We do need new gun control laws!

I get sick every time I turn on the TV and hear people going on about this. They say it's time to do something! We need to pass laws to solve this problem! Well, in my opinion, we absolutely do. We need to pass the "common sense" gun control legislation we should have had all along. We need laws that prevent the creation of sitting duck zones like schools and churches and any place where people are gathered in groups in enclosed settings at appointed times and stripped of their second amendment rights to effectively defend themselves and others. If every law abiding and capable adult with a concealed carry permit was allowed to do so in these places, then these incidents would be limited in duration and casualties and a lot more of these kids would be alive today. No need to lock down schools like fortresses with one or two armed guards trying to protect hundreds of students. The same teachers and faculty who throw their bodies in front of these kids and die along with them like sheep could actually save them! In a school that doesn't force its teachers to leave their weapons in their cars outside, what do you think would have happened during the multiple intervals while this nutcase was reloading???

Granted, plenty of balls were dropped in the process of identifying this kid. He should have been stopped before he launched this attack - but that's not always the case. Often enough, someone's first identifiable offense is the deadly one. You cannot effective legislate an end to craziness, much less the onset of craziness before it even happens! And fortunately, we live in a country where we cannot be locked up before ever doing something wrong. But we should have the right to defend ourselves and that right should not be stripped because we enter a school or church or movie theater. This is insane. Every one of these mass shootings would have been so significantly reduced that we would be talking about the crazy guy who killed a few students and how we could have better identified and stopped him. A teacher surely would have and could have at numerous points during all of these sickening events.

All crazy mass shooters have certain things in common. They are capable and aware enough to plan, to drive, to load, to shoot - and to choose sitting duck zones where they can mow down helpless unarmed sheep. In the case of that orange haired guy who killed piles of people in the theater in Colorado, they found out he passed two other theaters on his way to the one that was a "no weapon zone" so he could kill all of those unarmed people. To clarify, I am not saying that my way will end craziness, but in every mass shooting case, it would reduce the slaughter.

No matter how we attempt to figure out who is crazy before they strike, we should not stop decent people from defending themselves and others. I cannot listen to these people go on about making the sitting duck zones worse. Our second amendment needs to be strengthened and backed up to defend law abiding citizens and those we care about. I'm sick of being a sitting duck every time I walk past one of those stupid no gun signs.

There. I'm done for now. Thanks for listening.

Well said Patrice.

Mike

At least the potus is not flying the victims families around on air force 1 to use them for an agenda....

Imagine what would be going on if Trump had not stepped up to the plate?

Rush Limbaugh, someone who i don't follow but saw him on the news, said...

The next school shooter is out there already planning.
He is known to people around him that he could do it.
He already owns the gun he'll use.

How do we stop him?
Do we need a new law to do so?

makes ya think.

Patrice tell all your friends and phone your reps WIS SB169 would fix many of the shortcomings in our Wisconsin concealed carry law.

it would allow licensed carry on school grounds and make carry inside of school buildings up to the discretion of each school board.

We need to stop making felons of parents and grandparents who drove onto school grounds to pick up their kids while carrying .

we need to leave decisions up to local school boards.

SB169 has already passed committee and had it's public hearing , it is ready to be voted on and sent to the governors desk but it has not been scheduled for a vote , the governor and assembly leadership does not want to schedule it for a vote.

I keep harping on this. But it has some relevance...

Want to reduce the number of guns available to people who shouldn't have them? Call your elected officials and demand that local, state, and federal officials do their jobs and pass on the needed info to the NCIC database...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoda...checks/7959529/

We already have the system in place to prevent a lot of this. But it isn't being utilized.

Mike

That is a strong statement Patrice. And a very correct one also. You pretty much said what needs to be done. No law will stop the evil hearts of man. The ones who are hollering the loudest now across this country do so because they don't have a clue about solving this problem. So they latch on to a POPULAR movement, though doomed to failure it's all they have to support. Sadly there are those in power who probably are the very root of the problem we have now with our society. They are blinded and cannot see the damage being done with their support of evil. I pray God changes the hearts of those who rebel against Him. Again..... a great comment Patrice!

Until these people start actually introducing an amendment to repeal the second amendment, its all just political maneuvering.

Patrice I don't think your way of thinking Is going work.
How many Sunday church goers do you think would carry If It was legal. How many theater goers would carry If It were legal? Are we going to legalize kids In schools to carry?

I'm betting that most individuals that legally carry would be of no help In a shoot out. There's a big difference in shooting at targets then being shot at.

These shooters are nuts and I don't think a armed public Is going to stop this Insanity.

I don't have an answer. But In My opinion doing away with Gun Free zones Isn't going to work.

Beav, it doesn't matter how many people carry. It immediately stops an area from being a sitting duck zone chosen by a nutcase to kill people. Out of all potential law abiding citizens who may be present and carrying at the time of an incident like that, I believe that at least one person could have found a good shot at the guy while he was reloading. At least one. Look at the teachers who cower in a corner and die with their students. At least one adult could have stopped most of the murders. I would have no problem punching a hole in someone under those circumstances and many others. I think you are underestimating your grasp on the reality of watching a slaughter unfold and being able to stop it by hitting a single target.

We already have an armed public, Beav. Anywhere our already armed public is free to carry, these things do not happen. They only happen in the remaining isolated and advertised spots where we exclude our armed public.

Now anti gun people have some surviving students to protest for more gun laws

Dead Wrong Beav. It's one Giant step in the right direction. Gun free zones are killing fields !!!

That second paragraph, patrice says it all! THAT is the problem. Most of these chicken littles are crazy in a way, but don't want to die doing their dirty deed. Hence they look for soft targets. Gary.....pay attention!

The beav said it right! "There is a big difference in shooting at targets and being shot at" let one of them nuts have someone in a school shooting back at them and se what happens!!

Wrong. When teachers who love their students throw themselves in the way of gunfire and get punched full of holes and die to defend those students, it's not much of a stretch to believe that one of them would find a good shot to save everyone's lives. Not at all. A shooter like that is one unanswered target killing on and on and on over time. That presents plenty of reasonable opportunities.

Beav , after TX and really even after the seik temple shooting in Milwaukee a few years ago , and other church shootings , you might be amazed the number of people who carry to church , heck the pastor would be in some places.

the church I was attending the pastor is a very nice guy but he was a total pacifist any way the church trustees decided not to post we knew how he felt about it but we just made sure not to tell him we were carrying , we knew who was even if he had no clue.

I have Muslim co-workers and they took it very serious after the shooting at the Seik temple in Millwakee , they got carry licenses , took training , and discussed plans.


I know I have seen the conversation here on trapperman , in many places the pastor also carries , there have been a few churches where a shooter tried and was taken out by a church members as I recall they had an organized group of church goers who carried radios and handled the security.


I wouldn't bet against the individuals licensed to carry , people with virtually no training seem to statistically do fairly well defending themselves the range is generally very short.

would I like to see more people more proficient sure, I would love to see people practiced and proficient.

In my opinion doing away with GFZ isn't going to hurt and it sure isn't helping.

Patrice I think you read my post wrong.I was agreeing with you. My wife works at an elementary school and I geruntee you she would shoot back

I apologize, Arkansas. I misunderstood you. Thanks for letting me know. Now let's all gang up on the Beav.

And they forget that our 2nd amendment protects their 1st amendment. I carry.... I don't pay attention to no carry signs, except for federal and state buildings. My wife doesn't even know when I'm carrying and when I'm not. I will not be a victim. I work in a school and do not take my firearm to school but I do have a contingence plan at school. My coworker is retired Buffalo PD. We have a plan and only we know.

Nope your all wrong.
Nut cases don't worry about If It's a gun free zone or not. They go where there are lots of targets. You pull the fire alarm kids are heading for the exits. They are dead meat and by the time the few teachers that have guns react It's way to late. And how many kids may get caught In the cross fire? I can se that teacher opening fire with her glock trying to take out the bad guy.

Most of us have never been shot at or have had to shoot back. So we don't know what we would do In a situation. You can all jump up on your soap box and beat your chest(be careful Patrice) and tell us what you would do. But until It happens you don't know how you will react. And then you take some soccer mom with a gun who knows what will happen.

The Beav, not sure about where you live but you can almost guarantee that here every service has at least one person armed.
I have friends who put on trainings for church staff and security. The church I used to attend years ago has staff and pastors and security with ccw. They even have a designated response team. The staff and security teams do constant training.
The church I attend now has always had professional armed security and has numerous people in each service with their ccw.
I know several churches I've never attended where at least the pastor has a ccw even while in the pulpit.

Patrice I agree get rid of gun free zones

we agree on that , so lets loose the useless signs that only keep the good people from carrying.

Or laws.

Adam I think the loons in Madison Wis are getting to him , if he starts talking about using spray bottles to discourage the wild turkeys from pecking at you when you go to check the mail we will know it is time for an intervention.

Beav I get it a bunch of civies are never going to be up to the Marine standard but if you don't put people in charge of their own life and their own safety then you just get a bunch of whiners begging for a Nanny state that is worse than the problem they had.

I agree 100% with what Patrice said would stop the problem. If we could eliminate gun free zones the mass shootings would be all but stopped. However, this common sense approach will never come to pass because the left is more focused on gutting the 2nd amendment than on saving lives. They don't want to stop mass shootings so long as the mass shootings help them attack the 2nd amendment. What the left really wants is to take our guns and ensure we are dependent upon the government, specifically on a socialist government. The answer is to take the solution to the local level where DC politicians can't interfere with your ability to protect yourself and your children. Demand action of your school boards and local politicians to put protections in place even if they are not the ideal solution Patrice described.

If all the employees at the school open carried handguns do you think there would still be an attempt to kill a bunch of students there?

Ya but no one has ever had to pull the trigger on another person.
I'll be honest about It I don't know how I would react If It happened. I have never had to kill anyone have you? I would hope that I would be up to the task at hand.

we need trained armed personnel at these schools and if teachers are willing to be that person I'm all for it ,the custodian the lunch lady , I'm all for it . i would like those people to have training ,and i don't mean seal team 6 training but some type of firearms training ! and look if there was some veterans who wanted to volunteer to be at the school and be armed I'm all for it ! Beave you are wrong these shooters are cowards who know they are going into unarmed areas to kill innocent people !

I'm not as nice as you are, Beav, but I think that if you found yourself in that situation, the reality of what was unfolding in front of you would clear up any problems you have with killing someone - and if it didn't, you would still have the option to do nothing.

I don't know how I would react either Beav... But I would like to at least be given the chance to step up if the time ever came. I MIGHT freeze up, I MIGHT fail. Or I MIGHT pull it off. But if I obey the law and remain unarmed I can GUARANTEE that I will be able to do nothing to stop a killer.

Mike

Aggressive action wins fights....move forward and do not stop.

no I have never had to kill another human , but I have made up my mind that when a person stops acting human they are just another animal , and I have shot lots of animals and never felt an ounce of guilt for it.

so it is not I who has decided it is them through their actions act like an animal die like an animal.

maybe I change my mind at some point but until I am there and force into it , that's the plan.

I got the shooting part down . maybe I am not as good when being shot at but that is yet to be determined.

If I am going to die any way what have I got to loose.

I have drawn a gun and used it twice to assure my safety and those with me in situations that occurred in the darkness of nite. There was never any shots fired, but until I knew there was not a threat to me or my partners I was ready to react and protect our lives. It is a moment you have to train for over and over in your mind and with physical actions you rehearse. Be prepared to engage if engaged on. Whether fired on or just drawn on if you are going to be in that situation you have to have in the back of your mind you may be only a moment away from being shot at. If you are involved with an active shooter, it's a little easier to make a quick decision. Chances are you or those around you will die. It's a kill or be killed moment. That would be easy for me. I have constantly ran that scenario over and over in my mind while I am practicing with my firearms. But I do agree that many who have gotten a CCW or bought a firearm for home protection would probably have a hard time because they never practice, run these kind of situations over and over in their mind, or just think because they have a firearm they are safe. An active shooter may be very proficient in his handling of a firearm or you may be out gunned (A rifle with a site zeroed in will almost always out gun a pistol at a distance). But I'll take my chances as long as I am armed and put in a situation of danger much as those who have perished in a shooting.

I'm not advocating restricting our right to carry. I just don't think It's going to be that much of a deterrent.

I'd take that soccer mom on my side any day of the week when compared to an unarmed sheep waiting in line to die.

The TX church shooter was shot by someone at the church.
Thank God I haven't had to pull the trigger on someone. I've had to draw a few times. Honestly I wouldn't like killing someone but if I HAD TO I would. Not sure how I would react but I would at least try something. When I'm picking up my kids at school I often find myself thinking what would I do, especially since I am unarmed during those few minutes. I even go through scenarios in my mind in various places like the bank (legal if not posted) hospital restaurant etc...

Don't be so sure I know or knew a lot of soccer moms.

If you are going to engage an active shooter one of the most important things to be aware of is the background....if the background is not clear you may be able to just shoot low...legs/pelvis..or you may need to move to gain a better angle that will present a clear background.

The next main issue is you must realize that your not there to take prisoners...eliminate the threat thru extreme violence of action, keep moving forward and be aware of the background/mitigate a crowded background, be aware that you can be easily mistaken for the bad guy...and that other good guys may be doing the same thing you are doing.

Its really a lot to do if you have no training at all.

In arkansas there is a new law I'm not sure if it is in effect yet or not but it will allow anyone 21 years of age and older who atends school or staff to carry a concealed weapon on school campus.but they must go to training classes to do so that are free!

Not an active shooter scenario... But several years back I had a situation at my house and had to pull my revolver... The other guy thought better and left. He later apologized and things ended on a good note.

Looking back that was one of the scariest moments in my life... But not until after it was over and I had calmed down... I was shaky and felt like I was going to wretch my guts up.

While it was happening I remember being amped up yet remarkably calm about what I had to do. I believe I would have shot the guy had things went differently.

I hope I'm never in a position like that again.

Mike

No, your wrong. We may not know what we will get, but we know what we've already got.


Osky

There are a few military veterans that work at the same school my wife works at. Bus drivers maintenance workers grounds keeper ect. Allow those fine people to carry guns to defend themselves or the children if there ever was some crazy person trying to shoot up the school heaven forbid that ever happens but I think things would go very badly for the bad guy quick fast and in a hurry!!

Adam The Texas good guy with a gun was a neighbor a former NRA instructor who had to unlock his safe and grab an AR and mags then ran across the street barefoot and up to the door of the church he fired striking the gun who then fired back at him , he saw it coming or the gunman missed or he was able to step to the side and use the door frame for cover I don't know , the gunman left out the side of the church went to his vehicle and the good guy with a gun flagged down a complete stranger who immediately said yes and they pursued the gunman till he crashed into a parked car and died.

now Maybe it's just TX but to run bare foot to a church and end a rampage then the first guy you flag down driving by a person you have never met before welcomes you into his truck while your holding an rifle to chase down the gunman . well I would like to think there are a lot more of use that could be so self less.

Arming a bunch of minimally trained school staff is a recipe for disaster in an active shooter situation with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby.

Well. Bla, bla, bla. It's the idiots that do all this. We can't stop idiots unless we are armed to protect our selves and family

Will

So decide what level of training is appropriate and lets start a fund to train them , I bet a case of beer If I wrote an NRA grant to train teachers who would be carrying at school they would approve it in a heart beat.
probably send senior instructors to help.

how about if we train them to pass the local police department annual firearms qualification test.


BY the way how does it really get worse than one armed person loose in a school of unarmed victims , even if that teacher locks the door puts all the kids in the far corner and takes cover behind the desk waiting for the door to be kicked in and nothing happens it is no worse off.

X2

The recipe for disaster is the active shooter in an enclosed area with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby and no armed school staff. And who says they are minimally trained?

Thank you! Well worded. Thanks for taking the time to express that ideology that I've been trying to say, but can't because it's hard to be rational when dealing with irrationals.

What's your solution then? Let's hear it.

Mike

Patrice,
You know, i had the same idea as you at first after this school shooting, I then really thought about it a while and realized, it won't work.

I don't know about everyone else's high school days, but I can think of 1 teacher I had that would of been a good candidate for a teacher /law enforcement person. 70 % of them I highly doubt would of wanted to, or could handle the responsibility and the other 30 some % would of scared me to death that they would of used the gun on some kid that got under their skin in the classroom.
and I mean that with the most sincerity!!

Purely from a cost standpoint.
I doubt any teacher is going to take on this additional responsibility for free. The amount of additional salary you'd have to pay a teacher to also be essentially a LEO would not make sense. Better off just to just hire a cop or 3 and let teachers be teachers.

I know plenty of teachers who carry and are demanding the right to carry while at work in their schools. They have never asked for compensation. They can and do handle the responsibility everywhere else they go in their lives. These are responsible citizens who carry everywhere else and have to leave their firearms in their vehicles or at home when they go to work in sitting duck zones. I am not concerned about the statistical probability of one nutcase teacher who wants to murder a student. I would put that person in the same category as the original active shooter we are talking about. Thank goodness if the rest of the capable and responsible faculty are carrying if that ever happens.

I don't think anyone is advocating forcing teachers to carry. Just saying allow concealed carry holders to carry on campus if they wish to. Things are different in different areas of the country, but down here tons of people carry. I'm sure Beav even saw plenty of people walking around down here with a gun on their hip... it's not uncommon to see in restaurants, stores, etc.

We have a law in congress now that would allow enhanced concealed carry holders to carry in schools and colleges. It's probably going to pass. That enhanced concealed carry requires passing tests including shooting tests. It wouldn't be like a bunch of soccer mom's run out and buy guns, strap them on and go to school.. it's about allowing the people that already carry, to do so in school.

No, I've never had to shoot anyone and hope I never do have to, but I would like to be allowed to have my right to protect myself and others, no matter where I am.

good points by all owning and carrying a gun doesn't equate to being proficient in one's use my 2 cents is this most people wont except we live in a violent culture and they're hoping a new law will turn back time even after all the shootings most schools ,churches etc don't have a procedure for safety outside of everyone flooding towards the exits not even aware where the emergency is or what it is As pointed out in the media several students were running toward the shooter and as also pointed out frequently there are others who know or have an idea whats being planned and it must be investigated Small towns especially don't want to think I can happen here . My wife worked at the courthouse in town pop 3000 a person who was going thru a rough custody battle told a social worker he was going to shoot the courthouse up when he showed upfor court the next day she called the sheriffs dept. one of the deputy's said he knew the person and whould talk to them he reported the person told him he didn't mean it so he was allowed in when the county workers found this out he was in the courthouse for 2 houirs already and the sheriff told them if anything was going to happen it already would have they found out because the sheriff told the 2 custodians to watch the exits and report any suspicious activity this thinking is whats got to stop

I'd take that soccer mom on my side any day of the week when compared to an unarmed sheep waiting in line to die. [/quote]

Don't be so sure I know or knew a lot of soccer moms. [/quote]
I help train soccer mom's basic pistol and I can tell you with no reservations that most would be more deadly then the average male.dont underestimate a well trained individual in a bad situation.

Patrice, I like yo way o thinkin. Now to really save lots of lives, the school kid protesters could be told how they could help. No driving priviledge until you're 25!!! Bet they would tell me how I'm wanting to keep them down! I don't think the current issue has a perfect answer, but the mindset of people has been infected past the point of no return. I go armed, and I will shoot back first!

Some studies so that many millennials don't even want to own a car in these days of calling an Uber or Lyft so that isn't much of a threat to most non rural communities.

Patrice; your post is one of, if not the most intelligent well thought out and common sense solution to a complex problem I have read on this forum to date. Bravo! To the Beav, if you believe that amateurs are ineffectual in stopping an armed threat, I suggest you pick up a copy of American Hunter, or The American Rifleman. You know the official journals of the NRA?
EVERY ISSUE HAS A HALF DOZEN CURRENT EXAMPLES OF LAW ABIDING CITIZENS SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDING
THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES WITH A GUN. Some of them are grandmothers in a wheelchair!
A lot of them have had no "training" at all.
"An armed society is a polite society". I refuse to be a victim. The member that compared a mass murderer to an animal is spot on. Act like a rabid dog, die like a rabid dog.
Again, WELL SAID PATRICE!

Well said. "Gun Free Zones" are dangerous places.
Consider that nearly all "active shooters" turn their firearms on themselves when they are confronted with armed force, and we realize that while armed teachers and administrators might not completely prevent these school shootings, they would dramatically reduce their duration and leathality.

Your right Patrice and i think most everyone on this forum will agree but unfortunately not everyone has the mentality of a person that you would find on a forum like this. We have to be realistic of the way things have changed. With that said arming teachers is a great idea but that would only work in the smaller rural communities where you have people that think similarly to the way the people on this forum do.

Liberals are taking over larger communities and have already taken over the big cities. Most liberals wouldn’t even entertain the idea of carrying a gun, let alone stand up and use one. Outside of rural America most teachers are liberals. Liberal teachers start pushing there agendas in grade school, then high school, by the time these kids go to college they better be full libtards or at least pretend to be one. I’m not sure if any of you ever listen to Ben Shapiro, he is a very outspoken conservative and political commentator. He attended UCLA and he said whenever he did his assignments he would just pretend to be Bernie Sanders, he aced college.

I think a more realistic approach to school shootings at this time would be implementing armed guards in schools and these other gun free zones. At least these libtards would get used to seeing guns and rifles on a regular basis. I’m all for letting the teachers carry guns in school if they desire to also. Maybe some of these liberals would see the decrease in violence over time and get off of gun control.

IDPA has matches all over the country...actually its pretty enjoyable and can be a good training tool if you do not get hung up on how fast you can finish a stage. You learn how to use cover, address multiple targets while moving and function under the stress of a group of people watching you. If you stand still in the open while shooting the range safety officer will be screaming in your ear to move.... ...if you use cover improperly someone will explain why your having points deducted.

Sure beats static range shooting...

Patrice, you are 100% right, thanks for saying it!

I think school districts want gun-free zones to avoid potential liability. If they allow guns, and someone gets shot, deliberately or by accident, they might get sued.

And then there is the issue of mixing immature college students, who regularly demonstrate that they can't handle alcohol, with deadly weapons.

If I ran a school, I might let adults carry there, might not. In Alaska there is no permit requirement, so theoretically we could have some untrained bozo blazing away at some real or perceived threat. I'd let the teachers carry for sure.

Jim

There is more than one instance of an armed individual stopping a potential massacre at a school.

Surprise, surprise it gets very little media attention... There's no body count and it doesn't fit the agenda.

Mike

Good video.

I'm sick to death of these people who think another law is going to make one bit of difference in the next shooting. Like a guy who is going to shoot up a school, McDonalds or whatever cares one bit about ANY law. News flash: They could care less about your laws!

The best defense is a good offense.

Every school in the nation should be mandated to have a security plan in place for the NEXT school shooting... and it must be a viable plan (with opposing force) to protect the kids.

I recommend everyone go to an IDPA match. It is a lot of fun and you learn a lot. The range I’m a member of has matches every Wednesday and the first and third Saturday of every month. I go as often as I can (usually twice a month). $5 to shoot, it’s five stages, bring 100 rounds.

My feelings are that unless there is armed security and metal detectors at every entrance I should be allowed to carry a handgun on my person in that building.

Liberals are after one thing: Control. They take over every institution they can, and bend it to their political purpose. Boy Scouts, public schools, colleges, media, all have been taken over by liberals and are now liberal mouthpieces. Where has the GOP been all that time? Asleep at the wheel, worried about their pensions. The Tea Party is a conservative grass roots movement made of normal Americans determined to take back their country from career politicians and failed policies. They recognize that both political parties are corrupt.

one of the clubs I belong to runs twice a month action pistol , a blend of IDPA and USPSA shooting ,with no categories or prizes , just bragging rights on your time you can use it as training for competition or for life what you choose to do with it is up to you.

the guarentee is that every stage will be different and most will have you shooting at least some of the targets off balance , weak hand , moving around a bunch , limited visibility , if we can safely make it work on our indoor range we will do it.

we have moving targets , reactive targets

one we call the bear trap you shoot a popper when it falls it releases a shoot target to come up under spring pressure like one jaw of a trap and when it is fully up it releases the no-shoot target the other jaw of the trap to come up and cover the shoot target . the first time you see it you wonder how your going to get 2 shots into the shoot target , after you have done it a dozen times , you start picking up another target close by after shooting the popper then come back and get the shoot target in time before transitioning to another taget or mofving to another box


the peak-a-boo is still the hardest , a shoot target is positioned directly behind a no shoot , you hit a popper that pulls the prop out from under the leg of the target it pops out from behind the no-shoot just long enough to get a round in it then pops back when the weight rolls off

I started out with an OWB holster and an now running it more often from concealment with one of my IWB holsters , spare mags in my off hand pocket , it slows down the draw and reload some. it is a lot more realistic to run it carrying exactly how I do daily.

One thing for sure is once a shooter gets into a school now days he has little to worry about as far as anyone defending himself or being a threat to him. One security guard at an entrance means little, I would think he can be taken out easily because he's really not expecting an attack. If every school had some armed teachers it sure wouldn't hurt, might even stop an attempt if a shooter thought there were armed teachers inside. I can think of many teachers in my school that would have been glad to carry, and with training would have defended well. If my taxes went up a few dollars to train teachers that wanted to carry, I'd gladly donate to that and I don't have any kids in school anymore. Like somebody said, if a teacher is willing to stand in front of bullets to defend kids, that teacher sure as heck would do what it takes to take out a shooter with his/her own weapon.

"IDPA has matches all over the country"

Ok, what is this?

International defensive pistol association
It is a run and gun pistol match of sorts
Really really fun! And good practice.

International defensive pistol association

they sanction matches , the rules are based in defensive style pistol shooting , you must wear a cover garment , draw from concealment , retain magazines on a reload and shoot targets in defensive order (basically as you see them or nearest to farthest.

they have set stages "scenarios" that must be based on a defensive story line.
http://www.idpa.com/about/introduction

USPSA United states pistol shooting association , is more competitive speed shooting the targets are similar but they can basically invent any crazy stage they want it is more about speed than practical defensive skills.

both will bring you much higher in your shooting game

as will club level action pistol shooting. you run against a clock that counts each shot , you have to move from box to box taking targets in an order , you will have to shoot leaning right , left , weak hand ,strong hand kneeling , standing, crouching , through a hole , from behind cover , at targets that are shoot and no shoot and partially obscured

this is a USPSA 2 gun cometition with the Army marksmanship unit comeditor running it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jFCb-kyKOY

IDPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvCim9Rhdao

Thanks for the info, and you too wwc. This sounds kind of interesting. The only handgun I shoot is a revolver... are they allowed in these deals? And are these groups receptive to a girl with a revolver that never shot anywhere besides in the backyard before? LOL

Revolver if fine but you will need some speed loaders for it.

I believe a revolver is allowed ,many clubs welcome New comers male or female and many have women's only shooting activities also.

they even have a BUG gun class you may be able to run without speed loaders depending on what your revolver is

BUG = back up gun - like a J-frame S&W

the bug gun is like a short course fewer targets to engage

once you try that your likely to get hooked and want to shoot more

or it may be time for a auto loader there are a huge number of really good guns out there under 500 dollars , the world has never seen so many good carry guns the manufactures are listening and building stock guns better than ever and for very reasonable prices.


our club is informal all safety rules are the same but the stages can be anything we invent , it is one of the few things we open to non members

stages tend to run right around 20 rounds for us we try and keep it under 25 rounds for the stage 1 and 2 then we have a stage 3 that is the combined elements of stage 1 and 2 that can go 40 rounds.
we tell people to bring 100 rounds , usually that is enough for some misses also
strong side holster no cross draw or shoulder because you muzzle sweep every one and no one likes that .

we joke that we spend 2-3 hours to shoot for less than 2 minutes if we do it all right but it takes time to reset and score , pick up brass , there is plenty of chatting and getting to see other peoples gear.

If I have a choice to Arm a few teachers in my kids school or keep it a Gun Free Zone, I would vote for Armed..
If a shooting was to happen and a teacher was to return fire, I believe to would either send the assailant fleeing or distract them..
Having the ability and doing something in that situation would be better than doing nothing..
I'm not an expert, but it doesn't seem like any of us are or we would have solved this problem.

Dewey

Speed loaders only work with double action revolvers, most know I'm sure some may not. Just saying.

I never knew what to expect but that didnt stop Uncle Sam from putting a gun in my hands and the hands of the brothers on either side of me, they didnt know either. We were well trained but had no experience. We gained experience fast. That never would have happened if we were not armed. I'll take the unknown of an armed person on my side any day over knowing how being unarmed in a gun fight usually turns out. Combat is nothing but varibles. It is your job to stack them in your favor. Being unarmed is setting them against you from the get go. Just because you carry a gun or draw it doesnt mean you have to shoot, guns go back on safe and in the holster just as easy as you can draw them.

No matter how many LEO's we have, they wont always be there when bad things happen.

No matter what laws we pass, they wont always stop the bad guys before he acts.

No matter how prepared you are, you can still fail. Being armed,trained,even experienced, you can still fail. You cant stop every bad deed or bad actor. Armed law abiding citizens will not be able to stop every shooting. Nothing short of God's grace will do that. Accept it. It doesnt mean that an armed person isnt a good start.

Some people will fail, some innocent people may be hurt or killed. That can happen in a gun fight. Accept it because the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Waiting for a bad guy to run out of ammo, stop his action, or have mercy is not very good odds in a gun fight. You cant choose where, when or how a POS will act out but you can be prepared to defend yourself and at least have the option to fight back. I'll take that. I'm not very good at cowering and waiting to be shot.

It may not stop a thing ever but I'll take the unknown but armed over the known out come of being unarmed.

I said it on another trappers forum. www.IowaTrappersTalk.com....

The biggest way we control these situations is by having men manning up to be the fathers they need to be. Too many single moms raising boys that don't have a father to lead them cause their fathers are dead beats. Also too many fathers in the home that don't do anything with their sons to teach them...only helping theirselves instead. Sad. This is why i believe many of these situations have existed. Teens will gravitate to other forms of "getting attention" if they are not given the attention they really need and want to have.

I say they post more signs outside schools and businesses stating that firearms are not allowed on the property. That seems to be working well. Sign, Sign, Everywhere a Sign.

The problem I have with guards and police in schools is that the anti's always use that as part of a lockdown plan to continue to strip law abiding citizens of their second amendment rights. They want outside people to come into the sitting duck zone and stand guard (usually at the expense of the taxpayers), instead of giving rights back to the rest of the school faculty.

The beauty of concealed carry for all capable law abiding citizens is that no one ever knows who or how many people are carrying. It could be three or it could be twenty five. It has the same preventative effect, it restores the power to the people and it costs the taxpayers nothing. In the case of an active shooter situation, duration would be severely limited. We would definitely not hear about all of the breaks in the action while the shooter is reloading.

Thanks for all of your comments, folks. I feel better just hearing from people like you.

Now I am going outside to burn up some rounds and sharpen the skills.

Shoot some for me Patrice!

I've been wanting to shoot too. But it has been raining pretty steady for the last 2 or 3 days. I'm not complaining though, we needed the rain.

I'm sure some of my fellow Okies out west would like to see 2 or 3 days of rain... Lots of fires out there.

Mike

ILL has the toughest gun laws in the country. Ask Chicago how there working

A coach was shot blocking students from being shot probably would have had a better chance if he had a gun.

Can you only imagine how different the headlines would have been? If he had enough time to shield students he would have had enough time to access the situation and draw his weapon. Unless he was no.17 this story has a better ending. Guns don't kill students, Students kill students.

Lets not forget the same democrats and Republican gun grabbers would still be going nuts even if the coach pulled a gun and stopped the guy at one student shot. This isn't about safety.

I think you might be surprised

25% of those reporting to be democrats in this poll had a gun in the house, 48% of independents did too...

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

I agree with armed guards at schools. As long as schools are a gun-free zone, they remain a target for these cowards. The other thing is notoriety. Make the media stop naming the coward and stop with the pictures. Look at all the copycats that popped up since the Florida shooting. If the shooter don't make the news, what's the point? Some of these idiots made videos before they shot up the schools.

The media will never stop with naming the perp and showing his photo. So, they should do it right then. Follow this person after his incarceration. Interview him, let him tell how much fun prison is, how he's treated by the other inmates. Somebody young, like most of these morons are, are often beaten, raped, etc.

The legal liability issue of gun free zones is an interesting one to me.

If I'm damaged as a result of a shooting because I was stripped of the ability to defend myself in a sitting duck zone, I certainly believe I should be able to prevail in a lawsuit against the parties who stripped me of my rights. If some cases were to go this way, the monetary pressure would be in the favor of gun rights.

Now, they make you defenseless and then want to suck tax money out of your wallet to lock down schools like fortresses and pay armed guards to defend you. The simplest and cheapest solution was there all along.

you know who hurts us the most , the I'm a hunter bla bla bla but no one needs military weapons why because they think it can't happen with the same guns they hunt deer with but it has.

I have some cousins that are teachers , they want something but seriously are against the idea of them being armed , they absolutely do not understand guns or force they think it takes thousands of hours of training , that they would never have time for.

you can just sense their FEAR of a gun , like it is going to unlock it's self and murder you while you sleep all on it's own , it is so irrational. otherwise smart capable logical people just rendered mush at the idea that they or anyone who isn't a cop or security guard could be trusted with a gun.

the must only see the uniform , I have know a few people that were armed security, one now works at a grocery store because it pays better and has better hours.
Seriously you would trust your kids with a security guard with 36 hours training , who makes less than the clerk at the grocery store more than yourself or your colleagues. those are trust issues.

it would have to be people who are willing to help defend themselves and others , you won't make any one defend them selves if they aren't wanting to ! but i do believe there are teachers who are capable to defend themselves as well as others they have to have the opportunity to be able to do this , my wife is in her last semester of school before becoming a teacher but she will not be the one carrying a gun ! i pray that these things will come to an end . there needs to be a solution ,I'm sure there is but not everyone will be happy about it !

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, fleeing from evil will never stop it...........