I need help on what to do.It seems the word is spreading around with the local city and county municipalities that I beaver trap.Normally I did it as a favor for land owners during trapping season.I'm wanting to make this a part time business.I work for the state,so have time in the evenings and on weekends.
Is it best to charge per job or yearly contract? Anybody have a sample of a contract and bill statement. Thanks, Dale

Many times the property owner or association will request one or the other, and other times they have no idea which way they want to approach it. In the latter, it's best to provide 2 price quotes... one for a one-time trapping program and another for annual control.

You may find yourself in a difficult situation if you are being recommended by those who have used you for your fur trapping skills. In rural situations, it often becomes nearly impossible to charge enough to perform beaver removal on a commercial level. To run it as a business, you will need liability insurance (to protect the owners AND yourself) along with all the legal requirements of operating a legitimate business.

When you consider a good liability policy may run you 1200 to 2000 bucks a year, plus your mileage, time, and other expenses, you will discover (or your tax person will TELL you) that your "break-even" point is about $45 to $50 per hour if you don't have a lot of specialized equipment. Specializing in beaver work would definitely keep your costs down, but your operating costs PLUS your profit will create the necessity for "real world" pricing for such work.

I have found many "farm" communities do not view wildlife control as a "real" business, and therefore they can be impossible to "sell" trapping programs at the levels required to make any profit. Doing it as a favor is great, but don't get that mixed up with running it as a business. I still trap some properties during fur season "for fun" and recreation, and because I know so many landowners who have let me trap their properties for 30 years or more.

However, those same guys would NEVER pay a single dime for someone to trap on a commercial basis, even if coons were totally destroying their buildings or beavers were eating acres of corn and flooding fields and roadways. It's the mindset that trapping is a hobby, and there's "no way" anyone should pay for it.

I'm happy to say that wildlife control is BOOMING and yes, people WILL pay for it. It's just more likely to be in urban areas or for park districts, etc. If you can get enough work to support the cost of running a business, that's great. But if you are spending money to deal with beaver problems that aren't "yours", you will be running in circles and creating a high stress level for nothing.

Ron,

Just out of curiosity, have you ever filed a claim on your liability insurance?

I carried a bond, but in all the years I worked as a handyman/contractor I never needed it.

Because it's "your money" set aside for a rainy day, not money poured, one way, into an insurance company, isn't a bond a viable way for a small timer to go?

Like Dale, I too would be very interested in seeing sample contracts and billing sheets.

Krusty

A Bond is what "Creditors" go after

Insurance is what "Claimants" go after

Most of the Property Management groups require insurance to be on there subcontractor list

You Vehicle has become "Commercial" and requires the appropriate insurance coverage. You are driving Many miles, and Premiums are based on mileage.

Back to the subject.............I do peace Rate....Per Beaver........I work it at my own pace, be it Hot and heavy or here and there.......Depending on the Population size...time of year and Time.....There is always a Dollar in a ditch somewhere
I don't Have anyone Complaining about money being spend catching that last one.......

I do "End" up with some Pretty Smart Beavers sometime.....Soooooooooo....... Sometime we call um "Seed" and Sometime we call them "Not Smart enough"...............

Bottom line is you are not going to get rich Beaver trapping......Government is $37.50 last I heard....And...If you run "clean up" behind them or anyone else ......Ya better Love beaver Trapping

Last point a very good one. Spooky beaver have a way of just flat disappearing only to show up later or show up somewhere else. They diffently can get as sharp as an old coyote at times. Still....they are just an animal!

Dave,

I never had anyone, creditor or claimant, "go after" my bond...

Have you needed your insurance, and have you made any claims against it?

When I first got my bond, I was told it would cover damages to any property I might be working on, or any persons on the job site.
Just like insurance.

When I drove to a construction job, my vehicle wasn't part of the business (unless I used it as a billboard), why is it in nuisance work?
If I don't use my truck (as a tool) on the (trapping) job site, or to deliver a product, carry passengers, or otherwise charge for the truck being there... if it's not used for commerce, it's not a commercial vehicle
(*I KNOW THIS, from when I was a motorcycle messenger, my bike did not need to be registered as a commercial vehicle, despite the fact I was paid mileage on top of my piece work rate)

Having top of the line (full coverage) insurance could be the breaking point for many small timers and start-ups. Sometimes you have to take some risks, get only the minimum liability coverage, and fly by the seat of your pants.

Did every single one of you guys start out "fully set up, and fully covered"?
I don't think so!

LT told a story once, about starting out with a bucket of traps and a Honda car.
And I seen the truck you used to drive, and the new one ADC work bought you.

It'd be really nice, just once, to see you guys encourage someone new, instead of trying to squash their hopes and efforts.

Not everyone is looking "to get rich"...
Dale said he only wanted to do this part time, to supplement the real job he already has.

Krusty

This supplement can cost you more than you can make? We all love too trap but there are times when we need to buy gas,food,ect.If you are doing something for money it's a JOB if it's for fun it's a hobby.You have to decied what you want? If your charging to remove animals it's a job and there are pitfalls even as a hobby you can be hauled into court.
What little I've got I want to keep so insurance weather I USE it or not is paid for.
PS never had a claim in 13yrs!
bob evans cwcp

Hello and Thank you to all you answered.I fully understand the insurance importance.My main question is,every job is different.So how do you price it,by the job or per animal? Do you charge a set up fee and how long do you stay at a job site?
This will a part time job,no doing favors and etc.Strictly a part time business to make extra income.Lord only knows there is a need for beaver control work.I work for the state and we're always tearing out dams on state right-of-ways.
I also know I won't get rich,but I enjoy the outdoors and plus I like the idea of establishing a name for myself around these parts.

Dale-
Conduct a SEARCH for "pricing" on the ADC Forum. You will find more than 5 pages of responses on the subject. Use a search period of 2 years as some of the replies are over a year old.

Krusty, I'm not understanding something here. On another thread you bemoan the fact that out-of-sights are not legal in your state and that you cannot take the risk of using them. Yet in this post you say that being uninsured is an acceptable risk for a startup NWCO.
Doesn't quite make sense to me. Either way you could end up in court criminal or civil. Personally I'd rather risk criminal as usually there would be fines and loss of license on the other hand I wouldn't want to risk everything I'd worked for. Especially considering my loved ones really like those things I've worked for.
As our industry grows and in order for us to have the respect as true businessmen and women we need to get out of the part timer (no offense to those that still are) attitude of "flying by the seat of our pants". We are professionals and should by all means meet the standards of any other respectable industry.

Krusty,

I simply brought up some helpful points regarding this "part-time" venture he is considering. I truly hope he can secure enough beaver work to be able to make it happen. However, the info I brought up is for HIS protection. Nothing about "getting rich", but instead the importance of not losing everything you own in a lawsuit. The profit margin in this business is much less than lawn care, landscaping, house painting, or a number of other possible ways to earn some extra money, due to the higher expenses.

Regarding the insurance, your vehicle IS considered part of your job if you simply drive it to the work site. I do many jobs for colleges and large corporations, and they all REQUIRE proof of insurance papers with 2 million dollar coverage, which MUST include the vehicles (all) that will be used for driving to the site.

Yes, insurance can be the breaking point. However, not having it is far more "dangerous" as far as monetary concerns. Trying to make a few extra bucks and losing your home and everything you own because you do not have adequate coverage is a bit worse than a breaking point.

No way can I suggest "flying by the seat of your pants" in this society of litigation issues. I notice (especially on this site) there is a very high number of people who look at wildlife control as a hobby as though it is just fur trapping out of season. As Robert stated above, it's not a business you do for "fun" or a hobby. Many may be squeaking by with no insurance and not operating as a registered business, but it's simply a matter of time before that will catch up to them. This is not a "negative" attack... it's a serious concern.

Again, I would never "squash" the desire for anyone to do wildlife control as a business, as it can be rewarding and sure beats working for a faceless corporation. It's just real important that people understand this is not a hobby. It is a job, and requires 2 to 3 times the effort than working for someone else, besides being responsible for the management and funds.

It will typically take 3 to 5 years before you start making any money, so "getting rich" is a poor reason to get into wildlife control. If a person thinks they are "making money" simply because they get more for an ADC beaver than in fur season, they really don't have a clue. That is the point I am trying to get across.

Ron, your dead on the money with your comments. In this day and age I would be afraid to set up a lemonade stand without insurance.
While I agree that we shouldn't be "squashing" anyone who truly desires to enter this field I would caution anyone considering this way of life to please do thier homework and please try to do it right from the beginning.
To many of us have fought long and hard to be seen as professionals to have to keep apologizing for the also rans that have left a bad taste in the buying public's mouth.

Thank you.Does anybody have a sample of a contract? Dale

Ron,

This might come as a surprise to you, but most people don't join forums to search archives, they join to be part of an active community, and have (close to) real time discussions.

When I was a moderator for a HUGE climbing site (over 125,000 members worldwide), we burned threads like cordwood, so would have the same topics come up over and over.
Never ever did two play out exactly the same, and something new and sometimes quite helpful would often come out of a rehash.

David,

The reason you don't understand, is you are not reading what I wrote clearly, and then you take it out of context.

I did say "Sometimes you have to take some risks, and get the minimum liability insurance...

And I also asked if a bond might be a way for a start-up or small timer to more effectively carry coverage... offering up my own experience, having done just that.
(*I cashed in my bond, when I closed my business, and got money back... how many of you can do that with your insurance?)

In asking if anyone ever filed a claim, I was looking to satisfy my own curiosity (it's a serious question ), not to imply one should conduct any type of business without insurance.

And at no time did I mean to imply that "flying by the seat of your pants" is anything less than professional.
It just means that one be a little more self sufficient.

It's funny that you mention part timers, when the general advice in this community is to "start small, don't give up your day job, etc."
A bird in the hand, beats two in the bush... but that shouldn't exclude one from sticking his free hand in after a second one!

Me, I applaud Dale for stepping up and giving it a shot, and wish him the best.

To your second post... everyone, in just about every walk of life or profession, has to clean up after someone else from time to time.

I think it's a poor excuse, used to be less than helpful to "new competition".

We've gone over my views on the necessity of an apprenticeship program, and without it your "also rans" problem will not only continue, but will grow.

Trapperman.com was likely established in large part to combat this, the Boss himself is VERY forthcoming with this very type of information, and the rest of you should aspire to that!

Ron S.,

Your quote is a direct reply to Vinke (Dave is the one who said "you won't get rich"), and not purposefully connected to any of your posts...
Which I believe have been positive, and helpful.

My wife drives her car to her job at the grocery store, her job site... does that make it a commercial vehicle?
Not in this state.
Driving to a farm in my truck, whether I was going there to do nuisance work, or repairing the fence, doesn't make it a commercial vehicle, either.

I don't have a family, or a home, so I (personally) don't have much to lose.
But that doesn't mean I advocate being under-insured, any more than I meant to say one should go completely without it.

Part of flying by the seat of my pants, for me, has been to never bite off more than I could chew, in terms of work taken on, AND the possibilities of incurred liability.
By picking and choosing his jobs wisely, and being diligent in his methods, Dale could lessen the chances of liability tremendously, as well as the limits of coverage needed.

Don't work on million dollar homes, and your not as likely to incur a million dollars in liability.

My bet is, because you are such a large company you carry a lot more than what would be adequate for a small one.
And that large scale bat work creates more risk, to persons (employees, or not) and property, than a part time beaver trapper would.

Note, that I asked about bonds, and minimum insurance, I didn't say it would absolutely work for me or anyone else in the NWCO field.

I've been wrong before, and it won't kill me if I am wrong about limits of coverage needed, or in what form that coverage should come (insurance or bond).

I'm definitely NOT one of those people that looks at NWCO work as "fur trapping out of season", and I realize well enough how serious it is, that I haven't ventured into it in any (professional) way shape or form.
I'm still testing the water, and trying to devise the best plan of action for me, in my area, before I proceed.

You, Ron, of all people around here are the last one I would accuse of "squashing" anyone... you were the first one to answer Dale's questions and concerns, and did so with aplomb, writing a very thorough and thoughtful reply.

LA, LT, Vinke, and many more of "you guys" know WAY more about this subject than they have posted here.
Every one of "you" (that does it) has a contract, and a billing sheet you use, for beaver work.

I never saw one, before or after asking, I have to wonder if Dale did? (I see he posted while I was composing, and did not )

If it takes 3-5 years to turn a buck, one needs that time span worth of disposable assets, or (unless they win the lotto) they need a second job.
Expecting them to jump into full time NWCO, on top of a "regular" job, is just too much. Just like most of you did, they'll have to start part time.

Krusty

I do Not Have a contract for Specific Beaver Work........90% is Done by PO#..........10% handshake



When I applied for insurance they ask you if your vehicle is used in business as well as how many miles do I drive

Dave,

Do you have any paperwork that goes with this "purchase order number" (if that's what you mean by PO#), and would it be possible to see a sample?

I'm way more interested in seeing a sample contract (anyone?). (*Edit 100% of my work is done by handshake/verbal contract)

Ahh, but when you got your registration on your truck, did they ask you if it was used for business?

A commercially licensed vehicle, and a commercially insured vehicle, are not the same.

I used my truck for work, and my insurance premiums, and coverage, reflected that. But the license plate on the back of the truck did not.

Ron S.,

Obviously I have some gigantic errors in my calculations.

I cannot see how a beaver trapper could have higher expenses than any of the trades you listed (and I have done every one of them and more).
A good quality lawn mower costs considerably more than any live catch beaver trap, and could by a fleet of conibears.
I can easily stick $5000 worth of power tools in my truck, with which to do a remodel, and top it off with half that in hand tools, laser level etc.
I needed a full size V-8 truck to do stonework, and I killed them off fairly rapidly, in the process. I can trap moles from a Honda car.

I'd be thrilled to hear some of the expenses that makes beaver trapping more expensive, to do, than construction trades.

Krusty

From my first response, see above. Specializing in a single species or those animals that require little equipment WILL keep your costs down. I was refering to a full blown WCO business servicing a wide variety of calls, ranging from attic-dwelling critters to bat exclusion and clean-up work and bird netting.

Steve Albano (California) specializes in mole and gopher work. He keeps extremely busy, but sure doesn't need boom lifts, vacuum excavators, and a whole building full of materials and tools. It is often a good idea to start with a specialty service, as it allows a person to build their business at whatever speed they can manage. Steve actually started as a full service "critter" guy, and streamlined into a niche market. Often a very smart thing to do!

As you mentioned previously, it's almost impossible to start as a full-time WCO, so it makes sense to start with services that require minimal equipment. No doubt DALE could get into beaver removal work with a minimal liability policy and some traps. I was at that point about 20 years ago, and have developed into a very diversified wildlife control company. I didn't need the high insurance coverage back then, but was forced to increase my policies as the business grew. Not such a bad thing.

On the flip-side, if a person never wants to go full-time and is happy to work it as a part-time business, it is probably not a good idea to expand into so many areas as I have. Your math is okay.... no outrageous equipment expenses for beaver work!

Almost forgot the MAIN request...... I do not use standard contracts or forms for beaver, muskrat, or bat work. Each job requires a site inspection, then I type up a detailed price quote including all program details, costs, and guarantees/notes. I would be glad to send a copy of a beaver quote I did for a small local park district lake. Send me an e-mail at thebatguy@frontiernet.net (Dale & Krusty)

Ron,

Thank you sir.

I apologize for missing your statement on specializing on a single species. I was covering a lot, all at once.

Krusty

Thanks Guys,didn't want anyone to get upset over this discussion.I know i have alot to learn.But then again we all do when we start something new.I plan on keeping it small,will stick to beavers,yotes.The beavers alone will keep me busy.I have owned and operated landscape businesses before.Will be starting another one real soon.So,by no means am I afraid of working long and hard.
I have my wife's blessing and she understands.She once owned and operated a very successful painting business.
It's really nice to have a way of getting sound advice and I Thank each and everyone who helped me. Dale