A federal judge dismissed all charges against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, his two sons and another man on Monday after accusing prosecutors of willfully withholding evidence from Bundy’s lawyers. U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro cited "flagrant prosecutorial misconduct" in her decision to dismiss all charges against the Nevada rancher and three others.
"The court finds that the universal sense of justice has been violated," Navarro said.
Are the charges from the sons takeover of the Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, still pending or are those thrown out too ? I'm assuming this court case involved the initial charges brought on by the standoff at their ranch near Mesquite, Nv?
Will he get away with the theft of over 1 million dollars from not paying his grazing fees? Is his family still eligible for federal loans at lower interest rates that most of us would never be offered? I believe at least his son has taken advantage of these handouts from the government that they hate so much.
How about now they charge all the government officials that way over stepped their powers and try them...until these Hitler wannabees are held to account it will happen again and again....
The leaches were to tight to even pay a reduced rate for grazing rights.
The big arguement against the Gov't is they want to allow mining or whatever on their ground........ Guess what? Those outfits WILL pay the fee to do so unlike the vermin that's there now.
Are the charges from the sons takeover of the Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, still pending or are those thrown out too ? I'm assuming this court case involved the initial charges brought on by the standoff at their ranch near Mesquite, Nv?
Raising arms in effort to take over the property of the United States of America should have ended in immediate surrender or they should have been wiped out.
As between the federal government and the Bundys, I was hoping the Bundys won. And they did. I don't know that most folks appreciate what the federal judge did. She dismissed the government's case. That's huge. It was the closest she could say to the government did something illegal . . . not just bad, not just improper, not something procedurally incorrect. She basically said you did something illegal and the only way I can set things straight -- understanding the state has poured a ton of resources and time into an investigation, arrest and trial -- is to dismiss the government's case. That's as close to a knock out blow as the judge can deliver to the prosecution in a criminal case as it gets. The only more she could do is report the lawyers to the bar for discipline.
Gerkle-o-schmerkle do you have a photo of Janet Reno set as the desktop on your computer?
Except....in those instances did they take over federal land?
No Tweed,
In Those Instances, The Victims Were United States Citizens Attacked By Armed Agents Of The Federal Government On Their Own Land.
14 Year Old Boys Shot In The Back While Running Away, and Mothers Head Shot In Their Doorway While Holding Their Infant Daughter.
Also Innocent Women And Children C.S Gassed And Then Burned To Death while Trapped Inside A Wooden Structure While Armed Federal Agents Waited Outside To Gun Them Down.
Those Were BATF & Janet Reno's Crowning Moments While Attorney General Under Slick Willy, The Chicken Plucker.
Kill the treasonous bas@#$ds. Sell their land to pay their bills. They and their 400 or so armed militia supporters should have been wiped out. Ruby Ridge and David Koresh compound were nothing like what these fool did.
The millionaire leeches need a good convincing beat down
gerkil-osmerkel seems to be an authority on the situation and the history......all the way from pa no less, bet he read it on some extreme liberal website. wish we could wipe out liberalism, 3/4's of these situations wouldn't even exist. RR
Except....in those instances didnt they take over federal land?
No Tweed,
In Those Instances, The Victims Were United States Citizens Attacked By Armed Agents Of The Federal Government On Their Own Land.
14 Year Old Boys Shot In The Back While Running Away, and Mothers Head Shot In Their Doorway While Holding Their Infant Daughter.
Also Innocent Women And Children C.S Gassed And Then Burned To Death while Trapped Inside A Wooden Structure While Armed Federal Agents Waited Outside To Gun Them Down.
Those Were BATF & Janet Reno's Crowning Moments While Attorney General Under Slick Willy, The Chicken Plucker.
w
Sorry....my auto-correct changed it wrong.
Correct...those people we're in their own property minding their own business.
The Bundy's weren't. They took over a federal building because the felt they were wrong, they didn't like the law....sounds like a McVeigh and Nickels mindset.
gerkil-osmerkel seems to be an authority on the situation and the history......all the way from pa no less, bet he read it on some extreme liberal website. wish we could wipe out liberalism, 3/4's of these situations wouldn't even exist. RR
Ain't chew from west by-god virginny there, ridge? ya'll need ta do some map learnin' down there yonder.
The reason the Bundy supporters took over Federal property was to get media exposure. They knew the Bundys were being treated illegally as the judge just showed. The media is a powerful weapon for good or evil, more deadly than any gun.
I have no sympathy for ranchers who think they own public land; I know of cases where ranchers have tried to fence off land and block roads that access public land. Just because they have a grazing lease doesn't mean they own the land.
On the other hand, I don't like government officials running rough-shod over citizens, and using crooked tactics to prosecute them. The Feds should have just shared the info they had with the Bundy defense team instead of trying to be sneaky about it; they may have been successful of getting a conviction if they had.
I have no sympathy for ranchers who think they own public land; I know of cases where ranchers have tried to fence off land and block roads that access public land. Just because they have a grazing lease doesn't mean they own the land.
On the other hand, I don't like government officials running rough-shod over citizens, and using crooked tactics to prosecute them. The Feds should have just shared the info they had with the Bundy defense team instead of trying to be sneaky about it; they may have been successful of getting a conviction if they had.
Agreed.
And as someone else pointed out... If this was a slam-dunk case for the government, why hide evidence from the defense?
I find it hard to believe we have some that don't think that if someone owes you money he doesn't have to pay. The Bundy clan for 20 years refused to pay the landlord (US Government) (which is you and me) for the cattle grazing rights that many other ranchers have to pay.
If I were to buy some traps from someone would I not be labeled a thief if I did not pay for them? The same goes for someone that agrees to a price to graze his cattle on land and then refuses to pay the landlord.
Bundy got a mistrial because the idiots prosecuting the case withheld information from the defense. This does not in any way say that Bundy and his clan are innocent of the crimes he was charged with. It means the prosecution screwed up and could not prove their case.
He owes over 1 million dollars. I guess that could be a reason for looking for a way to get out from under HIS DEBT. No good, lousy, thief. Just another of the takers who take from all of us.
He owes over 1 million dollars. I guess that could be a reason for looking for a way to get out from under HIS DEBT. No good, lousy, thief. Just another of the takers who take from all of us.
Dont let facts cloud your judgement, he was willing to pay but refused to pay the agency that was selling him out and whos only goal was to try to put him out of business. Read the history of what went on, all of the history, then form an educated opinion. And im not saying he was 100% in the right but where do you make your stand when those that are supposed to be working with and for you re trying to eliminate you and your lively hood. Follow the money and who profited from the reduction and buyouts of these ranchers. Hint he has one good eye answers to pinky and was a senator.
He owes over 1 million dollars. I guess that could be a reason for looking for a way to get out from under HIS DEBT. No good, lousy, thief. Just another of the takers who take from all of us.
Dont let facts cloud your judgement, he was willing to pay but refused to pay the agency that was selling him out and whos only goal was to try to put him out of business. Read the history of what went on, all of the history, then form an educated opinion. And im not saying he was 100% in the right but where do you make your stand when those that are supposed to be working with and for you re trying to eliminate you and your lively hood. Follow the money and who profited from the reduction and buyouts of these ranchers. Hint he has one good eye answers to pinky and was a senator.
X2 some of you on here are making judgement based on what the liberal media wants you to think. Not on all the facts. As far as the mining company paying I believe it was uranium they were going to mine and it had to do with the company that Obama and Clinton let be bought by the Russians. Surprise surprise.. not saying Bundys are all in the right but they did stand up for what is right. It was big government trying to push the little guy out of the way and the little guy stood up to the government. That's enough to have my support. A lot more to the story than most people know.
I have no sympathy for ranchers who think they own public land; I know of cases where ranchers have tried to fence off land and block roads that access public land. Just because they have a grazing lease doesn't mean they own the land.
On the other hand, I don't like government officials running rough-shod over citizens, and using crooked tactics to prosecute them. The Feds should have just shared the info they had with the Bundy defense team instead of trying to be sneaky about it; they may have been successful of getting a conviction if they had.
Wow that's crazy courtroom theater White! One would think the judge would have a copy of the detainer from Nevada to show the attorney and the man just aquitted, that he is in fact not a free man. Rather than just take the government's word for it. Outrageous.
Those of you pointing a finger at the Bundys and calling them thieves remember what the guys that were breaking the laws at the Boston tea party did for you
What happen to that lawyer is unbelievable and I'm not a proud American knowing that goes on and no consequences. If the judge disagreed with the lawyer than she can put him in contempt and have him detained, but she did not do that, and for her to not put the us marshals in contempt and under arrest for their actions is unacceptable after the ignored her request to stand back. Once again it show the government people can do what ever they want illegal or unethical and get away with it more often than not. What a disgrace in our legal system
I have no sympathy for ranchers who think they own public land; I know of cases where ranchers have tried to fence off land and block roads that access public land. Just because they have a grazing lease doesn't mean they own the land.
On the other hand, I don't like government officials running rough-shod over citizens, and using crooked tactics to prosecute them. The Feds should have just shared the info they had with the Bundy defense team instead of trying to be sneaky about it; they may have been successful of getting a conviction if they had.
Same here and well said.
Still think there is a lot more to the story than will ever be known but for the federal gov to come down like they did was overkill and excessive looking to prove a point. Might as well have been brown shirts.
Flip side is rules are rules and they should have paid the fees as agreed to, if there is more to that so be it, but maybe take the cattle and sell them at auction? Or something? Has to be a better way than almost causing a bloodbath.
Those of you pointing a finger at the Bundys and calling them thieves remember what the guys that were breaking the laws at the Boston tea party did for you
True and a lot can be said that those "militia" in the standoff kinda reinforced the fact that Americans can and will fight, sure the government paid attention.
I have no sympathy for government employees who think they own public land. Glad they got there hat handed to them. Now will they look into any legal wrong doing on the government employees part and will we hold them to the same standards? How much money was spent trying to get a conviction?
I have no sympathy for government employees who think they own public land. Glad they got there hat handed to them. Now will they look into any legal wrong doing on the government employees part and will we hold them to the same standards? How much money was spent trying to get a conviction?
X2, Hot diggity, Hooray for the Bundy's, Hooray for Justice!!!!
I have no sympathy for government employees who think they own public land. Glad they got there hat handed to them. Now will they look into any legal wrong doing on the government employees part and will we hold them to the same standards? How much money was spent trying to get a conviction?
Actually the lead blm ranger ( Love is his name look him up) is under indictments by the government unfortunately the prosecutor probably wont.
Too much corruption for the people that need to be put in prison to go there. They will through some poor common person or two that wasn't smart enough to see what was going on under the buss to make look like justice was served. Been happening forever.
He owes over 1 million dollars. I guess that could be a reason for looking for a way to get out from under HIS DEBT. No good, lousy, thief. Just another of the takers who take from all of us.
Dont let facts cloud your judgement, he was willing to pay but refused to pay the agency that was selling him out and whos only goal was to try to put him out of business. Read the history of what went on, all of the history, then form an educated opinion. And im not saying he was 100% in the right but where do you make your stand when those that are supposed to be working with and for you re trying to eliminate you and your lively hood. Follow the money and who profited from the reduction and buyouts of these ranchers. Hint he has one good eye answers to pinky and was a senator.
He owes over 1 million dollars. I guess that could be a reason for looking for a way to get out from under HIS DEBT. No good, lousy, thief. Just another of the takers who take from all of us.
Dont let facts cloud your judgement, he was willing to pay but refused to pay the agency that was selling him out and whos only goal was to try to put him out of business. Read the history of what went on, all of the history, then form an educated opinion. And im not saying he was 100% in the right but where do you make your stand when those that are supposed to be working with and for you re trying to eliminate you and your lively hood. Follow the money and who profited from the reduction and buyouts of these ranchers. Hint he has one good eye answers to pinky and was a senator.
Will he get away with the theft of over 1 million dollars from not paying his grazing fees? Is his family still eligible for federal loans at lower interest rates that most of us would never be offered? I believe at least his son has taken advantage of these handouts from the government that they hate so much.
Who had the land before the government took it?? I paid $110,000 in property taxes last year, $30,000 in SS taxes for my employees, $10,000 in environmental consultations fees, $6,000 in permits, & spent over $20,000 complying with the EPA! All the while trying to raise my 4 boys and provide jobs for my employees & their families, so that can achieve the American DREAM. Remember 80% of the farm bill is food stamps, & school lunches not welfare for us lazy farmers and ranchers
Are the charges from the sons takeover of the Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, still pending or are those thrown out too ? I'm assuming this court case involved the initial charges brought on by the standoff at their ranch near Mesquite, Nv?
They were aquitted of all charges in both cases....but the feds murdered one of them.
What happen to that lawyer is unbelievable and I'm not a proud American knowing that goes on and no consequences. If the judge disagreed with the lawyer than she can put him in contempt and have him detained, but she did not do that, and for her to not put the us marshals in contempt and under arrest for their actions is unacceptable after the ignored her request to stand back. Once again it show the government people can do what ever they want illegal or unethical and get away with it more often than not. What a disgrace in our legal system
Exactly....those federal agents need slapped down.
Are the charges from the sons takeover of the Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, still pending or are those thrown out too ? I'm assuming this court case involved the initial charges brought on by the standoff at their ranch near Mesquite, Nv?
They were aquitted of all charges in both cases....but the feds murdered one of them.
Yes they did Marty, and got away with it. Shame on them!
And yes I did get $22,000 in crop payments for all that. Plus the first three of my fields I took my boys to on opening day of pheasant season had already been hunted by people WHO probably pay 5% of that. It’s really great being a bottom feeder. If you don’t own the land you hunt and trap remember it’s a privilege not a right. Not trying to be a butt,, but it strikes a nerve with me
Will he get away with the theft of over 1 million dollars from not paying his grazing fees? Is his family still eligible for federal loans at lower interest rates that most of us would never be offered? I believe at least his son has taken advantage of these handouts from the government that they hate so much.
1 million dollars haha the aum is 2.38 per head or pair on 200 head for 20 years.....you do the math. you need to stop watching the fake news channel..
The reason the Bundy supporters took over Federal property was to get media exposure. They knew the Bundys were being treated illegally as the judge just showed. The media is a powerful weapon for good or evil, more deadly than any gun.
Keith
no they were there to support the hammonds that are now sitting in jail for second time for the same crime....which I might add the feds were doing the same thing...setting backburns to protect there ground....bottom line the hammonds are sitting in jail because they wounldnt sell there ground to the feds to enlarge the refuge ...the same one the bundys went to.....most people on this thread have no clue what this is all about...and when they finally wake up and see whats going on it will be way to late.
I find it hard to believe we have some that don't think that if someone owes you money he doesn't have to pay. The Bundy clan for 20 years refused to pay the landlord (US Government) (which is you and me) for the cattle grazing rights that many other ranchers have to pay.
If I were to buy some traps from someone would I not be labeled a thief if I did not pay for them? The same goes for someone that agrees to a price to graze his cattle on land and then refuses to pay the landlord.
Bundy got a mistrial because the idiots prosecuting the case withheld information from the defense. This does not in any way say that Bundy and his clan are innocent of the crimes he was charged with. It means the prosecution screwed up and could not prove their case.
A thief is a thief is a thief.
..lol if you bought 12 traps from the blm and they only gave you 3..would you pay for 12? and your are exactly right a thief is a thief but is not the hammonds or lavoy finicum rip..or the bundys and all the others countless ranchers that were forced out of business!
I find it hard to believe we have some that don't think that if someone owes you money he doesn't have to pay. The Bundy clan for 20 years refused to pay the landlord (US Government) (which is you and me) for the cattle grazing rights that many other ranchers have to pay.
If I were to buy some traps from someone would I not be labeled a thief if I did not pay for them? The same goes for someone that agrees to a price to graze his cattle on land and then refuses to pay the landlord.
Bundy got a mistrial because the idiots prosecuting the case withheld information from the defense. This does not in any way say that Bundy and his clan are innocent of the crimes he was charged with. It means the prosecution screwed up and could not prove their case.
A thief is a thief is a thief.
..lol if you bought 12 traps from the blm and they only gave you 3..would you pay for 12? and your are exactly right a thief is a thief but is not the hammonds or lavoy finicum rip..or the bundys and all the others countless ranchers that were forced out of business!
gov is the biggest organized crime syndicate there is!
Would be hilarious if Bundy sued the Feds and used his earnings on that to pay his back grazing fees. Played right he probably could and still have enough money to go to Sizzler.
Kill the treasonous bas@#$ds. Sell their land to pay their bills. They and their 400 or so armed militia supporters should have been wiped out. Ruby Ridge and David Koresh compound were nothing like what these fool did.
The millionaire leeches need a good convincing beat down
Hey, why not try it yourself? You want them dead? Go for it. And when you are done there, head to Cali and go after the Gov. for making the entire state a sanctuary state! In violation of federal law! Talk about treason....
Kill the treasonous bas@#$ds. Sell their land to pay their bills. They and their 400 or so armed militia supporters should have been wiped out. Ruby Ridge and David Koresh compound were nothing like what these fool did.
The millionaire leeches need a good convincing beat down
Hey, why not try it yourself? You want them dead? Go for it. And when you are done there, head to Cali and go after the Gov. for making the entire state a sanctuary state! In violation of federal law! Talk about treason....
Will he get away with the theft of over 1 million dollars from not paying his grazing fees? Is his family still eligible for federal loans at lower interest rates that most of us would never be offered? I believe at least his son has taken advantage of these handouts from the government that they hate so much.
Who had the land before the government took it?? I paid $110,000 in property taxes last year, $30,000 in SS taxes for my employees, $10,000 in environmental consultations fees, $6,000 in permits, & spent over $20,000 complying with the EPA! All the while trying to raise my 4 boys and provide jobs for my employees & their families, so that can achieve the American DREAM. Remember 80% of the farm bill is food stamps, & school lunches not welfare for us lazy farmers and ranchers
Cost of doing business. You don't like it, quit whining and find another occupation.
The alphabet agencies and the prison system punished these people as much as possible...in the end the legal system found them innocent.
The same could happen to anyone.....its about keeping people under their thumb.
The legal system did not find them innocent. The case was not determined on the merits. Rather, the Judge sanctioned the government based on prosecutorial misconduct, and dismissed the charges without making findings of fact about the case.
Some folks just get to a place/time when they have had enough....if you have had enough of some government agency pushing you around and actually just say no to them they will do their best to crush you....happens all the time.
They are not concerned with 'the right thing' at all, just their authority and your obedience.
The alphabet agencies and the prison system punished these people as much as possible...in the end the legal system found them innocent.
The same could happen to anyone.....its about keeping people under their thumb
The legal system did not find them innocent. The case was not determined on the merits. Rather, the Judge sanctioned the government based on prosecutorial misconduct, and dismissed the charges without making findings of fact about the case. [/quote]lol..............lol...........lol.......the legal system never found them guilty either yet they spent 2 years jail time....they were acquitted in 2 differant states by 2 different judges! coincidence?....I don't think so...if the prosecution had any case with any merits they would not have to resort to miss conduct or illegal activity!
lol..............lol...........lol.......the legal system never found them guilty either yet they spent 2 years jail time....they were acquitted in 2 differant states by 2 different judges! coincidence?....I don't think so...if the prosecution had any case with any merits they would not have to resort to miss conduct or illegal activity!
You can't figure out how to properly use the quote function, don't know the meaning of the word "acquit"....but alright, OK, we should just take your on this...you got everything else figured out?
You can't figure out how to properly use the quote function, don't know the meaning of the word "acquit"....but alright, OK, we should just take your on this...you got everything else figured out? [/quote]....lol..........yeah just what I thought...if you haven't got answer or real grasp on whats really going just resort to personal attacks works everytime...brilliant
You can't figure out how to properly use the quote function, don't know the meaning of the word "acquit"....but alright, OK, we should just take your on this...you got everything else figured out?
.pass thru...lol..........yeah just what I thought...if you haven't got answer or real grasp on whats really going on just resort to personal attacks works everytime...brilliant [/quote]
haha finn don't worry about it, your fine....if you look at several other guys post above mine, you will see the quote box wasn't working properly for others as well.
Will he get away with the theft of over 1 million dollars from not paying his grazing fees? Is his family still eligible for federal loans at lower interest rates that most of us would never be offered? I believe at least his son has taken advantage of these handouts from the government that they hate so much.
Who had the land before the government took it?? I paid $110,000 in property taxes last year, $30,000 in SS taxes for my employees, $10,000 in environmental consultations fees, $6,000 in permits, & spent over $20,000 complying with the EPA! All the while trying to raise my 4 boys and provide jobs for my employees & their families, so that can achieve the American DREAM. Remember 80% of the farm bill is food stamps, & school lunches not welfare for us lazy farmers and ranchers
Well, how very philanthropic of you. But you do know that you are free to go out and find a job that will allow you to pay much less in taxes and fees, don't you? Now, you are probably much better off as things are now. And you likely pay less per dollar that goes into your family financial circulation now. I know lots of guys who claim to operate at, or near, a loss every year but they live like multi-millionaires. They claim poverty, employee only Mexicans, yet they and all their kids live in McMansions and drive very expensive cars and pickups. Another thing these guys have in common is the enthusiasm they show when claiming they live such a hard life and how they do Americans such a huge favor.
You can't figure out how to properly use the quote function, don't know the meaning of the word "acquit"....but alright, OK, we should just take your ??? on this...you got everything else figured out?
Miss a word there? Just checking since you seem to have "everything else figured out"
The alphabet agencies and the prison system punished these people as much as possible...in the end the legal system found them innocent.
The same could happen to anyone.....its about keeping people under their thumb
The legal system did not find them innocent. The case was not determined on the merits. Rather, the Judge sanctioned the government based on prosecutorial misconduct, and dismissed the charges without making findings of fact about the case.
lol..............lol...........lol.......the legal system never found them guilty either yet they spent 2 years jail time....they were acquitted in 2 differant states by 2 different judges! coincidence?....I don't think so...if the prosecution had any case with any merits they would not have to resort to miss conduct or illegal activity! [/quote]
I have a question on this. I agree that they were not found innocent....or guilty for that matter, the judge ended it before trial.
That said, my question is............... Doesn't the prosecuter have to introduce evedence to the court, that hasn't been turned over to the defense in order for a trial to be dismissed? Be it either to the grand-jury or once the trial starts?
(i'm guessing they used evedence to hold Bundys' that wasn't turned over?)
Well ya, they can retry the case. It isn't any skin off their balls. Not costing the attorneys anything out of their pocketbook besides the taxes we all pay. In my world the prosecutor should met the tazer tickle monster in the final.moments of the proceedings, not the defense attorney.
Trying is what it is. They attempted. "Tried", but they're crooked scoundrel scumbags. There is an opportunity to retry, with no hanging tree in the future of the prosecutor.
To explain what i'm thinking Finn, been involved in some trials here.
Cops have a hearing, we call it, in front of a judge. They present their evedence and then the charges are determined. After this, it can go to trial.
If the cops fail to get the charges they are after, they can wait for more evedence and later have another hearing in front of the judge. I'm guessing from the posts here that this is where the Judge stepped in? Or was it at trial?
Grand jurys' work the same i believe, but am not sure.
Trying is what it is. They attempted. "Tried", but they're crooked scoundrel scumbags. There is an opportunity to retry, with no hanging tree in the future of the prosecutor.
From this reply, i'll take it you have no freak'n idea.
Hippie, it did go to trial. The defense showed that the prosecution withheld evidence (I don't know any details of how) and the judge declared a mistrial to review it. The trial was to be reconvened on the 8th of January, if I remember correctly. After reviewing the evidence, however, the judge dismissed it with prejudice, citing the unconstitutional and illegal actions of the prosecution. Due to the manner of dismissal the charges cannot be refilled.
How did what he said make a difference? Prosecutorial misconduct will continue unless they fell the scratchety itch of a noose around their neck, too. It would cut down on frivolous charges.
How did what he said make a difference? Prosecutorial misconduct will continue unless they fell the scratchety itch of a noose around their neck, too. It would cut down on frivolous charges.
Mistrial means all charges brought before the court are void, where at a hearing some charges can still stand.
Only have first hand experience and not versed in law.
I was a witness where the cops were after a murder charge, at a hearing. Judge didn't allow that charge so cops went for lower charge and got it, there-by keeping the defendent in jail until trial.
If at trail this came out, as it did, they have to go back to square one.
Its a disgrace that they walked should have had the book thrown at them I listened to his whole getting out of jail press meeting and he is nuts he talked about how he did nothing wrong because the Federal Public BML land is only the public land of the people of Clark County because the Feds can't own land and have to no jurisdiction in the state of Nevada and that means he owns no fees? I mean come on the guy has no clue how the constitution works and then said that the armed stand-off was a peaceful protest ha! that's a good one if that's the case I should be able to head into the city like Chicago or New York with a rife strapped to me to a protest and not worry about getting locked up or shot right? Not sure what makes me madder that fact the feds messed the case up or that Bundy said when he gets home he is putting the cattle back out on the BLM land?
Well, how very philanthropic of you. But you do know that you are free to go out and find a job that will allow you to pay much less in taxes and fees, don't you? Now, you are probably much better off as things are now. And you likely pay less per dollar that goes into your family financial circulation now. I know lots of guys who claim to operate at, or near, a loss every year but they live like multi-millionaires. They claim poverty, employee only Mexicans, yet they and all their kids live in McMansions and drive very expensive cars and pickups. Another thing these guys have in common is the enthusiasm they show when claiming they live such a hard life and how they do Americans such a huge favor. [/quote]
Bashing farmers is a tradition for some of these cowardly idiots, always will be. Own nothing, have nothing, depend on others for food and trapping ground, lowlifes.
Who's bashing farmers. It cracks me up that some who take full advantage of programs that are set up to benefit them by the government they claim to despise, whine and complain that there are other rules they must follow just like everyone else. I bought a small farm a while ago. I lease my fields to a farmer who seems to be doing pretty well, but he doesn't seem to complain as much as a couple others who have ask for me to lease it to them instead. I like the guy I deal with and his dad,they are the third and four generation to work their place and respectable men as far as everything I know about them goes. I got no-beef-with honest farmers.
Just like any of the folks who use the system to their full advantage-if the program is there for them, go for it. But it makes the arguments about others doing the same very weak to an objective observer. Any financially successful businessman pays more than those who make less, just as I pay more than the folks who make less than I do.
Will he get away with the theft of over 1 million dollars from not paying his grazing fees? Is his family still eligible for federal loans at lower interest rates that most of us would never be offered? I believe at least his son has taken advantage of these handouts from the government that they hate so much.
Who had the land before the government took it?? I paid $110,000 in property taxes last year, $30,000 in SS taxes for my employees, $10,000 in environmental consultations fees, $6,000 in permits, & spent over $20,000 complying with the EPA! All the while trying to raise my 4 boys and provide jobs for my employees & their families, so that can achieve the American DREAM. Remember 80% of the farm bill is food stamps, & school lunches not welfare for us lazy farmers and ranchers
I Do beleave is was the Native Americans then the Spanish, then became Mexico then the US gov after the Mexican-American War
He owes over 1 million dollars. I guess that could be a reason for looking for a way to get out from under HIS DEBT. No good, lousy, thief. Just another of the takers who take from all of us.
Originally Posted By: hippie
Shoulda shot them like the vermin they are when they had the chance.
Nothing but a bunch of inbred, fanatical, scumbag Thieves.
The gov't should have SHOT everyone of his cows that wasn't on his property........
Hoopy is another indoctrinated over educated man who supports employing men to do the killing. Frankly, I'm sick of it. Nothing but a bunch of jello spined hangers on. I hope you've never blown off a celebratory firework on the 4th of july.
Hoopy is another indoctrinated over educated man who supports employing men to do the killing. Frankly, I'm sick of it. Nothing but a bunch of jello spined hangers on. I hope you've never blown off a celebratory firework on the 4th of july.
If he did, it was an anti American display, As the British would say, what a wanker lol.
Hoopy is another indoctrinated over educated man who supports employing men to do the killing. Frankly, I'm sick of it. Nothing but a bunch of jello spined hangers on. I hope you've never blown off a celebratory firework on the 4th of july.
so you support a criminal? someone who is stealing? who isn't paying what they received?
the minute he stops paying, his cows become feral trespassers, IMO... I don't care who shoots them, they would be free game.
it sad how everyone is focusing on what the bundys have got away with no one even mentions the hammonds who are sitting in jail twice for the same crime. the feds where doing the same thing as the hammonds(backburning brush on the own land)...when the real issue is the countless amount of ranchers that have been forced out of business by heavy handed feds and there illegal activities. I don't agree with everything the bundys have done but they the only ones in that area still in bussiness. the feds tried bullying them out of business it was either adopt outlaw tactics to be on the same terms as the feds, or be forced out of bussiness like the other ranchers. so I got to hand it to them for standing up to whats right. the feds gave the bundys no options , comply or with us or will bankrupt you, though the court systems , at tax payers expenise. he called the bluff and good for him.....does anyone realize why he had hundreds supporters show up that day in Nevada, most of them he didn't know? people are tired of being bully and seeing tens of thousands of acres taken away from ALL OF US, not only ranchers. to be turned over to specials interest groups that will deny access to everyone. senator Ried stood to make million off bundy ground by they solar panel deals with the Chinese. the feds tried to use the endangered species act to force bundy cows off the land because of turtles. what a joke! so if your looking for a thief and crook you don't have to look very far. the feds are still giving away thousands of acres to special interest groups and wildlife refuges that do nothing more than take away public ground from all of us. the bundy not paying the grazing fee had very little to do with why the feds want there ground....all the others ranchers that paid there fees and complied are now out of business. if anyone has seen that part of the desert, there is no grass there to graze. lol
"The Bundy's weren't. They took over a federal building because the felt they were wrong, they didn't like the law....sounds like a McVeigh and Nickels mindset"
I wonder if everyone thought the same about all those that were killed at the Alamo ??
"The Bundy's weren't. They took over a federal building because the felt they were wrong, they didn't like the law....sounds like a McVeigh and Nickels mindset"
I wonder if everyone thought the same about all those that were killed at the Alamo ??
Guess it all depends o. Who you are! When you take over goverment property?
"The Bundy's weren't. They took over a federal building because the felt they were wrong, they didn't like the law....sounds like a McVeigh and Nickels mindset"
I wonder if everyone thought the same about all those that were killed at the Alamo ??
....no they took it over because the hammonds were wronged and still being held on trumped up charges the feds charged them with because they would sell their land to enlarged a worthless unoccupied refuge that has no benefit to anyone. just a waste of more tax payers money ...here we go again...hopeless
If the federal government keeps doing what they are doing to this country we may (or at least those of us that will standup for are rights) have to break law and stand up to them. It's funny how people in big business or government can lie cheat steal and break laws and can apologize with some lame excuse and the American people look the other way. But some little guy decides to protest be treated wrong by the government and people think he should be shot.
If the federal government keeps doing what they are doing to this country we may (or at least those of us that will standup for are rights) have to break law and stand up to them. It's funny how people in big business or government can lie cheat steal and break laws and can apologize with some lame excuse and the American people look the other way. But some little guy decides to protest be treated wrong by the government and people think he should be shot.
If the federal government keeps doing what they are doing to this country we may (or at least those of us that will standup for are rights) have to break law and stand up to them. It's funny how people in big business or government can lie cheat steal and break laws and can apologize with some lame excuse and the American people look the other way. But some little guy decides to protest be treated wrong by the government and people think he should be shot.
Gotta remember that there is precedent for the little guy getting shot. Ruby Ridge and Waco. The feds got away with it then, so why not this time?
The feds executed a Koresh follower who tried to get to the compound during the standoff...before they burned the compound to the ground with the people inside.
Maybe we all should let our cattle graze for free on public land. Heck just open it up to any free for all use. There probably wouldn't be any detriment to the land or conflicts between users....lol.
I'm not for total & abusive government control over everything but aren't we still a nation of laws.
If the federal government keeps doing what they are doing to this country we may (or at least those of us that will standup for are rights) have to break law and stand up to them. It's funny how people in big business or government can lie cheat steal and break laws and can apologize with some lame excuse and the American people look the other way. But some little guy decides to protest be treated wrong by the government and people think he should be shot.
........well put sir...after reading some of the posts here, its not hard to see how communism and suppress can survive in the world today.
There is a lot of fringe lunatics that like to run their mouth on the internet. Very few of them have the courage to actually act on it like the Bundy clan. However, hard working folk that pay their share normally take a dim view of anarchists and freeloaders. I will being willing to wager that there is generally an inverse proportion between income tax paid and level of sympathy for the Bundys. That is a far cry from communism.
There is a lot of fringe lunatics that like to run their mouth on the internet. Very few of them have the courage to actually act on it like the Bundy clan. However, hard working folk that pay their share normally take a dim view of anarchists and freeloaders. I will being willing to wager that there is generally an inverse proportion between income tax paid and level of sympathy for the Bundys. That is a far cry from communism.
....speaking of running your mouth.....I will take your wager but first lets see who pays more income tax and property tax? between you and me? an you totally missed my point about communism and suppression of the people.
pass thru.. quit avoiding your ordinal post and see who is the freeloader....lets compare tax returns to see who the freeloader is..... always trying sidetrack the real issues by trying to put words in someone else mouth and personal attacks. there are your words and take on things not mine....soooooooooooooooooooo what about the wager and how much? or are you just running your mouth and not going to stand behind your remarks.
pass thru.. quit avoiding your ordinal post and see who is the freeloader....lets compare tax returns to see who the freeloader is..... always trying sidetrack the real issues by trying to put words in someone else mouth and personal attacks. there are your words and take on things not mine....soooooooooooooooooooo what about the wager and how much? or are you just running your mouth and not going to stand behind your remarks.
Attributing what you have posted to you is not a personal attack. Insightful that you think it is.
I posted: "I will being willing to wager that there is generally an inverse proportion between income tax paid and level of sympathy for the Bundys."
This was not even directed at you and it was definitely not an invitation to share financial information with you. No reasonable person would interpret it as such. I don't care about you, your income, your education level, or how you get your wiggles off. And I certainly will not be sharing any personal information with you. Go grab a newspaper and a dictionary and try to figure something out so next time you won't be the turd that won't flush in a current events discussion.
pass thru.. quit avoiding your ordinal post and see who is the freeloader....lets compare tax returns to see who the freeloader is..... always trying sidetrack the real issues by trying to put words in someone else mouth and personal attacks. there are your words and take on things not mine....soooooooooooooooooooo what about the wager and how much? or are you just running your mouth and not going to stand behind your remarks.
Attributing what you have posted to you is not a personal attack. Insightful that you think it is.
I posted: "I will being willing to wager that there is generally an inverse proportion between income tax paid and level of sympathy for the Bundys."
This was not even directed at you and it was definitely not an invitation to share financial information with you. No reasonable person would interpret it as such. I don't care about you, your income, your education level, or how you get your wiggles off. And I certainly will not be sharing any personal information with you. Go grab a newspaper and a dictionary and try to figure something out so next time you won't be the turd that won't flush in a current events discussion.
.....wow with each post, you take off in a totally different direction. every time you post something, someone gives you a verbal smackdown...whos the turd that wont flush? the bundys haven't paid there grazing fees true, and for good reason. but I would bet they paid more taxes and property taxes in the last 5 years, then you have paid in your whole life.....darn freeloaders anyway. just going by your post, I am just curious to see what your level of sympathy is compared to what you pay lol
what? end up like the bundys?.....didn't the bundys walk? what about all the ranchers that paid there fees and lost there livelihood that are now( forced by out the blm) out of business lol..the hammonds sitting in jail. that's is what I have been posting on! the bundys are the only ones in that area that are still in business so I guess not quite that simple!
I don’t know if any of you bickerers are interested, but here’s a link to some very comprehensive data regarding the dismissal. It includes more links to actual documents, like the reports of BLM whistleblowers. Dismissing the charges had nothing to do with the original charges; it was based on the unbelievably corrupt behavior by the BLM, investigators and prosecution. They (the feds) cornered themselves in so many lies under oath, on record that dismissal/mistrial was pretty much the only option.
Those grazing fees are supposed to be used to maintain fences, water etc. BLM not only didn't maintain water and fences they tore out water lines. They also cut the number of head he could run. By 90%. Not because the pasture was overgrazed but because they wanted him out of business. They couldn't legally take his grazing rights so they refused to do maintaince and cut the number of head. His neighbors all just took it and left.
It wasn't really government interference even though the Feds refused to do anything, It was corruption by Harry Reid and the BLM manager. Reid expected to profit off running the ranchers out of business by crawling into bed with a Chinese solar company.
I don’t know if any of you bickerers are interested, but here’s a link to some very comprehensive data regarding the dismissal. It includes more links to actual documents, like the reports of BLM whistleblowers. Dismissing the charges had nothing to do with the original charges; it was based on the unbelievably corrupt behavior by the BLM, investigators and prosecution. They (the feds) cornered themselves in so many lies under oath, on record that dismissal/mistrial was pretty much the only option.
If i remember this correctly from the last time this was hashed out here...........
The feds declared some fer turtle needed protected and started buying leases back from ranchers in the area. Bundy wouldn't sell and stopped paying grazing fees, declaring he didn't acknoledge the feds existed. This was in the late 80's early 90's?
At that time, this was his only defense he put forward. All these other accusations came after the trial he lost and owed back grazing fees.
Either way, we are not gonna change each others mind, so happy trails.
He was there before the federal government ever was. They can take their duck sloughs and shove em where sun doesn't shine.
I never understood this defense yes he has said that his family has been ranching in that area since the Spanish was there before it was part of the USA, and it was taken from his family if that defense holds up then you might as well give the land back to the Native American's there were hear long before anyone else was and we took pretty much the whole continent from them. Just my two cents
WE didn't take a thing from the first immigrants to N America . The people who are actively putting livestock producers out of business are still alive though.
