pond for wisconsin landowners

I'm looking into buying an old farmstead...can a fella just dig a pond for his livestock, or do I need to jump through some hoops? then bend over backwards, then forwards...no trout streams close by...thx

You can dig a pond less than a quarter/acre no permits, local zoning may be different.

Digging a pond for livestock is called a stock dam.
The answer to your question is a bit complicated after Obama unleashed on landowners and tried making puddles in your driveway wetlands. There are programs where partial payment or full payment for water construction by USDA or Fish and Wildlife is available, but there are regulations in they can not be destroyed and USFW likes to think they own the thing.
It all depends in I have dug several "ponds" and I never contacted anyone as I am in a remote area, and all the farmers and stockmen who did the same thing just got a payloader or an earthmover and dug a dam. I have made Texas tanks in digging down some sloughs for waterfowl and wildlife, so they hold water better. None of these are waterways though, which if you start damming up those you will probably get some state employee's attention, as Wisconsin like Minnesota likes sticking their noses into private activities. Each state is different.
I can give you an example of this moron who lived around here decided to cut through a river channel of an oxbow. I thought that would get him into real trouble, but no one paid the least attention to him. Fools get by with lots of things. I would though at least do a search online and see if Wisconsin has any regulations on it, as it is kind of hard to hide a pond once one appears.

I was thinking 2-3 acres...maybe a little bigger

Start with the DNR

would rather avoid Gov help if I can...just looking for input

How close are you to any navigable waterways? Or wetlands, floodplain?

I live on a canal that leads to a very large lake and river. I planning on excavating a boat slip. I’ve applied for a permit with the DNR. Which most likely will lead to @ least 1, if not 2 more from them. Then @ least 1 from the Army Corp of Engineers and 1 from the County and 1 from the township.

Follow the questionnaire at the bottom of this page and see if you even need to ask for permission.

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/waterways/construction/ponds.html

it took me 7 months to get permit for dive way 300 feet long they said it was wet land if you say its a farm the rules are different wish I would have known this

this helps, thank much!

It is advisable that you at least start with NRCS at the local office in Medford. They will let you know the do's and don'ts of digging a pond. A 2-3 acre pond is quite large for livestock. Presuming the livestock you're planning for are cattle, they require a significant infrastructure when starting from scratch.

Over the years, the folks who "avoided gov't" and went ahead with digging projects, more often than not violated state or federal prohibitions and got their hand slapped pretty good. Just sayin...

DO NOT contact DNR Or NRCS.
Contact township that you are located in.
They usually will have a permit thats required.
Get that permit and your USUALLY OK to go.

You'll have to feel it out.

Alot depends upon where you are. More rural easy, near high population centers you'll have trouble.

The DNR has lots of rules for where you can dig.

I had bought 55 acres that had a very small creek flow thru it and it boarded a river on one side.
I asked DNR about building a pond in the low area close to the river. If I remember right the number was 500 ft, I could not dig closer than 500 ft to the river. Its interesting in that the area was a cornfield at the time. So it was regularly plowed.
I asked about the reasoning for the 500 ft, to prevent erosion into the river. The farmer could regular expose fresh dirt to as close as he wanted to the river but I couldn't make a pond, plant native grasses and improve the area for wildlife while disturbing the ground within 500 ft of the river one time only. Seems kinda opposite of what the DNR would want.

Also the small creek that could be stepped over flowed into this river. I needed to cross that creek to get to the building site.
I was warned not to involve DNR as that occasionally will get Army Corps of Eng. involved. Navigable waterway restrictions. I was told to get a culvert, put it in where I wanted and not say anything to anyone. This is pretty much standard operating procedure for farmers/landowners in this situation when by law there all kinds of rules the Feds have about making bridges/stream crossings.

I ultimately had to walk away from the property as the township got too restrictive on where I could build on the property.

Just be aware that the bigger the gov't body you talk to the more rules and regulations there are.

I disagree with this. Most townships in Wisconsin have no ordinance concerning pond construction, and have no authority whatsoever concerning a navigable waterway. You will most likely be looking at county, DNR and more for permits.

Zim

Very True stuff.

I'm retired NRCS (SCS) soil & water conservationist. Over the 32+ years in the field throughout WI, I observed ( and was called in on ) enough situations where landowners began digging without talking to anyone and ended up violating state ( and sometimes federal ) statutes. As has been stated, townships usually don't have any ordinances pertaining to digging ponds, etc., as they would rather leave this to others. I worked with several DNR Water Regs in my work, also the COE.

I covered 16 field offices and 22 counties, including where you are, so I know your neighborhood fairly well.

FWIW, it is working smarter to check in with county zoning and/or DNR before you begin your project - to make sure your plans are not considered a violation. It's much easier to find out in advance of any digging, than to learn you're in violation. When we would get asked by a landowner in advance and there were no potential issues, then go for it. Once a violation occurred and we were called in, the landowner had very few realistic options by that time.

This is not meant in a negative manner......"ignorance is no excuse". We all know this as outdoorsmen, trappers, hunters, etc.

Just speaking from experience..

Vic

do not contact any govt agency - just dig it where you want it. If they don't like it, they will tell you

seriously, though, call it a farm and run cows through it and you will qualify for an ag exemption for a 404 permit through USACE

Ok.....in MO there may be very few restrictions. Last time I looked, the OP is in Taylor County, WI.

If you violate any state/federal statutes in WI, you will likely be required to fully restore (at your expense) the violation site to previous conditions. This usually does not involve a fine, but can.

As a potential agricultural producer, you may desire future financial assistance from USDA (drought assistance, grazing assistance, crop insurance, etc.). IF you are in violation of federal statutes (example : Swampbuster Violation ), your "shopping list" will be very short.

Enough said......

If one thinks that they can do this sort of thing without going through the proper channels is only fooling themselves. Both the DNR and the Corps of Engs. regularly use satellite images to monitor these changes and activities. And if caught. The fines can be significant.

Example; A close friend of mine want to add a culvert in a small spring seep in order to get his compact tractor on the other side of his property. He went to the DNR office to see about obtaining a permit. So the pulled up sat. images and asked why there were 3 wood planks crossing the creek? He said that they were put there when building the barb wire fence only 1 week prior. They showed him how they can overlay images from day to day, one if needed. By the way; he received a fine for not getting a permit to build a bridge. Which consisted of those 3 boards.

Great advice, from someone that won't have to pay for the consequences if done wrong. The days of hiding something like that are long gone.

thank you all for the great advice! I can't think of a reason they would turn down a pond permit, but I don't trust Gov't agencies at all when it comes to dealing with normal folks... the property in question is actually in Price county, and... remote is a good term for it. LOL..I don't consider it a wetland, and the nearest creek is over a 1/4 mile away ..unsure if it is considered navigable..If I get the old farm I'll probably buy the equipment to make the pond, and any improvements, then sell it..maybe

Building a pond without permits is a great way to spend thousands of dollars, and still end up without a pond. Often their reasons are crazy, but don’t think for a second you can build a 2-3 acre pond and hide it.

some of this makes me chuckle inside.....I am sitting less than half a mile from a major stream re-routing project of which required a most definite 404 permit. Guess what, the USACE, is carrying out the milcon project and decided they don't need one - whatever.......as well EO 11990 is not hardly ever followed today. If it was, there would be NO federal dollars used for the degradation of any wetlands such as pond creations, wetland mitigations etc.....so pick and choose which laws you want to follow and which you want to break......the gov does everyday.

Why would you need to hide it? Plow it up and call it a corn field with a wet spot....

start with county drain commission

I suggest you start with the local NRCS office on the SW side of Meford.
Discuss what you've got in mind, they'll let you know if there would be any conflicts or issues, one way or the other, then leave you to go about your business.
FWIW, there is no drainage commission.

All unincorporated areas of Price County except for the non-shoreland areas located in the Towns of Kennan, Catawba, Georgetown, Ogema, Hill, and Worcester are governed by county zoning regulations. Please contact your Town Chairman for zoning information in these townships.

Shoreland Ordinance
The Price County Shoreland Ordinance governs all property located within 1,000 feet of a lake, river, or flowage and within 300 feet of a creek or stream. In addition, all 17 of the Townships have adopted the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance. All sanitary permits must be applied for through the Price County Zoning Department.

Please check with the Price County Zoning Office to see if permits are required for your project

Yep, all counties in WI have a planning and zoning department.
The OP lives in Taylor County, just south of Price County.

Yep, all counties in WI have a planning and zoning department.
The OP lives in Taylor County, just south of Price County.

Yes, and he said the property would be in Price County. I would assume the zoning would be for where the land is and not where he lives.

If you dig a pond on your own land and it does not cause any damage to other property owners and you pay your taxes, the government has no business being involved. I have seen where the government took property because it was in the flood plan, tell everyone else not to build on the flood plan and than built a park with restrooms on that site, that has flooded twice.
Before long the government is going to tell us what we can and can't eat.

Yes, my mistake...

I'm touring tomorrow, I'll get a better chance to look at the layout of things, make some phone calls Monday!

How does a person go about knowing whether a pond they dig will actually have-and hold-water?

soil type(s), topographic location..

You dig and observe test holes for a year or so.

that place was in tough shape...gotta love realtors ..old 80 acrer farm, google earth showed me about 30 in the back was woods, well..it is now cut off thin enough that I could shoot the whole way across, couple junk cars scattered around and a few hundred tires.. I'm not totally convinced to not buy it, but I might keep looking

Realtors are a special breed.

You got that right.

I will confess to having to do wetland mitigation in Wisconsin. The county agriculture guy said it was prior converted wetland to agriculture land so I could add dirt. The Dept. of Natural Resources guy said they trump the ag guys, local warden went past, saw my dozer on it and called it in. He was decent enough about it, said he would not get the Army Corp involved even though it was within 500 yards of a drainage ditch that he said would be called navigable. He told me pull half the dirt out and pile it in a berm on what was the highest part of the site. I sloped it to the lowest part, all I wanted was a level spot to park equipment, I live in the adjacent subdivision that went in when I was in high school. Yes I am a home boy, live across the street from where I grew up, bought the 30 from farmer I worked for as a kid, it is agriculture land but in the city limits.

A lot of ponds this year seem lower than ever. Some may dry up.

Trader Vic, I had 34 years with NRCS most as an Engineering design tech. Which equates to meeting landowners and the entire gamut that comes with assessing John Q's wants. I did WRP restorations, mitigations, Ponds-Dams, all kinds of wildlife projects along with soil and water practices that involved some type of hydrology evaluation. I went toe to toe with the US ACOE folks, reviewed (critiqued) professional engineer's designs for competency, proposed solutions to water problems, did hundreds of storm runoff calculation for county highway depts and local government agencies when they had no engineer to help, etc.. I did all this while surveying, designing, staking for construction, surveying for completion and certifying quantities for any payments for projects funded by USDA, the NRD (Natural Resource District) and for private wildlife groups. Trained a few SC's, techs, and an engineer or two and 3 DC's in how government, private individuals and business works together while administering Congress's mandates. ALL this above is Moot Point unless you get someone (who has experience) to visit the site and do some Hydrological evaluation whether or not it will meet the desired goal of the LANDOWNER. It can be a contractor, private engineering firm, local or state agency person, or a federal agency person, but I caution anybody doing this to find the right person who is as unbiased as possible with what can and cannot be done to the site Hydrologically. I've seen to many dry holes or destroyed projects due to not enough or too much water on a person's site (along with a few threatened frivolous lawsuits). The permits, regulations, political requirements can be discussed along the way but its The Water availability (science) that makes or breaks the persons plans...... My take .................................. the mike

a friends neighbor built a pond and then had to fill it in in Kenosha county not far from Bong this was mid 90s i can't imagine they got any easier on people

you absolutely need to check with the township and DNR

the township found out he was digging a pond , no problem double the permit cost for the fine and permit and he paid it

then the DNR found out about it , he was withing 200 yards of a "navigable water way" and his spill over was going to that navigable water way

mind you that creek was so full of fallen trees you couldn't even walk it with out getting out and going around some things. it doesn't not matter that no person could navigate it , if water from it reaches a navigable water way it is one.

at the same time another fiends dad was building one just off KR just north of Bong they took the permits it was over an acre and were 400+ yards from any creek and sent their spill away from the creek to the ditch which of course ended up in that creek.

I was found to be in violation of wetland rules. The county ag guy said it was prior converted wetland so I could do what I wanted to, wetland guy from DNR said they had authority over it, not ag guy. Ultimately, I had to restore the site, have my own dozer so it just took me time. DNR guy said the wetland was within 500 feet of navigable water, drainage ditch, and the corp of engineers could take authority over the site, but that he would let them know it was being handled. He was an OK guy, told me I had invasive reed canary grass, loosestrife, and narrow leaf cattail, so nothing important, but I had filled wetland, and needed to make him happy with how it looked. Just neede a place to park equipment and I got that.

Below is a link to the DNR requirements or needs. Note the 500 foot distance from navigable water or wetlands. From my experience if you are further from those sites then acres may not or usually don't apply. The Price County office or any county office that like the FSA and or ASCS or park and plan department should have soil type, typo maps, and if the land is or is not a farmed wetland. As stated above I would start at the town or county level and work up if needed.

Bryce

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Waterways/construction/ponds.html

It’s amazing how much difference there is between states, here no one really cares as long as you don’t back up water onto someone else, and the FSA office only cares about tiling wetlands not if your flooding it.

nice to see this old thread brought up...I skipped that deal, and found a nice parcel with a class 2 trout stream on it last spring....it takes a lot of time to find what you are really looking for in land, If you are looking....don't settle for something that is only 1/2 of what you want...just keep stockpiling cash until one pops up, then get ready to spend more than everyone else

You sir, have the knowledge, training, engineering and hands on experience to assist about any landowner with whatever he/she wants or needs to do. I wish we were closer as I'd certainly like to share a cup of coffee and conversation with you.
Best regards, Vic

I’m glad you found what you wanted, it sounds like a pretty good setup.

Good to see this discussion. I work for a local government as a design engineer. We do lots of culvert replacements, utility creek/river crossings, etc etc

Everyone that mentioned the USACE is dead on the money. You will not build anything within 500 feet of navigable water without them having their say. Navigable water is defined as whatever they say it is that particular day.

Not to mention, you also have the state environmental/land quality divisions to obtain permits from. Ours is NCDENR/NCDEQ.

These hoops are the reason I haven't built my dream duck impoundment yet. I have the opportunity to buy a 40 acre corn field on a river bottom for a great price. Of course it is all floodplain and the only thing its good for is growing corn. It would set up perfectly for a waterfowl impoundment that could be planted and flooded each year. With it being directly beside the river it would never fly with the USACE.

I looked at my natural water hole today.. dry as a bone