Isle Royale wolf reintroduction

This seems like a costly plan. Couldn't they find hunters willing to travel to the island to moose hunt?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/431148002
They can take wolves from Wi if they want. We have plenty.

Wait! I thought the NPS was bent on letting "nature take its course?"

Apparently they don't mind messing with the natural plan of things, unless it conflicts with how THEY believe Nature ought to behave!

Pete

I thought some wolves crossed the ice a few years ago and at the time they expected the large game population to crash.

Who is "THEY"! Apparently "THEY" were wrong, AGAIN!

Idk... DNR or the University.

Why don’t the feds just have a limited quota and hunting season for moose? Would that not generate some money instead of spending it? KISS!!

I wrote a speech in college about predator control. Isle Royal wolves we're one of my examples why predator population control is needed

How did how paper address predator control on the island?

I ask because from my limited knowledge the reason wolves are nearly gone (estimated 1 remaining) is because of inbreeding.

And that circle of inbreeding will continue. Even with a reintroduction of new wolves. It’s an island. unless the lake freezes regularly, and they move back and forth to the mainland. It’s will be no different.

I'd like to read Gulo's input on this

I thought the very same thing reading this...... Gulo !

Ping, Gulo !

My question is this. The mainland of Minnesotas north has no real population of moose left. Wolves, disease, ticks, brainworm, cause being whatever. Why spend money to move wolves to the island to slaughter moose instead of moving some of the overpopulation back to the " mainland" of Minnesota? Hellooooo?
Pete is absolutely right above.

Osky

Maybe the Park Service is finding that tourist business is dropping because there are no habituated wolves to photograph.........much like Denali and the greenies always whining about declining wolf populations.

Well heck. They always find trained wolves for movies and documentaries, bring a couple in, have them howl on command, viewing greenies can have an orgasm, and everyone goes home happy! Particularly the moose!

Osky

Good plan !

A planned hunt would give hunter a chance to thin. Plus the great meat.

Set the season when its not Mid-January. But maybe November 1st. Weather permitting.

Have a drawing at $100 for a ticket. The ferry boats would love it.

White, Sharon, and others.

I've not kept up recently with the Isle Royale situation, although a lot of Dave Mech's earlier work (several decades ago) was real good wolf/moose interaction work, done on Isle Royale.

In my opinion, it doesn't take a metric boatload of wolves (or any other vertebrate species, for that matter) as founder populations to increase the genetic diversity and reduce the incidence of inbreeding, with resultant bottlenecks, birth deformities, and reduced vigor of the population. Geneticists and other biologist-types have for years relied on mathematical models and come up with astounding numbers that are "critical" to ensure genetic diversity. On the other hand, there are documented realities from a variety of species that have done well over many generations with a founder population of two. (Long as one's a male and one's a female). I'm not advocating reintroduction of wolves on Isle Royale. I seem to remember not too long ago that the National Park Service was advocating letting it "naturally" repopulate (or not) and see what happens (as Pete mentioned above).

In a Park situation, especially one that's "insular" (isolated from other populations), kick-starting the wolf population will probably result in rapid increases in the wolf population, the result being a decline in prey (moose) populations. Without management, the pendulum will again swing in favor of wolves, and the vicious cycle will undoubtedly repeat itself over the next few decades. Predator/Prey populations have historically never been in "balance" over the long-term. It is a roller-coaster of selective highs-and-lows. These wild cycles can be moderated, to the long-term benefit of both species, with reasonable management (sportsmen harvest). Obviously, that isn't going to happen in a National Park.

My two-cents worth...

Jack

So in 15 years they'll be trying to save the moose population, maybe.

In my opinion,If they want it so called natural without human hunters (which is not natural),then they should leave it alone.Let the wolves re-populate when the climatic conditions are right again,and in the meantime let the moose overbrowse,that,even in the absence of wolves, will eventually result in a decline of the moose to the point that the habitat will recover,and the cycle will repeat in the boom and bust of non management.
If they want a long term maximum sustainable ecosystem with wolves and moose,then management on an ongoing basis(like allowing regulated hunting and trapping on an annual basis) would work well.However,it may not be worth the effort in that place.

Isle Royale was the epitome of prey predation without interference showing the world how nature works without game management and that's what happened Yellowstone is another example why the F&W doesn't use this to the sportman"s advantage is the real problem species that have sustainable populations elsewhere have been introduced all over the US and called endangered limiting access and user ability to manage This is my personal opinion

I wrote that speech 30 years ago, so the wolves there pretty much died off?

Has anyone been to the Isle? Not me, I don't know a whole lot about it. Do they have ferries? Probly be cheaper to ferry hunters to the Isle to help control that moose population. Wonder if that option was considered?

From what I read, yes. The inbreeding has screwed up the genetics enough that they were strong enough to last.


I agree with Boco, let the wolves die off and eventually they may or may not come back just like initially. The the moose over browse then die from starvation.

We wildlife managers (hunters/trappers) can use this to point to why we're essential to an ecosystem.

I think you are on to something with that line of thinking. Good point.

Never been but boy would I love to.

Me too, Tweed.

a ferry runs from Copper Harbor in the Northern Upper Peninsula to the island Tactical20 from what I gather the wolves first eliminated the beaver without the marshes and ponds the moose population dropped then the wolves hard to find good current information any would be appreciated

I for one agree with Boco and Gulo.. Let it ride it's coarse and make it an example of why we do what we do!! Without balance all life suffers!

article in the Detroit Free Press March,2016 pretty much describes whats happening sorry no link

They done plenty of research on wolf/moose relationship at Isle Royale.
Seems to me that they should introduce a different predator and study it's relationship with moose.
Such as black bears or hunters (humans).
If the moose are starving to death it wouldn't be much a hunt.

I think you are on to something with that line of thinking. Good point. [/quote
I didn't say that, it was quote from another guy]

As usual Jack, I have more questions.

If they want to introduce 30 wolves, how many distinct genetic groups do you think they would want to choose from ? What would the gender make up be ? More females or an equal number of both ? Any guesses about wolf on wolf mortality during introduction ? Would they hold strange wolves together ..in pairs maybe...prior to release ?

How many generations would it take until the population is back to the same inbred condition it is currently ? IF the former population was susceptible to disease due to inbreeding, would there be any organisms remaining in old scats that the new wolves could contract ?

If the island is 15 miles off the mainland, is that too far to repopulate the island by wolves swimming ? I'm thinking about a comparison with POW island. Isn't that how those wolves got/get there ? Did you find unique physical characteristics in POW wolves ? Surely, they must have been inbred to a certain degree ?? Unusual development or illness ?


If the wolves are inbred because of isolation, wouldn't that also apply to the moose ? Do we see the same types of impact on ungulates that we might see in canids over generations ?

The island moose like many other isolates are smaller.

wonder where the 2 million is coming from and if that's their estimate double that actually I wonder how much is spent annually on introducing species that few people want and are plentiful elsewhere

Smaller than what Tweed ?? What species are they ? ??

I believe the wolves initially got there by crossing winter ice, no swimming involved.

Osky

Thank you, Jack .... your insight is always appreciated .

Makes total sense ...

Your experience is valued so much, which is discernment and knowledge.

And indeed, inspires more questions !

Thank you for sharing with us all

See you on the surface .....

Than a mainland moose. According to research, they have shrunk by about 16% since the study started.

I hiked it after high school graduation before college. 1995

Very cool place. They were having issues with wolf inbreeding then. It was chuck full of moose and fox at that time.

It's been an ongoing experiment / "biosphere" since that became a thing. They've tried to impart as little as possible human effect.

They finally had an ice bridge a few years ago and I heard a few wolves went over, but they either went back or died as they couldn't find them when they did their aerial surveys. They remaining couple om the island have been inbred to the point of self sterilization and growth issues. The researchers know each wolf on the island.

Hunts would never happen on Isle Royale. I wasn't surprised at the decision to import wolves. They want the "experiment" to continue. This is just part of it. Now they can track the bloodlines of which wolves from where succeed and which don't, how they interact and breed, etc.

Our tax dollars get wasted at such a sickening rate anyway, might as well have it go to something cool we can follow, not the effects of cocaine on Jamaican grouse while listening to Spanish music.

then THEY will relocate moose so nature can take its course free from human interference

Thanks !

Some information about the Isle Royale wolves. There have been a number of scientific studies done on the wolves of Isle Royale during the past 60 years. Among those that I find most enlightening is one that resulted in a publication entitled "Genetic Rescue in Isle Royale Wolves: Genetic Analysis and the Collapse of the Population". The study presents evidence that following the formation of a wolf pack on Isle Royale in about 1950, there have been several times that additional wolves migrated to the island during colder winters when ice bridges formed between the island and the mainland to the north and west(Ontario and Minnesota mainlands). Field observations and a few photographs support this conclusion and following the immigration of a male wolf from Ontario in 1997, there is strong genetic evidence as well.

Current thinking seems to be that these introductions were necessary for survival of the Isle Royale population of wolves. During about the past 15 years or so, there have been few or no ice bridges formed that would permit migration between the island and the mainland and this period has also been when warmer temperature has both impeded summer foraging of moose and allowed substantial increases in ticks that feed on moose. As a result of limited or no wolf reproduction since about 2012, the wolf population has all but disappeared. Moose populations are also much smaller than at times in the past. I doubt that the current wolves(if any) that remain on the island are a viable population and suspect that if ice bridges between the island and the mainland do not reform in the near future, there will be soon be no wolves left on the island.

I will add a conclusion that summarizes my thoughts about the Isle Royale wolf-moose story over the past 60 years. I think that much of the romance of the story was that these two species had both invaded and colonized the island and were living in some degree of harmony and balance. The bulk of media reporting and a surprising amount of the science was based on that starting point. With the more recent evidence of wolf migration both directions between the island and the mainland, much of that romance falls away and the current state of near collapse of the wolf population is much more consistent with that which would be expected based on both trophic ecology and population genetics.