Bitcoin...back to 40k

Upto about 20500 atm. Had a drop off to high 16k last week.

49k and change now

Financial witchcraft.

This is from Barron's this morning. There is a graph in the article that I can't get to copy/paste


How Much Is Bitcoin Really Worth? A New Pricing Model Is Bad News for Bulls.

Mark Hulbert
Dec. 16, 2020 7:00 am ET


Bitcoin’s price is more than 50% higher than its fair value of about $12,000.

That’s one of the implications I draw from a new analysis of the various valuation frameworks for determining the cryptocurrency’s fair price. Entitled “Bitcoin Is Exactly Like Gold Except When It Isn’t,” the analysis was conducted by Claude Erb, a former commodities portfolio manager at TCW Group.

I first wrote about Erb’s analysis of precious metals in a February 2013 column for Barron’s. His conclusion at the time, reached jointly with Campbell Harvey, a finance professor at Duke University, was that gold’s fair value was less than half its then-current price.

Gold fell by $600 an ounce over the subsequent 2½ years. That alone inclines me to pay close attention to what he is now saying about Bitcoin.

This cryptocurrency has been on a tear of late, with a year-to-date gain of 170%. In recent days, in fact, Bitcoin has risen to new all-time highs, eclipsing its prior high set in late 2017.

The valuation framework that concludes Bitcoin’s fair price is about $12,000 is based on the thesis that its value derives from what’s known as a “network effect.” That is, a network’s value grows faster than the number of connected users. (This framework is related to what’s known as Metcalfe’s Law, which holds that a network’s value grows according to the square of the number of users.)



To test the explanatory power of this network-effect framework, Erb made the simplifying assumption that each Bitcoin that has been mined represents one user in a Bitcoin network. He then calculated the way that the price of Bitcoin has traded relative to the number of Bitcoins that have been mined up to that point. As you can see from the accompanying chart, his model does a good job of capturing Bitcoin’s price rise over the past decade.

According to this model, Erb said in an interview, Bitcoin’s fair price as of Dec. 14 is $12,315. Bitcoin’s actual Dec. 14 price of $19,201 is 56% higher.


Of course, a social-network framework is not the only way in which analysts have proposed calculating Bitcoin’s fair price. Erb nevertheless suggests we give it serious consideration because no other relative valuation approach is empirically more plausible—and the predictions of the social-network framework are impressively correlated with the trajectory of Bitcoin’s price history.

Using the social-network framework to value Bitcoin also allows us to forecast how much it will rise in the future. That’s because its underlying code stipulates both the maximum number of Bitcoins that will ever exist (21 million) as well as how quickly they can be mined (this limit isn’t likely to be reached until 2140). According to Erb’s econometric model, a 21-million-user network translates to a Bitcoin price of $74,000. Relative to its current price, that represents a 1.2% annualized return over the next 120 years.
Hedging Inflation

Some other approaches for valuing Bitcoin contend that it’s a good inflation hedge. But Erb says those approaches are less empirically plausible than the network effect framework.

He points out that a key precondition for something being a good inflation hedge is that its real, or inflation-adjusted, price is relatively stable. But Bitcoin doesn’t satisfy this precondition, at least if we use the consumer-price index as a proxy for inflation. Over the past decade, the ratio of Bitcoin to the CPI has ranged from a low of near zero to a high of over 73.

Bitcoin is even less of a good inflation hedge than gold. That’s relevant because many of Bitcoin’s supporters argue that it is “Gold 2.0.” The gold/CPI ratio over the past decade has ranged between a low of around 3 to a high of around 8, and while that’s wider than what it should be if gold were a good inflation hedge, it’s far narrower than the comparable ratio for Bitcoin.

The bottom line? Erb’s analysis offers something useful for Bitcoin’s devotees: a valuation model that can be used to estimate the cryptocurrency’s fair value. It’s entirely possible that there is another model that does an even better job than his of explaining Bitcoin’s price history. Meanwhile, Erb’s social-network framework introduces a quantitative discipline into an arena that heretofore has been characterized largely by marketing slogans.


https://www.barrons.com/articles/why-bitcoin-is-overpriced-by-more-than-50-51608120001?mod=hp_LEAD_3

Open interest in Bitcoin derivatives hit new highs this week
by MK Manoylov
December 15, 2020, 5:39PM EST · 1 min read
This week saw open interest in bitcoin options and futures surge to new highs, according to data collected by The Block Research.

On Sunday, open interest for bitcoin options reached $4.81 billion. Open interest refers to the total amount of contracts that have yet to be settled at a given time.

Eighty-one percent of bitcoin options open interest was on market leader Deribit, followed by Bit.com (6%) and CME (5.4%).





Open interest on Bitcoin futures reached $7.38 billion, a new high, the following day, per the data. OKEx led the way at 18.9%. Binance and CME were nearly tied at 15.6% and 14%, respectively.



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The Bit coin is latest Beanie Baby Investment. Watch out. MD

.... or possibly the greatest savings technology to ever exist.

I bet social-networks don't even fit Barron's social-network model. Haha.

I wouldn't go to my butcher for carpentry advice just like i wouldn't go to a 100 yr old dying institution for technology advice.

Bitcoin reminds me of the California fire situation, it's tremendously terrible one day or week, then it jumps to a record , then in a week lose's it all and wanders around some more for more fuel !

You mean like a debt backed currency?

This is the same as the grain markets are normally.

Both.

I friend of mine just had over $20K of Bitcoin stolen out of his account; absolutely no recourse.
He said he should have not have had any of the account information on his computer, I guess phones are somewhat better but not really the answer. He told me how it account information should be stored but I wasn't really paying attention since I don't plan to buy any.
Apparently over a billion dollars of Bitcoin has been stolen recently.

You should have 2-step authentication on any kind of bank account.

Couple of questions:


1. If you bought $10,000 in Bitcoins when it first hit the market, What would that original $10,000 in Bitcoins be worth now?


2. How do you covert Bitcoins into real cash???

1. in the millions as it was pretty cheap in the beginning, talking about pennies or fractions of
2. through paypal. the exchanges, depending on what you use make it pretty easy. in the early days there was no such thing

If I have the amount right, it was selling for $0.0008 a Bitcoin x $10.000

That would be $252,000,000,000.

That's $252 Billion Dollars !!!

This is what I do not understand. A bitcoin is a number. and everyone is different. As long as that number is registered to you, how can it be stolen? There are only so many bitcoins unless you mine one yourself. I don't know, the entire thing is hokum in my book.

account security. if someone gets through your password and authentification, youre in trouble

23k now.

I remember when it was less than a penny a coin. The greedy part of me wishes I would have risked a $1000 on it back then, but I didn't. Oh well.

Yeah . There's a lot of things I've wishes I put money into early or found out about too late to make real money in.ive paid for a gun or two with my crypto bets. Just wish I could afford to of betted more lol.

For those that don't know. This is what bitcoin looks like.

The public address, which is what you can share with someone else to show your balance
1H2U6Zz23kxV3W5n8bmsVNhfZ2zFNdJa8t

The private address, which proves you own the funds at the above address
5JbftJeSME1CXaGyLxKpVggzaeFwVqebopB3Sn8bzKMogaD5bTW

So your public key is what you check to see how much bitcoin you have, and is what you use to send/receive bitcoin. The private key proves ownership and is needed to transfer bitcoin.

There is a zero balance at the above address. Sorry, no free bitcoin. In order to steal someone's bitcoin, you would have to guess a private address. So lets say you want to just start guessing private addresses to see if one contains any bitcoin to steal. You can surely try, however there are

115,792,089,237,316,195,423,570,985,008,687,907,852,837,564,279,074,904,382,605,163,141,518,161,494,336

possible private key combinations. If there are currently approximately 29 million bitcoin addresses that have any balance, your odds of guessing a private key are

.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000025 % chance of guessing the correct key per guess.

Your chances of winning the lottery are significantly higher then your odds at finding someone's bitcoin address.

By the way, a university study estimated that there are 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 grains of sand on all of earth's beaches combined. So now imagine billions of earths full of sand and imagine picking one of those earths and picking out a grain of sand and having that grain of sand hold any value.

Stealing bitcoin doesn't happen. It is only stolen when someone else holds your private key for you and they disappear. Or they hack your computer, open your digital wallet using a weak password and steal the private key. The creator of bitcoin advised no one store their private key on an exchange, because if you don't own your private key, it's not your bitcoin.

Nicely surmised Nd native. Fyi I did check that private key to sweep funds if any were there. Haha

My guess is that most stolen bitcoin was being "stored" on an exchange like Coinbase. My second guess is that most people who store their coins on exchanges actually think they own bitcoin. They don't.

$30,000 by new years?

....or will it drop like a rock like it did a few years ago after a Christmas run up? Time will tell!

I'll stick to some silver. Way easier to understand and its physical in my hand. Sorry.

It might. Darn need hit 27k today.

Nobody is trying to encourage anyone to buy some.

It's mostly an interesting conversation.

There are plenty of companies that have A LOT of there money
Tied up in bitcoin and when bitcoin goes up so does the value of that company.
So you may indirectly own some bitcoin and not even know it.

Stands at 31,599

Might be getting a canoe soon

If you decide you need USD more that the BTC hit me up. Anytime I can aquire without using a traditional exchange is a good day.

Sold my BTC today. Surpassed what I figured was a lofty goal. Bought @3850 in spring of 2019. Had a goal of 30,000. With today's price action and pending treasury rules that could put the brakes on the market, I decided to quit being greedy and be satisfied that I made my target. As fast as it climbs it can go down 10X faster. Still HODLing the LTC that I mine though. Dont have much of it, but at least it will satisfy the itch when I want to check in on the crypto markets. For those just diving in, be cautious and be prepared for wild swings in the price.

I should sell my but I won't. I'm a zealot and gonna ride the wave. Hopefully it still has value when I kick the bucket, kids can have it.

I invested $2000.00 a few years ago just to see where this thing might go. It dropped shortly after and got down around $400.00 value. As of right now it is over $2900.00 Guess we will see where it goes.

Might be like an AR15 then. Illegal to possess

I lost both items in a boating accident.

Ken, it sunk faster than the Titanic.

What with all the ammo and precious metals that were also on that boat.

I'm doing my best to resupply.

ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep up the good fight !!

I think it’s only the beginning, but agree with the wild swings, I’m thinking at least 50,000 by the end of 21

For everyone else's sake I hope so. But for my sanity since I sold, I hope not. Ha. I have read more crypto news then I can fathom over the last couple years. I am a firm believer in crypto, but the temptation to pay off a vehicle loan with the earnings was to much.

I will still be drying my fur with the LTC miner though, mining with an Antminer L3+ overclocked. Nice dry electric heat blow drying my fur and now as of today making a profit while doing so, eliminating one extra trapping cost as long as we are having temps in the 20s and above.

LTC finallly getting a move on, up 20% today

bitcoin was over 34k for a bit

https://www.reuters.com/article/glo...osts-worst-year-since-2017-idUSKBN29501O

Bitcoin Breaks Above $30,000 to Hit Another Record High

Nicholas Jasinski
Jan. 2, 2021 4:28 pm ET




Bitcoin kicked off 2021 just how it ended 2020—with a roaring rally to record highs. The price of the cryptocurrency surged above $30,000 for the first time on Saturday before hitting more than $33,100 that afternoon, according to CoinDesk. At about 4:20 p.m., Bitcoin was at $31,576.61, up 21% in the past week and almost 360% in a year.

For all of its comparisons to “digital gold,” Bitcoin has traded much more like a risk asset in 2020. Its price fell below $5,000 during March’s broad selloff, but rebounded in the spring and summer. By the fall, as a cyclicals-led rally took off in the stock market, Bitcoin neared record highs for the first time since 2017. The price first broke through $20,000 in December, and has only taken off since.

A weaker U.S. dollar in 2020 and signs of greater institutional backing for Bitcoin have added to the enthusiasm for the cryptocurrency. Once-skeptical investors like Paul Tudor Jones and Stanley Druckenmiller have publicly said that they’ve invested in Bitcoin as a diversifier in 2020, while Robinhood, Square (ticker: SQ), and PayPal Holdings (PYPL) have all made it easier for their users to buy digital assets like Bitcoin.

Some analysts—of varying pedigree—see Bitcoin climbing even higher in 2021. Several have targets in the $20,000 to $50,000 range. ARK Investment Management CEO Catherine Wood sees a price of $500,000 as attainable.

It has been a volatile rise for Bitcoin in recent months: In addition to days with double-digit gains, the cryptocurrency has swung in the opposite direction in several sessions. It’s certainly not an investment for the faint of heart.

Write to Nicholas Jasinski at nicholas.jasinski@barrons.com

https://www.barrons.com/articles/bi...ecord-high-51609622919?mod=hp_LEAD_1_B_3

$500,000 !! Better get ready to pay some taxes !!

If Bitcoin goes to 500,000 the world will have a far different look than it does now.

Silver had a nice pop on the opening bell this afternoon, it's about time for PMs to start the next leg up.

They might. Especially if the RATS manage to steal the GA elections

Trumps minion, Mnuchin, is what has me concerned with temporarily killing the industry. Read the frequently asked questions section and how they basically dont care about the public comments. They want to do away with the entire privacy feature of crypto and basically regulate every core cryptocurrency belief of being your own bank. The "frequently asked questions" pdf file at the below web address basically spells it out that crypto is for terrorists and drug organizations. If they kill off deposits from self hosted wallets then they will effectively kill the spirit of bitcoin.

Better think about transferring whatever crypto you have to an exchange before these rules take effect and you somehow have to prove you own a public address. Only way of doing that is giving them your private key. If you dont and these rules are adopted be ready to weather a market in significant decline and inability to get your BTC transaction confirmed with an exchange, accepted and sold. If not, then prepare to HODL long term, or pray these rules aren't adopted.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm1216

This is the paragraph about basically stating we dont care what your public comment reads.

Third, although FinCEN is publishing this proposal in the Federal Record and invites
public comment, FinCEN has noted that notice-and-comment rulemaking requirements are
inapplicable because this proposal involves a foreign affairs function of the United States and
because “notice and public procedure thereon are impracticable, unnecessary, or contrary to the
public interest.”5
The proposal seeks to establish appropriate controls to protect United States
national security from a variety of threats from foreign nations and foreign actors, including
state-sponsored ransomware and cybersecurity attacks, sanctions evasion, and financing of
global terrorism, among others. Furthermore, undue delay in the implementation of the proposed
rule would encourage movement of unreported or unrecorded assets implicated in illicit finance
from hosted wallets at financial institutions to unhosted or otherwise covered wallets, such as by
moving CVC to exchanges that do not comply with AML/CFT requirements

I think I'd be more concerned about the Biden cronies who want to impose MTM taxation even though no taxable event takes place. IOW......they want to tax you on the value at year end regardless of whether you have sold or still hold an asset

I lost all my assets. Well except for the depreciating ones.

We are all likely to lose our .....assets

We were going to anyways. Just gonna get sped up a bit

Now to 38k... invested in a penny crypto yesterday and it's doubled by this morning.

Good luck. Altcoins/"crypto" main purpose is to steal your BTC.

BTC now crosses 40k.

I don't understand the concept of Bitcoin at all. I know a guy who has four water cooled processors at work trying to mine it. How do you exchange it for something tangible you can hold in your hands?

You can sell it on an exchange, of you're savy enough you don't need an exchange, for cash and soon you can purchase stuff with it via PayPal.

Things you can hold in your hands can easily be confiscated. Especially if you have the power of the State against you.
Part of Bitcoins value prop comes from how hard it would be to confiscate from someone. Reason #127 it is the ultimate savings technology.

Executive order 6102 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

The same way you exchange the fiat currency in your pocket for tangible goods. Find a person willing to trade you their goods for what you are willing to trade with.

My wife was going to throw money at it 3 weeks ago. I told her she better not, its a fools game. I saw the price today.....She should've bought and sold as soon as it went up 20%.

20 percent? That can be a day or two's trading range. Bitcoin is volatile to say the least.

People who live under oppressive regimes with tight monetary control (many times accompanied by high inflation) will usually quickly grasp Bitcoins value proposition. Compared to the rest of the world we've been pretty lucky in these regards, but you may want to ask yourself which way this is trending.

Anyone, eg. State, Gov., etc. who controls the www. or internet can control your "digital monies" . . . They could control your access to anything that is on the web. PS . . . they can only confiscate what is found.

Bitcoin is up just 35% this week...up 9% today. It's been bouncing around 10% one way or another since Christmas

If it sounds to good to be true . . .

Thinking you can trade BTC or "time the market" is a sure fire way to get rekt. Bitcoin is a game of accumulation.

Bitcoin has it's problems is for sure. Biggest thing that concerns me right now is that it's estimated that only about 20 percent of bitcoin is actively traded, the rest is in strong hands or is lost. It wouldn't take much to kill the market.

UH_OH.................down 20% this morning

Yeah just about everything this down hard . Cashed out of most of em. Going to be interesting to see where the new bottom is. Have a feeling things might pick up in February.

Read an article on thursday that actually predicted this drop ....but in a few more days. Same guy is "very bullish in the VERY long term."

This dip was good for the market. It's going to clear out all of the "dumb money." Probably going to hit 50-100k in the coming months. Ethereum is also going to jump up.

I am wondering how many of you bitcoin fans also took part in multiplayer video games in the past ??

What kind of silly question is that? Lol. Used to run one if the largest clans on one of the top,at the time, MMOs .That's how I got into doing tech support helping guys identify spyware on their PCs as account hacking was a huge thing back then as there was a big black market economy for trading in-game cash for real life cash. The game itself wasn't good at stopping that kind of thing back then.

I figured you would be guilty

Merching(buy low sell high)was, still Is, a big part of that game too. Really helped my quick math skillz as at that time there was no stores to sell goods so it was like the pits at the stock markets. If you took to long to figure out how much something was to buy, you lost the trades.

He who hesitates.............

I figured you played Runescape at one time just from your signature sniper. I still dabble in it myself although on the Oldschool Runescape side.

Side note on virtual currency. Oldschool Runescape is currently being played very heavily by Venezuelans and Egyptians because the in game currencies value is worth more than their countries. They can sell it for a very good wage compared to normal jobs. A new player can make 80 cents an hour while the more advanced can make 2-3 usd per hour which is considered very high.

Made signatures for other players too. Never could get back into OSRS so I just slum around in RS3 when I'm bored

I served as a mod for another MMO based out of peru or chile,can't remember, with the job of tracking down bots/cheaters. It was a short-lived job as most of the violators were from venezuela and they decided to just ban the entire country.

Gold farming has been a problem with these games forever.

Here is the reason I asked the question


Bitcoin – The Ultimate Multiplayer Game?
Interactive Brokers


By:
Steve Sosnick

Chief Strategist at Interactive Brokers


Cryptocurrencies are in the news this morning, as many investors woke up to see Bitcoin plunging by over 20% since last Friday. Actually, it would have only been news to those who watch cryptocurrencies during normal business hours, as the plunge began in earnest over the weekend. And when I say “over the weekend”, I don’t mean Asian trading hours that begin on Sunday evening, I actually mean Sunday morning Eastern time. Yes, for those of you who were previously unaware, Bitcoin trades 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Like a major casino, the Bitcoin market never closes.

It is just one of many ways that gambling, video gaming and trading have all become commingled. We have often noted that many of the newest crop of investors were sports gamblers frustrated by the lack of opportunities during the lockdowns. Markets gave them a nearly infinite supply of daily action, with technology stocks attracting the bulk of new money. Then, many new traders discovered that options offered them a generally similar payoff to gambling but with much lower transaction costs. Like a sports or casino wager, an options buyer risks an initial premium with the hope of receiving a multiple of that premium in return. Traders became enamored with options — particularly short-term, out-of-the-money calls with the highest decay – pushing volumes and open interest to new records. Although there is the greatest opportunity for action in stock and options markets, unlike casinos they have defined opening and closing times.

While online gambling may fill that void, it is only available in certain jurisdictions. Besides, even though many investors approach the two activities the same way, gambling sounds so much more unseemly than investing. That is where Bitcoin comes in.

Bitcoin is an investment, despite its quirks and gut-wrenchingly high volatility, but it shares many key similarities with multiplayer video gaming. It exists only in a virtual world, accessed only through an app or similar portal, and available during whichever hours the player/investor chooses. Most importantly, I believe that a significant number of young Bitcoin investors spent some portion of their youth playing multiplayer online games that require in-game currency. Think of the parallels between the “gold farming” industry that sprung up in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s with the Bitcoin mining industry that exists today. While Bitcoin mining is more sophisticated and less labor intensive than video game gold farming, in-game currencies often had real world values. That made them analogous to today’s cryptocurrencies. Either can be described as virtual currencies that could be utilized for real world purchases. While this may be a new revelation to a (ahem) mature non-gamer, I can’t believe this similarity would be lost on the new generation of new cryptocurrency fans.

Today must be a sobering day for many Bitcoin fans. A nearly 30% drop must be gut-wrenching, especially for those who have been sharing stories about their recent riches on social media. As I wrote last week about Bitcoin and Tesla (TSLA), “Parabolic moves usually come to a nasty, unpredictable end. But timing that result is nearly impossible, and the catalyst is often something trivial.” Many experienced investors felt that there was a modicum of unsustainable euphoria in Bitcoin’s recent run, and the reason for today’s drop is murky at best. That phrase fit uncannily.

Having said all this, there is still plenty of euphoria still present in today’s market. While TSLA is down about 5% today, that is a small dip in light of its recent record 11 day upward streak. TSLA’s chairman, Elon Musk, one of the most evangelical figures in investing, recently told his followers to use Signal for messaging, causing the unrelated Signal Advance (SIGL) to shoot from $0.60 on Wednesday to over $70 today (it is now about $29.50). Read that again – it’s an unrelated stock with a similar name. So, there is no shortage of speculative opportunities available to those who are willing to abandon conventional risk metrics, even with the jaw-dropping fall in Bitcoin. I urge you never to abandon risk metrics though.

I can see the analogies they use partly.

Gold farming had a tendency to wreck the economy balance of the games involved. Of course anymore, with most games, including Runescape are becoming more and more pay to win so the game make the money instead of the gold farmers.

This article is completely ridiculous clickbait trash. Bitcoin is well over 30k, back to levels not seen since.... wait for it..... last week. LOL. Using the the words "plunging" and and "gut wrenching" a "sobering day for Bitcoins fans" a "jaw dropping fall" Hahaha. ITS OVER 30K! Its was 25k at Christmas 2 weeks ago which is well over +30% at this writing. If you ask advice from anyone who know anything about Bitcoin "the game" is accumulate through dollar cost averaging with a long term horizon. Buying some each week or month to smooth out the volatility. The author here is clearly trying to scare people away from BTC.

Also he insinuates its a bad thing that Bitcoin trades 24/7. Its like saying the post office is better for getting a letter rather than email. Imagine doing all your shopping or banking or anything really in only the hours of 9 to 5 in the year 2021. Tradition equities trading is the odd one here. Interesting to note that because Bitcoin trades 24/7 it is already approaching more overall trading time as the NYSE

I'm not or have ever been a gamer to answer your question in another the other post

Bitcoin was down to 30k, back almost to 36k as a of 30 minutes ago. All the other altcoins have almost the same 24hr graph.

Uhm.... no.

Well Unless Pong counts

If bitcoin is going to become a medium of exchange it has to be open 24/7.

Idiot who wrote that article most likely believes in MMT.

Maybe the institutional investors just trade during normal hours...I doubt it as unless they're colossally stupid.

If you look at the price 7 days ago, BTC up 6% from this time last Monday

I have to come clean now, I played lots of Mario Bros, Tetris and Tecmo Bowl. Ha

I played pong and space invaders at the neighbors We were too poor to have video games and I didn’t allow them in the house to speak of when my kids were little.

BTC is still in infancy I still say it has a 50/50 chance. Either to the moon or zero. Maybe 60/40 in favor of zero

IMO Bitcoin has matured enough that the riskier play is to not have at least a little exposure. Especially in the current political climate. Censorship in social media platforms us just the beginning.

Looks like BTC will be above 40k either today or tomorrow...

I wish I would have done something when the guy said hey we need to be buying bitcoin like 8 years ago. It was so new though and you couldn't just buy it anywhere which made it seem sketchy and after looking at it for a couple weeks I never pulled the trigger. I wish a reputable name was selling it then, I'd have some for sure.

Looks like the treasury is not going to introduce any new crypto rules under the trump administration. BTC is probably fixing to make some good ground again.

Tesla reported they purchased 1.5 billion worth.

43,494 right now

Bitcoin just casually mixed in this list of scat is like listing a Lamborghini with a bunch of cheap plastic toy matchbox cars.

Perhaps but I'm over 800% on all but one of those ...

Which is about 0.1% of the current market cap of bitcoin.

In USD terms sure. With BTC as the unit of account (use scatcoin/BTC rather than scatcoin/USD) you might see some short term gainz but they all grind lower eventually. You could take a look at the charts of all the ICO token/ next bitcoin/ faster/cheaper lol/blockchain governance/ buzzword nonsense coins from 2016/2017 to see where all the hot 2020/2021 "De-Fi" coins could (will) go. Good luck to you either way. If your only in the Bitcoin space for USD gains then that's great and much respect admitting it.

I was only commenting that Tesla purchases some, also they are considering using it as a form of payment. The more mainstream it becomes the higher it will go.

Mine was just commenting on how big bitcoin is and how big of a purchase that was.

If curious in BTC terms---- Tesla bought roughly about 40k Bitcoin and with a total circulating supply of about 18.6 million Bitcoin that exist today so therefor they bought about .2% of the existing supply.

Will it break 50,000 this week?

It might crack it, question is for how long? Really depends on how long the dust takes to settle over Tesla's purchase. Coinbase reports that,atm, 60% of its accounts increased positions vs sold in the last 24hrs. Of course that's just over CB, not including other exchanges.

How 'bout the guy that bet 1 Bitcoin against the same FACE VALUE of silver coin on yesterday's Stupid Bowl . . . and lost? . . . wonder how much the silver coinage will weigh?. I think it'll take him time to gather that much up HA! . . . and yes, he's good for it. :-)

How much will the silver weigh?

For easy math say 1500 ounces at the bitcoin price at the moment, realistically it would be a few less ounces. So 125 troy pounds or 94 avoirdupois pounds

The catch here is that the silver Value is greater than the weight or face value. e.g. 10 silver dimes = $1.00 . The silver value is = $19.98 :-)

I overlooked that part. Industry standard is .715 ounces in 1 dollar face of 90 percent coins.

That would equate to a ton of silver. Literally

Yup, anything that is approx. 20x it's face value is a decent % increase . . . AND something you can actually "hold" :-)

$49,000 has been breached. Next stop $50,000.

Came close today, within 300 dollars. Probably will happen in the next few days. Now that Congress has to do something else besides impeachment trials now.

Bitcoin hit 50645 around midnight last night down to 49500 atm

over $150,000 by year end

So my question is if it is going to crash? I don't understand why cryptocurrency is worth anything.

There's always the possibility of a crash. But that would pretty much have to be the result of all government banning the use of cryptos. It's seen as a hedge against inflation.

Sounds like an easy retirement plan... except its not backed by anything?

I just read some research into "bubbles".

The bottom line of the research going back to 1926 is as follows;

Any asset class that has increased by 100% or more in the last two years.....compared to the overall market..................has an 80% chance of a 40% decline in the next two years. Seems to me that BTC is up over a thousand percent in the past two years.


Sniper: if you think BTC is a hedge against inflation ( not saying it isn't ) then what does that say about the relationship between BTC & AU ?? One would think their movements would be strongly correlated.

I think if I had invested years ago, I would be cashing out right now before the fall

Could crash. Could make a big correction. Could go up and up.

I'm not necessarily a full fledged bitcoin believer. BUT here is a question that is at the heart of what bitcoin represents to many: not why is a cryptocurrency worth anything but why are any of the world fiat currencies worth anything??

The Dollar isn't backed by much except the reputation of the US. Currency values are hard to pinpoint when money can be printed and printed and printed. One of the biggest problems with the current world economy is that there are so many government players manipulating every move. Its a highly controlled version of a free market where no one wants to allow it to fail---every blip in the economy has a government agency somewhere trying to rectify the market to their liking. Which is why the last correction nearly 15 years ago didnt have the needed impact to fully flush everything out just like the corrections for 40 years or so prior. It was too short and not deep enough. continued manipulation and money printing has the potential to get you closer to currency of zero value. not that we are anywhere near that level here but when bread is $100 loaf there might be a problem. Bitcoin potentially reveals how little paper currency is worth----taking more dollars everyday to buy something that is in being valued in free market. most of the bitcoin players i know are viewing bitcoin as the newest hedge; just modern day version of silver/gold.

Big thing with BTC is it's easier to get fractional pieces of it. You can do that with gold but it's harder to come by. Plus it's easier to spend or convert to cash. I think there's still some lingering manipulations from bad mouthing golf institutionally that's kept gold suppressed.

As a funny aside, there's an article on coinbase announcing pornhub's now accepting ripple and dogecoin as payment options...

I watched 'bitcoin explained in plain english' on youtube and still don't understand it. I'm either too dumb to grasp the concept or too smart to fall for it. Not sure which. How Bitcoin has value, I'll never know.

Never done much investing on my own always left it to the people in the industry in my retirements and such !

However watching bitcoin bounce around like a ping pong ball I decided to drop a small amount of cash into an app that invest that cash in bitcoin for you, in two months I've quadrupled my investment and now can't decide whether to take the cash and leave some in again or just leave it alone.

Seems it grows three times as fast with every hundred it grows, hard to not just leave it there, until of course it fails, LOL

LOL !!!!!!!!!!! I'm not surprised !


I think in the case of BTC, it is currently more FAD than hedge. Also, the law of round numbers has something to do with it IMO.

But if BTC and gold are both priced in dollars, I would expect the same magnitude and direction of moves from each of them...........if in fact they are being viewed/used as a hedge against the dollar


As far as the dollar itself is concerned, yes it is a fiat currency but it is backed by the power to tax. But there is a limit to that too..................some politicians just don't believe it

You might consider taking out your original investment and let the rest of it ride. Play with THEIR money rather than your money.

I think the dollar at this point is backed more by our percieved military strength.

I was waiting for a pullback after the initial 40k point. The Tesla buy changed things. If another large company or two makes such a purchase, who knows what will happen.

One thing I'm worried about is that Elon has made himself a target and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a reverse gamestop type effort to crash bitcoin to get at Tesla/Elon

To me this is solid advice to go with. I got a small amount at a fairly early stage. Sold two not that long ago as the profit margin was too hard to pass up. but the remainder i cant see selling. i'll hold those like precious metals. just because may need them when there is nothing left to tax and bread is actually $100 loaf

Yes sound advice for sure, except the small amount I started with is hard to just take out when it's so large now, then see it fail. Must be my greed in finally seeing something move so fast, you just want to stay with it !!

I set a number to see if it goes to then I'll remove everything but the first investment and see if it climbs again
if it keeps going like it has it will only be a month or less to reach my goal !

You don't have to fall for the concept to grasp it... So..........

All I know is I played around the last three years with crypto. Bitcoin, and a couple others. Put $18,000 in total starting three years ago. As of today it’s worth $85,000. I could pull it all out but I’m going to roll the dice and see where it goes......

51k. might hold a bit

Bitcoin moons- People flood in wanting to get rich. Lots of media attention..."its a bubble, not backed, tulips, boiling the oceans, Gov will ban it, a new better bitcoin emerges" LOL

Bitcoin crashes- The "get rich quick-ers" sell. Media declares Bitcoin dead. A small percent who bought that actually understand it buy the dip

Bitcoin's programmed "halving" occurs which reduces the daily emission of new coins. Reduced supply starts to get soaked up

The 4 year cycle starts again.

56,000 and rising.

Today I'm announcing a brand new currency I invented called Cooncoin. Announcing it here first to give everyone a chance to buy in before going public. Send your money to me by paypal and I will return to you by PM the appropriate amount of Cooncoin.
Thank you.

It is all backed by coon hides in my freezers.

I hope you’re offering it in fractions. PM sent!

Steve,

What are you gonna do with all that wealth ?

walleyed

Whether or not you believe it, digital scarcity exists with Bitcoin. One can create millions of copies of it in the same way you can create gold by picking up some rocks and painting them yellow. Its worldwide digital network effect is equivalent to analog physical properties. Also, the fact its "backed by nothing" is its greatest strength, "trusted third parties are security holes".

If you invested $10,000 in Bitcoin when it was $0.008 per Bitcoin, that amount of Bitcoin would not be worth as of today !!!!!


READY FOR IT??????


$ 714,587,500,000

That is seven hundred fourteen BILLION five hundred eighty seven MILLION five hundred THOUSAND DOLLARS !!!


At that amount, I do believe I could afford to live in ALASKA!!!!

Canvas you'd have sold it long before it got this high.

Walleyed, I expect wha I'll do is shed a tear when I ride my bitcoin back down to zero.

I applaud your realistic view Seven !

White, when my friends ask me how high I think bitcoin will go I say 50 percent chance it's going to the moon and 50 percent chance it's going to zero. There won't be an in between.

What the figure I'd call the moon is the question. We won't know that number until it's an accepted method of exchange. We are still in the early adoption stage.

Exactly ! It is interesting to watch but I think the biggest problem is its volatility.

If I was a retailer I would not accept bitcoin as payment. I may sell a product for 1 bitcoin in the morning that I will need to pay two bitcoins to replace, by tomorrow.

I don't know what the solution to that is

I remain long on GBTC
I can't spot any bears on the horizon. Can you spot any?

As I said above, I think its own volatility makes it unsustainable. If I had to point to one thing I see as bearish it would be that retail investors are far more involved at this level than institutional investors. Usually........that is an indication that it is time to leave the party.

Also, as I have mentioned previously, the price relationship...or disconnect between BTC and gold is a red flag to me.

Good pearls. I realized it was a Vegas play when I plunked the cash upon it, but the retailers were one-upping each other with GameStop and I figured it's this same crew(s) that are one-upping with no expertise in fundamentals. It's just click and burn.

So, I went in and I have the app on my phone set to "stun" should alerts be triggered. So far it's been a lucrative two weeks for my stash of Vegas chips.
The bull market profits for years now, have allowed for funny money fun.

LOL ! STUN !!


I would not be at all surprised to see it shoot to 100K by the end of the year. Nor would I be surprised to see it drop 50% in a day.

Volatility certainly creates opportunities,and I like it for that reason. But this one just doesn't seem viable to me. If there was a reasonable way for US based investors to hedge a position, that would be a different story.

Ken when you quit looking at it as an investment you may realize it's potential.

I read today what you can do / can't do with Cryptocurrency on PayPal FAQwww.paypal.com. Interesting :-?

yea, i find it hard to wrap my mind around the disconnect given how big the differential is. one thing folks i know that are big followers of bitcoin for long term future use say is that they want the portability of bitcoin; that electronic wallet. these are folks that have piles of precious metal also but when you start looking at metals compared to bitcoin you need to hold it in quantities that are hard to deal with--basically pallets worth of metal that you have to store securely and it doesnt move electronically. i think that might explain some of the price disparity but obviously not all

Portability of bitcoin? Having to "carry" around a 256 digit number somewhere or X amount of coin / Paper $ / ounces of G / S? . . . at least I can carry and hold it :-)

We got it is pretty good in the US where we can't even imagine a use case where memorizing 12 or 24 seed phrase (the keys to your BTC) could be better than holding/carrying some heavy metals.

I don't know of any other way to look at it. I don't view it as an investment because I don't view bitcoin as an asset. If I understand it correctly, bitcoin is nothing more than a couple of bits of computer code. There is no physical manifestation of bitcoins that I am aware of. Maybe I am wrong in that belief.

Speculation ?? That comes closer to the mark for the way I look at it. But again, there is currently no way to hedge that speculation.

Someone above mentioned US equities as a way to gain exposure to bitcoin. That makes a lot more sense to me. At this point, there are only a few ways to do that.

Square and PayPal both are publicly traded companies that allow bitcoin transactions on their platforms. By owning shares of either of those two, a guy could also gain exposure to bitcoin while also owning a portion of a company with traditional sources of revenue and income as well as a growing market share.

The problem for me, with both of those companies is that they are anti-gun. I won't participate in that, even if I could make money at it.

Robinhood is supposed to go public within a few months. That would be another more traditional investment that will give exposure to bitcoin..............if you believe Robinhood is a viable concern.

Then there is MicroStrategy Incorporated ( MSTR) . A public company that issues debt and uses the proceeds to buy bitcoin. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen but at least there is an avenue to hedge against a decline. That is true of SQ & PYPL also.

As far as using bitcoin in a retail setting, I have a couple more questions that may have already been addressed.

Let's say you go out to dinner and the bill comes to 100$. You whip out your Iphone and access your electronic wallet and pay the bill with bitcoin.

1. What is the additional transaction fee you pay and what is it based on ? This would be just like using a credit card.

2. You just spent 100$ of bitcoin that you bought for 80$ two weeks ago. You have just triggered a taxable event. How do you account for the 20$ capital gain on your bitcoin ??

^ there's a reason Janet yellen and the fed hates cryptos. I think if BTC becomes a common currency the gov and big banks will step in.

Interesting thoughts White17. Thanks.

You can bet on it.

Ken I look at it as a hedge although a very very risky one. I have zero faith in the long term future of the dollar and other fiat currencies(surprise, surprise).

Do I believe bitcoin will become the digital gold many speak of? Not a chance but then I have to remind myself we are dealing with millennials.

As far as investing in bitcoin like any other equity, commodity or land? I don't have a big enough set of balls for that. Too much volatility. When bitcoin got in the mid to high 30k range I felt it would retrace to the 20k figure or possibly lower. It still might.

I agree Steven. It still could and with good reason IMO.

So you view it as a hedge against the dollar ? I can see that but I think there are better hedges with much less volatility.

If it doesn't say "In God We Trust" on it . . . I'll take payment in precious metals. :-)

A little volatility today lol.

There is only one true hedge against the dollar.

My biggest gear in cryptos is governments and central banks.

LOL Yeah just a bit of vol !!




Yep I think the biggest liability is political

XRP & XLM Friends

No thanks

Downnn $4900 or over 8% as I write.

Can't help but wonder how much Elon's statement affected this cryptos overall are down 9% over 24hrs

0%

The media has a horrible need to ascribe reason for market movements.

Been looking for articles all day and finally this pops up...

These things have done nothing but lose value in terms of BTC over longer terms. The only thing they accomplished was enriching the insiders who created them. HFSP

This is why the "crypto" narrative gets pushed so much. The exchanges, VC's, shatcoin insiders, etc want clueless retail "traders" swapping 100 useless tokens, with leverage so they can reap max profit. 99.99% of people have no business trading.

Very few VC's and insiders profit from the super simple and time proven "dollar cost average buys of bitcoin only and hold your own keys" - Yet nothing in the "crypto" (cringe) space has been (or will be IMO) better than this strategy.

If any of you think the stock market is any different your kidding yourself.

Right. Imagine how silly our monetary system is that it requires us to prop up mega-corperations that hate our lifestyles and politics in order to preserve our wealth.

Watch and see, XRP and XLM is going to create a bunch of millionaires in the coming years

Well i hope it goes up, I bought a little XLM at .45 and a few more at .55. think ill buy a little while its in the 30's just so i can make up my loss. Maybe one day it will be worth a couple bucks a piece. I figure it wont hurt to gamble a couple hundred bucks. wish i had some when it was a couple cents a share.

Only thing with ripple(XRP) at the moment is its current issues with the SEC. KInda need to see what happens with that. Once those issues are cleared things might improve there. XRP is still cant be traded on Coinbase.

Do you think riot is worth buying?

Not really crypto related, but sort of

If you look at the SPY chart. It shows a very distinct ascending wedge pattern. The tip of the wedge appears to meet in the very near future. Couple days, maybe a week.

When it meets, it’s generally very bad news for the markets.

Proceed with caution

If they finally pass the stimulus package, disaster averted

I think if/when the stimulus bill passes we will see a sell off , not a rally. But I think, in the long run we will see 4450 or thereabouts on the S&P by year end. It won't be fun getting there though.

Reading charts is almost as fun as reading critter sign

Just a lot more profitable

Had to look away from the red lines. Good day to untangle the scrap wire and start to strip off the insulation.

15 plus percent increase. I suppose anything is possible with multiple more stimulus bills, plus the FED will reignite QE. The free market is increasing bond yields, the FED won't tolerate that much longer.

There is no chance interest rates will rise this year.. Everybody is getting on the train when it's ready to go off the cliff. Keep some powder dry

The fed may not like it but there isn't much they can do about it.

If they start pumping more cash into the system it will just drive the 10 year note's yield that much higher. The fed is really in a bind IMO.

IMHO the FED has been in a bind since they tried to solve the 08 crisis by lowering rates to zero and QE.

Tjey will have to pump more money into the system. It isn't the right thing to do but they'll do it anyway.

I agree. Been a long time. But look at Japan. They have been in negative real territory for decades and can't find a way out.

The problem today is the ten year yield is rising very quickly............due to increased perception of inflation. The fed doesn't dare add cash or that will just heighten that perception and push that yield even higher. Add 1.9 trillion from congress and it will just compound the problem.

I think, at this point , the only tool the Fed has left is to manipulate the yield curve at all maturities. That will work for a day or two but everyone can see through that.

Musical chairs on the Titanic !!

The deficit is past the point of fix or repair in any ones life time over 45, not going to happen and even trying to do so most won't live to see an equality in spending and use.

I'm sorry about it as well, the kids kids don't have much chance either, terribly said but we the people are as responsible for it as the government printing it.

One cannot just stand by and expect the government change anything with out speaking out in force enough to make your self heard, this country has not the fortitude to do so at this time !!

Just sold some number 1 bare bright copper today $2.85 and rising. Scrap is rising. After selling sheet for 50.00 a ton. Good to see it at 130.00 a ton now. Something is rising Stock market has sure turned. Waiting to watch it settle so I can buy.

Ken, no way can they let rates rise. They will destroy the $ before they figure out how bad they messed up although they will blame it on the Russians(sarcasm)

These next couple weeks are going too be fun

For sure there is no way THEY will raise rates but the bond market is a pretty powerful thing.

It really ISN'T a joke about the Russians..... The Iranians, Chinese and Russians are all deeply involved in Bitcoin mining in an attempt to dethrone the dollar as the world's reserve currency.........So it really IS the Russians !

It's not the Russians fault we decided to become a consumer driven economy backed by debt.

It wasn't the Russians fault we abandoned a sound money policy when it comes to our money.

It's not their fault federal government has 160 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.

The bond market, ie the free market, is a powerful thing and eventually it will win. I don't think today is the day though. If the free market is allowed to raise long term interest rates it will destroy the housing bubble and for then for sure it's game over.

Anyways, bitcoin is down to 44 and change, possible buying opportunity coming up.

Bitcoin broke 60k early this morning. About a 100 off atm. Litecoin getting closer to it's all time high.

60,415 was the high according to coinbase.

100k in 2021? Or zero?

1400$ stimmy + 10 200$ free unemployment

Bitcoin too the moon!!!

Former is more likely than the latter. Unless an EMP happens or cryptos are criminalized.

Sneaking back up on 60k

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/visa-moves-to-allow-payment-settlements-using-cryptocurrency.html

Back over 60k, briefly over 61 this morning

Bonds and Cash. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...s-what-he-recommends-instead-11615863155

I have to agree with Dalio

Nice little move up in the AM

We are in uncharted waters, but world history shows us the wealthy get more wealthy amidst economic swings in all directions.
So make sure you're amongst the top percentile on the leader board and you should be fine.

63k atn

Sniper, are you riding the DOGE wave?

Nope. I'm sticking to the ones that have actual usage. Doge is the meme stock of cryptos and created as a joke.

Creeping back up.

Doubt it gets back to where it was.

Maybe buts it's blown past it's highs every time it's crashed.

It’s interesting to watch. Kind-of like a game of musical chairs on the Titanic. The cyber-ether world scares me. I like dealing in tangibles. .

What will Elon whisper next???

Saw this morning he said Tesla would take take Bitcoin again if miners used cleaner energy

I'm guessing the reason you like tangibles is not because you're Scrooge McDuck and want to swan dive into gold/silver coins but more likely you don't fully trust others to custody your wealth/valuables and you highly regard private property rights.

Well, me too. That's why I love Bitcoin so much. I can (and do) easily custody in such a manner than even a State actor would have a very difficult time stealing from me. Same with moving to a new jurisdiction, if needed. I'm also easily able to assay my holdings myself using a cheap mini computer and open source software.

Best of luck to you.

Taking Musk at his words, its weird to me how he (via his company Tesla) owns 1.5Billion USD worth of BTC yet doesn't understand it. He makes the complete rookie mistake of conflating Bitcoin's energy usage with its on-chain transactions. The energy usage secures the network as a whole at all times (including Tesla's 43k BTC), not individual transactions. Also, many transactions are now happening on 2nd layers. Unless maybe he does understand it but is purposely spreading lies to use hos weird cult-like celebrity status to move markets.

I'm hoping he puts his money where his mouth is and dumps his BTC. Short term the price would surely take a hit but a long term cleanse of this big gov carbon credit crony would be fantastic.

I would not be surprised to see the SEC or similar start to look at Musk with an eye toward market manipulation.

Pretty clear that he is trying to tweet his way to profitability at TSLA.

If it weren't for selling RIN's to refiners and other car companies and the BTC on his balance sheet, TSLA would not show a profit from building cars.

He's supposed to be some whiz kid engineer who just recently realized how much energy is used mining bitcoin ???? Come on man !!

DecoyMacoy, I love personal freedom and free enterprise. If you find it in Bitcoin, I wish you well.

Won't happen (in any meaningful way). The SEC (Fed Gov) and Musk are on the same team. This team simply wants more power/more control.

Musk plays the part of weird genius out to save the world in the name of "green" energy and in return gets direct access to the biggest honeypot the world has even known, the US Dollar.

I don't think Elon owns Bitcoin himself. That big purchase was by Tesla which is a publicly traded company.

60,000 will be in the rearview mirror someday

Elon is a global warming nut which is why he says he's trying to colonize Mars.

Yes. I edited my post to reflect this. While Musk has a mammoth amount of control over Tesla (many CEO of publicly traded co's do not) I should have been more specific to Tesla's BTC not Musk personal holdings, if any.

Bitcoin back to 41k and Etherium is back to 2300+

Just in case you've not looked at your accounts lately

Inching up on 50k.

Breached 50k this morning

Wait a minute !!!

I thought Jbyrd63 proclaimed bitcoin dead & buried ?

w

Don't listen to geographically confused Kentuckians

priceless

51k again

More than once.

If governments can't regulate its fluctuations, or tax its profits, why would we assume it will ever be a legal tender in any country. Imagine if a barrel of oil was tied to Bitcoin. How would transportation possibly budget their business? How would you operate any business that used fuel? How would you bid on contracts if you had no way to hedge the currency swings?

Governments shouldn't regulate. The market should.

Oh and any profits made by selling cryptocurrency has always been a taxable event

C'mon man. Crypto profits are capital gains, though I would assume the people mining it might might have some fancy accounting to determine the tax liabilities. El Salvador has basically made Bitcoin their official currency. "Normal" currencies fluctuate all the time.

Governments cant regulate the values of their own currencies, though they can do things that can influence what the value is(inflation/deflation as a result of spending policies). That's how George Soros made a lot of his money by causing several countries currencies to crash.

55k was breached this .morning.

On "volatility"....

The natural state of almost everything on earth is always changing.

The odd attribute, the outlier, the weird thing is "stable".

If something is stable for any material amount of time it is manipulated. Volatility is just a matter of time.

If bitcoin remains extremely volatile like it has been it won't make it a viable medium of exchange for the masses

57 to 58k.

Someone didn't get the memo

Think Bitcoin ETFs just got the regulatory go ahead

A futures based Bitcoin ETF doesn't even begin to budge my GAFmeter.

Reminder: With a small amount of education/work Bitcoin is extremely easy to self custody in a manner that even a State actor/military would have a tough time confiscating from you. Few understand this. Even fewer understand the implications.

It does drive speculation though, which is possibly behind part of the rise though it's been on a slow rise again basically since the IRS reporting thing was proposed and before that

60k cleared.

Almost 63,000 at one time this afternoon.

What do you think Sniper, is it going to set a new high?

If the dollar starts to weaken as it should it will blow through a hundred thousand.

All time high is 64,899, Id take even odds bets on it breaking 80k by end of the year.

Wouldnt be surprised if we got over 100k by then

Bitcoin is designed to replace the US dollar . I would bet this is George Soros at work buying it up in an attempt to get others to follow to crash the dollar.

Those that are investing in it are helping replace the US dollar as the global currency.

After China banned Bitcoin mining and trading, The US has now taken the lead as the biggest Bitcoin mining hub.

Last August the US was responsible for just 4% of the worlds Bitcoin mining activity, Its now over 35%. But since mining for Bitcoin uses so much energy you can probably look forward to Biden putting the brakes on it for environmental reasons. I would not want to be holding it when that happens.

You cant mine Bitcoin on expensive energy, the profit isnt there. The miners run when power is cheap,ie at night, not during peak times.

In light of the irresponsible inflating of the US currency in the last 50 years, something will eventually take it's place.

I'd prefer a gold standard.

There is a D-USD coming .

Yep part of the prophecy before the rapture no currency ! Plagues Just saying

Failed every time its been tried. What will be different this time?

Gold requires too much trust that the institutions holding the gold (which backs the currency) are fully reserved.

With Bitcoin we're past needing trusted third parties to store our wealth and dish us out useless IOUs

I still prefer gold. It always was and always will be. Don't confuse my last statement as being anti Bitcoin.

Jbyrd let's keep that rapture nonsense off this discussion. Regardless of what you looks may think it's still the best time for the average human to be alive in history.

Bitcoin layer 1 wasn’t designed, or is even capable of replacing the US dollar. Layer 2 or 3 options is where things get interesting, though El Salvador has shown there’s still lots of work to be done.

66k, all time high

Wait! What?

It cannot be so, not for all the reports of its demise.

Bitcoin is useless it has no value.You cant eat it nor will it keep you warm.
I like made beaver or made marten.At least they will keep you warm and that value will rise when all the power goes out after the nuclear blasts..

Can't eat your 401k or pension either.

Exactly the same house of cards.Those who have stuff and or skills to barter will be fine.
Those hoarding useless paper or numbers on computers will be screwed blued and tattooed.

Ah actually you can borrow against your 401k. So in reality yes. I could feed myself quite well on my 401k. Pay for an education. Etc.... Just saying. But not knocking BitCoin. Glad you hit a high on it. Just not for me

Not in bocos scenario

Thats why you diversify.

In an end of the world scenario Bitcoin would be useless assuming the grid is gone. But when it resets? Who knows.


Gold and silver will have value for eternity.

The US. Dollar is in it's death throws.

Spend your money on useful things when you get it.If you have too much buy goodwill with those around you.You cant take money with you and it is useless after your dead,and it may wind up useless before your dead.

New high coming?

if these new spending bills go into effect, probably by thanksgiving. was within a few hundred on a new high today. though its dropped back to 65400. which is still up 20% in the last 30 days

New high:67,700

Glad it is working out for you

It would feel better if the price of everything else in the world wasn't also going up.. .if it weren't for BTC and other cryptos, I'd hate to see what precious metals would be doing right now. Think gold is at 1800ish?

how do you spend it?

Either sell it for USD or use a service that uses Bitcoin for currency.

New high today, 69,000. Precious metals spiked up as well.

Sniper when I asked the other day when it would set a new high you said probably by Thanksgiving. You were 100 percent right although it will be many new highs by then. 100,000 by Thanksgiving? Probably not, first of the year wouldn't surprise me.

Not quite dead amd buried yet

Not for me

Hmm cant change title anymore but Bitcoin trending towards 30k after worries about banks. Oddly there was a crypto bank, Silvergate, that went under first before Signature and Silicon Valley, likely why it isn't there already. It will be interesting to follow this year.

I feel like it's bored laid off tech workers driving crypto, probably not but maybe.

Hearing that the banks that went under where major off ramps from crypto too cash???

Basically it’s become very difficult to get cash out, easy to put cash in???


Not into crypto myself, can anyone confirm or deny this???

Thanks

They cant afford the payments on their teslas to mess with cryptos anymore. Which would drive a selloff.

No, its still pretty easy to get money out if you're using exchanges. If you were in a fund then you might of had issues

What does the KY Bird say?

A total scam

some, maybe most are, like DOGE but at least with DOGE , they let everyone know it is. why people buy it still is astounding to me. The thing that drives bitcoin and certain other cryptos is that the backbones they are built on have real world applicability. Bitcoin is basically a payment processor1

Yep

Back to 33k

PRAISE THA LOOURD!

Bitcoin USD
Watchlist
Last Updated: Dec 4, 2023 at 7:56 a.m. EST
$
40,339
1,337 3.43%

Is it a GOOD thing for our government to be the second highest owner of Bitcoin?

Never a good idea for the government to own anything.

Took you long enough lol

What do you think? 50k going to get topped?

By a bunch

It's not lookingike it will right now , came close early yesterday.. The ETF thing has been in the news for a while and that's probably been the main driver of the price. I wonder if the there was some pre buying of BTC for the ETFs. My understanding of the SEC ruling is the ETFs have to actually hold the BTC. Also a big batch of BTC was released by miners somewhat recently . If they didn't prebuy, we might see another spike unless they're slow walking the purchasing. Lot of profit taking yesterday and it's back down to 46

Also should be noted that Bitcoin ETFs existed before this ruling. The ruling was approving spot priced ETFs.

Approaching 50k


BTCUSD
CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index (XBX)
$48,335
0.92%
442

Bitcoin is a fake get rich scheme. Like all stocks when they get high, sell them to someone else. Everyime someone buys one someone has to sell one. Bitcoin is still valued in dollars so it's a scam. When it gets its own value, I'll buy some.

kindly scroll on till you do a bit of research on bitcoin.

A lot of folks are going too be sitting around watching the Super Bowl, talking about bitcoin


Imagine we’ll see a fomo bump these next few days,,,,,,,,


Don’t own any bitcoin myself,,,,,,,MSTR is my play

It’s been working great!!!

I doubt there will be any crypto commercials during the superbowl after what happened last time.

Fidelity and Blackrock are somewhat pushing it after the ETF approval so that likely will have some impact upon demand

Supply of bitcoin to buy on the exchanges is not particularly high at moment. And the halving happens later in the year

You are correct:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/crypto-absent-again-super-bowl-ads

When ever a group of people get together,,, no matter how large


There’s always one weirdo that wants to talk about crypto

Cleared 50k today

Yea got text notice today

So, where do y'all buy your bitcoin from? I buy my stocks through E-trade but it appears they don't sell bitcoin.

I use Swan but I only dabble in it

You can get it at a variety of exchanges, person to person transfer or there are even "ATM" s in some areas you can buy it or convert to cash.

57k plus today.

Sniper, what effects do you think the halving will have on the market?

In theory the halving should raise the prices naturally. . How much of a jump we'll see is unfortunately in the hands of the speculators right now.

For those that dont know, "the halving" means that the rate at which the remaining BTC's available to be mined will be reduced. Thus it will be more expensive for the miners to discover the remaining bitcoins.

The last halving that occurred was may 2020 and price rose over 600% over the next year. That occurred during the heart of covid and before a lot of the ETFs and institutional investors going heavily involved.I hardly thing it will rise 600% because then it would be over 300,000, which would be really nuts.

Speaking of institutiional investors, Bkackrocks BTC EFT trading volume has been over $1 BILLION the last two days. If a rally hits again I think we could see 80k but with the elections coming im just not sure of the likelihood of another big rally until after the election unless a major shakeup occurs.

Another important date is December 15 2024


FASB crypto ruling comes into effect

btc 61k this morning, hit 64k briefly

just a few stats from coinbase right now...since its working again

Market cap
$1.2T

Volume (24h)
$68.5B
+29.92%

Circulating supply
19.6M BTC
94% of total supply

64,xxx. A new all time high in the works

I'll be seeing a lot of this soon. LOL!

Supply halves. Demand doubles. Price quadruples

Seems too easy,,,,,,,

Hit 68k even today, back down to 67.5k atm

At the close saylor announces Proposed Private Offering of $600 Million of Convertible Senior Notes,,,,,, to buy more btc


Gonna get sporty!!

Are those the Canadian version of preferred stocks?

https://www.microstrategy.com/press...n-of-convertible-senior-notes_03-04-2024

Bitcoin briefly hit 70k today back to 68k currently

72.4k new high today, 71.9 currently

Inflation data tomorrow


Stay humble

Looked at a story this morning where some firms are targeting a 150k BTC price. Its crazy but we are in crazy times and it would indicate things are really crazy if that did hit.