On dirthole sets -
Does everybody use some kind of bait or do you mostly use lure only?

What helps you decide to use lure only or bait or both?

Bait Preferences?

Thanks for any comments
Denny Emery

I use bait at every set except the flat set.

Been using bait at every set. Think I'm going to try just lure at some sets. See what happens. Maybe less Grinners!!

What about using urine at dirtholes? A must or not?

Urine attracts almost everything, including deer. If you have a lot of deer in the area, maybe not such a good idea. I like using urine sprayed on the backing, buy I get a lot of snapped traps from deer. You either put up with it, or quit using it. I've been mixing my urine with urine spike and it seems to work extremely well, either on its own, or on a dirthole backer.

Urine spike?

Russ Carman makes it. All it is is pure liquid gland that you add to urine.2 oz. urine spike to 1 pint of urine.

I use bait and lure at all dirthole sets.

Thanks for the tip on that

when it comes to my methods of madness nothing is ever always!

i'll use lure urine and bait ... just bait ... just lure ... two lures and no bait ... two lures maybe even three and a bait ... endless combinations and it's usually dictated by location ... nothing i do is set in stone ... if you don't watch yourself you can easily fall into a rut ... just making routine "cookie cutter" sets ... change and variation is one of the keys to success

if you're really not into change ... you might just want to ease into by trying bobcat urine instead of the usual red fox ... you'll see change is a good thing

Have you ever mixed red fox and bobcat urine? I read it somewhere as a good change up.

no ... i've never mixed them intentionally ... but yes i've refreshed a set with a different urine than initially used .. so yes, when that is done both odors are present at the set

I raise a few thousand game birds every year and every year I loose a few. They get put in a zip-loc and frozen. The fox seem to like digging them out of a dirt hole. But like possum skinner, nothings definite. Sometimes I grind them and mix with a solution.

I prefer to use bait down in the hole with a little lure on the edge of hole or make 2 sets fairly close together and bait one and lure the other with urine on backing. Sometimes I just use lure. I don't use a whole lot of either. Maybe a teaspoon full of bait. and a pea size of lure. sometimes I like to put leaves or straw down in the hole to cover the bait. Sometimes just a dirthole with a peice of sheeps wool in it and a shot of urine on the backing works for me.

I saw some bait advertised that was made with horsemeat, here in Pa we really don't have a lot of dead horses lying around. That being said, would it be a good bait for this part of the country?

it doesnt matter whether the meat or smell is natural to that part of country, most yotes or cats here have ever smelled castor but they love it when its presented

Horse,woodchuck,beaver,deer,muskrat,etc. all makes pretty good bait. Like the other guys said, mix it up, find what works well for you, then you'll have your go to set and lure. Hard to beat two different sets, same location, different mix of lures and baits.

I like a prepared bait. Which is more like a lure. Meat with stuff added to it. If all your using is a straight meat bait you'll miss some stuff. The animals that aren't hungry when they come by. Lure by itself is very effective also. And yes horsemeat will work in Pa. A dead horse almost never lasts very long before its eaten. Often cows for example will remain untouched for weeks and sometimes are never eaten. The opposite is true with horses.

Whether bait and lure are both needed at a dirthole set depends upon the formulation of the lure one is using. The late E. J. Dailey brainwashed trappers for years and years on the usage of bait and lure at sets because of the nature of the lure formulas E. J. offered plus it got him a bait sale in addition to a bottle of lure. His lures were for the most part strictly urine gland lures without any food or hunger element included. The objective of a dirthole set in my opinion is to have something smelling like food down the hole to make an animal think something edible is buried there. Straight urine gland lures would not always offer that incentive to dig out the hole's contents. Lures like my Super All Call and Super Range All Call line appeal to all known calls of the animal species; hunger, gland, curiosity, passion, nature, territorial, etc. No bait is needed with a lure like that. I have trapped with and without bait along with these lure and find no advantage in adding bait down the hole. I haven't used a chunk of bait in addition to lure in at least 30 years. I simply take a gob of the lure on a stick, rub a little around the upper inside rim of a hole and throw the remainder on the stick on down to the hole's bottom. My Dad developed lures to use without bait as it saved time and stinky mess' on long lines with stinky, juicy, dripping bait juice potentially contaminating his traps and equipmet by their meer presense. A small jar of lure is clean and easy to apply, no muss no fuss. Lures like my Nature's Call line will work at hole sets too to some degree but offer no hunger element. These Nature's Call lures are better served at flat sets, post sets, blind sets, rub sets and sets without a hole or a as a lure like E. J. Dailey's to make a baited dirthole set complete with all animal callings by using it along with food bait.
This question comes up so often that I thought I would take a moment to explain my views of the subject. Don't get me wrong here, if one wants to use baits in addition to any of my lures go to it, it isn't going to harm anything. Bait in the back of a bobcat cubby, mink or coon pocket or the back of a weasel box might make for good eye appeal even if it isn't absolutely necessary.
Urine is another thing, not necessary with any of my lures as that element of territorial response etc is covered in the formulation too. However, I many times add coyote urine to coyote sets with the belief that a little added suspicion remover might make the difference in whether a wary coyote makes the final step forward. Certainly urine could only help the situation, not hinder it. As has been mentioned I shy away from urine in area with a heavy deer, rabbit or porcupine population as the added salt might draw a few more of them into the set from a longer distance.
Hope this is helpful Denny! Asa

That's interesting. I got a few different baits (prepared) to try. A few homemade from guys on here and a couple from reputable lure makers, I think Junes Widowmaker and O'gormans PRPB.

ASA, thanks for clarifying the bait - lure usage. I was unfamiliar with E.J. Dailey's method for using both. Do most lures today have all of the appeals you mentioned? or just depends on the lure maker? Some descriptions on lure bottles are somewhat sketchy as to what it appeals to pertaining to the animal.
Denny

I have no idea Denny what formulations any other lure makers use and never cared enough to even try and analyze the contents of any, even though lifting the cap on some are self evident what the dominating odor is. However, I'll guess that the most popular and best performing lures are incorporating more than just urine gland. I know O'Gorman by his own admittance has tried to pattern his formulas and lure consistencies after my Dad's, O'Gorman says he has idolized my Dad since he was a kid. For example, O'Gorman has collected every book, booklet, pamphlet, set, magazine article etc that my Dad ever wrote including my Dad's booklet "25 Professional Lure Formulas". He has also purchased the Herb Lenon Classic Video and wrote me a personal testimonial to it value. Asa

You hit the nail on the head there. I have found this out first hand. You spend a little extra time fixing a nice dirt hole, post or cubbyhole just to have an old flop eared nanny come along and screw it up for you.
Good words ASA.

I was waiting for Asa to comment...and glad he did. I would have to assume that there are lure makers that hate all the information that Mr, Lenon gives out. We (the readers of such posts) really benefit, however. Thank you Asa for all of the information you are free to give in precise detail. It opens new doors, as well as confirms suspicions, for many of us.

I use a can of tuna and dribble the juice as a lure

also if the critter robs your bait a few times just put the empty can back and itll come in again because it knows that can means food.
Like a dog when you pick up its food bowl

What does Brian Roberts Cheese bait appeal to?

coyotes, fox and coons.

Hmmmmm, I am going to have to get some to try along with the best lure out of Wyoming.

Yep you are 100% correct.

Asa,
On the E.J. Dailey lure/bait combo, was that the plan to get the trapper hooked to sell more stuff or wasn't the proper lure formulation available?

I'm sure it wasn't really a ploy to sell two products, its just that E. J. like all other lure makers of his era probably never thought about adding multiple ingredients to his lure formulas to broaden thier appeal. I think trapper history buffs like Craig O'Gorman for example who have studied trapping's history will all I agree that my Dad was the first at everything in his time such as developing paste type lures and multi-calling lures. Asa

WOW,,,,,,,,,,,,talk about a learning curve ! Definately archive material !!!! Thanks Asa for your time. You lay it out like it should be !