to the creek.

Farmers here in WI don't get paid for coon damage. Fox is not an issue for farmers and in reality neither are the coyotes. Coon and rats here are more of the issue. Rats crawl up tile lines and die and plug them until they rot away. Coon do corn damage but also ruin plastic pile covers, feed in bags and also den in areas. Most of the farms I trap are smaller dairies and operate in more traditional methods. I do have 3 large farms and they like the removal, especially around the storage areas and keeping the tile lines open. In our heavy clay soils many fields have tile strung every 20-30 feet to drain the clay.

Bryce

Maybe the the taxpayers can build some coonfat biodeisel plants in the golden triangle

He ain't worried too much about the damage coon do or he'd have 50 people killing deer which do more damage.

But yea, the extra value for hunting rights makes it worth it. Ditch them

Do farmers get paid for deer damage? My point is I think they get compensated for corn loss no matter who did it?

Curiosity question..................Who do you think pays the farmer for their crop damage caused by animals?

Insurance?

Today's modern crop insurance is based on yield and price for a per acre or unit protection and based on what coverage the farmer chooses to pay for and is not specific to any species or causes here in WI at least except for hail insurance. The cost for the premium is based on the prices for the commodities during a specific period usually in February and a yield component. That is somewhat tied to the average or expected yield in your area or your recent production history or both. The lower protection one buys the higher the percentage the premiums are subsidized by the federal crop insurance program. The more protection you buy the higher percentage of the premium cost the producer pays for. If crop loans are needed or used to plant the crop many lenders require crop insurance to cover the loan. With this type of coverage most farmers or producers do not submit claims for wildlife crop damage. Those that do here in WI have to follow certain regs that can involve opening the land to public hunting etc. For the most part it is only higher value crops that are seeking wildlife damage funds, such as apples etc. There are farmers near large marshes where geese are a real issue and farms located near larger expanses of say parks, etc. where the deer populations are very high and most of those seek permits and allow those to be used. The main reason farmers don't use the open hunting is they then have no control over who is on their property and that is a big concern to most of them.

Bryce

I see in results, 13 per cent coon sold at less $8.50 average, the average means nothing at that clearance an what section coon or quality , so $24 top, what kind coon was that ? Top lot or a coon that groenwold pay $15 for, ? From what I seeing I would have got more at auction if all sell which not all would sell, might be good option when high clearance on goods, FHA, if not selling, I don't know, the pt sales last year where terrible , yes I be complaining about that

I do not know how a guy could be a coon trapper for last 3 years myself ???

I remember telling LL he would be better off working at McDonalds over trapping coon a couple years ago. I see took the advice this year.

It is hard not to trap, but sometimes that is what you have to do to improve prices. You people who are not team players, should be glad there are team players or prices would almost always be terrible.

I doubt that we as trappers can have much influence one way or another on fur market prices by deciding to produce or not to produce. Waaaaay too many other factors at play. Maybe for small time stuff like association sales a paucity of a certain type of fur can help. Doubtful on the international scene.

Fact is, cheap fur can sometime stimulate usage of certain items and increase the demand and eventually price right along with it. IE: muskrat for when ranch mink gets expensive.

their will be some one that will trap or try to trap a thousand coon next year and there will be guys that will listen to them and till them how great thou are and it might be the same thing all over again wonder if the number of years guys havnt put fur on the market make them smarter or tried helping the market more than others i know guys that havnt put any thing for sale for 5 years or more

When we want mink ranchers to stop flooding the market, I guess we are wrong. It just stimulates interest in ranch mink and of course bankrupts the industry. All good things.

I averaged 12.00 on 1500 coon three years ago. I doubt I could or would have made that at Mcdonald's. In 2019 both GFW as well as FHA was saying coon were going to be stable and were actually until the China bug rolled in. There is money to be made on 10.00 coon. Not too much on 5.00 coon.

I did enjoy deer hunting and ice fishing this winter though and I did not have to shell out a couple grand on gas and bait so there is that. LLL

Don't think its quite that simple.

Why is the price of beaver bunghole juice up? Is it demand increase or supply shortage?

It cures covid.
Demand is thru the roof worldwide.
I just found a private buyer (end user) for $120 lb not dried.(frozen).
Trouble is he doesnt need a whole lot.

not going to get rich with 10 dollar coon 15 to 20 and up you can show a decent wage after costs and enjoy what your doing with out trying to kill your self trying to catch them all

Yep,
Doesn't matter how ya try to cut it, this auction is on par with Groenys and neither were good.

What was section coon an quality sold at auction ? Top lot coon for $24? How many sold for that? 1 lot only of how many ? Wonder what 4 xl heavy northern coon select in good color sold for ? So there pt sales after auction right now until next auction? That nafa used do but prices in pt were usslly decent

An announcement by FHA before the recent auction said there would be no PT sales after the April sale. Any unsold goods would be held over for the July sale.

Don’t argue and complain - I am merely reporting what FHA announced. No idea if it is true or not.

Top lot prices remind me of this.

Coonman, the catalog is posted on the FHA website. It shows what sold and what did not. Look it up!

[quote=wissmiss]An announcement by FHA before the recent auction said there would be no PT sales after the April sale. Any unsold goods would be held over for the July sale.

Don’t argue and complain - I am merely reporting what FHA announced. No idea if it is true or not.[/quote

Haha. That is what they said at the August sale and you see what happened

I know what happened in August. Im just posting what the FHA buyer letter said.

So do you think they will actually do what they said or will it be a necessary evil so they can make payroll again? You know, sacrifice the seller and their trustworthiness to be able to have another on line flop? LLL

LLtrapper.. A civil question.Why are you so concerned for the rest of us who deal with FHA?

Where do you come up with the notion I am concerned for others who deal with FHA? If someone does you wrong do you keep it to yourself or bring it up so they can determine for themselves? The for sale in the fur shed has all kinds of bad dealings. Should that stop because some might not like it? Some like getting lied to. Others make excuses for that sort of behavior or ignore it because it did not happen to them and others like me let others hear what happened and so they can decide for themselves. Civil question.. Which one are you? LLL

Hippie- thats more like me trying to get bottom lot anymore. Most remain unsold.

Well the earlier pt sales were horrid but upon view catalogs, I wish I would ship to them awhile ago but it would been for next sale, to late for April one, groenwold pay not far from FHA prices after commission on rats n mink an beaver, but on coon I had there 5 wks ago aft groenwold stop, I say he made out very well on $7.19 average after view catalogs, I guess 60 per cent this good region coon would sold an made out lot better, but not all sell plus wait an would been for FHA summer sale, I need extra cash for pickup in shop 10 times this year as hard bank acct, maybe next season FHA, I don't think $7.20 average was near enough for them coon had , plus all negative talk on FHA , maybe next season, used get some high coon averages from nafa around this area

LLtrapper. I don't like getting lied to and have no problem with exposing the lie. I would try and make my point, decide if I want to deal there anymore and then,

having made my point would consider it's up to "each his own" and leave the issue alone.

The international auction was not nearly as optimistic on xl size rats or 2xl-3xl rats that were falls or even light winters and slights. The tops moved a lot. I had 3 $6 rats in September and those were $8.70 this sale. My heavy xl and semi 2xl-3xl PT sold for $3.50 and $4.00. I had mediums near that this round. The buyers that were paying $6 , 4 and 2 knew where the market was especially when the a very high percentage could find their way into the $2 piles. We will see how July goes. Probably won't be a lot of rats there cut will be interesting to see how the 2xl, xl and large sell. I only have 10 and should have 8 winters and a couple springs.

Bryce

From look at catalogs, on FHA, which is first time ever, I not real smart an up this as never went FHA, everthing I sold a month ago would done just little better , rats guess 25 to 50 cents higher, mink 10 to 50 cents higher , beaver also a buck or $3 more depend, but coon I had, some would been 6 bucks more an some $2 or $3 more, I guess would gotten $3-$400 more on not that much stuff , I know shouldn't sold coon, but big collection adds up, but noway I want associated with last year pt sales, so who was pt sales buyers? that way I see it on the April sale, no idea on future, hopefully give FHA a try next season, local buyer convient an check on spot where as here a long wait for money an always risk, then buy backs ,maybe FHA a year from now, long while wait , how long after sale u wait for check direct deposit ? What I don't get is why buyers travel south an there stuff worth nearly same or same here, not try make noone mad reading this, local buyer is cash on spot, no wait , So i guess have shut up an give FHA a try if can next season

Coonman,
13% of more than 102,000 coons sold on this sale. You are more optimistic on the coon than Boco is on the otters.

If you ship to FHA....hope you can wait for your $$ for a year or 2.

WissMiss was pretty plain. She said she had no idea if FHA would do as they say and no PT sales or not. I don't blame her on that, they have proven time and again their word is unreliable on that. Buyers and sellers both know it. Don't shoot the messenger though, she is just informing everyone what FHA said.

From looks catalog an the heavy northern an north Central coon , compare what sold to what I had, comparing grading old nafa grading acct sales, I say lot mine would sold, guess maybe 60 per cent , better coon sold in 3 xl up an good color 2xl an some 1-11 even plus in 2xl in more off colors, price drop substantional from select grade down, they sold slt damage, had very few them but few in bigger size, the unsold stuff is not good , if u can wait for money I's it, I be all for FHA, pt sales because pandemic months ago were terrible

Pretty sure Gibb already explained it,but I will try again.
When FHA said they wouldnt offer any fur PT they meant right after the sale to the buyers that did not bid on the auction floor.Not that they would not offer PT fur between sales after a cooling off after the sale in question.
In other words it would not be available immediately after the auction.

Seems like the auction process is working across the pond.
Kopenhagen fur.
Brown velvet males.
September 2020. 695000 offered $24.80 average. 99% sold
February 2021. 410000 offered $50.10 average. 100% sold
April 2021. 540000 offered. $57.90 average. 100% sold.

It’s ranch fur. Which for some reason supports the auction process. The volume even with the pelt outs is overwhelming.

I would expect this momentum to impact wild fur. It certainly did upon reversal.

Disappointed in the lag time.

Kopenhagen March 2019 Total skins 5,546,810
Kopenhagen May 2019 Total skins 6,891,648
Kopenhagen April 2020 Total skins 3,495,289
Kopenhagen September 2020 Total skins 6,501,258
Kopenhagen April 2021 Total skins 1,338,123

Kind of a shortage

Yes which is even more reason for optimism.

Not sure why fha stalled.

What Boco said about PT sales at FH has been true at some sales in the past.

In the case of the just completed auction, the buyer rules clearly state that any unsold goods will be moved forward to the July auction. No Private Treat sales after the auction.

I’m just repeat what the rules say. I have no idea if FH will follow their own rules or not.

Sorry if I was unclear. I was just stating I appreciated you informing us what FH said to buyers. And reiterating that you had already answered LL's question, that you did not know if FH would go back on their word to not PT before the July sale. And that I fully understand your stance, you are not part of FH and can't know if they will "follow their own rules or not."

I had high hopes for this place when I sent to them for the first time last January. I really really wanted to believe in FHA. I got completely screwed scammed and mistreated. Now I see why I never have sent anything to them before. And I'm pretty certain I never will again. The more I look at the sales sheet the grades, the commission, the private treaty backroom deals. The more dissapointed I am

Bearcat2 - my most recent post was in response to Boco’s post, which is just below yours. Had nothing to do with your most recent post. Sorry for the confusion.

BTW - I appreciate what you said in your most recent post. Thank you. . .

Trapperman has spoken..........hello.....is anybody listening.......

Wissmiss I see you called it the "Private Treat" sales. Was that a slip or is that what you all call it? Thought that was rich. LLL

That would be a fat finger mistake. LOL. Though it is an interesting name................

you guys are crazy wissmiss is a buyer that wants to see them stick around so she can buy if she wants to why would she want to say bad things about them you shippers gave up all rights to your furs when you gave them to them they can give them away sell them pt throw them away they can do any thing they want and you guys are not going to change the past or the future they dont care what you say they will do what ever they want and you have no control what they do

You are as wrong as it gets when you say we cannot change the future. As said many times as people see how they have treated other shippers they MAY just change the way they do things when they figure out what they did to loose the faith in a true auction. You act like we want to see them go belly up. That is far from reality. They still have more of my fur up there than a lot of you catch in a decade. NAFA already showed us how that all works out. They sold stuff left over to pay their debts and gave the shippers nothing.

FHA to restore confidence and to get shippers to ship again need to restructure the way they do things to include doing what they say, Being more transparent with what they do to include update accounts, and get rid of PT sales after a day or two of the actual auction. I hope Downey reads this and thinks seriously about it. If not he will put on his golden parachute and bail like those in the boardroom of NAFA did. Quit selling our stuff cheap . Your decision lost you a lot of money and future shipments. LLL

Joe1. I believe, imo that Wissmiss has always been forthright in her posts .She buys on the floor and has on occasion bought PT.
You can sell to other buyers or wait until Nafa returns.You don't have to deal with FHA

Joe you are right, once I ship, I give up control of what happens to my fur. That is why I do research before I ship, so I don't usually get burned. Lot of trappers seem to ship on the "hope" program. I ship on the" what's the worse they will do to me" program. When I don't trust them, I don't ship. Trappers with unrealistic expectations should not ship. IMO

I have to say the grades I received were the toughest in the history of grades on my coon. Typical grading though, when prices are cheap the grade gets tougher.

You are right Dirt.
Unfortunately with this world global market place "the goal post" can get moved very fast, not like it was 10 years ago.
Stick a ship in the mud and create a real ripple effect, especially with " just in time delivery" for assembly lines. Look at what it did with computer chips and car manufacturing.
a little hick-up in the coyote market and the manufacturing assembly lines will be short, so what do they do for next falls line-up of jackets
hopefully not change direction or we will loose that market !

They were always much smaller auction company, that why always went to nafa, if they loose lot bussiness, there small offerings well not attract many buyers, won't be place to go to, when u hear the kinda negative stuff on them on here posted, another reason didn't ship to them this season, I was think it ,what become groenwolds auction in Cambodia ?

According to rumors; Pol Pot cancellation.

What does that mean ?

Dirt means groenys sale in cambodia was a "massacre"

I know a heck of a lot of trappers who would sooner burn their fur than sell to anywhere other than FHA.
They remember the old days.

Boco - the problem with a lot of your posts, comments, theories, etc., is that you only see the situation from a Canadian perspective. And you think that applies to all North American Trappers. Well, it doesn’t!!

Truth be told, you don’t know diddly about United States Trappers. How they think. How they view Fur Harvesters. Etc. The only thing US trappers and Canadian Trappers have in common is that they are Trappers.

So get off your high horse and stop thinking you are the most informed person on this forum.

Please, let’s not confuse one person’s perspective with an entire country’s perspective

It’s embarrassing

You better back ff Boco Miss Wiss wants that title. LOL

What happen ?

From the rumors I hear, don't know if they are true or not, FHA made a decision to sell some fur cheap to get cash flow going. Like it or not if they did it's the reality of the market. What did you expect them to do? Close the doors like NAFA? You made an adult decision to give up control of how your fur is marketed in a horse crap market. This isn't the first time FHA and other auction houses did this and it won't be the last.

Dirt's got it figured out, Nimzy's got it figured out. Pay attention.

I was talking about Ontario trappers in particular and a lot in Quebec.
This forum is not just american trappers so dont get arrogant and think its always just about Americans.
You know-The trappers that started that auction house in response to the way things were done in the past that was not beneficial to trappers.
The fact that many trappers from the states(especially the northern border states) started shipping fur there is what it is.
In fact a lot of American supporters were instrumental in getting FHA going after OTA went down in the early 90"s because they believed in what the Ontario trappers started.
A lot of people are not aware of the history and why they are there.I will inform all trappers in that regard.

Exactly!!!!

For someone who SHOULD know this, he acts dumber than a box of rocks when replying to us south of him with different fur and more outlets.

I appreciate both WissMiss' and Boco's perspectives on here. They add plenty to the knowledge base.

....plus, always gotta love another clean skinner!

There are plenty of real nice people on this site,but the typical American arrogance,known world wide comes thru from some.
I got no problem with that,makes for interesting threads,I'm just here to point out that some of the arrogant ones should strive to be more humble and nice-more like Canadians eh?But not likely because I dont think they even realize it,lol.-For example like saying because an opinion from a Canadian perspective is wrong because it is Canadian and not American,when there are plenty of both here,is the height of arrogance-see?
The funniest are the Americans who pretend to be Canadians like that SP Jones kid,lol.

Yup. I would be the height of arrogance. When it comes to certain subjects, I’m smarter than 98.5 % of the people on this forum. So there!!!

LOL.

The only ones who are really top lot arrogant are the Canadians
who lecture Americans about being Americans, Eh BOCO !!!

w

Based on Kopenhagens results sept appears to be the low point. As FHA moved goods then it reinforced that.

Currently there seem to be 2 categories of muskrat skins. The commercial skins which are used in the liner trade. And the heavy goods that are desirable for hats and trim. If the skins produced don’t make the cut they fall into the commercial category and are discounted. The problem in the country is that country buyers tend to chase averages and bonus themselves on the premium goods.

Here's what I have learned after catching and selling fur for almost 50 years: It always pays to be prepared when you market that fur....

Steven49er I feel towards FHA like you do the printing of money. Every post you make is about how wrong it is. Should I say for you to get over it since you use the dollar? I have no issue with you. Leave it alone. Or not. LLL

Here’s some food for thought.
-
$57.90-24.80= $33.10 x 695000 =$23,004,500.00. Market adjustment. Wonder how those who sold in September @ kopenhagen felt?

My calculations for brown velvet males. About 10% of the volume of the sale. 6.5m skins (one sale)

...



Too greasy

I shipped to FHA last month, for the first time.....solely on Boco’s recommendation here on Trapperman. If I get burnt , he will be held responsible. If I do well, it was a stroke of genius on my part.

Too funny Brownie. U win either way. Have ur cake n eat it too lol.

Seriously, Boco has forgot more about trapping than I’ll ever know. When Boco speaks, people should listen.

More research. Searching for anything positive

% increase = Increase ÷ Original Number × 100.
33.1/24.8= 1.334x100= 133% from September to now.

Wonder what that speculator is doing? Pulling the trigger in the deepest valley. Should we all have seen this coming? Nah, the clarity of hindsight.

I sometimes talk to myself lol.

And if we don't believe you BOZO will come along and you can ask him. lol. For what it is worth I am sure he does know how to trap. It is when he speaks of other things and marketing American trappers fur that he gets outside his lane. LLL

I have to admit I too have reached out to Boco on occasion for assistance with my own marketing scheme(s). For which he has provided some good leads. Thanks Boco!

I would think when it comes to the marketing of our wares we all have similar goals

Is kopenhagen still planning on shutting the doors even if ranch mink do become profitable again?

Right now there are about 50 people planning on raising mink again next year in Denmark. That is down from the 1600 or so ranches that were up and running just a year ago. So how kopenhagen could stay in business still seems impossible.

Didn't some Denmark mink ranchers move their operation to WI?

Maybe fha will expand their ranch game than, become nafa super giant. Someone would have to take over I would think

There is one for sure there maybe two in WI that came from Europe. If there is a profit to be made in ranch fur there will be rancher raising that fur. This whole down scaling and market change is an opportunity for the industry to expand in more labor, political and economically lower cost regions of the world and there sure is enough money in the world to go that if those with the money choose to invest. With hundreds of ranchers now out of business a firm or individual with resources can hire or create as a partner some of the most skilled ranchers, breeders etc. in the world. If pelt numbers increased from roughly 50-80 million in a half a decade won't take long to grow back if there is a reason to do so.

Bryce

Still holding out for Boco's predicted $8 rats? I think he meant top price. Normal M.O.



Apparently the mink farmers are banned until 2022, but received a bailout.

Just turning the corner now.

Yea dirt I am. Back in September I wonder how many ranchers felt mink would more than double? It’s happened before.

Want rats to go to $8.00? ,Not enough in my opinion. Stop selling for $4.00.

BEAVER
LOT# DESCRIPTION STOCK # QTY PRICE EXTENDED
10720 LM GD SLT BRN 98010428 1 Unsold to be re-offered
19027 3X-2X SELECT HVY BRN 98010884 1 $36.00 $36.00
19203 1X RR XDK-BRN 98010708 1 $20.00 $20.00
19623 LM GD SLT BRN 98010232 1 $5.50 $5.50

Average: $20.50 Sold: 3 Unsold: 1 SubTotal $61.50

Beaver are gonna rise, lol

Who is selling rats? Not I.

Dirt, I've been saying we'll see 8 dollar rats in the next 12 to 18 months.

Maybe but the average Is still going to be below production costs.

Tack on the castor value,Les,and beaver are one furbearer worth going after.
Can catch good numbers fairly quick and they are a pleasure to put up compared to other animals of their size.

At $20.00 averages on beaver I would rather catch some $6.00 coon. Easy to catch In numbers easy to carry to the truck. Coon put up Is about 15 min job from start to finish.

My coon average on this auction was $6.50, but I only sold 2 .

Sounds like rats continue be demand with little better prices, I don't think coon well go up more than a little by coming season, if can go trapping I hope an try get more rats , going order another dz 110s an 38 inch long h stands or stablizers , possibly try renew permission in some creeks I could go but trouble trap thieves around in sone an other trouble, that always problem with set bunch traps out in 1 location, ripoff, trap theft in Iowa is got be worse in country I heard , thieves are nasty around Iowa an do more than steal traps or some do, I don't like it that got ur addy on tag

Les, what are you going to do with all that cash? You are going to be living high on the hog, that's for sure. The girls hear about that they are going to be calling. Be Safe

In reality that’s where the money is. Millions of uniform and expensive skins per sale.

When Nafa collapsed they could not find anyone to even take over the wild fur.

Ranchers also support the auctions, where trappers tend to vacillate.

Them girls all got their stimulus money, they dont worry about me, lol

If you look at the sold catalogues for beaver you can see that probably just a few buyers bought them all. String after string of 50-60 beaver all at the same price.

I got $53 for this size and grade in the May 2013 FHA sale.

Do you have to have an account to see the actual lots? The only I could download was the 2-page highlights pdf.

There is a sold catalog you can click on on the home page for the current auction. Old ones are under Buyers at the top of the homepage.

Any one can view the sold catalogs. No log in. No password. Nothing.

Les, I bet that hurts having to competed with Joe and his hand out money.
beaverpeeler did those sell on the auction or were they PT beaver? If on the auction I would guess it was the starting bid.

I had some beaver in those lots. They sold during auction.

I am still competing...cant find help on account of all that free money, and I'm working and could be just laying around collecting a check It's downright pathetical.

Coonman is looking for a better job.

For you guys that sell on the Fur Harvester's Auction, when do you usually get your check following the auction? This is the first time I sent any fur in on this auction.

I think it is usually about a month.

Yep BP plus have you seen the price of vasoline lately.....Sheesh

Usually about a week to ten days after you start checking your mailbox every day expecting it to be there.