303 Enfield vs Mosin Nagant

If you had to choose between these two cheap surplus rifles which would you choose and why?

I lean towards the Mosin Nagant. Not for any technical reason but only because I'm a bit of a Russophile.

I have great respect for those living in America's stocking cap (Canadia)and know many of them have a fondness for the 303 and probably for good reason.

I had a British .303 years ago. Good gun, it was as accurate as I allowed it to be. But ammo could be difficult to find. And all the reloading manuals stated that .303 brass didn't have the life of other calibers before they had to be discarded. When I bought it I bought a box of ammo and poured 20 rounds through it... The rifle had a brass buttplate and I took a good beating. Shoulder was purple and green the next day. Lol

I know little about the Mosin Nagant. I believe it 7.62 x 54 (correct?) Ammo seems to be easy to find.

Mike

I collect the Mosins, but the British Enfield is a better hunting rifle as issued. Better safety and sights. As a military weapon they were developed for two very different armies. Both worked for their respective militaries.

I think whichever rifle people start out with is their "go to" rifle most of the time. They learn how to use it and get confident with it. A good trapper can catch with any brand of trap but we all have a favorite and there is a bunch of variety. The first coyote on a lure a guy catches quickly becomes a favorite etc. Mosin or Enfield either one are quality firearms. We could discuss problems and attributes for the rest of the day but there are plenty of both out there, still feeding people and still shooting paper at an afternoon range outing.

incidentally, both were manufactured here also- Mosins by Remington and Westinghouse, and the SMLE by Savage.

Mosins have huge variation in quality, ide go with the 303 but they don't seem to be very cheap any longer?

Ive seen both at similar price points. Most of the Mosins seem to also come with a packet of old ammo too.

Ive seen some pretty beat up Mosins and some nicier looking. I'm no gun expert so I wouodnt know what is a good gun until I shoot it

I've only really been around one .303 British it was my dad's yes I shot my first deer with it and learned that I've got a love hate relationship with peep sights . I still have dies for it and a box of bullets for it sadly after dad passed away it and some of the other thing's of his disappeared some day I'll find another that I can afford .

I don't know which rifle is better. I know there is still a ton of very cheap WW2 ammo for the Mosins. If you want modern ammo (non corrosive), there is a ton of that available too.

I've got 2 303's
No 4 MK I 1943 Long Branch
Enfield 1915 SMLE 3
The No 4 was my deer rifle until last year and I've put hundreds of rounds through that gun. It's got a synthetic stock and a top mount scope with a Nikon Pro Staff. I get 1" groups if I do my part. The recoil is almost non existent. I got a heck of a deal on a 6.5 T/C Compass off Gunbroker or I'd still be using it. I wouldn't hesitate to take it out anyway.
The other one was my Dad's gun that he used. That ones shot a pile of deer. The wood stock is cut down (sporterized) but there's no scope on it.
I have no experience with a Mosin.

Prior to the revolution of 1917 in Russia, the Russian Gov't placed a large order with Remington to produce Mosin Nagant rifles for them. When the revolution changed the government in Russia, the new communist gov't renegged on the order, or contract. Remington had all of these rifles to deal with, so they sold them off as surplus here in the US (and maybe elsewhere too).

Just work the bolt on each rifle. SMLE will win hands down. I like rifles I don't have to pull away from my face to work the bolt. Many Mosin Nagant rifles are very stiff. 10 round magazine is a plus too. I loved my No. 4 SMLE rifles I've had over the years. Never been too attached to any of the Mosins, not even the Finnish one I had.

Not to change the subject but I will as far as military surplus I would be looking at a 6.5 Swede.

My son had a Nagant,the bolt ran stiff,but the worst thing was the safety.It took almost two hands to pull the thing back and twist.And nothing worked that would loosen it up.I don't know if thats indicative of them or not,but he never used it because of that reason.Shooting off the bench accuracy was as good as could be expected,the caliber is close to a .308 if I remember right.My experience with the .303 is with my Mark 5 Jungle carbine,bolt runs smooth,safety is easy and it too is accurate as can be expected.I grew up with peep sights so those were no big deal.I personally love the gun and the caliber.Ammo was easy to find,I haven't bought any in a while but from what I'm reading here from others its not as available as it used to be.I'm not knocking the Nagant,my gut feeling was the the .303 was the better made of the two,while the Russian is more crude but won't quit.My 2 cents anyway.

Just picked up my 4th Mosin today. A bit rusty but the price was right at just under $100.00 at Cabelas no less. I fired over 100 rounds yesterday between my 91/30 and my M 44 with folding bayonet. I have a few parts guns I have been scrounging parts for here and there. I am partial to Mosins, they are crazy simple, ammo is dirt cheap with a very large variety. Just got some armor piercing incendiary a while back to shoot 1 lb. propane tanks for fun. Grandson has taken a nice whitetail doe with the M44. I am partial to Mosins. The safety can be fixed with a Max Shepard cocking piece $30-40 + shipping, with a finger ring on it. Keeping your original for later

The Enfield was in service when the sun never set on the British Empire, the 303 British Enfield has probably killed every species of game animal known. The Mosin is capable of that but hasn't had the world wide use like the Enfield has. I think the Enfield is more user friendly by far.

The Mosin Nagant was made from 1891 to 1965 37 million were made it has been used by many countries from 1891 to present. Comes with a cleaning kit that contains one tool for complete teardown, firing pin measurement and reassembly. With folding bayonet on carbine models and removable on standard model. Sniper models were used by Russia to make shots 500+ yards. The Enfield and Mosin are both great rifles, but are in a different class. Our of our members, "Caribou" I think, from Life Below Zero fame often use Mosins for hunting on the show. I want a Enfield for my collection but prices have gone up on all Milsurps.

What do you think kept the Russians at bay in Afghnaistan the 303 British. A lot of surplus was bought up at that time in Canada.

Prices have gone up on all milsurps?You got that right!I don't expect prices to sit still,and I realize their worth whatever somebody is willing to pay, but jeez!I bought a 96 swedish mauser from Walmart in the late '80's for $70,today I see them listed for $350-$400!8mm mausers they practically gave away are now selling for close to a $1000,if they have the Nazi stampings on them.I paid $200 for my Postal Meter M-1 carbine around '90,today I see them listing for $900-$1200.When I grew up in the '70;s deer camps were full of surplus rifles because they worked well and were cheap.Today a guy can pay more for a surplus rifle over a new commercial one.I keep hearing the surplus rifles are way overpriced but year after year the price just keeps going up.My son's Mosin-Nagant cost me $49.95 at Dunhams in Escanaba around 2005 or so.

I hunted with a .303 jungle carbine for a few years when I started hunting. I was 12 years old and could hardly operate the bolt. But I killed several deer with it till I got an 03-A3 to hunt with. I remember my dad telling me about a fella who lived near their farm in Oil City Pa who brought a Mosin Nagant back from WWII and put a scope on it for a deer rifle, a radical idea back then, but my dad was impressed by it. I think for awhile he had a MN too. I'd opt for the .303, MHO.

was tempted to buy both over the years , but I bought a 1903A3 instead for just a touch more than they are asking for either of the Mosin or 303.

sold the 03A3 because while it was a great iron sight gun mounting a scope was going to be a pain and a costly. got every dollar I had in the 03a3 out of it and bought a brand new production 308.

putting up with a surplus gun for hunting made sense when they were under 100 dollars and a good hunting rifle was over 500

but now that the 303 or the Mosin are around $300

I would give the edge to the 303 for an easier to remove safety for hunting and better sights Russian safeties are hardly worth using they just don't use them like we do where you don't click off the safety till you pull up on the deer. best thing I have seen to make a MN safety some what usable is to make a loop off the back of it so that you have a place to stick a finger in pull and turn.

I have a cousin who uses his safety like a Russian , he only puts it on when he is walking back to the truck after season is over, not that I trust any ones safety but you sure never walk in front of him.

it depends are you buying it to have shooting fun and not hunt it , if so the mosin has the least expensive ammo.

303 ammo is still reasonably available especially in hunting ammo PPU makes some decent stuff but Rem and WIn make it also.

both guns can easily suffer from oversize bore

I've only handled one Enfield in my life, but I didn't like a rifle that cocked on closing. I know most don't care either way but I didn't like it.

Just me I guess.

Pete

i love the 303, i had one back in 2009-1012 and she was a big heavy old beast but just a joy to shoot and play about with shot a few deer with it for the sake of it, i would dearly love a model t sniper but they are silly money now for a original of you can find one.

i have shot a moisin a few times and it just seemed like a poorly made bakial! kicked like a mule and stiff in every way.

the 303 has been serving for what 100 plus years? it was still the standard issue sniper untill about the 90s? and i belive the canadian gaurd are stil using them now but being phased out

Enfield by far. You can get neck sizing only dies that will let you get more loads out of the brass. My only complaint is that some times you have to fiddle with the mags to get them to feed different ammo and for that matter mags are hard to come by and aftermarket suck but you're not supposed to swap mags like you can in a modern rifle anyway.

Mosin nagant "Saftey? Comrade doesn't need safety. Just point at enemy" Difficult to put a scope on a straight bolt Mosin Nagant if that matter to you.

Haven't look at prices lately but Enfields where always priced much higher than Mosin Nagants in the past.

I always look forward to your detailed responses. Thanks.

mainly looking for a fun piece of history to shoot. I will also hunt with it but more for fun not primary hunting rifle.

I have 2 Mosin 91/30. One is the long version. And I have the carbine/city version.

I have purchased a case of military ammo in the past. Most is sold off. Some to a sporting goods store.

I also have some practice ammo that's 43 grain and shoots fairly accurate put to 100 yards.

then a NO.4 mk1 is the way to go in my opinion I like the peep sight much better

yes the Lee Enfield 303 brit is a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) on close , they liked that because it make it very fast 40 round mad minute with 10 round magazines an enemies reported they were being fired on my a machine gun when it was a few trained men with en-field rifles keeping up a constant rate of fire. (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) on close is different feeling at first but not bad

the jungle carbine is a handy size if you find one in good shape


Lee makes a collet die that sqeezes the neck around a mandril , if you keep the brass clean it re-loads very fast as you can take the lube and clean steps out , just fired but clean of debris brass size and decap & size in up stroke if you prime on press prime on the down stroke , dump powder , seat bullet and crimp bullet . I use this for my 308 bolt guns it loads like it were pistol brass no lube , no trim . I lost track of how many times I have reloaded 308 brass , more than 6

here is a nice read on the 303 https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...e-greatest-bolt-action-of-the-great-war/

there was just a huge gap in the philosophy of use between the 303 and the Mosin Nagant.
the 303 was a rifle for riflemen of one of the most highly trained armies in the world capable of making hits at distance the Enfield evolved. the Mosin is a tool that hardly evolved over a century.

yes the Enfield will cost more but you will also have more.

there is a huge amount of history behind the Enfield , there are american made Savage Enfields , some US troops ended up carrying an enfield.

our good friends to the north while phasing them out currently have used them till very recently for the Arctic Rangers

but that is just my opinion

In the 60's and 70's there were Lee Enfield rifles everywhere.They sold for $20 because there were so many around and were used for deer and moose hunting everywhere in the bush.Every house had at least one.
Poachers loved them because they were so cheap to purchase.
I have killed moose and bear with the 303 british, and millions of deer must have went down to the enfield.

Update: I took my time and did lots of browsing and asking around. I'm picking up a Mosin Friday night.

It has a round receiver receiver but scalloped as opposed to the bulkier non-scalloped receiver. Pretty sure was made in/by Tula.

Owned and shot both For a hunter the 303 for the safety as stated above For fun on the range a mosin's hard to beat especially if your looking for an unmodified rifle

It is an Izhevsk Arsenal made 91/30 and has been refurbished as evidenced by the small bisected square stamp. The arrow in triangle is the arsenal mark. 1942 is a very common year.

Thanks man. That bisected square stamp is actually a "T" in a square.

I was also thinking 42 but the other numbers made me thing maybe June 9th 45 if the letters stood for gôd (year) and mesets (month)

Can you explain which marks told you what?

a couple years back when .22 ammo was so high I was at an auction. There were several 303's there, and cases of ammo. The rifles went for $80 avg, and the ammo went for about .02 cents a round.

Izhevsk arsenal mark is the small triangle with an arrow just below the serial number. Just above the 1942 date is a small box with a vertical line bisecting it- that is a refurbishment mark. Production for 1942 was in the several millions and because the Red Army was retreating on all fronts,emergency measures were taken to speed production. These include some very rough machining marks left on external surfaces. This rifle could have been at Stalingrad. After the war these were put in storage for issue to militia in case of need during the cold war. After being in storage for a while, many were taken out and extensively rebuilt/refinished as a Communist "make work" program. Typically all the parts were separately cleaned and re-assembled with no regard for serial number. They were then "force matched" by removing or defacing the old serial number and a new one stamped to match. Finally after the fall of communism, these were sold to Western countries for hard currency. The P.W. Arms stamp on the receiver is an import stamp from this importer in Washington state. now you get to wright the rest of it's history...............

Nice.

I know about the import stamp.

From my very limited knowledge many of the quickly produced ones during the seige years didnt have scalloped receivers. Thoughts?

What do you think the GM 4569 stands for?

Thanks for your insight. I'm a bit of a Russophile.

take advantage of it?

I too love my Mosins, I just picked up my fourth last Saturday, a 1927 91/30, ex Dragoon. Its my third 91/30, others are both 1943. I also have a M44 carbine along with a assortment of spare parts. A 1954 Romainian barreled action I have been collecting parts for.

Google 7.62x54r .net , A wealth of Mosin Nagant info including markings and what they mean. Also plenty of pics of different models.

The serial number is often re-stamped by the importer and the 2 letter prefix is converted from the original Cyrillic alphabet to our alphabet.
The website referenced by Feedinggrounds is a must for markings.

Nope,..................I thought about it for cheap plinking, etc, but I've never caught the milsurp bug.

Years ago Enfield 303's were common around here. Don't see them very much anymore for some reason.

Thanks will do