big trap rant!

this is the kind of trap i like to use for cats, Bridger #5 dls. pic came from wifes cell phone dont know how it looks.

Pic looks good. Yep I'm almost certain it will catch a cat. Spotted or long tailed ha ha ha.

Don

i did have about 3 dozen or so but due to people thinking that my traps are theres i only have about a half dozen now. i will be getting more in the near future!

Oh crap!! Ouch.....that hurts right in the wallet!!


Don

Sweet !!!

i thought you might like that wolfdog!

does anyone else have pics of big traps they use?

Will run out and grab a big pan SC #4 DLS. I've posted it multiple times.

Guess it's a north idaho thing?

CDR with bobcat special pan beside a #3 Bridger dogless.

i really like that CDR.
i know that wolfdog was interested in your thoughts on it!

TTT
lets have a real talk about these big traps.
lets try and keep it clean so it does not get axed!

You guys must carry around a back hoe to dig trap beds with, more power to you, lol.

I agree,smaller trap,smaller trap bed.Less blending.

from what i have seen running bolth little and big traps the big traps are doing little to no damage.
these bigger traps are much slower then the little traps there for they are not hiting as hard.
now when using a big trap like the #5 above ^^^ if i cought the paw on the left side of the trap that is where it is going to stay unlike a little trap if chaind to the middle the foot will slide to the middle, if chaind on the side the foot will slide to the side in turn cutting. they are not fighting these big traps near as much as a little trap witch in turn causes more damage.....these are not ideas i just thought of, these are things that i seen on my line!

i not being rude at all here.
i mean if you are telling me that a little trap is better cuz you dont want to spen another minut digging a trap bed..........

I'm just the opposite, I have more of the larger traps (#3,4,5's), I love em, especially with big pans, only small ones like my 1 1/2, 2's are my coon traps, not sayin I haven't caught cats & yotes in em, just prefer bigger traps for em.

Maybe,and then maybe I shouldnt have posted as I agree with Jtwapper.I'me using a standard pan on a standard trap,making them hit the center of the trap if I can,burying their foot in it.And dry dirt for remakes come at a primium here,cause if rains all fall,it seems.Smaller is more efficient,im my opinion,bigger is certainly a greater target area,and a more expensive trap,and alot more dirt work,and after a rain, more dry dirt from my pail.

what is the advantage of a little trap over a big trap?

that is a very good point!
and i hope more people chime in on this and have a serious talk!

I'me trapping with 4 coiled 1 3/4s,and 2s,a 1 1/2 is a small trap. A #3 might be about right in a coilspring,but as big as I would go,in the dirt.

Every winter I set a few traps (#4 victor square jawed coilsprings) bagged in a baggie,under a track in the snow,but with 7' of chain and a drag.Thats a good sized trap to go under a track when an animal follows its trail ,track for track,putting its foot dead center.You can use a 1 3/4 for that little trick,if you dont get too much snow.5" isnt too much,they know to follow the trail.I think that trap has 6 1/2" spread.

i am even moving to big traps when rat and mink traping!

did you have a pic of this a year or so ago?

No,but I've mentioned it before...I showed a catch of a coyote trailing in to a bait,no tracks though.Blind set in snow,is all.Oldest set around,maybe.

This was a #3 sleepy creek I made for a raffle at our state convention.

I believe here in Michigan your limited to a #2coil, maximum when trapping on rats and mink.

Which I think the old Victor square jaw #2 is great for a rat or mink. Body gripping.

I use #2s all the time in mink/rat trapping.

TTT
anyone else want to share?

Use what you have, and can afford.

Stake for an elephant.

Just remember with a big trap it is a bit harder to remove a non-target. Other than that use as big as the regs allow and what you feel comfortable with.

I have spent a lot of years using smaller (1.5-1.75) traps for canines including coyotes, with success. When I started chasing bobcats using #3 Bridgers, I was amassed at how easy they were to stabilize. I believe a wobbly trap is the #1 cause of misses/pull outs.

why is it hard to remove a non target catch? i have had no problems.

this is a good point!

I am not convinced that the expanded pans are a plus when cat trapping. We are limited to a six inch trap here, on land, and I get enough toe caught cats already. Perhaps they are an advantage on larger traps, but not on my legal traps here.

so you are saying you have not tryed one?

He didnt say it was hard to remove a non target catch...he said "it is a bit harder".This stands to reason because a big trap is generally harder to set than a smaller trap.

thanks for clearing that up.

The one thing good about the stanard pan,as opposed to "enlarged" is that the animal steps closer to the center of the trap,sometimes burying its foot deeply,instead of barely getting caught sometimes by a few toes because it triggered the trap at the edge of an enlarged pan right near the jaw.I'me not trapping cats,though,I'me after fox and coyote.I make them step the center if I can.

this is true!

There are a great many trappers,some of whom have posted on this thread,that have much more experience than I do foot trapping canines and cats.But,I've been taught to do things the way I do,and as little experience as I have,it's working.

Some time ago,there was a great thread all about 'western cat sets that dont work" or some such thing,maybe on the strictly trapping forum,and it showcased exposed cat sets of all makes and kinds and I could see the enlarged pan shining on these sets,and those traps wouldnt have to be 'big" for this to work.

I have tried both, but like above I am limited to a 6 In trap on land. I like the smaller pan for buried traps and expanded pans for exposed cat sets. I cut out a roofing shingle and glue it to the factory pan. Im cheap and it works.

I've been on both sides of this aisle,using 1.5's and 1.75's for coyotes and 'cats,to loving my 3n's and modified no.4 longsprings at the present.I've never owned a CDR let alone used one for predators but I have used everything else it seems like.As to the question why use a small trap,if I'm in a area that holds a lot of smaller furbearers other than coyotes I don't subscribe to the "bigger is better "rule.Yes,I've caught 'coons by the hind foot and red fox with little to no damage in the larger traps but try that stunt with Grey Fox.I have yet to find a modification on the larger traps that treated the little grey humanely.I also believe style of trap has a lot to do with it,animals tend to fight a longspring trap differently than a coilspring.So while I love my big steel,I 'm not about to set them anywhere and everywhere.And also,I've experiences with 1.75's since they came out in '80's and there's no way would I 4-coil them.I've been unhappy with the 2 coil at times with paw damage(not modified) let alone 4-coiling them.So I guess I use what I feel I need to do the job cleanly and humanely,if in an area where incidentals are few and far between,or deep snow trapping I won't hesitate on the big steel.On the other hand in a more settled area there's no way am I going to go banging around with the big traps.

well said BUCK!

Keep in mind that big traps are great for cats but are in no means coyote friendly if you get my drift.

never mind I'll keep my thoughts to myself however guys have been catching a lot more cats than most in 3ns 3 newhouses with regular pans than a lot of the big is better club I personally don't care I'll use what ever trap I happen to grab in the truck it ain't the trap its the trapper

that just confuzed me.

Me too.

You're easy to confuse

When I read a quote the way you wrote it I can be easily confused,yes

Never mind fixed it for ya carry on

If strictly trapping cats bedding shouldn't be an issue. Most of mine are pretty much exposed.

does anyone have a pic of there big trap set up?

another thing on these big traps is i am not having to laminate.

…didn't confuse me as I'm fluent in "western desert dweller" ….didn't know I was bilingual did you Trav lol ?

…these boys on here just don't know when to listen sometimes lol

Play nice now gents,lol.I'me a northern dweller and I understand all of you.

oh trust me, i was listening!
this thread has open up my eyes a little more on big vs. little traps and i have learnd alot!

trapper les has helped alot and i thank him for that, this thread could of went bad fast but everyone is playing nice and thank you guys for that

Big pans big traps Is a short cut to lack of guiding knowledge.

I ran 100s of Duke 1.75s for live market fox and coyotes. But I was getting a lot of sprung traps with the trap just setting the bed and not moved. So I took some and removed the larger stock pan and went to using 1 1/2 Blake and Lamb pans. The problem didn't go away completely but It sure made noticeable difference. With the smaller pans I had a few more tracked pattern with no catch but I cut down on empty sprung traps. I figured there was always tomorrow.

Here's a little story.

Well known trapper heads to Texas to trap coyotes on some High fence deer leases. His traps of choice are MB 750s. We all know that big Is better for coyotes.
After several days he's just not catching any coyotes and It's making him look bad. So of coarse It's the traps fault. So he sends them all to a well known mod man from the Mid west. Telling him he wants him to weld on those 4X4 electrical jct box covers on to the existing pans.
Well of coarse this should improve the traps ability to catch coyotes. Never did hear how that turned out.

The art of guiding Is becoming a lost art. It's never the trappers fault It's always the traps fault.

A well known trap maker named Morse Oberto made a beaver trap that had no pan just a elongated pan shank. His theory was If the beaver had It's whole foot In the trap he would catch It every time. He figured that missing a few would be better then having a larger pan and making toe catches or just having a sprung trap.

Now I'm a firm believer when It comes to large traps and large pans when It comes to rat and mink trapping since those two critters have very small feet.

I always figured a tracked pattern with no sprung trap was better then having a sprung trap with no catch.

interesting!

Interesting thread and some interesting choices.

BEAV, i have aways been in fear of over quiding! and have have before.
i have also have had them blow threw my guiding.

heck savel us desert folka don't know nothin lol

Great post Beav.I'me using 1 3/4ths traps right now,'cause that's what I got. On several occasions last fall I saw a track right on the jaw,missed the pan,no catch.It didnt detect the trap. For me ,that's maybe a good thing. I'me not overly guiding,just a little bit...subtle. If I had #2s or a few #3s,I might set them. I've got a couple week window before freeze up here.I dont get much dirt trapping in,and havnt done a whold lot of it. 24 hour check limits the amount of country one can set up,or I'de practise a little more.And alot of sod around here, none of that dezzert .

I use as big as the state allows. Except the 550s.

I have cought coyotes in traps from a#2 dls to a 4 1/2 newhouse. I meen 1 1/2 coil to a CDR a MB 7.50. Bridger #5. dont use exposed sets and yes I have just aint for me.I like #2 TO#4 COIL OR A #3 TO #4 Longspring. I have cought alot of coyotes and cats in #5 longs and larger traps with and with out teath. The big coils up to the AK#9. Have never seen eather a cat or coyote that didnt have foot or leg damage in that size. Not haten just sayn

this is such a good thread and so many things going on. i cant seem to figure out what i am doing different cuz i am not getting any damage! this trapping season i will carrie a camra with me.

Count me in for small traps. 550's, #1.75's, etc. #2 CS's unmodified at the largest. If you are using little to no guiding you have to use big traps to compensate and I will bet you still get more misses then you like to admit. With proper guiding you get the cat to step dead center every time and a smaller trap is just fine.
Small does much less foot damage and they are easy to carry and cat trapping usually involves a lot of walking. Less is more.

like you said bigger traps means less guiding. dont you think a set is more inviting with less guiding?

i watched a video on how to catch cats in #1s why dont you guys use those?

I don't think it is possible to "over guide" cats. Heavy guiding helps keep my worthless coyotes from plugging a good cat set.

A half pad or toe catch is better than a tracked up pattern

Good point Chuck.

Does anyone use face guides?

Dont know what that is,I guess.

Here is the thing that kills me and I do not see it here nearly as often as on hunting pages.

I don't care who you are your way is not the best way to do it everytime and this applies to every aspect of life. I work in the medical field and work with people that say this is the only way to do it. When you get this attitude you are missing out. My dad taught me to hunt one day after I had just bugled in my little brothers first archery bull elk on the hill with tears in his eyes he told us how proud he was that we had takenn what we learned from him and others we had hunted with and mixed it with tatics we had learned on our own and stored things away and pull them out at the correct moments he had watched us use some different tactics that morning leading up to the shot, and it worked and hit him hard how much we payed attention but didn't get stuck in a rut.

I apply this to my trapping, I am very new to this so when I see one guy say this will not work and another say it will I experiment and figure it out for myself. I then write this new info in a journal and trying it one time proves nothing. I then pull that info. out when it is relevent to do so or when the normal just isn't working and it suprises me how many times it works and suprises even me.

My point you need to be open to change and to try different things it will make you a much better trapper, hunter, professional,or any thing else for that matter. The guys that knock something because they tried it once and it didn't work or worse yet they didn't try it at all are never going to advance themselves they may get great numbers but they won't bump those numbers without putting more hours in. Learn to improvise think outside the box.

.

im sorry i thought we were talking about big traps?

This was an informative thread concerning big trap vs little trap.You said you're very new to this.maybe you should give it a little more time.

I read this whole thread and I also posted. I see no where In the thread where any one said something wouldn't work. All I saw was a bunch of Ideas thrown out and other trappers systems and thoughts.

I guess I must have missed something.

Me to beav heck I just confuse everyone anyhow on here

Well your In good company.

I find these threads fascinating as long as they don't erupt into arguments.The common thought is small traps equal little damage and big traps mean lots of damage,well, not necessarily.I've caught coyotes in unmodified no.2 northwoods and Bridgers that had me scratching my head,then caught them in no.4 jumps that were perfect pad catches with no visible damage whatsoever.There are a lot of variables connected here,I'm not saying no.2's are no good or that I get consistant pad catches with no.4 jumps.Years ago when we had a lot of fox I used 11/2 coils exclusively and loved them.Then I heard about the 13/4 victor and northwoods and how much better they were.Staked or dragged I was not happy about the damage I got on the majority of fox.I was confused because current wisdom at the time said these were it,could'nt get any better.For that type of setting,meaning primarily fox with a occasional coyote(traps have no.2 springs)and 'coon I went back to the 11/2 coils and learned a lesson.Modified no.4 longsprings always treated my coyotes better than unmodified no.2's.

It's about chain length and how short you stake and how many swivels you use.
When I live market trapped It was more about the damage you couldn't see that was the problem. Ligament damage muscle damage and so on.

I had less damage with 1.75 Dukes with short chains and Inside laminations then I had with any other trap I used.
If I'm fur trapping I'm putting that animal down.

Beav, you ever see fox trappers that followed Oberto's theory of no pan? And guide to hit the shank or cut down pan? I have some old traps modded that way and they work just fine, if you have foxes.

There are uses for all the size traps or they never would have been made. One size never fits all and one style never fits all; unless baggy,tight and ugly are what you like.
On land I'll probably never use bigger than SVS#4 nor smaller than Vic1 1/2 in coils & #2 or #3 LS although have bigger and smaller and have used them.
I like the LS traps, but can carry more coils in one pocket given the same size; so if trapping right under the truck or with a pack mule would likely chose LS, but when hiking would use coils.
Same thought goes to bedding and covering, soil type and condition might determine what I grab.

How large is the targets foot? Coyote and cats make the biggest track in my woods and I have never seen one that would not fit in a 1 1/2 coil.

How do they get damaged? IMO, damage is in how they fight the trap after the catch is made and how the trap fights back and this might be determined more by the chain length, anchor system and available cover than by the trap, although a heavy LS might tire them quicker than a coil.

Type of set might favor big over small as could snow. That #5LS wouldn't be much fun in a step down as might be used around stock.

I let the circumstances chose the trap.

Were those Dukes offset?What was your timetable on checking?I have very little experience with anything Duke.Also,how did they hold up to coyotes?

This a common scenario for myselfand some others close around.
Bobcat traps not a hard critter to hold or fight a trap to bad if much.
6 inches on any given nite up to 3 ft.some years no cubbies but under a tree somewhere in land of quota 's on trappers and on regions , sorry had to get that in there .
Useing coils or dbls 3 or 4s am I over gunned?
The reason I ask is some very popular traps tha t say 2s are really 3 size 3s are 4 sizes with as much as 6.5 and some coils like herters 4 was like 7outside jaw spread if I am correct.
A lot of good trappers are useing dbls4s or 3bridger coilspring that is 6 1/16 inside or a 650 at 6 1/8 inside and to be fair useing a drag on almost all sets.?
Not saying I'm going to change because what I have works.
Just for the record I do not believe 750 or a 5 is need for wolves either but jao caught to many with less trap , but I would not want to limit a guy on choices either .
Tjm I do like what you had to say about let the spot pick the trap.

I once bought about a 100 traps from one of the best fox trappers In WI.
They were all #2 vic coils. What I noticed that every trap pan was cut down to about half the stock size. I asked him about this and he said son I would rather have a track on a pattern then a sprung trap with no catch. He said a fox with a bunch of dirt thrown In It's face makes for a "set" shy fox.

My Duke 1.75s Non off set held just fine with out a lot of mods. The one thing I did do was to remove the J hook from the end of the frame. I then welded on a single chain link to the bottom of the frame. I let that link stick out about a 1/2" I figured the J hook In that hole In the end of the frame was the first thing to foul up and cause the swiveling action to bind up.
I then attached the J hook directly to the chain link. Most If not all of the fouling of the swivel In this area went away.

Cats just don't fight a trap like a coyote or a fox some times you don't even have a catch circle with a cat catch. I can't remember any damage to a cats foot no matter what sized trap.

I Don't use offsets I don't see the need.

All my sets are checked daily and In freezing conditions I would either cover the traps or check twice a day at night.
I have yet to find a trap or system that was 100% perfect to eliminate foot damage on grey fox. If a grey weighed 50lbs I'd be afraid to trap them LOL. Nothing fights a trap like a grey.

this could be one of the big things that i am missing when it comes to fox cuz i have no fox here and have no idea how they act in a trap!

TTT, i forgot i made this thread and how good it was !

When I started trapping live market, a member here told me Jake traps were the way to go. A bigger trap (but no where as big as your's) I had my doubts but since I had an abundance of them I set some and caught a coyote right off. Took him out and his foot looked wonderful. Best looking foot all year. But a week later was a different story. Bought some antibiotics but despite them figured I would need to pelt that one for 3 weeks or better. Eventually with the medicine he healed up, but that was the first and LAST time I'll use anything bigger than a 2 coil #2 for coyotes I need to take alive.

I'm not an ole pro, but I have noticed that I don't get as irritated when a small trap gets stolen. I sold some used traps to a guy who said he preferred the small traps because they were easier to hide from thieves.

Ttt